I don’t understand why Apple is so slow with international rollouts of new functions.
Apple has always treated their non US customers as second class citizens. That’s not going to change.
How does it benefit Apple to have gov't clearance for the ECG, banks lined up for Apple Pay, or any other features that are fully operational and ready to go and then not offer them to a country where the masses are ready to buy and they have supply on the ready to ship? I can't think of a single, logical business tactic that would make Apple not want to make as much money as possible from Canada.
If Apple put the same effort into getting their services into other countries as they do the USA it would happen a lot quicker than it does.
Yes, regulatory approval etc does take time and laws vary country to country. But there are frequent examples where Apple has been pushing right up to the last minutes to get a new feature ready for approval at launch in the USA and then taking years to make it to other countries.
Lets take Apple Pay Cash as an example, apart from the USA where is it? Apple Pay is heavily supported by UK banks, I don’t think a single major bank does not support it.
But despite the UK being a key market with almost 50% iOS market share there is still no Apple Pay Cash support.
Sure, Apple is certainly working on it. But not with any urgency etc.
I think Apple Pay Cash uses the Discover Network. So that may not be something Apple is allowed to do/use in the UK. Apple may need Visa or Mastercard to get that feature, and they may want to charge a fee to use it where it's FREE to use here and so that is one of the hold ups. Things are not as simple as many people would think they are.
The UK or the EU could always create some new Phone OS and make phones for it and release everything for those phones FIRST for the EU and UK. That would be how it was. You would be focused on your own market first as everyone would expect. I'm all for Apple getting all these features out there as fast as possible, but they have to follow the laws of every country. It really is a global mess that is not going to change any time soon. We still have a growing list of Banks just getting Apple Pay support here.
There are other options besides Apple Pay Cash that also work with Android.
It's amazing that some people actually believe Apple is obstinately refusing to add Apple Pay Cash in the UK when there are only positive reasons with zero hurdles or drawbacks. Not knowing a reason doesn't mean a reason doesn't exist.
No! If I don't personally know why Apple is or is not doing a thing, or when they are or are not doing a thing, it means that they are lazy and/or arrogant, and completely at fault for disrupting my desires and world views!
...so sayeth the haters. Once they try their hand at running a business or building a product from the ground-up, they may realize nothing (nothing!) is ever as simple as it sounds.
“The feature is available in the United States after the U.S. Food and Drug Administration cleared it for sale, making the smartwatch the first consumer device to do so without requiring medical review.”
Alivecore has the Kardia ECG that works very well and was approved by medical review. I imagine if one was truly concerned about their heart they would go with this device that is far more accurate, vastly less expensive, integrated with real-time medical review by doctors, or transmitted to you own. Even comes with a clip to fit to your smartphone.
https://www.alivecor.com They also support the iwatch.
The watch probably isn’t accurate enough to pass medical review - thus the legal tie-up in other countries, not so much for the feature, but the ‘marketing’ aspect of it being a medical device.
Neither are as good as an 8 point lead at a hospital - but can indicate something isn’t right with rhythm.
What a load of nonsense, per usual.
- I don't see why the Alivecore portable finger-based ECG would be any more accurate. What is your evidence? - its $100, not "vastly less expensive" - it also costs $10/mo for unlimited cloud storage of results - but it's also a single-purpose device, and requires carrying around, making it less useful than an ECG already in your daily watch - yes, the Apple Watch ECG is accurate enough to "pass medical review" - you can transmit your Apple Watch ECG to your doctor - there is no such thing as an iwatch.
...you could at least try, you know.
- 2 leads with larger surface area for 4 points of contact (2 fingers each hand) vs 1 small lead on wrist = better results all day long, regardless of algorithmic interpretation. - $100 vs ~$800 = vastly - The Kardia is small and thin and comes with a phone clip, or it fits in a wallet = not less useful, maybe less convenient. - Not disputing the watch doesn't have it's place - but it hasn't passed a medical review in Canada, so you can't state that it is accurate enough. A lot of medical professionals don't agree that the Kardia is accurate enough - but may serve as an initial monitor of potential MI or arrhythmia. - Alivecore software handles the data, and yes it supports the Apple Watch.
Explain how the Apple Watch is the "first consumer device...", yet it isn't. Unless you factor in there is no medical review. Yet the Kardia was approved with a medical review. Can't have it both ways.
