Comparing the Dell XPS 13 9370 versus Apple's 2018 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 66
    /
    tjwolf said:
    You mention the XPS has double the SSD storage - but you didn’t give any information about their relative performances.  Not all SSDs are created equal.  Personal example: started a new job last year and they gave me a super powerful Lenovo Windows desktop w. 64gb RAM and a 1TB SSD.  A complete build of our application  - very IO intensive activity -  took 15 seconds.  Very fast compared to my colleague’s hard disk based times (30+ seconds).   When I needed to replace it with a laptop, I got a 2017 15” MBP with 16gb RAM and a 512gb SSD.   It builds the same application in 7 seconds flat.  Because the SSDs in Macs are the fastest on the planet.
    The XPS SSD was actually just as fast, so we didn't add it into the vid.
    MacBook Pro ssd is way faster then the dell according to laptop magazine. https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastest-laptop-ssd-ever
    StrangeDaysredgeminipawatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 66
    k4everk4ever Posts: 10member
    tjwolf said:
    You mention the XPS has double the SSD storage - but you didn’t give any information about their relative performances.  Not all SSDs are created equal.  Personal example: started a new job last year and they gave me a super powerful Lenovo Windows desktop w. 64gb RAM and a 1TB SSD.  A complete build of our application  - very IO intensive activity -  took 15 seconds.  Very fast compared to my colleague’s hard disk based times (30+ seconds).   When I needed to replace it with a laptop, I got a 2017 15” MBP with 16gb RAM and a 512gb SSD.   It builds the same application in 7 seconds flat.  Because the SSDs in Macs are the fastest on the planet.
    This is brought up a lot and, in my opinion, is one of the most uninformed issues on the planet when it comes to Apple devices. Apple DOES NOT MAKE IT'S OWN SSDs OR RAM! Apple purchases these components from the exact same 3rd party manufacturers as Dell and other Windows PC makers. The difference is that Apple charges more for the exact same SSD and then solders it in so you can replace/upgrade it. On almost ALL Windows laptops, including the XPS, you can replace/upgrade the SSD to whatever size and model you want -- to include whichever one the Macbook is currently using. Most of the time you can do this for less than what the exact same size and model SSD costs in the Macbook. Same with the RAM, although I think Dell solders the RAM in on the XPS line.

    I had this exact same argument with someone in another Apple forum when the 2016 model MBPs came out. I chose to go with a mid-range Windows gaming laptop instead of the MBP. My laptop was faster and more powerful than the highest end 2016 MBP and cost nearly $2000 less: faster processor, faster (and upgradeable) RAM, and faster GPU. The only drawbacks were the battery life (speed comes with a price) and storage. My laptop had a 1TB HDD and an option for NVME SSD that was slower than the one in the MBP, which the other person made it a point to mention (ignoring everything else). I ordered the laptop without an SSD, then bought the exact same SSD as the MBP (the Samsung 960 Pro) for $100 less and installed it in my laptop. Funny thing is, I can upgrade my laptop to the same SSD as the 2018 MBP, which you can't do with a 2016 MBP. When the 2020 MBP comes out, I will also be able to upgrade to that SSD, as long as the NVME standard is still being utilized.
    gatorguyaylk
  • Reply 23 of 66
    k4everk4ever Posts: 10member
    wood1208 said:
    Older versions of Macbook Pro without Touch bar and whatever keyboard had was good design. I really don't like or care touch bar so please offer Macbook Pro like what it used to be with newer internal  hardware.

    I don't think the Core i9 or a dGPU is available for the 13 inch MBP, so cooling should be adequate.  
  • Reply 24 of 66
    AF_HittAF_Hitt Posts: 139member
    henrybay said:
    If Apple doesn’t increase the travel on its keyboards soon, I will probably move to a product like this Dell. I have been using Apple products for decades, but when they drastically reduced the amount of travel on the keys - the prime interface - I have found the latest MacBooks to be unsuitable for extended typing. 

