Jony Ive says Apple has 'energy and vitality' and he is nowhere close to done

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 40
    The interview concluded with Ive saying what keeps him up at night is the divisiveness in the U.S. amongst the citizenry, which has intensified as of late. He declined to elaborate on the matter.
    Spoken like a true Englishman. That would keep me up at night, too, if I lived in the US again as I have done for different periods in the past.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 40
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,333member
    Meh. Ive is obsessed with thinness and flat minimalism nonsense. iOS has been a buggy pain in the ass since Ive put the print marketing team on the interface redesign (well, re-skin). Bugs introduced in iOS 7 are still here 6 major releases later; the GUI is ugly and gestures are out of control. For example: iOS 11 changed the gestures on iMessage keyboard hiding and it is making it a massive pain in the ass to edit text in messages. I know no one effing proofreads or spends more than a second composing their words, but it’s extremely effing frustrating for those of us who DO bother to put out the effort when we keep having the keyboard disappear just because we made a downward text selection motion. This is similar to the competing gestures that make the control center appear most times I try to swipe up from the 123 key to get a number or other character.

    and this is just the tip of the effing iceberg. Autocorrect breaks on web forms (like this one), text selection for text editing is broken in Safari (has been since 2013’s iOS 7), 3D Touch almost never works the first time in any Safari edit fields, the iOS 12 “hold space for cursor movement” feature doesn’t work at all in this AI comment field (or sometimes it does... as well as the red spelling highlight, also broken here, and elsewhere in Safari page views), the magnifying view when moving the pointer around in a text edit field (long touch) often is pointing in the wrong place, defeating the point of it), multiselect of list items is broken by mindlessly stupid design in numerous native apps (an edit mode just to get the same one-at-a-time delete option makes NO SENSE!!), CMD-Tab switching with the Smart Keyboard is broken on my iPad Pro (the list of apps doesn’t change when apps are closed and some don’t ever appear at all), activating text edit fields in boxes like this one on AI is ludicrous (touch on the first line, nowhere else), keyboard pops up after submitting a form and having no text entry field active (also on AI), and on and on and on...

    Not only does Ive need to be replaced, a lot of Apple leadership needs to be replaced. When this many usability bugs are still present, after this long, and QA either doesn’t catch them (I find most of the bugs within the first day using the new version) or executives refuse to allocate resources to bug fixing... things need to effing change. Like I keep saying: this is not the Apple that won me over in 2008/2009
    edited October 2018
  • Reply 23 of 40
    foljsfoljs Posts: 364member
    Jony Ive says Apple has 'energy and vitality' and he is nowhere close to done

    That sounds like what one would say when one doesn't have energy and vitality and are close to done!

    (When you have energy and vitality you don't say it, you prove it by doing)

    dysamoria
  • Reply 24 of 40
    foljsfoljs Posts: 364member
    JWSC said:
    Jony looks so out of place in that suit.
    Haha...He's known to like Bentley's and fine hotels...you kind of need a suit or two for those. :)
    Not really. Rich people dress in whatever they like. Middle managers have to wear suits...
    edited October 2018
  • Reply 25 of 40
    Shouldn’t a guy obsessed with making everything thinner, lead by, you know, example?

    ;-)
    JWSCSpamSandwich
  • Reply 26 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,295member
    seanj said:
    zoetmb said:
    rain22 said:
    I'm convinced he won't be done until he has a wafer thin iPhone that gets 2 minutes of battery time. 
    I think in recent years, Apple has placed form over function far too often.   And in the case of iPhones, it's a sad joke because the phones aren't robust enough to not use a case, which hides the form anyway.

    Apple's decision to not let end-users replace the battery or upgrade memory or storage may have been to force people to upgrade their computers more often
    Rubbish.

    Ive’s entire design philosophy is “form FOLLOWS function” which comes from his design hero Dieter Rams of Braun. Which is why, for example, the Apple Watch is rectangular - see Ram’s digital watch. Ive even copied the spot on the Ram’s design for the Series 3 - though it was yellow not red on Ram’s.
    (Though the best example of homage is the copying of Ram’s calculator.)

    Yes iPhones aren’t robust if you’re a ‘phone zombie’, walking while holding and operating it one handed. But I’m not, and having owned iPhones without cases for >6 years without cases, I haven’t got so much as a scratch.
    (Let me give you another hint, keep your phone in one pocket, your keys and coins in another.)