I don’t understand why Apple is so slow with international rollouts of new functions.
Typically the problem is not Apple, it’s that each country has its own rules and bureaucracies to wade through. Who knows what’s really happening here. I know that I don’t often trust government workers to have a solid handle on what’s going on.
Canada is probably holding out for Blackberries version. :-)
Ironically, Blackberry devices are far more popular in Asian countries than Canada.
The version with '-K-', more commonly used in American English than in British English, is an early-20th-century loanword from the German acronym EKG for Elektrokardiogramm (electrocardiogram),[1]which reflects that German physicians were pioneers in the field at the time. Today AMA style and – under its stylistic influence – most American medical publications use ECG instead of EKG.[2] The German term Elektrokardiogramm as well as the English equivalent, electrocardiogram, consist of the New Latin/international scientific vocabulary elements elektro- (cognate electro-) and kardi- (cognate 'cardi-'), the latter from Greek kardia (heart).[3] The '-K-' version is more often retained under circumstances where there may be verbal confusion between ECG and EEG (electroencephalography) due to similar pronunciation.
I don’t understand why Apple is so slow with international rollouts of new functions.
Apple has always treated their non US customers as second class citizens. That’s not going to change.
How does it benefit Apple to have gov't clearance for the ECG, banks lined up for Apple Pay, or any other features that are fully operational and ready to go and then not offer them to a country where the masses are ready to buy and they have supply on the ready to ship? I can't think of a single, logical business tactic that would make Apple not want to make as much money as possible from Canada.
If Apple put the same effort into getting their services into other countries as they do the USA it would happen a lot quicker than it does.
Yes, regulatory approval etc does take time and laws vary country to country. But there are frequent examples where Apple has been pushing right up to the last minutes to get a new feature ready for approval at launch in the USA and then taking years to make it to other countries.
Lets take Apple Pay Cash as an example, apart from the USA where is it? Apple Pay is heavily supported by UK banks, I don’t think a single major bank does not support it.
But despite the UK being a key market with almost 50% iOS market share there is still no Apple Pay Cash support.
Sure, Apple is certainly working on it. But not with any urgency etc.
I'm sure it's true that if Apple put the same effort in it would happen faster -- but why should they? Like every other company, they also have a budget which means they likely budgeted approvals over at least several years.
As for Apple Pay, we vacationed in several "Eastern Europe" countries in 2017 and found them far ahead of the US accepting Apple Pay, including accepting payment via the Apple Watch.
“The feature is available in the United States after the U.S. Food and Drug Administration cleared it for sale, making the smartwatch the first consumer device to do so without requiring medical review.”
Alivecore has the Kardia ECG that works very well and was approved by medical review. I imagine if one was truly concerned about their heart they would go with this device that is far more accurate, vastly less expensive, integrated with real-time medical review by doctors, or transmitted to you own. Even comes with a clip to fit to your smartphone.
https://www.alivecor.com They also support the iwatch.
The watch probably isn’t accurate enough to pass medical review - thus the legal tie-up in other countries, not so much for the feature, but the ‘marketing’ aspect of it being a medical device.
Neither are as good as an 8 point lead at a hospital - but can indicate something isn’t right with rhythm.
“The feature is available in the United States after the U.S. Food and Drug Administration cleared it for sale, making the smartwatch the first consumer device to do so without requiring medical review.”
Alivecore has the Kardia ECG that works very well and was approved by medical review. I imagine if one was truly concerned about their heart they would go with this device that is far more accurate, vastly less expensive, integrated with real-time medical review by doctors, or transmitted to you own. Even comes with a clip to fit to your smartphone.
https://www.alivecor.com They also support the iwatch.
The watch probably isn’t accurate enough to pass medical review - thus the legal tie-up in other countries, not so much for the feature, but the ‘marketing’ aspect of it being a medical device.
Neither are as good as an 8 point lead at a hospital - but can indicate something isn’t right with rhythm.
“The feature is available in the United States after the U.S. Food and Drug Administration cleared it for sale, making the smartwatch the first consumer device to do so without requiring medical review.”
Alivecore has the Kardia ECG that works very well and was approved by medical review. I imagine if one was truly concerned about their heart they would go with this device that is far more accurate, vastly less expensive, integrated with real-time medical review by doctors, or transmitted to you own. Even comes with a clip to fit to your smartphone.
https://www.alivecor.com They also support the iwatch.