    The other improvements to the MacBook, such as great screen, more power, faster processor, excellent trackpad - are all welcome. But the lack of a decent keyboard is a dealbreaker. 
    You should really take a look at the surface book 2 (or 3 if they release one here later this year), it's a great device, and the most Apple-like thing you can get on the Windows side. It's a little pricier than the Dell, but you can usually find it for a decent deal. The keyboard is very well done, the trackpad is, in my opinion, equal to that of the MacBook Air (that is to say, it is not as big as the MBP, or solid state like the force trackpad is, but the tracking, multi-finger gestures, etc. are all top notch and feel just like my old MBA did). There's even an option with the 13" model to get a GTX 1050, which can do some pretty good gaming. Get the 15" model, and you can get the GTX 1060. Overall as good of a device as you can get with Windows preinstalled. I had one for a couple weeks, but returned it for the new MBP, but that was an OS and ecosystem preference, not because of the Surface Book.
  • Reply 25 of 66
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    You lost me at a better display. If you had said it had a higher display resolution, fine. A better display, not by a long shot.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 66
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    k4ever said:
    tjwolf said:
    You mention the XPS has double the SSD storage - but you didn’t give any information about their relative performances.  Not all SSDs are created equal.  Personal example: started a new job last year and they gave me a super powerful Lenovo Windows desktop w. 64gb RAM and a 1TB SSD.  A complete build of our application  - very IO intensive activity -  took 15 seconds.  Very fast compared to my colleague’s hard disk based times (30+ seconds).   When I needed to replace it with a laptop, I got a 2017 15” MBP with 16gb RAM and a 512gb SSD.   It builds the same application in 7 seconds flat.  Because the SSDs in Macs are the fastest on the planet.
    This is brought up a lot and, in my opinion, is one of the most uninformed issues on the planet when it comes to Apple devices. Apple DOES NOT MAKE IT'S OWN SSDs OR RAM! Apple purchases these components from the exact same 3rd party manufacturers as Dell and other Windows PC makers. The difference is that Apple charges more for the exact same SSD and then solders it in so you can replace/upgrade it. On almost ALL Windows laptops, including the XPS, you can replace/upgrade the SSD to whatever size and model you want -- to include whichever one the Macbook is currently using. Most of the time you can do this for less than what the exact same size and model SSD costs in the Macbook. Same with the RAM, although I think Dell solders the RAM in on the XPS line.

    That’s a fair comment, but while many components are off the shelf, not all of them are, and Apple often uses their own tech to drive them. A bit like having Bootcamp handle the Windows installation. The SSDs are a good example. Standard modules driven by a proprietary controller designed to increase the performance and lifespan of SSDs. 

    https://techcrunch.com/2012/01/11/why-apple-bought-anobit/


    redgeminipatoysandmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 66
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,251member
    What is a “software-based bio-recognition function” and why is it better than Touch ID or Apple Watch authentication?

    The screens are not “the same 13-inch”, they have entirely different ratios. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 66
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,843member
    phytonix said:
    MacBook Pro supports P3 wide color, which is a much bigger color space than sRGB.
    Important point that might have been missed due to forum formatting.... and should be corrected in the article.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 66
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,251member
    k4ever said:
    tjwolf said:
    You mention the XPS has double the SSD storage - but you didn’t give any information about their relative performances.  Not all SSDs are created equal.  Personal example: started a new job last year and they gave me a super powerful Lenovo Windows desktop w. 64gb RAM and a 1TB SSD.  A complete build of our application  - very IO intensive activity -  took 15 seconds.  Very fast compared to my colleague’s hard disk based times (30+ seconds).   When I needed to replace it with a laptop, I got a 2017 15” MBP with 16gb RAM and a 512gb SSD.   It builds the same application in 7 seconds flat.  Because the SSDs in Macs are the fastest on the planet.
    This is brought up a lot and, in my opinion, is one of the most uninformed issues on the planet when it comes to Apple devices. Apple DOES NOT MAKE IT'S OWN SSDs OR RAM! Apple purchases these components from the exact same 3rd party manufacturers as Dell and other Windows PC makers. The difference is that Apple charges more for the exact same SSD and then solders it in so you can replace/upgrade it. On almost ALL Windows laptops, including the XPS, you can replace/upgrade the SSD to whatever size and model you want -- to include whichever one the Macbook is currently using. Most of the time you can do this for less than what the exact same size and model SSD costs in the Macbook. Same with the RAM, although I think Dell solders the RAM in on the XPS line.

