dunks said: It's Apple's prerogative to configure their prices how they see fit, but we shouldn't infer that decisions consumers make when presented with a limited set of options is a genuine reflection of their underlying desires.
Well said. Apple's product line isn't full enough to make such speculations. The SE is a perfect example. The battle in these forums has long-waged on how much people want that size phone, but Apple's product lineup pretty much forces anyone wanting the form-factor to ALSO buy the low-cost model. There is no way to know from that situation whether people would also buy an SE form-factor phone at the high-end.
Same for laptops. Apple makes all the new pro laptops with touch-bar, keyboard, etc and then they sell and the conclusion is that people must like them. What's the alternative, to leave the platform?
Does that mean you would rather see Apple lose users than cater to them?
Fanboys actually would. Since (to them) Apple can do no wrong, people arguing against Apple here make their brains hurt.
But, seriously, it would be one thing if the point had been something unreasonable or crazy, but it was a well-made point. The reality is, it might well be a 'goodbye' in the sense that I don't think Apple will look back on the TouchID/FaceID thing... but then a more appropriate response would have been to point that out, maybe along with saying that unfortunately, you might have to look elsewhere.
avon b7 said: That's the impression I'm getting. The whole competition thing seems to be different there. I see lots of people complaining about carriers/ISPs etc but then following up with they have no other options. It's pretty alien to me in that sense as I suppose I'm spoilt for choice.
It is even worse here in Canada. I'm not sure what the collusion / anti-completion laws are here, but the telcos/ISPs would be in violation if there were such a thing. Especially with phone carriers, they often have the exact same plans, pricing, and even seasonal bonuses/discounts.
There is a bit more competition in wireless in the USA, but it's still pretty bad compared to elsewhere from what I see. For home Internet, the ISP situation in both countries is quite horrible.
nunzy said: Why why does the mainstream media hate Apple so much? I think that they are jealous.
Apple hatred is a combination of factors ...
Huh? The MSM loves Apple. I wonder if nunzy was around in the 90s? Apple couldn't get a positive media article to save their life. But, yea, a lot of the Apple hatred came from non-thinking people with that message drilled in (often IT types) and those who thought Apple was just a fashion product for people to show their money and 'taste.' (Which is why I'm disgusted now that Apple is actually pushing the fashion/taste card.)
When the SE was released,it had the then current processor in it. It was equivalent internally to Apple's top of the line handset. It sold well, but didn't outsell the flagship. So, no, Apple selling lower priced handsets with high end internals wouldn't improve their sales.
Current processor, but wasn't there a newer in the highest end models, or at least quite shortly after? But, even if so, it was nerf'd in a number of other ways compared to the regular lineup. What we're talking about, would be... for example... something like the iPhone X or iPhone 8 in the SE case (currently) as a proper point of comparison. If you offer the SE form-factor, but reduce features and capabilities, then you are artificially pushing people up the model line, even if wouldn't be their first choice. (Which, I think is the intention... Apple internally decided big-screens = higher end phones, little ones = budget phones. There need not be a correlation there, it's artificially imposed.)
Price isn't my prime factor when buying. To me it is quite simple. "How does the device fit my use case?" To me that means my iPhone 7 may well have to be replaced by an 8 and that's it for me with Apple. I wear protective headgear a lot. This is either a motorcycle crash helmet or one similar to a tree surgeon would wear. TouchId (remember that?) allows me to open the phone with a fingerprint. Using FaceID means that I'd have to remove the headgear. This takes time and if a lot lower down the 'Ease of use' list when compared to the older phones. Removing a glove is an order of magnitude easier than removing the helmet. Yes I could enter the passcode but that defeats the whole object of TouchID and FaceID. Sorry Apple, you have lost the plot here as well in many other areas especially wrt the Mac line-up.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
FWIW ATT already did an iPhone X BOGO months ago, as has Sprint. TMo did a buy one and get $700 off another. TMo also had equivalent deals for some of the latest LG's and Samsungs. Deals on even new flagships aren't at all uncommon, including Apple's top of the line.
Were those Apple subsidized discounts and BOGO's?
Almost certainly not.; just carrier discounts to pick up a few switchers.
Betcha that Android OS device makers are quite likely to provide carrier incentives to drive share acquisition.
Neither of us know do we? You're guessing and I'd be doing the same.
Look at the prices of the S9 and the iPhone X on contract in the UK and yet the iPhone X still outsells the S9.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
Perhaps you should read it again. It was crystal clear. It's not about being a contrarian. It's about having an opinion and standing by it.
Just as I didn't get a G5 when I said I wouldn't. That didn't mean I sold all my gear and bought into something else. I bought more machines, but here's the kicker, ones that I wanted to buy and am still happy with. Do you know why that is? Because I was able to easily install an SSD, more memory and a new battery, effectively giving the MBP new life for less than 300€ (none of which went to Apple). Oh, the irony.
Compare that to now. If you want a 15" MBP, it is not only non-upgradeable, you have to jump through the Apple hoop, kit it all out at the moment of purchase at Apple's non-competitive prices (on a machine whose base price is already high), accept a approx $300 Touchbar even if you don't want it and accept a keyboard that can literally fail at any moment (that is covered for a maximum of four years) and for which Apple hasn't even bothered to tell its users what the problem is (in spite of EVERY SINGLE APPLE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD EVER MADE being covered) and if you run into problems past those four years it could cost you over 700€ to fix (the replacement having the exact same -unknown- issues) and if I dare point it out I'm a whiner, troll, hater and now contrarian and you basically say 'no one is forcing you to buy' (as if that was even relevant!) and I can just move off the Apple platform.
No! How about I (and others) call it for what it is on a discussion forum that exists for this very reason. You don't like it. Apple probably doesn't like it but I didn't create this situation.
There, you just required me to hammer home the point, again!
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
Ah, I almost forgot, the P20 Pro. What was it that you assured us all before release? That the camera system wouldn't be enough to make it stand out from the pack?
If you want to see how that played out, please Google it. I don't have to rave about it. It isn't necessary. Your Google results will show you that. The consensus is that it is the phone to beat.
You seem to be unable to take in that a non-Apple phone could be setting the smartphone pace. And I'm not limiting that claim to the camera. I'm talking about key areas of the phone.
That, however, is something you will have to resolve on your own.
We need competition and Apple will have to raise its game to do that. Do you accept that?
Do you accept that a non-Apple product could possibly be a class leader?
Do you accept that an Apple user doesn't need to be tied to the Apple ecosystem? That he or she could even like competing products more?
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
Perhaps you should read it again. It was crystal clear. It's not about being a contrarian. It's about having an opinion and standing by it.
Just as I didn't get a G5 when I said I wouldn't. That didn't mean I sold all my gear and bought into something else. I bought more machines, but here's the kicker, ones that I wanted to buy and am still happy with. Do you know why that is? Because I was able to easily install an SSD, more memory and a new battery, effectively giving the MBP new life for less than 300€ (none of which went to Apple). Oh, the irony.
Compare that to now. If you want a 15" MBP, it is not only non-upgradeable, you have to jump through the Apple hoop, kit it all out at the moment of purchase at Apple's non-competitive prices (on a machine whose base price is already high), accept a approx $300 Touchbar even if you don't want it and accept a keyboard that can literally fail at any moment (that is covered for a maximum of four years) and for which Apple hasn't even bothered to tell its users what the problem is (in spite of EVERY SINGLE APPLE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD EVER MADE being covered) and if you run into problems past those four years it could cost you over 700€ to fix (the replacement having the exact same -unknown- issues) and if I dare point it out I'm a whiner, troll, hater and now contrarian and you basically say 'no one is forcing you to buy' (as if that was even relevant!) and I can just move off the Apple platform.
No! How about I (and others) call it for what it is on a discussion forum that exists for this very reason. You don't like it. Apple probably doesn't like it but I didn't create this situation.
There, you just required me to hammer home the point, again!
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
Ah, I almost forgot, the P20 Pro. What was it that you assured us all before release? That the camera system wouldn't be enough to make it stand out from the pack?
If you want to see how that played out, please Google it. I don't have to rave about it. It isn't necessary. Your Google results will show you that. The consensus is that it is the phone to beat.
You seem to be unable to take in that a non-Apple phone could be setting the smartphone pace. And I'm not limiting that claim to the camera. I'm talking about key areas of the phone.
That, however, is something you will have to resolve on your own.
We need competition and Apple will have to raise its game to do that. Do you accept that?
Do you accept that a non-Apple product could possibly be a class leader?
Do you accept that an Apple user doesn't need to be tied to the Apple ecosystem? That he or she could even like competing products more?
You rest my case; clever on your part.
I won't comment on the rest, it's the weekend after all, other than I will agree with you on the P20 Pro, if and only if you actually purchase one. Otherwise, you prove my point that wanting one and actually buying one are not the same. My point stands that it is too expensive for its market, and it still has limitations even against the Samsung S9, which isn't selling all that well either. More so, the P20 lite is noted for being the sales leader of the three models; betting it's because it is the least expensive, and that Huawei expects to sell a total for the year of the three models to the tune of 20 m. Good, but that's like a third to a quarter of iPhone X yearly sales, btw, and this fall, three new models of the X come out. Yeah, three months from now.
How is an expensive model going to sell if the only feature claim is its three camera imaging? I see discounts in the P20's future.
Please note that I will use the same logic that you use for sales numbers of the iPhone X, because estimates, and four quarters of sales, and all that. So next March, come back and tell me what a great success the P20 Pro was, and show me the numbers.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
Perhaps you should read it again. It was crystal clear. It's not about being a contrarian. It's about having an opinion and standing by it.