The watch probably isn’t accurate enough to pass medical review - thus the legal tie-up in other countries, not so much for the feature, but the ‘marketing’ aspect of it being a medical device.
Neither are as good as an 8 point lead at a hospital - but can indicate something isn’t right with rhythm.
What a load of nonsense, per usual.
- I don't see why the Alivecore portable finger-based ECG would be any more accurate. What is your evidence? - its $100, not "vastly less expensive" - it also costs $10/mo for unlimited cloud storage of results - but it's also a single-purpose device, and requires carrying around, making it less useful than an ECG already in your daily watch - yes, the Apple Watch ECG is accurate enough to "pass medical review" - you can transmit your Apple Watch ECG to your doctor - there is no such thing as an iwatch.
...you could at least try, you know.
- 2 leads with larger surface area for 4 points of contact (2 fingers each hand) vs 1 small lead on wrist = better results all day long, regardless of algorithmic interpretation. - $100 vs ~$800 = vastly - The Kardia is small and thin and comes with a phone clip, or it fits in a wallet = not less useful, maybe less convenient. - Not disputing the watch doesn't have it's place - but it hasn't passed a medical review in Canada, so you can't state that it is accurate enough. A lot of medical professionals don't agree that the Kardia is accurate enough - but may serve as an initial monitor of potential MI or arrhythmia. - Alivecore software handles the data, and yes it supports the Apple Watch.
Explain how the Apple Watch is the "first consumer device...", yet it isn't. Unless you factor in there is no medical review. Yet the Kardia was approved with a medical review. Can't have it both ways.
Try harder to troll me man...
Another daft post. Please stop embarrassing yourself.
- What is your empirical evidence for this - AW4 with ECG capability starts at $399 - Useful for ECG, not much else; and you agree that it’s less convenient - The fact that it hasn’t passed medical review in Canada says zilch. Zero. Zip. It has passed FDA review. That’s pretty much the gold standard globally. If anything, the FDA is regularly accused of being too slow and too cautious in granting approvals. You can look that up. - Apple is often not first. Usually, it’s the best. (I’ll admit that AppleTV is a sad exception)
There’s a reason that so much innovation happens in the US, and comparatively smaller amounts elsewhere (incl. Canada). The rest of the world (perhaps with the exception of the UK) is one large bureaucracy.
Only Apple knows for sure, but I can think of several possible reasons the EKG feature isn't approved/available in Canada.
Medicine is understandably highly regulated. on top of that, each country's regulations are unique and different. Navigating the regulations needed to approve such a feature in the US is a monumental task. Doing so in 2 countries is that much more difficult. I imagine there are similarities between the US and Canadian regulatory systems, but who knows? Apple may well have decided early on to focus resources on one country.
Apple may well be using the American market to gather data for a submission for approval in other countries like Canada.
The Canadian source may have no clue what they're talking about.
Apple may not give a rip about Canadians and has absolutely no plans to introduce it.
Canadian's physiology is altered by the cold weather so the apple watch won't work.
Apple may be working on an application for approval as we speak
Apple already submitted an application but it got lost in the Canadian bureaucracy.
Ok, a couple of those are whacked up, but you get the idea.
Only Apple knows for sure, but I can think of several possible reasons the EKG feature isn't approved/available in Canada.
Medicine is understandably highly regulated. on top of that, each country's regulations are unique and different. Navigating the regulations needed to approve such a feature in the US is a monumental task. Doing so in 2 countries is that much more difficult. I imagine there are similarities between the US and Canadian regulatory systems, but who knows? Apple may well have decided early on to focus resources on one country.
Apple may well be using the American market to gather data for a submission for approval in other countries like Canada.
The Canadian source may have no clue what they're talking about.
Apple may not give a rip about Canadians and has absolutely no plans to introduce it.
Canadian's physiology is altered by the cold weather so the apple watch won't work.
Apple may be working on an application for approval as we speak
Apple already submitted an application but it got lost in the Canadian bureaucracy.
Ok, a couple of those are whacked up, but you get the idea.
Apple is having trouble converting imperial heart rates to metric (they tried the "double it and add thirty" method but it didn't work).
The low Canadian heart rate, combined with fluctuations in relative rates worldwide, makes it harder to calibrate the device outside the USA. Right now the Canadian heart rate is only about .75US.