    I had this exact same argument with someone in another Apple forum when the 2016 model MBPs came out. I chose to go with a mid-range Windows gaming laptop instead of the MBP. My laptop was faster and more powerful than the highest end 2016 MBP and cost nearly $2000 less: faster processor, faster (and upgradeable) RAM, and faster GPU. The only drawbacks were the battery life (speed comes with a price) and storage. My laptop had a 1TB HDD and an option for NVME SSD that was slower than the one in the MBP, which the other person made it a point to mention (ignoring everything else). I ordered the laptop without an SSD, then bought the exact same SSD as the MBP (the Samsung 960 Pro) for $100 less and installed it in my laptop. Funny thing is, I can upgrade my laptop to the same SSD as the 2018 MBP, which you can't do with a 2016 MBP. When the 2020 MBP comes out, I will also be able to upgrade to that SSD, as long as the NVME standard is still being utilized.
    While it’s true Apple doesn’t manufacture the memory chips, it’s untrue that they’re the exact same as a stock removable SSD drive. They are faster and more reliable. MBPs are famous for their very fast SSD chips. 
    redgeminipawatto_cobraroundaboutnow
  • Reply 30 of 66
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,704member
    k4ever said:
    tjwolf said:
    You mention the XPS has double the SSD storage - but you didn’t give any information about their relative performances.  Not all SSDs are created equal.  Personal example: started a new job last year and they gave me a super powerful Lenovo Windows desktop w. 64gb RAM and a 1TB SSD.  A complete build of our application  - very IO intensive activity -  took 15 seconds.  Very fast compared to my colleague’s hard disk based times (30+ seconds).   When I needed to replace it with a laptop, I got a 2017 15” MBP with 16gb RAM and a 512gb SSD.   It builds the same application in 7 seconds flat.  Because the SSDs in Macs are the fastest on the planet.
    This is brought up a lot and, in my opinion, is one of the most uninformed issues on the planet when it comes to Apple devices. Apple DOES NOT MAKE IT'S OWN SSDs OR RAM! Apple purchases these components from the exact same 3rd party manufacturers as Dell and other Windows PC makers. The difference is that Apple charges more for the exact same SSD and then solders it in so you can replace/upgrade it. On almost ALL Windows laptops, including the XPS, you can replace/upgrade the SSD to whatever size and model you want -- to include whichever one the Macbook is currently using. Most of the time you can do this for less than what the exact same size and model SSD costs in the Macbook. Same with the RAM, although I think Dell solders the RAM in on the XPS line.

    I had this exact same argument with someone in another Apple forum when the 2016 model MBPs came out. I chose to go with a mid-range Windows gaming laptop instead of the MBP. My laptop was faster and more powerful than the highest end 2016 MBP and cost nearly $2000 less: faster processor, faster (and upgradeable) RAM, and faster GPU. The only drawbacks were the battery life (speed comes with a price) and storage. My laptop had a 1TB HDD and an option for NVME SSD that was slower than the one in the MBP, which the other person made it a point to mention (ignoring everything else). I ordered the laptop without an SSD, then bought the exact same SSD as the MBP (the Samsung 960 Pro) for $100 less and installed it in my laptop. Funny thing is, I can upgrade my laptop to the same SSD as the 2018 MBP, which you can't do with a 2016 MBP. When the 2020 MBP comes out, I will also be able to upgrade to that SSD, as long as the NVME standard is still being utilized.
    Sigh:  laptop magazine https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/2018-macbook-pro-benchmarks (reformatted table curtesy macrumors, but that is just an extract from laptop magazine). Apple has invested a lot in ssd controllers in recent years, a new file system and the algorithms that go with it.  The sum of the parts is much greater than it seems. 