    Why would I need to replace my battery? My 2006 MacBook, the last of the Black Macs still charges and runs fine. Am actually a little annoyed that in 2007 I bought a spare battery for it and have never used it...
    Most people don’t want to replace memory or storage, in the same way they don’t want to to install a bigger fuel tank in their car or take a soldering iron to their TV. Which is of course what Jobs always believed computers should be, a closed design, a tool for the mind, not a Meccano kit for tinkerers.
    I think you are seeing things through rose tinted glasses.

    When changing a laptop battery requires replacing the the top case and keyboard, something has gone wrong. When changing any of those elements requires changing the other two, something has gone horribly wrong.

    When phones move to IP68 but laptop keyboards aren't splash or particle proof, something is not right. How many phones end up submerged in water vs keyboards with liquid ingress? Keyboards that have problems with things like dust?

    When changing a failed iMac hard disk requires removing the screen assembly, something is not right.

    It took Apple a very long time to use front ports. They didn't last long in spite of being the best place for frequently used connections.

    Apple has a TERRIBLE record with cable design. Thin, slippery and frayable is the order of the day.

    Placing an SD card slot on the REAR of an iMac is a hideous design decision.

    Batteries go bad. Many swell when they do and the smaller the capacities, largely speaking, the sooner you will reach the cycle ceiling and need to change them (iPhone 6 comes to mind). A battery swap shouldn't put the screen at risk.

    I have always detested the sharp pointed corners on the indent of the body of MBPs (where you put your finger to lift the screen). Just round them off a little.

    A one port Macbook? One port! No! 

    As for software design, whose idea was it to put small  grey text on a grey background on a small screen (MacBook Air).

    Shake to undo? How discoverable is that?

    Etc.


    entropys
  • Reply 27 of 40
    Interesting side note:
    I was in the Apple Store the other day and mentioned Jony Ive to the rep there.   He responded:  "Who's Jony Ive?"    I found that a bit scary.
    dysamoriaJWSCwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 40
    avon b7 said:
    seanj said:
    zoetmb said:
    rain22 said:
    I'm convinced he won't be done until he has a wafer thin iPhone that gets 2 minutes of battery time. 
    I think in recent years, Apple has placed form over function far too often.   And in the case of iPhones, it's a sad joke because the phones aren't robust enough to not use a case, which hides the form anyway.

    Apple's decision to not let end-users replace the battery or upgrade memory or storage may have been to force people to upgrade their computers more often
    Rubbish.

    Ive’s entire design philosophy is “form FOLLOWS function” which comes from his design hero Dieter Rams of Braun. Which is why, for example, the Apple Watch is rectangular - see Ram’s digital watch. Ive even copied the spot on the Ram’s design for the Series 3 - though it was yellow not red on Ram’s.
    (Though the best example of homage is the copying of Ram’s calculator.)

    Yes iPhones aren’t robust if you’re a ‘phone zombie’, walking while holding and operating it one handed. But I’m not, and having owned iPhones without cases for >6 years without cases, I haven’t got so much as a scratch.
    (Let me give you another hint, keep your phone in one pocket, your keys and coins in another.)

    Why would I need to replace my battery? My 2006 MacBook, the last of the Black Macs still charges and runs fine. Am actually a little annoyed that in 2007 I bought a spare battery for it and have never used it...
    Most people don’t want to replace memory or storage, in the same way they don’t want to to install a bigger fuel tank in their car or take a soldering iron to their TV. Which is of course what Jobs always believed computers should be, a closed design, a tool for the mind, not a Meccano kit for tinkerers.
    I think you are seeing things through rose tinted glasses.

    When changing a laptop battery requires replacing the the top case and keyboard, something has gone wrong. When changing any of those elements requires changing the other two, something has gone horribly wrong.

    When phones move to IP68 but laptop keyboards aren't splash or particle proof, something is not right. How many phones end up submerged in water vs keyboards with liquid ingress? Keyboards that have problems with things like dust?

    When changing a failed iMac hard disk requires removing the screen assembly, something is not right.

    It took Apple a very long time to use front ports. They didn't last long in spite of being the best place for frequently used connections.

    Apple has a TERRIBLE record with cable design. Thin, slippery and frayable is the order of the day.

    Placing an SD card slot on the REAR of an iMac is a hideous design decision.

    Batteries go bad. Many swell when they do and the smaller the capacities, largely speaking, the sooner you will reach the cycle ceiling and need to change them (iPhone 6 comes to mind). A battery swap shouldn't put the screen at risk.

    I have always detested the sharp pointed corners on the indent of the body of MBPs (where you put your finger to lift the screen). Just round them off a little.

    A one port Macbook? One port! No! 

    As for software design, whose idea was it to put small  grey text on a grey background on a small screen (MacBook Air).