Just as I didn't get a G5 when I said I wouldn't. That didn't mean I sold all my gear and bought into something else. I bought more machines, but here's the kicker, ones that I wanted to buy and am still happy with. Do you know why that is? Because I was able to easily install an SSD, more memory and a new battery, effectively giving the MBP new life for less than 300€ (none of which went to Apple). Oh, the irony.
Compare that to now. If you want a 15" MBP, it is not only non-upgradeable, you have to jump through the Apple hoop, kit it all out at the moment of purchase at Apple's non-competitive prices (on a machine whose base price is already high), accept a approx $300 Touchbar even if you don't want it and accept a keyboard that can literally fail at any moment (that is covered for a maximum of four years) and for which Apple hasn't even bothered to tell its users what the problem is (in spite of EVERY SINGLE APPLE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD EVER MADE being covered) and if you run into problems past those four years it could cost you over 700€ to fix (the replacement having the exact same -unknown- issues) and if I dare point it out I'm a whiner, troll, hater and now contrarian and you basically say 'no one is forcing you to buy' (as if that was even relevant!) and I can just move off the Apple platform.
No! How about I (and others) call it for what it is on a discussion forum that exists for this very reason. You don't like it. Apple probably doesn't like it but I didn't create this situation.
There, you just required me to hammer home the point, again!
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
Ah, I almost forgot, the P20 Pro. What was it that you assured us all before release? That the camera system wouldn't be enough to make it stand out from the pack?
If you want to see how that played out, please Google it. I don't have to rave about it. It isn't necessary. Your Google results will show you that. The consensus is that it is the phone to beat.
You seem to be unable to take in that a non-Apple phone could be setting the smartphone pace. And I'm not limiting that claim to the camera. I'm talking about key areas of the phone.
That, however, is something you will have to resolve on your own.
We need competition and Apple will have to raise its game to do that. Do you accept that?
Do you accept that a non-Apple product could possibly be a class leader?
Do you accept that an Apple user doesn't need to be tied to the Apple ecosystem? That he or she could even like competing products more?
You rest my case; clever on your part.
I won't comment on the rest, it's the weekend after all, other than I will agree with you on the P20 Pro, if and only if you actually purchase one. Otherwise, you prove my point that wanting one and actually buying one are not the same. My point stands that it is too expensive for its market, and it still has limitations even against the Samsung S9, which isn't selling all that well either. More so, the P20 lite is noted for being the sales leader of the three models; betting it's because it is the least expensive, and that Huawei expects to sell a total for the year of the three models to the tune of 20 m. Good, but that's like a third to a quarter of iPhone X yearly sales, btw, and this fall, three new models of the X come out. Yeah, three months from now.
How is an expensive model going to sell if the only feature claim is its three camera imaging? I see discounts in the P20's future.
Please note that I will use the same logic that you use for sales numbers of the iPhone X, because estimates, and four quarters of sales, and all that. So next March, come back and tell me what a great success the P20 Pro was, and show me the numbers.
I see deep discounts on Android OS premium devices in the near future...
Too funny.
Huawei launches a flagship every quarter. Therefore reliance on the P20 Pro to push sales is less important but sales are up, right across the P20 range. Logically the P20 lite will take the lion's share of unit sales on price. The P20/P20 Pro are currently at around 6,000,000 which (unlike the iPhone X) can be referenced to previous generations (massive YoY growth so far). Far more logical to measure performance on a yearly basis though (from release to release). The Honor 10 is breaking records too. Last year's Mate 10 series also broke records.
The Mate 20 will launch later this year. The Kirin 980 plus second generation NPU (and possibly an in-house GPU) will launch at the end of next month. The Kirin 1020 is a mystery. They forecast 200,000,000+ for this year. No idea if that will happen but if it does, it would represent a 50,000,000 increase on last year.
All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US.
That is some stiff competition not only for Samsung but also for Apple who will have to beat the optical zoom, hybrid zoom night mode, AIIS, battery, modem, exterior design etc of the P20 Pro for starters. In reality its real flagship competitor will be the Mate 20.
That can only be good for everyone.
And steep discounts? Too funny?
No. That's the whole point of competition. We should celebrate it. And take into account that those flagship phones will probably not dip below $500 so it's not like they're giving them away.
Now, if you would rather not see iPhones discounted (or four year old Minis either) simply because of ASP and raking in billions, that would be funny - but not in the normal way.
As a consumer, I'll take the discount thank you very much, which, before you say it, doesn't constitute a 'race to the bottom'. ;-)
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
Perhaps you should read it again. It was crystal clear. It's not about being a contrarian. It's about having an opinion and standing by it.
Just as I didn't get a G5 when I said I wouldn't. That didn't mean I sold all my gear and bought into something else. I bought more machines, but here's the kicker, ones that I wanted to buy and am still happy with. Do you know why that is? Because I was able to easily install an SSD, more memory and a new battery, effectively giving the MBP new life for less than 300€ (none of which went to Apple). Oh, the irony.
Compare that to now. If you want a 15" MBP, it is not only non-upgradeable, you have to jump through the Apple hoop, kit it all out at the moment of purchase at Apple's non-competitive prices (on a machine whose base price is already high), accept a approx $300 Touchbar even if you don't want it and accept a keyboard that can literally fail at any moment (that is covered for a maximum of four years) and for which Apple hasn't even bothered to tell its users what the problem is (in spite of EVERY SINGLE APPLE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD EVER MADE being covered) and if you run into problems past those four years it could cost you over 700€ to fix (the replacement having the exact same -unknown- issues) and if I dare point it out I'm a whiner, troll, hater and now contrarian and you basically say 'no one is forcing you to buy' (as if that was even relevant!) and I can just move off the Apple platform.
No! How about I (and others) call it for what it is on a discussion forum that exists for this very reason. You don't like it. Apple probably doesn't like it but I didn't create this situation.
There, you just required me to hammer home the point, again!
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
Ah, I almost forgot, the P20 Pro. What was it that you assured us all before release? That the camera system wouldn't be enough to make it stand out from the pack?
If you want to see how that played out, please Google it. I don't have to rave about it. It isn't necessary. Your Google results will show you that. The consensus is that it is the phone to beat.
You seem to be unable to take in that a non-Apple phone could be setting the smartphone pace. And I'm not limiting that claim to the camera. I'm talking about key areas of the phone.
That, however, is something you will have to resolve on your own.
We need competition and Apple will have to raise its game to do that. Do you accept that?
Do you accept that a non-Apple product could possibly be a class leader?
Do you accept that an Apple user doesn't need to be tied to the Apple ecosystem? That he or she could even like competing products more?
You rest my case; clever on your part.
I won't comment on the rest, it's the weekend after all, other than I will agree with you on the P20 Pro, if and only if you actually purchase one. Otherwise, you prove my point that wanting one and actually buying one are not the same. My point stands that it is too expensive for its market, and it still has limitations even against the Samsung S9, which isn't selling all that well either. More so, the P20 lite is noted for being the sales leader of the three models; betting it's because it is the least expensive, and that Huawei expects to sell a total for the year of the three models to the tune of 20 m. Good, but that's like a third to a quarter of iPhone X yearly sales, btw, and this fall, three new models of the X come out. Yeah, three months from now.
How is an expensive model going to sell if the only feature claim is its three camera imaging? I see discounts in the P20's future.
Please note that I will use the same logic that you use for sales numbers of the iPhone X, because estimates, and four quarters of sales, and all that. So next March, come back and tell me what a great success the P20 Pro was, and show me the numbers.
I see deep discounts on Android OS premium devices in the near future...
Too funny.
Huawei launches a flagship every quarter. Therefore reliance on the P20 Pro to push sales is less important but sales are up, right across the P20 range. Logically the P20 lite will take the lion's share of unit sales on price. The P20/P20 Pro are currently at around 6,000,000 which (unlike the iPhone X) can be referenced to previous generations (massive YoY growth do far). Far more logical to measure performance on a yearly basis though (from release to release). The Honor 10 is breaking records too. Last year's Mate 10 series also broke records.
The Mate 20 will launch later this year. The Kirin 980 plus second generation NPU (and possibly an in-house GPU) will launch at the end of next month. The Kirin 1020 is a mystery. They forecast 200,000,000+ for this year. No idea if that will happen but if it does, it would represent a 50,000,000 increase on last year.
All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US.
That is some stiff competition not only for Samsung but also for Apple who will have to beat the optical zoom, hybrid zoom night mode, AIIS, battery, modem, exterior design etc of the P20 Pro for starters. In reality its real flagship competitor will be the Mate 20.
That can only be good for everyone.
"All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US."
Yeah, I have tears welling up in my eye for the Communist State.
Did you know that it took China Mobile, 30% owned by the Chinese Government, 6 years to approve the iPhone for sale? Did you also know that anyone either in the Communist Party, or the Government, is instructed not to buy iPhones?
Yeah, major sad for Huawei that they crossed the West's intelligence communities by, you know, getting caught sending data back to Chinese servers, even if that was some years ago.
As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product, and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom, and all that with those increased acquisition costs for those new customers. Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
While I do think that Jonny Ive has been overrated as far as Apple's post Jobs success (his designs are good not great) Apple did tried to elevate him as the genius to succeed Jobs. I think a lot of Apple's problem with Macintosh probably are more the result of the work and decisions of Alan Dye and Richard Horwath who were more in charge of the day to day design work while Jonny was busy building Apple Park and putting up Christmas tree displays.
I still believe that the greatest strength of the iPhone is core of the iOS operating system which was created by Forstal. Google has always been better at Services where it is search, the Google Assistant, or Maps. Sometime I think that Google should have announced that they were leaving the iPhone. I think many users would have swithed to android to keep their email and maps.
If Touchbar had been a success we would have seen a desktop keyboard with it. I would have loved a Laptop with TouchID but not TouchBar. Sam e with the wired or bluetooth keyboard. I guess in a few years they will come out with FaceID on the computers if not this year.