    Edit: in my view the only negs of this machine is the price, price and price, with graphics perhaps a distant fourth. Whether it is worth it though for the performance is up to the buyer and their needs.

    edited July 2018 StrangeDayscgWerkswatto_cobraroundaboutnow
  • Reply 31 of 66
    henrybayhenrybay Posts: 144member
    AF_Hitt said:
    henrybay said:
    If Apple doesn’t increase the travel on its keyboards soon, I will probably move to a product like this Dell. I have been using Apple products for decades, but when they drastically reduced the amount of travel on the keys - the prime interface - I have found the latest MacBooks to be unsuitable for extended typing. 

    The other improvements to the MacBook, such as great screen, more power, faster processor, excellent trackpad - are all welcome. But the lack of a decent keyboard is a dealbreaker. 
    You should really take a look at the surface book 2 (or 3 if they release one here later this year), it's a great device, and the most Apple-like thing you can get on the Windows side. It's a little pricier than the Dell, but you can usually find it for a decent deal. The keyboard is very well done, the trackpad is, in my opinion, equal to that of the MacBook Air (that is to say, it is not as big as the MBP, or solid state like the force trackpad is, but the tracking, multi-finger gestures, etc. are all top notch and feel just like my old MBA did). There's even an option with the 13" model to get a GTX 1050, which can do some pretty good gaming. Get the 15" model, and you can get the GTX 1060. Overall as good of a device as you can get with Windows preinstalled. I had one for a couple weeks, but returned it for the new MBP, but that was an OS and ecosystem preference, not because of the Surface Book.
    Dear AF-hitt, thanks for this suggestion. I will certainly take a look at the Surface 2. 
  • Reply 32 of 66
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    chasm said:
    It’s interesting to see what the “best” of the competition has to offer, and nice to compare non-OS factors, but for me the comparison starts and stops with operating system. But even if it didn’t, I can natively run all three of the major OSes on only one of these machines.
    Totally agree!  Well, mostly agree -- I would add the Apple ecosystem into the mix as part of the OS factors...

    I think what this comparison proves is that Apple is, like every other PC manufacturer, simply mixing and matching off the shelf components.   There is simply no way Apple can compete on a hardware basis if another vendor can simply wait a couple months and install the latest version of component X in their machine.  In short:  PCs have entered commodity status -- like washing machines.   If you've seen one you're seen them all.

    But, where Apple can blow away the competition is with software and ecosystem.   Nobody can meet them there much less beat them.  But, it seems every comparison of PCs only sees the hardware while Apple has always known that it is the whole package that makes the difference.  Perhaps the fault lies not with the PCs but with the reviews that only see hardware?

    (That said, it is important for Apple to put out high level hardware.  It's just that that is no longer sufficient to maintain high end status).
    williamlondoncgWerkswatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 66
    kbeekbee Posts: 24member
    Dell:
    + ports 
    + replaceable SSD and RAM (repair/upgrade)
    + SSD PCIe (Same as mac)
    + price 
    + high quality keyboard 
    + function keys 
    + 4K display 
    + slim, nice look 
    - doesn‘t run macOS

    Mac:
    + cool design 
    + runs macOS
    + Maybe better build quality (questionable)
    - everything soldered and glued (RAM, SSD, battery), environmental horror 
    - TouchBar
    - Weak keyboard, no function keys
    - no ports, just adapters
    - price
    - OpenGL deprecated in Mojave