    Shake to undo? How discoverable is that?

    Etc.


    I’m not looking through rose tinted glasses but those of a computer science graduate with a 29 year career in the industry; most of which spent painfully forced to use Windows crap everyday...

    Why do I need to know what’s involved in taking a Mac apart to replace a battery etc? That’s for the repairman to do if it’s ever needed; after 4 Macs, 2 iPhones and an iPad I’ve only ever needed one repair...
    Back in 2009 I needed the original hard drive replacing on my 2006 MacBook. Took it into the Apple store, they told me two days, when I mentioned I needed it for a dj gig (I’m a man of many talents) they did it it under 24 hours. A year later they refunded the cost as they had discovered Hitachi had shipped a bad batch of hard drives. Typical first rate customer service.

    So with such great service, why would I ever want to try and repair a Mac/iPhone etc myself? I’ve got far better enjoyable or lucrative things to do with my time.

    One port on a MacBook 12”, well the original MacBook Air 11” only had one USB2 via a dongle. I waited until it had 2 USB3 ports and Thunderbolt port for buying one. I suspect the lack of cooling fans on the MacBook means Apple is trying to keep potential power drain low. I expect like the Air we’ll see more ports eventually.

    i agree with you though re the sharp corners on the open notch on MacBooks. To quote another industrial designer, “people don’t have sharp corners on them so neither should furniture”.
    dysamoriaJWSCwatto_cobraracerhomie3
  • Reply 29 of 40
    zoetmb said:
    [...] I think people will upgrade less often because of the cost and Apple might even lose some customers who no longer want to pay what Apple now gets for its laptops, which IMO has ventured into ludicrous territory.
    That's our house. My daughter and wife both need new laptops, but we haven't replaced them because holy price hurt! We could probably get 13" models at a price we're prepared to pay, but they both really want larger screens. I don't blame them. I do, too. Since there's no "affordable" Apple laptop with a 15" screen, we're not sure what to do. We don't want to switch, but damn, the cost of storage in the current crop of Appletops makes my butt pucker.

    My wife and I were also hoping to upgrade our old iPhones this year, but when we saw the price of the XS Max we both burst out laughing! Hopefully the XR will be big enough for our aging eyes, but if not, we're in the same place we are with laptops. We don't WANT to switch, but maybe it's time? We'll see, I guess.
    avon b7uktechiedysamoriaentropys
  • Reply 30 of 40
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,269member
    zoetmb said:
    [...] I think people will upgrade less often because of the cost and Apple might even lose some customers who no longer want to pay what Apple now gets for its laptops, which IMO has ventured into ludicrous territory.
    That's our house. My daughter and wife both need new laptops, but we haven't replaced them because holy price hurt! We could probably get 13" models at a price we're prepared to pay, but they both really want larger screens. I don't blame them. I do, too. Since there's no "affordable" Apple laptop with a 15" screen, we're not sure what to do. We don't want to switch, but damn, the cost of storage in the current crop of Appletops makes my butt pucker.

    My wife and I were also hoping to upgrade our old iPhones this year, but when we saw the price of the XS Max we both burst out laughing! Hopefully the XR will be big enough for our aging eyes, but if not, we're in the same place we are with laptops. We don't WANT to switch, but maybe it's time? We'll see, I guess.
    My very free and very uninformed advice is to WAIT!
    I think that Apple will be expanding on their laptop line with more less expensive consumer grade products.  The MacBook and MacBook Air are both due for updates.   Hopefully they do with these what they have done with their phones and carry a product most any wallet.

    As for the Xr:   It's screen will be bigger than the 8+ was.   Go for it!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 40
    I really wish Apple would at least design desktops where it's easy to upgrade memory and storage like most other computer companies do. I'm sure it's not going to happen because of Apple's quest for profits above all else. Apple sells almost totally sealed desktops and then they won't even upgrade them with new hardware for three years. It does seem a bit unfair, but I'm still going to stick with using Macs. I'd watched Linus on Linus Tech Tips upgrade an iMac Pro and the complexity of it was just unreal. He did upgrade the processor along with RAM memory, but still... so freaking many steps.
  • Reply 32 of 40
    zoetmb said:
    rain22 said:
    I'm convinced he won't be done until he has a wafer thin iPhone that gets 2 minutes of battery time. 
    Yes.  If he ever goes, I would hope Apple hires or promotes someone who still cares about form, but cares a LOT more about function and practicality.   I think in recent years, Apple has placed form over function far too often.   And in the case of iPhones, it's a sad joke because the phones aren't robust enough to not use a case, which hides the form anyway.    Whenever I see a phone without a case I think, "oh, that's a really nice phone - maybe I should upgrade" and then I discover that it's the phone model I already have. 

