Intel delays 10nm Cannon Lake processor production to late 2019

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 40
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,761member
    Soli said:
    bonobob said:
    linkman said:
    Intel is running up against the fact that wavelengths of light can get only so short (10 nm is pretty stinking short) and physics is going to win at attempts to get much smaller. A transistor can't get smaller than an atom. Progress on ICs is getting slower and will need some sort of breakthrough (like power reduction, using neural-type processing, memristors, light instead of electricity, etc.) before we can see performance improvement rates that we've experienced over the last 40 years.
    On the other hand, Apple's current lineup of iPhones is rocking a 10nm SOC, so physics is not the limitation.  Intel is just behind on the manufacturing tech.

    Edit: Missing apostrophe.
    I don't understand how Intel is measuring in a different way from others, but I'm told that Apple's SoC's at 10nm are actually more inline with 14nm.
    The 7nm A12, and every other new SOC for that matter, will likely be equal or better in density to Intel's 10nm. Intel might have accomplished an earlier change in microarchitecture at 14nm to improve power efficiency had they had any idea that they would be stuck at 14nm for 5 years, more or less.
    Avieshekwatto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 22 of 40
    This is actually really good news. The entire industry needs to ween itself from Intel CPUs and move to ARM based processors. They are far more efficient, less expensive to manufacture and are gaining in performance much faster than the old x86 architectures. If it wasn't for AMD competition there would be little movement in performance out of Intel and that has the effect of slowing down everything else. Anyone that says that computers are fast enough to do what most people need has not paid attention for the past 30 years. Computers do new things when they get faster.
    muthuk_vanalingamAvieshekAlex1N
  • Reply 23 of 40
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,386member
    wizard69 said:
    My greatest fear with respect to Mac is that Apple doesn't give a damn anymore.    I really cant consider the platform again until they demonstrate that the Mac platform means something to them.  The entire desktop lineup is a joke these days and the laptops are not much better.   It is just hard to do business with a company that doesnt respect its own products much less its customers.    I mean really a 4 year old computer with an unchanged list price.  
    JFC, this again. The *only* question mark in the desktop lineup right now is the mini. The iMac is great, and due for a refresh any time now. The iMac Pro is great. The Mac Pro we know is coming next year, and we know they're perhaps even working too hard to get it right this time. "The laptops are not much better" ... We get 32GB of RAM, an improved keyboard, much faster hexacore processors, and people still bitch. Not to mention Mojave shows they care quite a bit about macOS.

    Yeah I hear yeah, but its really nothing new. Its been going on since I've been apart of forums back in the early 2000's. It doesn't matter what Apple releases there's always someone who will just constantly bitch no matter what. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 24 of 40
    macseekermacseeker Posts: 524member
    Maybe it's time to think beyond electronics and think of photonics.
    watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 25 of 40
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    macseeker said:
    Maybe it's time to think beyond electronics and think of photonics.
    It does seem like time to try a new technology. There are supposedly alloys of silicon and other metals that work better than silicon alone.
    watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 26 of 40
    AvieshekAvieshek Posts: 100member
    And still in 2019, lack of LPDDR5, PCIe 5.0, GDDR6, Thunderbolt 4 etc from Mac.

    Expect, MacBook Pro unable to have 64GB RAM even if Apple considers DDR5 this time. Haha

    The only viable solution, is over-clockable A-series chip in Mac.
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 27 of 40
    emoelleremoeller Posts: 548member
    This cements my purchasing a 15” MBP now as the next refresh is at least 18 months out (and now that the dust and rumors are settling down this 2018 refresh looks like the best in years!)

    i watched interim CEO Swan’s CNBC interview and it wasn’t pretty.  He is actually the CFO in his day job and he said he couldn’t wait get back to that position.  Intel has some serious operational issues and it doesn’t look like those will get straightened out until a new CEO is in place.   Despite good numbers and forecast the stock was down today.


    watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 28 of 40
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    wizard69 said:
    k2kw said:
    It’s time for an Aseries based iBook running either macOS or iOS using Marzipan APPS.
    maybe Intel would get their act together if they saw they were endangered of losing tons of sales.