    so basically the Dell wins, but it doesn‘t run macOS. But with the 15inch it gets really interesting 
    https://www.dell.com/de-de/work/shop/dell-notebooks/xps-15-notebook/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop/bnx97011
    edited July 2018 aylkGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 34 of 66
    linkman said:
    I'll agree with the AI writer: Mac trackpads are the best and everything else pales in comparison. The Mac trackpad, even the one on my 2009 MBP, is my favorite pointing/clicking device of all time. I can't stand the puny one on my Dell work laptop. I've noticed almost nobody uses a mouse while mobile on a Mac yet 80% of the time I see people crack out a mouse with a non-Apple laptop.
    I knew I couldn’t be the only one.  Maybe people just don’t complain about it.  I use Dell laptops for work, too.  Every time I get a new one (every 2-3 years), I’m astonished that the trackpad seems exactly the same.  They seem to pick up the unintentional input very well, but they seem to really struggle with the intentional input.  I always disable mine.  It’s too frustrating.  Does Dell not know how hard they suck?  You’re right.  Ten-year-old Apple trackpads are far superior to any Windows system trackpad I have tried.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 66
    kbee said:
    Dell:
    + ports Most people won't need them
    + replaceable SSD and RAM (repair/upgrade) Most people wouldn't upgrade/replace
    + SSD PCIe (Same as Mac) Already proven the SSD in the new MacBook Pros are NOT the same - Nearly 10 TIMES FASTER than every other on the market
    + price Same MSRP as the MacBook Pro - Some discounts on the Mac can be found at some online retailers - Mac has resale value - get what you pay for
    + high quality keyboard Nicer key travel does not mean higher quality
    + function keys Most people don't use them
    + 4K display Useless on something this size, and the actual quality isn't as good as the MacBook Pro's screen
    + slim, nice look Subjective
    - doesn‘t run macOS - Hardware and software are not created in unison to optimize performance metrics. 

    Mac:
    + cool design Nearly every other company is making at least one MacBook knockoff, and have been for years
    + runs macOS And Windows, if needed - hardware and software created in unison for optimal performance
    + Maybe better build quality (questionable) Proven
    - everything soldered and glued (RAM, SSD, battery), environmental horror Most people don't care - obvious since this isn't hurting sales
    - TouchBar Can be useful depending on the apps used
    - Weak keyboard, no function keys Those who've adapted don't really complain - see above re function keys - I'm using a 12" MB with first-gen butterfly keyboard - I've adapted. 
    - no ports, just adapters Most people won't care or use more than just a USB-A hub 
    - price See above - the Dell will never touch a Mac's resale value - you get what you pay for
    - OpenGL deprecated in Mojave It's like Flash all over again - developers need to get with it or lose out - better technology for better performance

    so basically the Dell wins, but it doesn‘t run macOS. But with the 15inch it gets really interesting 
    https://www.dell.com/de-de/work/shop/dell-notebooks/xps-15-notebook/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop/bnx97011
    Clarified a few things for you. Apple caters to the majority of customers, and the majority of buyers of these machines never use them to their full potential. 
    edited July 2018 StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 66
    aylkaylk Posts: 54member
    God knows how many corners the Dell is cutting. They are not usually reliable.
    Are you referring to the keyboard?
  • Reply 37 of 66
    aylkaylk Posts: 54member
    kbee said:
    Dell:
    + ports Most people won't need them
    + replaceable SSD and RAM (repair/upgrade) Most people wouldn't upgrade/replace
    + SSD PCIe (Same as Mac) Already proven the SSD in the new MacBook Pros are NOT the same - Nearly 10 TIMES FASTER than every other on the market
    + price Same MSRP as the MacBook Pro - Some discounts on the Mac can be found at some online retailers - Mac has resale value - get what you pay for
    + high quality keyboard Nicer key travel does not mean higher quality
    + function keys Most people don't use them
    + 4K display Useless on something this size, and the actual quality isn't as good as the MacBook Pro's screen
    + slim, nice look Subjective
    - doesn‘t run macOS - Hardware and software are not created in unison to optimize performance metrics. 