    Apple's decision to not let end-users replace the battery or upgrade memory or storage may have been to force people to upgrade their computers more often (and may have been partially caused by the obsession with thinness and no seams in the case), but I think that's going to backfire in the long run.   I think people will upgrade less often because of the cost and Apple might even lose some customers who no longer want to pay what Apple now gets for its laptops, which IMO has ventured into ludicrous territory.
    There’s nothing less “robust” about iPhones. I don’t use a case for my 7 or X unless somewhere where I need one, like the gym etc. 

    As for removable batteries and forced upgrades - that’s nonsense as that wasn’t the intent at all. And to prove that point, Apple devices have a longer useful lifespan than the knockoffs with removable batteries, and higher resale value. 
    watto_cobraracerhomie3
  • Reply 33 of 40
    entropysentropys Posts: 1,890member
    foljs said:
    Jony Ive says Apple has 'energy and vitality' and he is nowhere close to done

    That sounds like what one would say when one doesn't have energy and vitality and are close to done!

    (When you have energy and vitality you don't say it, you prove it by doing)

    Make me no undying vow. Show me now!
    Sing me no song! Read me no rhyme!
    Don't waste my time, Show me!
    Don't talk of June, Don't talk of fall!
    Don't talk at all! Show me!
    Never do I ever want to hear another word.
    There isn't one I haven't heard.
  • Reply 34 of 40
    We just need to know one thing... Does he pronounce it "Joanie" or "Johnny"?
    Johnny
  • Reply 35 of 40
    zoetmb said:
    [...] I think people will upgrade less often because of the cost and Apple might even lose some customers who no longer want to pay what Apple now gets for its laptops, which IMO has ventured into ludicrous territory.
    That's our house. My daughter and wife both need new laptops, but we haven't replaced them because holy price hurt! We could probably get 13" models at a price we're prepared to pay, but they both really want larger screens. I don't blame them. I do, too. Since there's no "affordable" Apple laptop with a 15" screen, we're not sure what to do. We don't want to switch, but damn, the cost of storage in the current crop of Appletops makes my butt pucker.

    My wife and I were also hoping to upgrade our old iPhones this year, but when we saw the price of the XS Max we both burst out laughing! Hopefully the XR will be big enough for our aging eyes, but if not, we're in the same place we are with laptops. We don't WANT to switch, but maybe it's time? We'll see, I guess.
    My very free and very uninformed advice is to WAIT!
    I think that Apple will be expanding on their laptop line with more less expensive consumer grade products.  The MacBook and MacBook Air are both due for updates.   Hopefully they do with these what they have done with their phones and carry a product most any wallet.

    As for the Xr:   It's screen will be bigger than the 8+ was.   Go for it!
    I actually really like the Air, and have encouraged both my wife and daughter to consider it. Both said the same thing: "The screen is too small!"

    For some reason Apple has made 15-inch screens a "premium" feature, only available on the top-tier model. That top-tier model also includes exotica we don't necessarily need, which drives the price up past our tax bracket.
    AI_liasGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 36 of 40
    zoetmb said:
    [...] I think people will upgrade less often because of the cost and Apple might even lose some customers who no longer want to pay what Apple now gets for its laptops, which IMO has ventured into ludicrous territory.
    That's our house. My daughter and wife both need new laptops, but we haven't replaced them because holy price hurt! We could probably get 13" models at a price we're prepared to pay, but they both really want larger screens. I don't blame them. I do, too. Since there's no "affordable" Apple laptop with a 15" screen, we're not sure what to do. We don't want to switch, but damn, the cost of storage in the current crop of Appletops makes my butt pucker.

    My wife and I were also hoping to upgrade our old iPhones this year, but when we saw the price of the XS Max we both burst out laughing! Hopefully the XR will be big enough for our aging eyes, but if not, we're in the same place we are with laptops. We don't WANT to switch, but maybe it's time? We'll see, I guess.
    My very free and very uninformed advice is to WAIT!
    I think that Apple will be expanding on their laptop line with more less expensive consumer grade products.  The MacBook and MacBook Air are both due for updates.   Hopefully they do with these what they have done with their phones and carry a product most any wallet.

    As for the Xr:   It's screen will be bigger than the 8+ was.   Go for it!
    I actually really like the Air, and have encouraged both my wife and daughter to consider it. Both said the same thing: "The screen is too small!"