Hopefully they have fixed the keyboards with the next generation. This is a big fail on Apples part. Seems like Apple should have offered 3 Years coverage beyond what they user purchased under Apple Care. If you bought 2 or 3 years of Apple care the Keyboards should be covered for 5 or 6 years - considering it is fundamentally bad product.
Cooks biggest problem is that he has under invested in important services like Siri and Maps at they don't make money with but still are important to the ecosystem The recent press stories (Panzarinno) about Apples new revision to MAPs have gotten Apple fans excited but have ignored three important points: 1. Apple Maps was born when Google created their own phone/OS and Jobs wanted to go ThermoNuclear over 7 years ago when Cook should have put maps into the high gear after firing Forstal. 2. Apple choose to pass on buying HERE maps. If they were serious about mapping they would have spent the money to get an already established company. 3. Two years ago Apple Announced with great fanfare their Mapping Center in India. This was supposed to be the thing that would allow to catch up to Google. Apples still in a Distant 2nd place and I don't expect this to catch them up to Apple.
Cook's second failure is with respect to Siri. Siri's short comings are well known. I will only say that Apple is lucky that Amazon's Alexa took off before Google's Assistant with the home market and third party equipment like Sonos.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
Perhaps you should read it again. It was crystal clear. It's not about being a contrarian. It's about having an opinion and standing by it.
Just as I didn't get a G5 when I said I wouldn't. That didn't mean I sold all my gear and bought into something else. I bought more machines, but here's the kicker, ones that I wanted to buy and am still happy with. Do you know why that is? Because I was able to easily install an SSD, more memory and a new battery, effectively giving the MBP new life for less than 300€ (none of which went to Apple). Oh, the irony.
Compare that to now. If you want a 15" MBP, it is not only non-upgradeable, you have to jump through the Apple hoop, kit it all out at the moment of purchase at Apple's non-competitive prices (on a machine whose base price is already high), accept a approx $300 Touchbar even if you don't want it and accept a keyboard that can literally fail at any moment (that is covered for a maximum of four years) and for which Apple hasn't even bothered to tell its users what the problem is (in spite of EVERY SINGLE APPLE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD EVER MADE being covered) and if you run into problems past those four years it could cost you over 700€ to fix (the replacement having the exact same -unknown- issues) and if I dare point it out I'm a whiner, troll, hater and now contrarian and you basically say 'no one is forcing you to buy' (as if that was even relevant!) and I can just move off the Apple platform.
No! How about I (and others) call it for what it is on a discussion forum that exists for this very reason. You don't like it. Apple probably doesn't like it but I didn't create this situation.
There, you just required me to hammer home the point, again!
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
Ah, I almost forgot, the P20 Pro. What was it that you assured us all before release? That the camera system wouldn't be enough to make it stand out from the pack?
If you want to see how that played out, please Google it. I don't have to rave about it. It isn't necessary. Your Google results will show you that. The consensus is that it is the phone to beat.
You seem to be unable to take in that a non-Apple phone could be setting the smartphone pace. And I'm not limiting that claim to the camera. I'm talking about key areas of the phone.
That, however, is something you will have to resolve on your own.
We need competition and Apple will have to raise its game to do that. Do you accept that?
Do you accept that a non-Apple product could possibly be a class leader?
Do you accept that an Apple user doesn't need to be tied to the Apple ecosystem? That he or she could even like competing products more?
You rest my case; clever on your part.
I won't comment on the rest, it's the weekend after all, other than I will agree with you on the P20 Pro, if and only if you actually purchase one. Otherwise, you prove my point that wanting one and actually buying one are not the same. My point stands that it is too expensive for its market, and it still has limitations even against the Samsung S9, which isn't selling all that well either. More so, the P20 lite is noted for being the sales leader of the three models; betting it's because it is the least expensive, and that Huawei expects to sell a total for the year of the three models to the tune of 20 m. Good, but that's like a third to a quarter of iPhone X yearly sales, btw, and this fall, three new models of the X come out. Yeah, three months from now.
How is an expensive model going to sell if the only feature claim is its three camera imaging? I see discounts in the P20's future.
Please note that I will use the same logic that you use for sales numbers of the iPhone X, because estimates, and four quarters of sales, and all that. So next March, come back and tell me what a great success the P20 Pro was, and show me the numbers.
I see deep discounts on Android OS premium devices in the near future...
Too funny.
Huawei launches a flagship every quarter. Therefore reliance on the P20 Pro to push sales is less important but sales are up, right across the P20 range. Logically the P20 lite will take the lion's share of unit sales on price. The P20/P20 Pro are currently at around 6,000,000 which (unlike the iPhone X) can be referenced to previous generations (massive YoY growth do far). Far more logical to measure performance on a yearly basis though (from release to release). The Honor 10 is breaking records too. Last year's Mate 10 series also broke records.
The Mate 20 will launch later this year. The Kirin 980 plus second generation NPU (and possibly an in-house GPU) will launch at the end of next month. The Kirin 1020 is a mystery. They forecast 200,000,000+ for this year. No idea if that will happen but if it does, it would represent a 50,000,000 increase on last year.
All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US.
That is some stiff competition not only for Samsung but also for Apple who will have to beat the optical zoom, hybrid zoom night mode, AIIS, battery, modem, exterior design etc of the P20 Pro for starters. In reality its real flagship competitor will be the Mate 20.
That can only be good for everyone.
"All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US."
Yeah, I have tears welling up in my eye for the Communist State.
Did you know that it took China Mobile, 30% owned by the Chinese Government, 6 years to approve the iPhone for sale? Did you also know that anyone either in the Communist Party, or the Government, is instructed not to buy iPhones?
Yeah, major sad for Huawei that they crossed the West's intelligence communities by, you know, getting caught sending data back to Chinese servers, even if that was some years ago.
As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product, and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom, and all that with those increased acquisition costs for those new customers. Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark.
But, yeah, marketshare!
You persist.
Wouldn't it be better to open a new thread? I said there was a lot of nonsense spouted here on Huawei and you have dumped more into this thread.
Do you know how long it took to get full approval of entry of Spanish pata negra ham into the US? A very, very long time.
It is a regulatory issue.
The same as in China with the iPhone and you focus on the case of China Mobile, forgetting that Apple was officially present in China years earlier and, in case you have forgotten, Huawei is not the Chinese government.
On the other hand, Huawei's problems with the US government have nothing to do with regulatory issues but with protectionism hiding behind a 'national security' smokescreen.
As you are digging into the history books I will enlighten you on something that is so ridiculous you would think it could not possibly be true. In the initial national security concerns, the US dug something dodgy out on Huawei. In true keystone cops style, the reports went to the top brass but no one realised that the Huawei in question had NOTHING to do with the Huawei that makes the P20 Pro. It was a company that just happened to have the word Huawei in its name. Now, that is utterly pathetic.
Huawei has consistently denied any wrong doing and says its connections with the Chinese government are those required by law. Just as they are for all companies everywhere.
Has even a smidgen of evidence ever been presented against them? Nope. Probably because there is none.
On the other hand we have plenty of evidence of failed US intelligence, the NSA interfering with private companies and trying to compromise networking infrastructure worldwide (including Huawei gear). I hope the irony of that is not lost on you.
"As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product,"
Perhaps you weren't paying attention when Huawei said it hopes to ship 50,000,000 more phones than last year? I'd say they're shifting product like never before!
"and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom"
No. There is no race to the bottom. Huawei is growing spectacularly and has consistently moved its focus to the high end but without taking its eyes off the rest of the line.
"Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark"
That's called 'competition' but not everyone will have the same. Huawei invests heavily in R&D with centres all over the world. Not everyone can do that. You yourself, and in this very thread, pointed to a rumour on a Samsung triple camera. Was it lost on you that it was rumoured for next year? A full year behind. Apple is also rumoured to have a triple camera in the works but possibly for next year too.
As for short engineering cycles. Would you rather they slowed down? The smartphone industry is known for its relentless advances. When competition is so intense, that is what happens. Consumers usually pick up the fruits.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
Perhaps you should read it again. It was crystal clear. It's not about being a contrarian. It's about having an opinion and standing by it.
Just as I didn't get a G5 when I said I wouldn't. That didn't mean I sold all my gear and bought into something else. I bought more machines, but here's the kicker, ones that I wanted to buy and am still happy with. Do you know why that is? Because I was able to easily install an SSD, more memory and a new battery, effectively giving the MBP new life for less than 300€ (none of which went to Apple). Oh, the irony.
Compare that to now. If you want a 15" MBP, it is not only non-upgradeable, you have to jump through the Apple hoop, kit it all out at the moment of purchase at Apple's non-competitive prices (on a machine whose base price is already high), accept a approx $300 Touchbar even if you don't want it and accept a keyboard that can literally fail at any moment (that is covered for a maximum of four years) and for which Apple hasn't even bothered to tell its users what the problem is (in spite of EVERY SINGLE APPLE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD EVER MADE being covered) and if you run into problems past those four years it could cost you over 700€ to fix (the replacement having the exact same -unknown- issues) and if I dare point it out I'm a whiner, troll, hater and now contrarian and you basically say 'no one is forcing you to buy' (as if that was even relevant!) and I can just move off the Apple platform.
No! How about I (and others) call it for what it is on a discussion forum that exists for this very reason. You don't like it. Apple probably doesn't like it but I didn't create this situation.
There, you just required me to hammer home the point, again!
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
Ah, I almost forgot, the P20 Pro. What was it that you assured us all before release? That the camera system wouldn't be enough to make it stand out from the pack?
If you want to see how that played out, please Google it. I don't have to rave about it. It isn't necessary. Your Google results will show you that. The consensus is that it is the phone to beat.