    I hope atleast Apple has moved over to their own silicon based on the A series chips for their data centers as they are better for heat and power.
    Intel is already loosing out to AMD as in some respects AMD out performs the Intel offerings.  When AMD is behind the performance curve they are not behind by much and for most people it doesnt matter.   Beyond that AMDs APUs have a much better GPU subsystem.    From what im hearing AMD might also beat Intel to a sub 10nm process.  

    AMD of course is only one solution to the Intel problem.   Apple could easily introduce an M series ARM based processor for Macs.  The M would be for Mac of course.  They have already demonstrated decent performance in the constrained environment of iPad so with a few more watts i cant see anybody complaining about performance.  A Mac Book could easily handle an 8 or 10 core ARM based chip plus that chip would have all of Apples goodies.  

    My greatest fear with respect to Mac is that Apple doesn't give a damn anymore.    I really cant consider the platform again until they demonstrate that the Mac platform means something to them.  The entire desktop lineup is a joke these days and the laptops are not much better.   It is just hard to do business with a company that doesnt respect its own products much less its customers.    I mean really a 4 year old computer with an unchanged list price.  
    I think your fears will be there until we get a new Mac (team).
    The past several years have produced more blunders than progress.  I can't see Apple letting that go on for much longer.
    igohmmmAlex1N
  • Reply 29 of 40
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,071member
    wizard69 said:
    k2kw said:
    It’s time for an Aseries based iBook running either macOS or iOS using Marzipan APPS.
    maybe Intel would get their act together if they saw they were endangered of losing tons of sales.

    I hope atleast Apple has moved over to their own silicon based on the A series chips for their data centers as they are better for heat and power.

    My greatest fear with respect to Mac is that Apple doesn't give a damn anymore.    I really cant consider the platform again until they demonstrate that the Mac platform means something to them.  The entire desktop lineup is a joke these days and the laptops are not much better.   It is just hard to do business with a company that doesnt respect its own products much less its customers.    I mean really a 4 year old computer with an unchanged list price.  

    Despite mot liking the butterfly keyboard I do think that the people of Apple do cate and love the Mac.  

    Hardware wise Apple has a challenge because they have two computer platforms. - Mac and iPadPro.    When those “what’s a computer” commercials air it must scare intel execs.   Adobe is supposed to be porting Photoshop.  That’s a sign of power of the platform.

    Software wise not only does Apple update the software for the macOS annually, but also the continuity connection between the Mac and iPhone or watch.

    this intel news makes me wonder if and when the new MacPro will be released.   They probably were waiting for 10 nm Xeon chips.   They will probably have to release another computer that isn’t really what they want but the best they can do now.   Agree Apple is probably looking at AMD now.
    edited July 2018 Alex1N
  • Reply 30 of 40
    wizard69 said:
    k2kw said:
    It’s time for an Aseries based iBook running either macOS or iOS using Marzipan APPS.
    maybe Intel would get their act together if they saw they were endangered of losing tons of sales.

    I hope atleast Apple has moved over to their own silicon based on the A series chips for their data centers as they are better for heat and power.
    Intel is already loosing out to AMD as in some respects AMD out performs the Intel offerings.  When AMD is behind the performance curve they are not behind by much and for most people it doesnt matter.   Beyond that AMDs APUs have a much better GPU subsystem.    From what im hearing AMD might also beat Intel to a sub 10nm process.  

    AMD of course is only one solution to the Intel problem.   Apple could easily introduce an M series ARM based processor for Macs.  The M would be for Mac of course.  They have already demonstrated decent performance in the constrained environment of iPad so with a few more watts i cant see anybody complaining about performance.  A Mac Book could easily handle an 8 or 10 core ARM based chip plus that chip would have all of Apples goodies.  

    My greatest fear with respect to Mac is that Apple doesn't give a damn anymore.    I really cant consider the platform again until they demonstrate that the Mac platform means something to them.  The entire desktop lineup is a joke these days and the laptops are not much better.   It is just hard to do business with a company that doesnt respect its own products much less its customers.    I mean really a 4 year old computer with an unchanged list price.  
    I think your fears will be there until we get a new Mac (team).
    The past several years have produced more blunders than progress.  I can't see Apple letting that go on for much longer.
    IMHO, it's amazing for Apple to release a high-performing Pro line after some adjustments to what's essentially a 2016 chassis, going by reports. You could question the price, but surely not their forethought or commitment?