    For some reason Apple has made 15-inch screens a "premium" feature, only available on the top-tier model. That top-tier model also includes exotica we don't necessarily need, which drives the price up past our tax bracket.
    Couldn't agree more. They should have a base 15" model with no TouchBar (and thicker if necessary for the old 2015 keyboard), at an entry-level price. I got away with ordering the refurbished 13" base model MBP, but I have a 27" external monitor I use for Lightroom and stuff like that. Not everyone has an external monitor. So, yeah, Mr. Ive is not done yet. We need a few downgrades to the Mac line. (I've heard of the new keyboards with the silicone membrane failing also)
  • Reply 37 of 40
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,269member
    zoetmb said:
    [...] I think people will upgrade less often because of the cost and Apple might even lose some customers who no longer want to pay what Apple now gets for its laptops, which IMO has ventured into ludicrous territory.
    That's our house. My daughter and wife both need new laptops, but we haven't replaced them because holy price hurt! We could probably get 13" models at a price we're prepared to pay, but they both really want larger screens. I don't blame them. I do, too. Since there's no "affordable" Apple laptop with a 15" screen, we're not sure what to do. We don't want to switch, but damn, the cost of storage in the current crop of Appletops makes my butt pucker.

    My wife and I were also hoping to upgrade our old iPhones this year, but when we saw the price of the XS Max we both burst out laughing! Hopefully the XR will be big enough for our aging eyes, but if not, we're in the same place we are with laptops. We don't WANT to switch, but maybe it's time? We'll see, I guess.
    My very free and very uninformed advice is to WAIT!
    I think that Apple will be expanding on their laptop line with more less expensive consumer grade products.  The MacBook and MacBook Air are both due for updates.   Hopefully they do with these what they have done with their phones and carry a product most any wallet.

    As for the Xr:   It's screen will be bigger than the 8+ was.   Go for it!
    I actually really like the Air, and have encouraged both my wife and daughter to consider it. Both said the same thing: "The screen is too small!"

    For some reason Apple has made 15-inch screens a "premium" feature, only available on the top-tier model. That top-tier model also includes exotica we don't necessarily need, which drives the price up past our tax bracket.
    Yes, they have gone all out on the high end retina (type) brilliant, sharp displays that drove up the cost.  Fortunately, I suspect the cost of those displays will be coming down as they become more prevalent -- which might give Apple more flexibility in the consumer grade market.

    But, that said, I kind of like the cheaper, more conventional displays that are softer on the eyes.  For me, I tend to be looking at text far more than photos and the older, softer displays are just easier to use for long periods.

    The comparison might be between a Kindle compared to an iPad.  The Kindle's display is no where close to that of the iPad -- yet it works better for reading books.
  • Reply 38 of 40
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,373member
    "because I know that sometimes it does not work out," he continued. The company is known to develop concepts that never see the light of day.
    Like AirPower.

    He looks like something out of Dumb And Dumber in that colour suit.
  • Reply 39 of 40
    Shouldn’t a guy obsessed with making everything thinner, lead by, you know, example?

    ;-)
    He's really packing on the £'s.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 40 of 40
    georgie01 said:
    zoetmb said:
    rain22 said:
    I'm convinced he won't be done until he has a wafer thin iPhone that gets 2 minutes of battery time. 
    Yes.  If he ever goes, I would hope Apple hires or promotes someone who still cares about form, but cares a LOT more about function and practicality.   I think in recent years, Apple has placed form over function far too often.   And in the case of iPhones, it's a sad joke because the phones aren't robust enough to not use a case, which hides the form anyway.    Whenever I see a phone without a case I think, "oh, that's a really nice phone - maybe I should upgrade" and then I discover that it's the phone model I already have. 

    Apple's decision to not let end-users replace the battery or upgrade memory or storage may have been to force people to upgrade their computers more often (and may have been partially caused by the obsession with thinness and no seams in the case), but I think that's going to backfire in the long run.   I think people will upgrade less often because of the cost and Apple might even lose some customers who no longer want to pay what Apple now gets for its laptops, which IMO has ventured into ludicrous territory.
    That is silly and presumptuous. In reality, the XS phones have proven themselves to have excellent function. They have been shown to have excellent battery life relative to other phones (in the majority of tests, and my own experience supports it). They are fast. They have a top notch screen. They have fast LTE internet. In the real world the glass is comparable to other comparable models. They have the most advanced facial recognition and usually the most elegant approach to new technology. Etc. Their ‘function’ is doing fine.

    And I’ve always used my iPhones without a case.
    Probably referring to user interface functionality, as the current clusterf**** is what taints and hampers otherwise excellent design and technological innovation. 
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