You seem to be unable to take in that a non-Apple phone could be setting the smartphone pace. And I'm not limiting that claim to the camera. I'm talking about key areas of the phone.
That, however, is something you will have to resolve on your own.
We need competition and Apple will have to raise its game to do that. Do you accept that?
Do you accept that a non-Apple product could possibly be a class leader?
Do you accept that an Apple user doesn't need to be tied to the Apple ecosystem? That he or she could even like competing products more?
You rest my case; clever on your part.
I won't comment on the rest, it's the weekend after all, other than I will agree with you on the P20 Pro, if and only if you actually purchase one. Otherwise, you prove my point that wanting one and actually buying one are not the same. My point stands that it is too expensive for its market, and it still has limitations even against the Samsung S9, which isn't selling all that well either. More so, the P20 lite is noted for being the sales leader of the three models; betting it's because it is the least expensive, and that Huawei expects to sell a total for the year of the three models to the tune of 20 m. Good, but that's like a third to a quarter of iPhone X yearly sales, btw, and this fall, three new models of the X come out. Yeah, three months from now.
How is an expensive model going to sell if the only feature claim is its three camera imaging? I see discounts in the P20's future.
Please note that I will use the same logic that you use for sales numbers of the iPhone X, because estimates, and four quarters of sales, and all that. So next March, come back and tell me what a great success the P20 Pro was, and show me the numbers.
I see deep discounts on Android OS premium devices in the near future...
Too funny.
Huawei launches a flagship every quarter. Therefore reliance on the P20 Pro to push sales is less important but sales are up, right across the P20 range. Logically the P20 lite will take the lion's share of unit sales on price. The P20/P20 Pro are currently at around 6,000,000 which (unlike the iPhone X) can be referenced to previous generations (massive YoY growth do far). Far more logical to measure performance on a yearly basis though (from release to release). The Honor 10 is breaking records too. Last year's Mate 10 series also broke records.
The Mate 20 will launch later this year. The Kirin 980 plus second generation NPU (and possibly an in-house GPU) will launch at the end of next month. The Kirin 1020 is a mystery. They forecast 200,000,000+ for this year. No idea if that will happen but if it does, it would represent a 50,000,000 increase on last year.
All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US.
That is some stiff competition not only for Samsung but also for Apple who will have to beat the optical zoom, hybrid zoom night mode, AIIS, battery, modem, exterior design etc of the P20 Pro for starters. In reality its real flagship competitor will be the Mate 20.
That can only be good for everyone.
"All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US."
Yeah, I have tears welling up in my eye for the Communist State.
Did you know that it took China Mobile, 30% owned by the Chinese Government, 6 years to approve the iPhone for sale? Did you also know that anyone either in the Communist Party, or the Government, is instructed not to buy iPhones?
Yeah, major sad for Huawei that they crossed the West's intelligence communities by, you know, getting caught sending data back to Chinese servers, even if that was some years ago.
As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product, and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom, and all that with those increased acquisition costs for those new customers. Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark.
But, yeah, marketshare!
You persist.
Wouldn't it be better to open a new thread? I said there was a lot of nonsense spouted here on Huawei and you have dumped more into this thread.
Do you know how long it took to get full approval of entry of Spanish pata negra ham into the US? A very, very long time.
It is a regulatory issue.
The same as in China with the iPhone and you focus on the case of China Mobile, forgetting that Apple was officially present in China years earlier and, in case you have forgotten, Huawei is not the Chinese government.
On the other hand, Huawei's problems with the US government have nothing to do with regulatory issues but with protectionism hiding behind a 'national security' smokescreen.
As you are digging into the history books I will enlighten you on something that is so ridiculous you would think it could not possibly be true. In the initial national security concerns, the US dug something dodgy out on Huawei. In true keystone cops style, the reports went to the top brass but no one realised that the Huawei in question had NOTHING to do with the Huawei that makes the P20 Pro. It was a company that just happened to have the word Huawei in its name. Now, that is utterly pathetic.
Huawei has consistently denied any wrong doing and says its connections with the Chinese government are those required by law. Just as they are for all companies everywhere.
Has even a smidgen of evidence ever been presented against them? Nope. Probably because there is none.
On the other hand we have plenty of evidence of failed US intelligence, the NSA interfering with private companies and trying to compromise networking infrastructure worldwide (including Huawei gear). I hope the irony of that is not lost on you.
"As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product,"
Perhaps you weren't paying attention when Huawei said it hopes to ship 50,000,000 more phones than last year? I'd say they're shifting product like never before!
"and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom"
No. There is no race to the bottom. Huawei is growing spectacularly and has consistently moved its focus to the high end but without taking its eyes off the rest of the line.
"Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark"
That's called 'competition' but not everyone will have the same. Huawei invests heavily in R&D with centres all over the world. Not everyone can do that. You yourself, and in this very thread, pointed to a rumour on a Samsung triple camera. Was it lost on you that it was rumoured for next year? A full year behind. Apple is also rumoured to have a triple camera in the works but possibly for next year too.
As for short engineering cycles. Would you rather they slowed down? The smartphone industry is known for its relentless advances. When competition is so intense, that is what happens. Consumers usually pick up the fruits.
There's a shit ton more of these, and none of them, has any appearance of protectionism, which is the bullshit case you are attempting to make, without any evidence at all.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
Perhaps you should read it again. It was crystal clear. It's not about being a contrarian. It's about having an opinion and standing by it.
Just as I didn't get a G5 when I said I wouldn't. That didn't mean I sold all my gear and bought into something else. I bought more machines, but here's the kicker, ones that I wanted to buy and am still happy with. Do you know why that is? Because I was able to easily install an SSD, more memory and a new battery, effectively giving the MBP new life for less than 300€ (none of which went to Apple). Oh, the irony.
Compare that to now. If you want a 15" MBP, it is not only non-upgradeable, you have to jump through the Apple hoop, kit it all out at the moment of purchase at Apple's non-competitive prices (on a machine whose base price is already high), accept a approx $300 Touchbar even if you don't want it and accept a keyboard that can literally fail at any moment (that is covered for a maximum of four years) and for which Apple hasn't even bothered to tell its users what the problem is (in spite of EVERY SINGLE APPLE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD EVER MADE being covered) and if you run into problems past those four years it could cost you over 700€ to fix (the replacement having the exact same -unknown- issues) and if I dare point it out I'm a whiner, troll, hater and now contrarian and you basically say 'no one is forcing you to buy' (as if that was even relevant!) and I can just move off the Apple platform.
No! How about I (and others) call it for what it is on a discussion forum that exists for this very reason. You don't like it. Apple probably doesn't like it but I didn't create this situation.
There, you just required me to hammer home the point, again!
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
Ah, I almost forgot, the P20 Pro. What was it that you assured us all before release? That the camera system wouldn't be enough to make it stand out from the pack?
If you want to see how that played out, please Google it. I don't have to rave about it. It isn't necessary. Your Google results will show you that. The consensus is that it is the phone to beat.
You seem to be unable to take in that a non-Apple phone could be setting the smartphone pace. And I'm not limiting that claim to the camera. I'm talking about key areas of the phone.
That, however, is something you will have to resolve on your own.
We need competition and Apple will have to raise its game to do that. Do you accept that?
Do you accept that a non-Apple product could possibly be a class leader?
Do you accept that an Apple user doesn't need to be tied to the Apple ecosystem? That he or she could even like competing products more?
You rest my case; clever on your part.
I won't comment on the rest, it's the weekend after all, other than I will agree with you on the P20 Pro, if and only if you actually purchase one. Otherwise, you prove my point that wanting one and actually buying one are not the same. My point stands that it is too expensive for its market, and it still has limitations even against the Samsung S9, which isn't selling all that well either. More so, the P20 lite is noted for being the sales leader of the three models; betting it's because it is the least expensive, and that Huawei expects to sell a total for the year of the three models to the tune of 20 m. Good, but that's like a third to a quarter of iPhone X yearly sales, btw, and this fall, three new models of the X come out. Yeah, three months from now.
How is an expensive model going to sell if the only feature claim is its three camera imaging? I see discounts in the P20's future.
Please note that I will use the same logic that you use for sales numbers of the iPhone X, because estimates, and four quarters of sales, and all that. So next March, come back and tell me what a great success the P20 Pro was, and show me the numbers.
I see deep discounts on Android OS premium devices in the near future...
Too funny.
Huawei launches a flagship every quarter. Therefore reliance on the P20 Pro to push sales is less important but sales are up, right across the P20 range. Logically the P20 lite will take the lion's share of unit sales on price. The P20/P20 Pro are currently at around 6,000,000 which (unlike the iPhone X) can be referenced to previous generations (massive YoY growth do far). Far more logical to measure performance on a yearly basis though (from release to release). The Honor 10 is breaking records too. Last year's Mate 10 series also broke records.
The Mate 20 will launch later this year. The Kirin 980 plus second generation NPU (and possibly an in-house GPU) will launch at the end of next month. The Kirin 1020 is a mystery. They forecast 200,000,000+ for this year. No idea if that will happen but if it does, it would represent a 50,000,000 increase on last year.
All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US.
That is some stiff competition not only for Samsung but also for Apple who will have to beat the optical zoom, hybrid zoom night mode, AIIS, battery, modem, exterior design etc of the P20 Pro for starters. In reality its real flagship competitor will be the Mate 20.
That can only be good for everyone.
"All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US."
Yeah, I have tears welling up in my eye for the Communist State.
Did you know that it took China Mobile, 30% owned by the Chinese Government, 6 years to approve the iPhone for sale? Did you also know that anyone either in the Communist Party, or the Government, is instructed not to buy iPhones?
Yeah, major sad for Huawei that they crossed the West's intelligence communities by, you know, getting caught sending data back to Chinese servers, even if that was some years ago.