    Mac:
    + cool design Nearly every other company is making at least one MacBook knockoff, and have been for years
    + runs macOS And Windows, if needed - hardware and software created in unison for optimal performance
    + Maybe better build quality (questionable) Proven
    - everything soldered and glued (RAM, SSD, battery), environmental horror Most people don't care - obvious since this isn't hurting sales
    - TouchBar Can be useful depending on the apps used
    - Weak keyboard, no function keys Those who've adapted don't really complain - see above re function keys - I'm using a 12" MB with first-gen butterfly keyboard - I've adapted. 
    - no ports, just adapters Most people won't care or use more than just a USB-A hub 
    - price See above - the Dell will never touch a Mac's resale value - you get what you pay for
    - OpenGL deprecated in Mojave It's like Flash all over again - developers need to get with it or lose out - better technology for better performance

    so basically the Dell wins, but it doesn‘t run macOS. But with the 15inch it gets really interesting 
    https://www.dell.com/de-de/work/shop/dell-notebooks/xps-15-notebook/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop/bnx97011
    Clarified a few things for you. Apple caters to the majority of customers, and the majority of buyers of these machines never use them to their full potential. 
    Clarifying and shilling are opposite things.
  • Reply 38 of 66
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    kbee said:
    Dell:
    + ports Most people won't need them
    + replaceable SSD and RAM (repair/upgrade) Most people wouldn't upgrade/replace
    + SSD PCIe (Same as Mac) Already proven the SSD in the new MacBook Pros are NOT the same - Nearly 10 TIMES FASTER than every other on the market
    + price Same MSRP as the MacBook Pro - Some discounts on the Mac can be found at some online retailers - Mac has resale value - get what you pay for
    + high quality keyboard Nicer key travel does not mean higher quality
    + function keys Most people don't use them
    + 4K display Useless on something this size, and the actual quality isn't as good as the MacBook Pro's screen
    + slim, nice look Subjective
    - doesn‘t run macOS - Hardware and software are not created in unison to optimize performance metrics. 

    Mac:
    + cool design Nearly every other company is making at least one MacBook knockoff, and have been for years
    + runs macOS And Windows, if needed - hardware and software created in unison for optimal performance
    + Maybe better build quality (questionable) Proven
    - everything soldered and glued (RAM, SSD, battery), environmental horror Most people don't care - obvious since this isn't hurting sales
    - TouchBar Can be useful depending on the apps used
    - Weak keyboard, no function keys Those who've adapted don't really complain - see above re function keys - I'm using a 12" MB with first-gen butterfly keyboard - I've adapted. 
    - no ports, just adapters Most people won't care or use more than just a USB-A hub 
    - price See above - the Dell will never touch a Mac's resale value - you get what you pay for
    - OpenGL deprecated in Mojave It's like Flash all over again - developers need to get with it or lose out - better technology for better performance

    so basically the Dell wins, but it doesn‘t run macOS. But with the 15inch it gets really interesting 
    https://www.dell.com/de-de/work/shop/dell-notebooks/xps-15-notebook/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop/bnx97011
    Clarified a few things for you. Apple caters to the majority of customers, and the majority of buyers of these machines never use them to their full potential. 
    Did you mean to say:  "Spun a few things for you."?
    avon b7
  • Reply 39 of 66
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,259member
    chasm said:
    It’s interesting to see what the “best” of the competition has to offer, and nice to compare non-OS factors, but for me the comparison starts and stops with operating system. But even if it didn’t, I can natively run all three of the major OSes on only one of these machines.
    Totally agree!  Well, mostly agree -- I would add the Apple ecosystem into the mix as part of the OS factors...

    I think what this comparison proves is that Apple is, like every other PC manufacturer, simply mixing and matching off the shelf components.   There is simply no way Apple can compete on a hardware basis if another vendor can simply wait a couple months and install the latest version of component X in their machine.  In short:  PCs have entered commodity status -- like washing machines.   If you've seen one you're seen them all.

    But, where Apple can blow away the competition is with software and ecosystem.   Nobody can meet them there much less beat them.  But, it seems every comparison of PCs only sees the hardware while Apple has always known that it is the whole package that makes the difference.  Perhaps the fault lies not with the PCs but with the reviews that only see hardware?