    And, MacOS Mojave seems similarly striking in all the new features and performance gains it will bring, going by all the reviews. That doesn't seem like a lack of commitment to me, either.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 31 of 40
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,195member
    wizard69 said:
    k2kw said:
    It’s time for an Aseries based iBook running either macOS or iOS using Marzipan APPS.
    maybe Intel would get their act together if they saw they were endangered of losing tons of sales.

    I hope atleast Apple has moved over to their own silicon based on the A series chips for their data centers as they are better for heat and power.
    My greatest fear with respect to Mac is that Apple doesn't give a damn anymore.    I really cant consider the platform again until they demonstrate that the Mac platform means something to them.  The entire desktop lineup is a joke these days and the laptops are not much better.   It is just hard to do business with a company that doesnt respect its own products much less its customers.    I mean really a 4 year old computer with an unchanged list price.  
    LOL, your posts always boil down to "Things used to be better back in my day!"

    Nuts. Today's Macs are the best they've ever been. My MBP kills it, and while I'm still on a loaded 2011 iMac desktop, the 5K models and the iMac Pro would shred my machine to dust, and have amazing screens. Head and shoulders above my older iMac, so the notion that they don't care about them is simply delusional hater-fantasy. 

    (Side note, isn't it interesting that people who claim to have quit the platform oddly still feel compelled to write daily about the platform that they supposedly quit for the better!? Makes ya wonder...if life is so grand in PC land, why do they keep telling us how much our Macs suck!? lol)
    SoliRayz2016PickUrPoisonwatto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 32 of 40
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,195member
    wizard69 said:
    k2kw said:
    It’s time for an Aseries based iBook running either macOS or iOS using Marzipan APPS.
    maybe Intel would get their act together if they saw they were endangered of losing tons of sales.

    I hope atleast Apple has moved over to their own silicon based on the A series chips for their data centers as they are better for heat and power.
    Intel is already loosing out to AMD as in some respects AMD out performs the Intel offerings.  When AMD is behind the performance curve they are not behind by much and for most people it doesnt matter.   Beyond that AMDs APUs have a much better GPU subsystem.    From what im hearing AMD might also beat Intel to a sub 10nm process.  

    AMD of course is only one solution to the Intel problem.   Apple could easily introduce an M series ARM based processor for Macs.  The M would be for Mac of course.  They have already demonstrated decent performance in the constrained environment of iPad so with a few more watts i cant see anybody complaining about performance.  A Mac Book could easily handle an 8 or 10 core ARM based chip plus that chip would have all of Apples goodies.  

    My greatest fear with respect to Mac is that Apple doesn't give a damn anymore.    I really cant consider the platform again until they demonstrate that the Mac platform means something to them.  The entire desktop lineup is a joke these days and the laptops are not much better.   It is just hard to do business with a company that doesnt respect its own products much less its customers.    I mean really a 4 year old computer with an unchanged list price.  
    I think your fears will be there until we get a new Mac (team).
    The past several years have produced more blunders than progress.  I can't see Apple letting that go on for much longer.
    You guys are living in an alternate universe. More blunders than progress? Yeah no. There's a reason Mac sales are still growing. Haters gonna hate tho.
    Soliwatto_cobralamboaudi4Alex1N
  • Reply 33 of 40
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    Does this mean delayed Xeons will further delay the next Mac Pro?
  • Reply 34 of 40
    igohmmmigohmmm Posts: 10member
    Soli said:
    I don't understand how Intel is measuring in a different way from others, but I'm told that Apple's SoC's at 10nm are actually more inline with 14nm.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14_nanometer#Comparison_of_process_nodes

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_nanometer#10_nm_process_nodes
    Alex1N
  • Reply 35 of 40
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    wizard69 said:

    My greatest fear with respect to Mac is that Apple doesn't give a damn anymore.    I really cant consider the platform again until they demonstrate that the Mac platform means something to them.  The entire desktop lineup is a joke these days and the laptops are not much better.   It is just hard to do business with a company that doesnt respect its own products much less its customers.    I mean really a 4 year old computer with an unchanged list price.  

    Yup, whatever.

    Before commenting on the price of anything, you should read up on basic economic theory first.