As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product, and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom, and all that with those increased acquisition costs for those new customers. Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark.
But, yeah, marketshare!
You persist.
Wouldn't it be better to open a new thread? I said there was a lot of nonsense spouted here on Huawei and you have dumped more into this thread.
Do you know how long it took to get full approval of entry of Spanish pata negra ham into the US? A very, very long time.
It is a regulatory issue.
The same as in China with the iPhone and you focus on the case of China Mobile, forgetting that Apple was officially present in China years earlier and, in case you have forgotten, Huawei is not the Chinese government.
On the other hand, Huawei's problems with the US government have nothing to do with regulatory issues but with protectionism hiding behind a 'national security' smokescreen.
As you are digging into the history books I will enlighten you on something that is so ridiculous you would think it could not possibly be true. In the initial national security concerns, the US dug something dodgy out on Huawei. In true keystone cops style, the reports went to the top brass but no one realised that the Huawei in question had NOTHING to do with the Huawei that makes the P20 Pro. It was a company that just happened to have the word Huawei in its name. Now, that is utterly pathetic.
Huawei has consistently denied any wrong doing and says its connections with the Chinese government are those required by law. Just as they are for all companies everywhere.
Has even a smidgen of evidence ever been presented against them? Nope. Probably because there is none.
On the other hand we have plenty of evidence of failed US intelligence, the NSA interfering with private companies and trying to compromise networking infrastructure worldwide (including Huawei gear). I hope the irony of that is not lost on you.
"As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product,"
Perhaps you weren't paying attention when Huawei said it hopes to ship 50,000,000 more phones than last year? I'd say they're shifting product like never before!
"and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom"
No. There is no race to the bottom. Huawei is growing spectacularly and has consistently moved its focus to the high end but without taking its eyes off the rest of the line.
"Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark"
That's called 'competition' but not everyone will have the same. Huawei invests heavily in R&D with centres all over the world. Not everyone can do that. You yourself, and in this very thread, pointed to a rumour on a Samsung triple camera. Was it lost on you that it was rumoured for next year? A full year behind. Apple is also rumoured to have a triple camera in the works but possibly for next year too.
As for short engineering cycles. Would you rather they slowed down? The smartphone industry is known for its relentless advances. When competition is so intense, that is what happens. Consumers usually pick up the fruits.
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
Perhaps you should read it again. It was crystal clear. It's not about being a contrarian. It's about having an opinion and standing by it.
Just as I didn't get a G5 when I said I wouldn't. That didn't mean I sold all my gear and bought into something else. I bought more machines, but here's the kicker, ones that I wanted to buy and am still happy with. Do you know why that is? Because I was able to easily install an SSD, more memory and a new battery, effectively giving the MBP new life for less than 300€ (none of which went to Apple). Oh, the irony.
Compare that to now. If you want a 15" MBP, it is not only non-upgradeable, you have to jump through the Apple hoop, kit it all out at the moment of purchase at Apple's non-competitive prices (on a machine whose base price is already high), accept a approx $300 Touchbar even if you don't want it and accept a keyboard that can literally fail at any moment (that is covered for a maximum of four years) and for which Apple hasn't even bothered to tell its users what the problem is (in spite of EVERY SINGLE APPLE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD EVER MADE being covered) and if you run into problems past those four years it could cost you over 700€ to fix (the replacement having the exact same -unknown- issues) and if I dare point it out I'm a whiner, troll, hater and now contrarian and you basically say 'no one is forcing you to buy' (as if that was even relevant!) and I can just move off the Apple platform.
No! How about I (and others) call it for what it is on a discussion forum that exists for this very reason. You don't like it. Apple probably doesn't like it but I didn't create this situation.
There, you just required me to hammer home the point, again!
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
Ah, I almost forgot, the P20 Pro. What was it that you assured us all before release? That the camera system wouldn't be enough to make it stand out from the pack?
If you want to see how that played out, please Google it. I don't have to rave about it. It isn't necessary. Your Google results will show you that. The consensus is that it is the phone to beat.
You seem to be unable to take in that a non-Apple phone could be setting the smartphone pace. And I'm not limiting that claim to the camera. I'm talking about key areas of the phone.
That, however, is something you will have to resolve on your own.
We need competition and Apple will have to raise its game to do that. Do you accept that?
Do you accept that a non-Apple product could possibly be a class leader?
Do you accept that an Apple user doesn't need to be tied to the Apple ecosystem? That he or she could even like competing products more?
You rest my case; clever on your part.
I won't comment on the rest, it's the weekend after all, other than I will agree with you on the P20 Pro, if and only if you actually purchase one. Otherwise, you prove my point that wanting one and actually buying one are not the same. My point stands that it is too expensive for its market, and it still has limitations even against the Samsung S9, which isn't selling all that well either. More so, the P20 lite is noted for being the sales leader of the three models; betting it's because it is the least expensive, and that Huawei expects to sell a total for the year of the three models to the tune of 20 m. Good, but that's like a third to a quarter of iPhone X yearly sales, btw, and this fall, three new models of the X come out. Yeah, three months from now.
How is an expensive model going to sell if the only feature claim is its three camera imaging? I see discounts in the P20's future.
Please note that I will use the same logic that you use for sales numbers of the iPhone X, because estimates, and four quarters of sales, and all that. So next March, come back and tell me what a great success the P20 Pro was, and show me the numbers.
I see deep discounts on Android OS premium devices in the near future...
Too funny.
Huawei launches a flagship every quarter. Therefore reliance on the P20 Pro to push sales is less important but sales are up, right across the P20 range. Logically the P20 lite will take the lion's share of unit sales on price. The P20/P20 Pro are currently at around 6,000,000 which (unlike the iPhone X) can be referenced to previous generations (massive YoY growth do far). Far more logical to measure performance on a yearly basis though (from release to release). The Honor 10 is breaking records too. Last year's Mate 10 series also broke records.
The Mate 20 will launch later this year. The Kirin 980 plus second generation NPU (and possibly an in-house GPU) will launch at the end of next month. The Kirin 1020 is a mystery. They forecast 200,000,000+ for this year. No idea if that will happen but if it does, it would represent a 50,000,000 increase on last year.
All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US.
That is some stiff competition not only for Samsung but also for Apple who will have to beat the optical zoom, hybrid zoom night mode, AIIS, battery, modem, exterior design etc of the P20 Pro for starters. In reality its real flagship competitor will be the Mate 20.
That can only be good for everyone.
"All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US."
Yeah, I have tears welling up in my eye for the Communist State.
Did you know that it took China Mobile, 30% owned by the Chinese Government, 6 years to approve the iPhone for sale? Did you also know that anyone either in the Communist Party, or the Government, is instructed not to buy iPhones?
Yeah, major sad for Huawei that they crossed the West's intelligence communities by, you know, getting caught sending data back to Chinese servers, even if that was some years ago.
As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product, and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom, and all that with those increased acquisition costs for those new customers. Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark.
But, yeah, marketshare!
You persist.
Wouldn't it be better to open a new thread? I said there was a lot of nonsense spouted here on Huawei and you have dumped more into this thread.
Do you know how long it took to get full approval of entry of Spanish pata negra ham into the US? A very, very long time.
It is a regulatory issue.
The same as in China with the iPhone and you focus on the case of China Mobile, forgetting that Apple was officially present in China years earlier and, in case you have forgotten, Huawei is not the Chinese government.
On the other hand, Huawei's problems with the US government have nothing to do with regulatory issues but with protectionism hiding behind a 'national security' smokescreen.
As you are digging into the history books I will enlighten you on something that is so ridiculous you would think it could not possibly be true. In the initial national security concerns, the US dug something dodgy out on Huawei. In true keystone cops style, the reports went to the top brass but no one realised that the Huawei in question had NOTHING to do with the Huawei that makes the P20 Pro. It was a company that just happened to have the word Huawei in its name. Now, that is utterly pathetic.
Huawei has consistently denied any wrong doing and says its connections with the Chinese government are those required by law. Just as they are for all companies everywhere.
Has even a smidgen of evidence ever been presented against them? Nope. Probably because there is none.
On the other hand we have plenty of evidence of failed US intelligence, the NSA interfering with private companies and trying to compromise networking infrastructure worldwide (including Huawei gear). I hope the irony of that is not lost on you.
"As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product,"
Perhaps you weren't paying attention when Huawei said it hopes to ship 50,000,000 more phones than last year? I'd say they're shifting product like never before!
"and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom"
No. There is no race to the bottom. Huawei is growing spectacularly and has consistently moved its focus to the high end but without taking its eyes off the rest of the line.
"Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark"
That's called 'competition' but not everyone will have the same. Huawei invests heavily in R&D with centres all over the world. Not everyone can do that. You yourself, and in this very thread, pointed to a rumour on a Samsung triple camera. Was it lost on you that it was rumoured for next year? A full year behind. Apple is also rumoured to have a triple camera in the works but possibly for next year too.
As for short engineering cycles. Would you rather they slowed down? The smartphone industry is known for its relentless advances. When competition is so intense, that is what happens. Consumers usually pick up the fruits.
There's a shit ton more of these, and none of them, has any appearance of protectionism, which is the bullshit case you are attempting to make, without any evidence at all.
You see. There is nothing to grab at. Nothing real. Just fear in a few old people's heads who happen to be in high government positions.
Like this:
"US Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa has declared, ‘I can’t pronounce their name, but it starts with an H and ends with a W-E-I. Whenever they’re involved, it scares the devil out of me.’ Yeah, he's 85 and must have a clear understanding of 2018 digital communications security issues!
Yes, there are a 'shit ton more' articles you could link to but none of them actually make a decent case for banning Huawei infrastructure. It's just the same tired old story. Repeated over and over.