    (That said, it is important for Apple to put out high level hardware.  It's just that that is no longer sufficient to maintain high end status).
    The ecosystem of Apple is strong in iOS, and not necessarily with macOS.  Windows desktop ecosystem still miles ahead of macOS, considering the long list of applications available and the different hardware options.  Gamers are one market where the Windows ecosystem shines compared to macOS, same as business/enterprises, where MS leads, and the integration of their services and applications beats Apple offerings.  There are places where Apple may do better, but your line "But, where Apple can blow away the competition is with software and ecosystem.   Nobody can meet them there much less beat them." is not true in all cases. 

  • Reply 40 of 66
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,259member
    kbee said:
    Dell:
    + ports Most people won't need them
    + replaceable SSD and RAM (repair/upgrade) Most people wouldn't upgrade/replace
    + SSD PCIe (Same as Mac) Already proven the SSD in the new MacBook Pros are NOT the same - Nearly 10 TIMES FASTER than every other on the market
    + price Same MSRP as the MacBook Pro - Some discounts on the Mac can be found at some online retailers - Mac has resale value - get what you pay for
    + high quality keyboard Nicer key travel does not mean higher quality
    + function keys Most people don't use them
    + 4K display Useless on something this size, and the actual quality isn't as good as the MacBook Pro's screen
    + slim, nice look Subjective
    - doesn‘t run macOS - Hardware and software are not created in unison to optimize performance metrics. 

    Mac:
    + cool design Nearly every other company is making at least one MacBook knockoff, and have been for years
    + runs macOS And Windows, if needed - hardware and software created in unison for optimal performance
    + Maybe better build quality (questionable) Proven
    - everything soldered and glued (RAM, SSD, battery), environmental horror Most people don't care - obvious since this isn't hurting sales
    - TouchBar Can be useful depending on the apps used
    - Weak keyboard, no function keys Those who've adapted don't really complain - see above re function keys - I'm using a 12" MB with first-gen butterfly keyboard - I've adapted. 
    - no ports, just adapters Most people won't care or use more than just a USB-A hub 
    - price See above - the Dell will never touch a Mac's resale value - you get what you pay for
    - OpenGL deprecated in Mojave It's like Flash all over again - developers need to get with it or lose out - better technology for better performance

    so basically the Dell wins, but it doesn‘t run macOS. But with the 15inch it gets really interesting 
    https://www.dell.com/de-de/work/shop/dell-notebooks/xps-15-notebook/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop/bnx97011
    Clarified a few things for you. Apple caters to the majority of customers, and the majority of buyers of these machines never use them to their full potential. 
    + ports Most people won't need them

    It looks like there is a long list of people that still care for ports.

    + SSD PCIe (Same as Mac) Already proven the SSD in the new MacBook Pros are NOT the same - Nearly 10 TIMES FASTER than every other on the market

    From what I read in an article, maybe the file system had something to do with the 10x faster.  Would be nice to see some test for the HDD itself.

    + high quality keyboard Nicer key travel does not mean higher quality
    A keyboard that get stuck with dust can't be considered high quality.
    + function keys Most people don't use them

    I think developers not necessarily agree with you. 

    + cool design Nearly every other company is making at least one MacBook knockoff, and have been for years

    But as you posted previously, looks are subjective.  I suppose there are people who finds the XPS a better looking notebooks than the MBP.

    + Maybe better build quality (questionable) Proven

    The MBP 2018 was released recently, so is not proven.

    - TouchBar Can be useful depending on the apps used
    Or maybe it's useless, depending in users needs or apps. 
    - Weak keyboard, no function keys Those who've adapted don't really complain - see above re function keys - I'm using a 12" MB with first-gen butterfly keyboard - I've adapted.

    I find interesting that you have to adapt to the keyboard.  If it's good, why you have to adapt to it?  For example, Apple trackpads are excellent, and I haven't heard of someone that needed time to adapt to it.  Why it's different with the latest keyboards if they are so good?

    - price See above - the Dell will never touch a Mac's resale value - you get what you pay for

    Apple notebooks resale value is excellent.  But about the line "you get what you pay for" is very interesting.  About two years ago Schiller mentioned that there were about 600M PC with over +5 years.  Could it be that PC's are getting better and now "you are getting what you pay for?"

    avon b7cgWerks
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