    Apple doesn't set the price of its machines; the market does. If you still don't understand this after it's been explained here so many times, then I really can't help you.

    edited July 2018 macxpresswatto_cobralamboaudi4Alex1N
  • Reply 36 of 40
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    wizard69 said:
    k2kw said:
    It’s time for an Aseries based iBook running either macOS or iOS using Marzipan APPS.
    maybe Intel would get their act together if they saw they were endangered of losing tons of sales.

    I hope atleast Apple has moved over to their own silicon based on the A series chips for their data centers as they are better for heat and power.
    My greatest fear with respect to Mac is that Apple doesn't give a damn anymore.    I really cant consider the platform again until they demonstrate that the Mac platform means something to them.  The entire desktop lineup is a joke these days and the laptops are not much better.   It is just hard to do business with a company that doesnt respect its own products much less its customers.    I mean really a 4 year old computer with an unchanged list price.  
    A year ago I would have shared that fear but Apple has really got the message recently. 

    New Mac Pro and Cinema Display on the way. OS X Mojave is a major upgrade including new Mac App Store. The new MacBook Pros are equivalent to their PC counterparts (latest 6-core CPUs). eGPU support added to the OS, something iPhone would never use. They even made an advertising campaign literally called "Behind the Mac." How much more proof do you want that Apple cares about the Mac?

    Edit: I know from your other posts on this forum that you recently defected to Windows, and I totally understand that given the lack of attention Mac was getting, but I honestly think that if you had just held on six more months you wouldn't have had to.
    edited July 2018 watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 37 of 40
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    wizard69 said:
    k2kw said:
    It’s time for an Aseries based iBook running either macOS or iOS using Marzipan APPS.
    maybe Intel would get their act together if they saw they were endangered of losing tons of sales.

    I hope atleast Apple has moved over to their own silicon based on the A series chips for their data centers as they are better for heat and power.
    Intel is already loosing out to AMD as in some respects AMD out performs the Intel offerings.  When AMD is behind the performance curve they are not behind by much and for most people it doesnt matter.   Beyond that AMDs APUs have a much better GPU subsystem.    From what im hearing AMD might also beat Intel to a sub 10nm process.  

    AMD of course is only one solution to the Intel problem.   Apple could easily introduce an M series ARM based processor for Macs.  The M would be for Mac of course.  They have already demonstrated decent performance in the constrained environment of iPad so with a few more watts i cant see anybody complaining about performance.  A Mac Book could easily handle an 8 or 10 core ARM based chip plus that chip would have all of Apples goodies.  

    My greatest fear with respect to Mac is that Apple doesn't give a damn anymore.    I really cant consider the platform again until they demonstrate that the Mac platform means something to them.  The entire desktop lineup is a joke these days and the laptops are not much better.   It is just hard to do business with a company that doesnt respect its own products much less its customers.    I mean really a 4 year old computer with an unchanged list price.  
    I think your fears will be there until we get a new Mac (team).
    The past several years have produced more blunders than progress.  I can't see Apple letting that go on for much longer.
    You guys are living in an alternate universe. More blunders than progress? Yeah no. There's a reason Mac sales are still growing. Haters gonna hate tho.
    Truth doesn't hate.  But it does sting....
    Alex1N
  • Reply 38 of 40
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Avieshek said:
    And still in 2019, lack of LPDDR5, PCIe 5.0, GDDR6, Thunderbolt 4 etc from Mac. Expect, MacBook Pro unable to have 64GB RAM even if Apple considers DDR5 this time. Haha The only viable solution, is over-clockable A-series chip in Mac.
    I knew there would be a way for Apple to get people BEGGING them to build a regular computer which couldn’t install software from third party sources. Never in my worst nightmares did I imagine it would hinge on hardware availability, though.
  • Reply 39 of 40
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,386member
    dysamoria said:
    Does this mean delayed Xeons will further delay the next Mac Pro?
    Maybe Apple will use AMD CPU's? 
    Alex1N
  • Reply 40 of 40
    Isn't the A12 chip rumored to be 7nm? Also, virtualization and x86 were a huge win for Apple/Windows compatibility. While I rarely need to jump over to a Windows VM to debug things now that IE is on its dying breath, Edge is still a thing I have to debug for as a working professional and I'd be cheesed if the ability to run an OS in a window was revoked.
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