Evidence? What evidence do you require? It is those who accuse that need to provide the evidence and they haven't.
One of your links even goes so far as to claim that smaller operators don't have the resources to check for back doors. Can you see anything weird in that? If that were the case they wouldn't have the resources to check for backdoors in ANY equipment but it is still sold in the US. It's clear that back doors aren't at issue here but rather who they belong to! But that is moot. Do you know what HCSEC is? Perhaps the US should look around and see how things are done elsewhere.
Your obsession with ASP continues. Yes Huawei managed to invest more in R&D and make better phones than Apple, pump out four flagships a year and obtain spectacular YoY growth, all with a lower ASP. Your point is?
It is protectionism from January this year where it is widely accepted that political pressure was used on private companies for them to cancel deals with Huawei.
The story is wrong about Huawei exceeding Apple in units sales; Apple sold 216m in 2017.
Perhaps what is wrong is your understanding of the story:
It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue. It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.
Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.
Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed.
It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits.
But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy.
His comment didn't need to go any deeper.
The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).
Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.
Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.
People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.
People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!
So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!
Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.
Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.
You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.
Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.
You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei.
"Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"
That's just fantasy.
Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%,
Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.
There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.
You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black.
This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.
He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.
I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.
It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.
On the contrary, I normally tone down my responses and let the links do the talking. Then, if there is something truly worth highlighting and is bulletproof I might include it to drive the point home, you know like the Cat 18 modem, dual SIM, fast charging, better battery, VoLTE, x3 optical zoom, night mode etc because in those cases opinion doesn't come into it.
Hyperbole is this article.
Maybe hyperbole, but accurate, and historically, you do only compare hardware features, leaving out the ecosystem, and that is your fail. You also have been in denial about the success of the X, and iPhone in general, consistently downplaying sales estimates, while at the same time providing your own tainted data to bolster your brand Huawei.
I still cannot fathom why you are here pushing your agenda, especially when your links are generally weak support for your arguments.
Not at all. If you rewind a little, my voice is a voice of reason in the hyperbole. Not the only one here but...
As for X, I said from the very start that it couldn't be judged from one or two quarters, especially from a company that is geared solely to one blowout quarter. I said I was open minded on both the notch and FaceID but that FaceID needed to be tested in the wild. I made a case for a bigger spread of prices and products (something that Apple implemented). The problem is that sales still look like they will be flat again this year. That's due to competition, saturation, commoditisation and Apple's sloth-like dynamics. For phone hardware, Apple has one basket and all its eggs get dumped in it.
iPhone X will see sales drop in each successive quarter from release. This is normal for many reasons but there is no point punching into the air on the back of one or two quarters. It must be judged in January/February to get a more balanced perspective.
Two years ago I said Huawei would be a major competitor to Apple. It has been exactly that. That continues to this day and Apple is no doubt chuffed that it doesn't have them on its home soil (although Huawei has recently moved on to the front foot as result of US actions to keep it out of the US) because Huawei has had a major impact on some of Apple's 'safe' markets and now there is going to be a big push in the UK.
My links are far from weak but that is for readers to decide. I even go to the trouble of citing the same sources included in some articles/posts when possible to provide a greater counterpoint (;-).
But the question remains? Why? Why are you here, putting in so much effort to constantly compare Apple to your favored brand? Do you not have a job, a retirement hobby? Can you honestly tell us you have no professional affiliation with Huawei?
I have mentioned this a few times.
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
So, you just made the case for yourself, turgidly, I might add; you don't really want to be in Apple's ecosystem anymore. Hallelujah!
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
Perhaps you should read it again. It was crystal clear. It's not about being a contrarian. It's about having an opinion and standing by it.
Just as I didn't get a G5 when I said I wouldn't. That didn't mean I sold all my gear and bought into something else. I bought more machines, but here's the kicker, ones that I wanted to buy and am still happy with. Do you know why that is? Because I was able to easily install an SSD, more memory and a new battery, effectively giving the MBP new life for less than 300€ (none of which went to Apple). Oh, the irony.
Compare that to now. If you want a 15" MBP, it is not only non-upgradeable, you have to jump through the Apple hoop, kit it all out at the moment of purchase at Apple's non-competitive prices (on a machine whose base price is already high), accept a approx $300 Touchbar even if you don't want it and accept a keyboard that can literally fail at any moment (that is covered for a maximum of four years) and for which Apple hasn't even bothered to tell its users what the problem is (in spite of EVERY SINGLE APPLE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD EVER MADE being covered) and if you run into problems past those four years it could cost you over 700€ to fix (the replacement having the exact same -unknown- issues) and if I dare point it out I'm a whiner, troll, hater and now contrarian and you basically say 'no one is forcing you to buy' (as if that was even relevant!) and I can just move off the Apple platform.
No! How about I (and others) call it for what it is on a discussion forum that exists for this very reason. You don't like it. Apple probably doesn't like it but I didn't create this situation.
There, you just required me to hammer home the point, again!
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
Ah, I almost forgot, the P20 Pro. What was it that you assured us all before release? That the camera system wouldn't be enough to make it stand out from the pack?
If you want to see how that played out, please Google it. I don't have to rave about it. It isn't necessary. Your Google results will show you that. The consensus is that it is the phone to beat.
You seem to be unable to take in that a non-Apple phone could be setting the smartphone pace. And I'm not limiting that claim to the camera. I'm talking about key areas of the phone.
That, however, is something you will have to resolve on your own.
We need competition and Apple will have to raise its game to do that. Do you accept that?
Do you accept that a non-Apple product could possibly be a class leader?
Do you accept that an Apple user doesn't need to be tied to the Apple ecosystem? That he or she could even like competing products more?
You rest my case; clever on your part.
I won't comment on the rest, it's the weekend after all, other than I will agree with you on the P20 Pro, if and only if you actually purchase one. Otherwise, you prove my point that wanting one and actually buying one are not the same. My point stands that it is too expensive for its market, and it still has limitations even against the Samsung S9, which isn't selling all that well either. More so, the P20 lite is noted for being the sales leader of the three models; betting it's because it is the least expensive, and that Huawei expects to sell a total for the year of the three models to the tune of 20 m. Good, but that's like a third to a quarter of iPhone X yearly sales, btw, and this fall, three new models of the X come out. Yeah, three months from now.
How is an expensive model going to sell if the only feature claim is its three camera imaging? I see discounts in the P20's future.
Please note that I will use the same logic that you use for sales numbers of the iPhone X, because estimates, and four quarters of sales, and all that. So next March, come back and tell me what a great success the P20 Pro was, and show me the numbers.
I see deep discounts on Android OS premium devices in the near future...
Too funny.
Huawei launches a flagship every quarter. Therefore reliance on the P20 Pro to push sales is less important but sales are up, right across the P20 range. Logically the P20 lite will take the lion's share of unit sales on price. The P20/P20 Pro are currently at around 6,000,000 which (unlike the iPhone X) can be referenced to previous generations (massive YoY growth do far). Far more logical to measure performance on a yearly basis though (from release to release). The Honor 10 is breaking records too. Last year's Mate 10 series also broke records.
The Mate 20 will launch later this year. The Kirin 980 plus second generation NPU (and possibly an in-house GPU) will launch at the end of next month. The Kirin 1020 is a mystery. They forecast 200,000,000+ for this year. No idea if that will happen but if it does, it would represent a 50,000,000 increase on last year.
All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US.
That is some stiff competition not only for Samsung but also for Apple who will have to beat the optical zoom, hybrid zoom night mode, AIIS, battery, modem, exterior design etc of the P20 Pro for starters. In reality its real flagship competitor will be the Mate 20.
That can only be good for everyone.
"All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US."
Yeah, I have tears welling up in my eye for the Communist State.
Did you know that it took China Mobile, 30% owned by the Chinese Government, 6 years to approve the iPhone for sale? Did you also know that anyone either in the Communist Party, or the Government, is instructed not to buy iPhones?
Yeah, major sad for Huawei that they crossed the West's intelligence communities by, you know, getting caught sending data back to Chinese servers, even if that was some years ago.
As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product, and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom, and all that with those increased acquisition costs for those new customers. Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark.
But, yeah, marketshare!
You persist.
Wouldn't it be better to open a new thread? I said there was a lot of nonsense spouted here on Huawei and you have dumped more into this thread.
Do you know how long it took to get full approval of entry of Spanish pata negra ham into the US? A very, very long time.
It is a regulatory issue.
The same as in China with the iPhone and you focus on the case of China Mobile, forgetting that Apple was officially present in China years earlier and, in case you have forgotten, Huawei is not the Chinese government.
On the other hand, Huawei's problems with the US government have nothing to do with regulatory issues but with protectionism hiding behind a 'national security' smokescreen.
As you are digging into the history books I will enlighten you on something that is so ridiculous you would think it could not possibly be true. In the initial national security concerns, the US dug something dodgy out on Huawei. In true keystone cops style, the reports went to the top brass but no one realised that the Huawei in question had NOTHING to do with the Huawei that makes the P20 Pro. It was a company that just happened to have the word Huawei in its name. Now, that is utterly pathetic.
Huawei has consistently denied any wrong doing and says its connections with the Chinese government are those required by law. Just as they are for all companies everywhere.
Has even a smidgen of evidence ever been presented against them? Nope. Probably because there is none.
On the other hand we have plenty of evidence of failed US intelligence, the NSA interfering with private companies and trying to compromise networking infrastructure worldwide (including Huawei gear). I hope the irony of that is not lost on you.
"As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product,"
Perhaps you weren't paying attention when Huawei said it hopes to ship 50,000,000 more phones than last year? I'd say they're shifting product like never before!
"and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom"
No. There is no race to the bottom. Huawei is growing spectacularly and has consistently moved its focus to the high end but without taking its eyes off the rest of the line.
"Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark"
That's called 'competition' but not everyone will have the same. Huawei invests heavily in R&D with centres all over the world. Not everyone can do that. You yourself, and in this very thread, pointed to a rumour on a Samsung triple camera. Was it lost on you that it was rumoured for next year? A full year behind. Apple is also rumoured to have a triple camera in the works but possibly for next year too.
As for short engineering cycles. Would you rather they slowed down? The smartphone industry is known for its relentless advances. When competition is so intense, that is what happens. Consumers usually pick up the fruits.
It is protectionism from January this year where it is widely accepted that political pressure was used on private companies for them to cancel deals with Huawei.
The story is wrong about Huawei exceeding Apple in units sales; Apple sold 216m in 2017.
Perhaps what is wrong is your understanding of the story:
Comments
Same for laptops. Apple makes all the new pro laptops with touch-bar, keyboard, etc and then they sell and the conclusion is that people must like them. What's the alternative, to leave the platform?
Fanboys actually would. Since (to them) Apple can do no wrong, people arguing against Apple here make their brains hurt.
But, seriously, it would be one thing if the point had been something unreasonable or crazy, but it was a well-made point. The reality is, it might well be a 'goodbye' in the sense that I don't think Apple will look back on the TouchID/FaceID thing... but then a more appropriate response would have been to point that out, maybe along with saying that unfortunately, you might have to look elsewhere.
There is a bit more competition in wireless in the USA, but it's still pretty bad compared to elsewhere from what I see. For home Internet, the ISP situation in both countries is quite horrible.
Huh? The MSM loves Apple. I wonder if nunzy was around in the 90s? Apple couldn't get a positive media article to save their life.
But, yea, a lot of the Apple hatred came from non-thinking people with that message drilled in (often IT types) and those who thought Apple was just a fashion product for people to show their money and 'taste.' (Which is why I'm disgusted now that Apple is actually pushing the fashion/taste card.)
Current processor, but wasn't there a newer in the highest end models, or at least quite shortly after? But, even if so, it was nerf'd in a number of other ways compared to the regular lineup. What we're talking about, would be... for example... something like the iPhone X or iPhone 8 in the SE case (currently) as a proper point of comparison. If you offer the SE form-factor, but reduce features and capabilities, then you are artificially pushing people up the model line, even if wouldn't be their first choice. (Which, I think is the intention... Apple internally decided big-screens = higher end phones, little ones = budget phones. There need not be a correlation there, it's artificially imposed.)
I have more Apple equipment at home than from any other tech company. I've had iPhones and still have one at home. I have a MBA, MBP, iMacs, eMacs, desktops and iPads.
I was forced off the iPhone as I couldn't afford the asking price of a new phone, I thought the product was slipping against the competition and hated the upsell that is now part of Apple's corporate culture.
On switching, far from hating Android (EMUI), I liked it a lot and became dependent on certain elements that I now can't live without. None of what iOS users claim to be the hell of Android actually materialised. None of it. The opposite was actually true. I was freed from the chains of iTunes, email attachments actually downloaded to my phone, simple things (or things that should be simple) actually were simple, like attaching documents to mails. I had all the options to do things my way and not Apple's. Last September Apple actually changed tack on iPhone offerings and finally gave me a selection of phones that I could actually buy and that weren't that old. The problem now was two fold: features and iOS. There was little to nothing really attractive or compelling in the new phones and Android handsets were in front on many fronts (especially Huawei). iOS was just too limiting for me.
The direction that Apple took with the MacBook Pro was also critical. Once again pricing was deliberately over the top and upsell taken to a whole new level with the need to buy everything you would need - over the lifetime of the machine - at the checkout and from Apple (and at Apple's margins). The wholesale move to USB-C was entirely unnecessary and it was put together in such a way that common repairs could not be carried out without affecting non-related hardware. It was a compromised machine on many levels and the keyboard is perhaps the last straw for some. Once again the competition has pulled ahead and once again it is Huawei pushing hard on all fronts including pricing. The MateBook X Pro is almost perpetually sold out.
I feel some people, Mac users, are tiring and you are seeing some openly questioning Apple's direction. Yes, long time users and right here on AI. Those people are automatically labelled as trolls, whiners, idiots etc by some here. In their heads, criticising Apple shouldn't be done on an Apple centric site and in public, to boot. They forget that you are an Apple user or have been for decades, your opinion is just as valid as theirs and they will defend Apple at any cost. Blindly. To the point that when their arguments fail and even Apple backtracks, they continue defending. 'So what!' they say. To the point of wanting Apple to charge you even more so they can be the biggest company on the planet even though the product hasn't been updated and is technologically behind competitors.
But no one has a TouchBar they say, forgetting completely the fact that the Touchbar has not been a noteworthy addition to the line and if you want a 15" new MBP you're going to get it whether you wanted to spend the rumoured $300 it costs or not. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's another expensive repair.
Huawei is relevant to me because I own Huawei phones and they are raising the bar. As an ex-iPhone user I am well placed to comment their developments. Sadly, many here prefer to talk about Huawei without knowing much or anything at all about current realities. People who simply regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. I will always point out a far more realistic viewpoint whenever that kind of nonsense is served up even if the result is being stupidly labelled a 'hater'. I can't speak for Samsung because I have no familiarly with their phones. I prefer to speak about what I know.
No company is perfect. Not Apple, Samsung or Huawei but in recent years I have definitely seen signs of the 'bad Apple' from decades ago. Arrogance and complacency wrapped up in questionable design decisions. From the Mac Pro, the missing Mini, the new but not updated MBP, battery problems, keyboard problems and a whole host of software issues.
I myself, as a user, just said no to all that. I will not put money on something I find so wrong. It's my call.
Apple wasn't always like this. I have a MBA and MBP that were great machines at purchase time and were attractively priced.
However, there is nothing to indicate that Apple cannot or will not return to a different way of doing things.
Those that say Apple will never do this or that with so much confidence have largely been wrong more than they have been right. That goes from inviting the press over to admit failings on the Mac Pro, to 'legacy' ports that still aren't legacy, pre-announcing hardware, reducing pricing, having a larger iPhone spread (and screen lol) and many other examples.
So there is hope at least and Tim Cook won't be around forever and neither will Jony Ive who I suspect is the person behind some of the latest design decision goofs. I take heart in the fact that there have been rumours about a split within Apple on some projects and notably the MBP.
I have no affiliation with Huawei nor do I put a lot of effort into comparing Apple with my 'favourite brand'. I am perfectly placed to point out where Apple is behind when people spurt out all the nonsense on Android handsets and specifically Huawei (a lot of it is just plain wrong by the way). AI is perpetually comparing Apple with Samsung. Google is a regular in articles here. Even OnePlus and Xiaomi. Huawei is simply another brand but it is possibly the one that is currently pushing the envelope more than any other in the smartphone space. I happen to know a bit about them - because I've been using their phones for a while now.
Hope that answers your question, ;-)
Sell off all of your Apple gear, most of which is old anyway, then buy that Matebook X Pro, even if you have to wait, and then spend the rest of your money on that P20 Pro that you rave about.
But this isn't really about actually voting with your wallet, which is what people do when they aren't just talking about it. This is about your being the constant contrarian on AI.
Can't stop you from that and your excessive negativity on all things Apple, so groundhog day.
Who knew...
Just as I didn't get a G5 when I said I wouldn't. That didn't mean I sold all my gear and bought into something else. I bought more machines, but here's the kicker, ones that I wanted to buy and am still happy with. Do you know why that is? Because I was able to easily install an SSD, more memory and a new battery, effectively giving the MBP new life for less than 300€ (none of which went to Apple). Oh, the irony.
Compare that to now. If you want a 15" MBP, it is not only non-upgradeable, you have to jump through the Apple hoop, kit it all out at the moment of purchase at Apple's non-competitive prices (on a machine whose base price is already high), accept a approx $300 Touchbar even if you don't want it and accept a keyboard that can literally fail at any moment (that is covered for a maximum of four years) and for which Apple hasn't even bothered to tell its users what the problem is (in spite of EVERY SINGLE APPLE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD EVER MADE being covered) and if you run into problems past those four years it could cost you over 700€ to fix (the replacement having the exact same -unknown- issues) and if I dare point it out I'm a whiner, troll, hater and now contrarian and you basically say 'no one is forcing you to buy' (as if that was even relevant!) and I can just move off the Apple platform.
No! How about I (and others) call it for what it is on a discussion forum that exists for this very reason. You don't like it. Apple probably doesn't like it but I didn't create this situation.
There, you just required me to hammer home the point, again!
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
Ah, I almost forgot, the P20 Pro. What was it that you assured us all before release? That the camera system wouldn't be enough to make it stand out from the pack?
If you want to see how that played out, please Google it. I don't have to rave about it. It isn't necessary. Your Google results will show you that. The consensus is that it is the phone to beat.
You seem to be unable to take in that a non-Apple phone could be setting the smartphone pace. And I'm not limiting that claim to the camera. I'm talking about key areas of the phone.
That, however, is something you will have to resolve on your own.
We need competition and Apple will have to raise its game to do that. Do you accept that?
Do you accept that a non-Apple product could possibly be a class leader?
Do you accept that an Apple user doesn't need to be tied to the Apple ecosystem? That he or she could even like competing products more?
I won't comment on the rest, it's the weekend after all, other than I will agree with you on the P20 Pro, if and only if you actually purchase one. Otherwise, you prove my point that wanting one and actually buying one are not the same. My point stands that it is too expensive for its market, and it still has limitations even against the Samsung S9, which isn't selling all that well either. More so, the P20 lite is noted for being the sales leader of the three models; betting it's because it is the least expensive, and that Huawei expects to sell a total for the year of the three models to the tune of 20 m. Good, but that's like a third to a quarter of iPhone X yearly sales, btw, and this fall, three new models of the X come out. Yeah, three months from now.
How is an expensive model going to sell if the only feature claim is its three camera imaging? I see discounts in the P20's future.
Please note that I will use the same logic that you use for sales numbers of the iPhone X, because estimates, and four quarters of sales, and all that. So next March, come back and tell me what a great success the P20 Pro was, and show me the numbers.
Oh gosh, I almost forgot;
Samsung S10 is going to get three lenses:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/1961098939/rumor-samsung-galaxy-s10-triple-cam-to-offer-super-wide-angle-and-3x-tele
I see deep discounts on Android OS premium devices in the near future...
Too funny.
The Mate 20 will launch later this year. The Kirin 980 plus second generation NPU (and possibly an in-house GPU) will launch at the end of next month. The Kirin 1020 is a mystery. They forecast 200,000,000+ for this year. No idea if that will happen but if it does, it would represent a 50,000,000 increase on last year.
All that while being artificially kept out of the biggest premium handset market. The US.
That is some stiff competition not only for Samsung but also for Apple who will have to beat the optical zoom, hybrid zoom night mode, AIIS, battery, modem, exterior design etc of the P20 Pro for starters. In reality its real flagship competitor will be the Mate 20.
That can only be good for everyone.
And steep discounts? Too funny?
No. That's the whole point of competition. We should celebrate it. And take into account that those flagship phones will probably not dip below $500 so it's not like they're giving them away.
Now, if you would rather not see iPhones discounted (or four year old Minis either) simply because of ASP and raking in billions, that would be funny - but not in the normal way.
As a consumer, I'll take the discount thank you very much, which, before you say it, doesn't constitute a 'race to the bottom'. ;-)
Yeah, I have tears welling up in my eye for the Communist State.
Did you know that it took China Mobile, 30% owned by the Chinese Government, 6 years to approve the iPhone for sale? Did you also know that anyone either in the Communist Party, or the Government, is instructed not to buy iPhones?
Yeah, major sad for Huawei that they crossed the West's intelligence communities by, you know, getting caught sending data back to Chinese servers, even if that was some years ago.
As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product, and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom, and all that with those increased acquisition costs for those new customers. Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark.
But, yeah, marketshare!
I still believe that the greatest strength of the iPhone is core of the iOS operating system which was created by Forstal. Google has always been better at Services where it is search, the Google Assistant, or Maps. Sometime I think that Google should have announced that they were leaving the iPhone. I think many users would have swithed to android to keep their email and maps.
If Touchbar had been a success we would have seen a desktop keyboard with it. I would have loved a Laptop with TouchID but not TouchBar. Sam e with the wired or bluetooth keyboard. I guess in a few years they will come out with FaceID on the computers if not this year.
Hopefully they have fixed the keyboards with the next generation. This is a big fail on Apples part. Seems like Apple should have offered 3 Years coverage beyond what they user purchased under Apple Care. If you bought 2 or 3 years of Apple care the Keyboards should be covered for 5 or 6 years - considering it is fundamentally bad product.
Cooks biggest problem is that he has under invested in important services like Siri and Maps at they don't make money with but still are important to the ecosystem
The recent press stories (Panzarinno) about Apples new revision to MAPs have gotten Apple fans excited but have ignored three important points:
1. Apple Maps was born when Google created their own phone/OS and Jobs wanted to go ThermoNuclear over 7 years ago when Cook should have put maps into the high gear after firing Forstal.
2. Apple choose to pass on buying HERE maps. If they were serious about mapping they would have spent the money to get an already established company.
3. Two years ago Apple Announced with great fanfare their Mapping Center in India. This was supposed to be the thing that would allow to catch up to Google.
Apples still in a Distant 2nd place and I don't expect this to catch them up to Apple.
Cook's second failure is with respect to Siri. Siri's short comings are well known. I will only say that Apple is lucky that Amazon's Alexa took off before Google's Assistant with the home market and third party equipment like Sonos.
Wouldn't it be better to open a new thread? I said there was a lot of nonsense spouted here on Huawei and you have dumped more into this thread.
Do you know how long it took to get full approval of entry of Spanish pata negra ham into the US? A very, very long time.
It is a regulatory issue.
The same as in China with the iPhone and you focus on the case of China Mobile, forgetting that Apple was officially present in China years earlier and, in case you have forgotten, Huawei is not the Chinese government.
On the other hand, Huawei's problems with the US government have nothing to do with regulatory issues but with protectionism hiding behind a 'national security' smokescreen.
As you are digging into the history books I will enlighten you on something that is so ridiculous you would think it could not possibly be true. In the initial national security concerns, the US dug something dodgy out on Huawei. In true keystone cops style, the reports went to the top brass but no one realised that the Huawei in question had NOTHING to do with the Huawei that makes the P20 Pro. It was a company that just happened to have the word Huawei in its name. Now, that is utterly pathetic.
I suggest you read this:
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-campaign-against-huawei/
Huawei has consistently denied any wrong doing and says its connections with the Chinese government are those required by law. Just as they are for all companies everywhere.
Has even a smidgen of evidence ever been presented against them? Nope. Probably because there is none.
On the other hand we have plenty of evidence of failed US intelligence, the NSA interfering with private companies and trying to compromise networking infrastructure worldwide (including Huawei gear). I hope the irony of that is not lost on you.
More:
http://fortune.com/2018/06/26/huawei-dhs-fcc-china-cyber-security/
"As for Huawei launching a flagship every quarter, I'm thinking that they will find out that really isn't an ideal way to shift product,"
Perhaps you weren't paying attention when Huawei said it hopes to ship 50,000,000 more phones than last year? I'd say they're shifting product like never before!
"and when some of the other Android OS device makers do the same, bingo, more pricing pressure in that race to the bottom"
No. There is no race to the bottom. Huawei is growing spectacularly and has consistently moved its focus to the high end but without taking its eyes off the rest of the line.
"Didn't I mention, yet again, that diffusion among the Android OS makers just means that everyone will have the same tech and features within a very short engineering cycle? That's going to leave a mark"
That's called 'competition' but not everyone will have the same. Huawei invests heavily in R&D with centres all over the world. Not everyone can do that. You yourself, and in this very thread, pointed to a rumour on a Samsung triple camera. Was it lost on you that it was rumoured for next year? A full year behind. Apple is also rumoured to have a triple camera in the works but possibly for next year too.
As for short engineering cycles. Would you rather they slowed down? The smartphone industry is known for its relentless advances. When competition is so intense, that is what happens. Consumers usually pick up the fruits.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/429542/why-the-united-states-is-so-afraid-of-huawei/
https://www.cnet.com/news/pentagon-reportedly-bans-sale-of-huawei-and-zte-phones-on-us-military-bases/
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/14/16890110/new-bill-ban-huawei-zte-phones-tech-congress-mike-conaway-cybersecurity
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2018/04/26/huawei-is-under-u-s-criminal-investigation-for-illegal-iran-sales-analysis/
There's a shit ton more of these, and none of them, has any appearance of protectionism, which is the bullshit case you are attempting to make, without any evidence at all.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2018/03/30/huaweis-2017-profit-growth-helps-explain-p20-pros-price/#36d05f9464a6
Revenue of $37.8B
153 m units sold
That's an ASP of $245 for 2017.
The story is wrong about Huawei exceeding Apple in units sales; Apple sold 216m in 2017.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/1961098939/rumor-samsung-galaxy-s10-triple-cam-to-offer-super-wide-angle-and-3x-tele
Looks like Samsung will leapfrog Huawei by early next year, unless Huawei improves it's next 3 lens model.
This is all happening just as expected...
Here is a clip from one of your links:
"The report (PDF), issued by the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee, cites no direct evidence that either Huawei or ZTE has acted to compromise the security of any of its clients."
You see. There is nothing to grab at. Nothing real. Just fear in a few old people's heads who happen to be in high government positions.
Like this:
"US Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa has declared, ‘I can’t pronounce their name, but it starts with an H and ends with a W-E-I. Whenever they’re involved, it scares the devil out of me.’ Yeah, he's 85 and must have a clear understanding of 2018 digital communications security issues!
Yes, there are a 'shit ton more' articles you could link to but none of them actually make a decent case for banning Huawei infrastructure. It's just the same tired old story. Repeated over and over.
Evidence? What evidence do you require? It is those who accuse that need to provide the evidence and they haven't.
One of your links even goes so far as to claim that smaller operators don't have the resources to check for back doors. Can you see anything weird in that? If that were the case they wouldn't have the resources to check for backdoors in ANY equipment but it is still sold in the US. It's clear that back doors aren't at issue here but rather who they belong to! But that is moot. Do you know what HCSEC is? Perhaps the US should look around and see how things are done elsewhere.
Your obsession with ASP continues. Yes Huawei managed to invest more in R&D and make better phones than Apple, pump out four flagships a year and obtain spectacular YoY growth, all with a lower ASP. Your point is?
It is protectionism from January this year where it is widely accepted that political pressure was used on private companies for them to cancel deals with Huawei.
Perhaps what is wrong is your understanding of the story:
https://www.counterpointresearch.com/huawei-overtakes-apple-as-worlds-second-biggest-smartphone-maker/
And to cap it all off:
https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/kansas-wireless-carrier-a-ban-huawei-could-put-us-out-business
It's competition and that's healthy but it's for 2019 which is a long way off (and it's still only a rumour ;-) ).
Do you think Huawei is resting on its laurels?
Sad about Fierce wireless, but that specifically points to national security issues, not protectionism.
Nice try on the data. Huawei jumped ahead of Apple from mid May to July of 2017 and then Apple was ahead again. As I pointed out, yearly sales.