Canada's Prime Minister thinks health warnings are a form of body shaming and is offended by them.
Trump is threatening to impose a 25% tariff on every heart beat transmitted to a US-based server.
Apple started to negotiate about bringing Apple Pay to Czech republic in spring 2018. Before that no one was open to discuss with Czech banks. Czech banks were willing to start the implementation much earlier, but Apple didn’t want to... so yes, it is Apple who is slow in adopting their services to the new markets. And for those who doubt - Czech republic has more than 95% of POS terminals ready for contactless payments (thus supporting Apple Pay) for more than 3 years... so retailers and even vending machines are ready much longer than Apple is... and therefore we don’t need any explicit list of supporting merchants, you simply come and pay...
Only Apple knows for sure, but I can think of several possible reasons the EKG feature isn't approved/available in Canada.
Medicine is understandably highly regulated. on top of that, each country's regulations are unique and different. Navigating the regulations needed to approve such a feature in the US is a monumental task. Doing so in 2 countries is that much more difficult. I imagine there are similarities between the US and Canadian regulatory systems, but who knows? Apple may well have decided early on to focus resources on one country.
Apple may well be using the American market to gather data for a submission for approval in other countries like Canada.
The Canadian source may have no clue what they're talking about.
Apple may not give a rip about Canadians and has absolutely no plans to introduce it.
Canadian's physiology is altered by the cold weather so the apple watch won't work.
Apple may be working on an application for approval as we speak
Apple already submitted an application but it got lost in the Canadian bureaucracy.
Ok, a couple of those are whacked up, but you get the idea.
The United States is Apple’s largest and primary market. It’s not hard to imagine that they would want to get approvals and introduce new products or features in the US first. Consider how well it would go if the ECG feature were available in Canada but not the US. That’s a much larger group of customers who would be peeved.
Also, it’s not hard to figure that getting medical approval for a device is exceptionally complicated. Better to get their largest market checked off and done first. It’s possible that different countries’ requirements could necessitate additional tweaks to the device. Apple’s going to want those things to be added on to whatever gets approved in the US, rather than risking doing something for Canadian or Latvian approval that then makes it harder or impossible to get US approval. The US market has to be their baseline for something like that, so it’s going to be first.
Comments
No! If I don't personally know why Apple is or is not doing a thing, or when they are or are not doing a thing, it means that they are lazy and/or arrogant, and completely at fault for disrupting my desires and world views!
...so sayeth the haters. Once they try their hand at running a business or building a product from the ground-up, they may realize nothing (nothing!) is ever as simple as it sounds.
- $100 vs ~$800 = vastly
- The Kardia is small and thin and comes with a phone clip, or it fits in a wallet = not less useful, maybe less convenient.
- Not disputing the watch doesn't have it's place - but it hasn't passed a medical review in Canada, so you can't state that it is accurate enough. A lot of medical professionals don't agree that the Kardia is accurate enough - but may serve as an initial monitor of potential MI or arrhythmia.
- Alivecore software handles the data, and yes it supports the Apple Watch.
Explain how the Apple Watch is the "first consumer device...", yet it isn't. Unless you factor in there is no medical review. Yet the Kardia was approved with a medical review.
Can't have it both ways.
Try harder to troll me man...
https://globalnews.ca/news/3084366/q-a-how-long-are-medical-wait-times-in-canada-by-province-and-procedure/
Ironically, Blackberry devices are far more popular in Asian countries than Canada.
From Wikipedia...
As for Apple Pay, we vacationed in several "Eastern Europe" countries in 2017 and found them far ahead of the US accepting Apple Pay, including accepting payment via the Apple Watch.
- What is your empirical evidence for this
- AW4 with ECG capability starts at $399
- Useful for ECG, not much else; and you agree that it’s less convenient
- The fact that it hasn’t passed medical review in Canada says zilch. Zero. Zip. It has passed FDA review. That’s pretty much the gold standard globally. If anything, the FDA is regularly accused of being too slow and too cautious in granting approvals. You can look that up.
- Apple is often not first. Usually, it’s the best. (I’ll admit that AppleTV is a sad exception)
There’s a reason that so much innovation happens in the US, and comparatively smaller amounts elsewhere (incl. Canada). The rest of the world (perhaps with the exception of the UK) is one large bureaucracy.
Medicine is understandably highly regulated. on top of that, each country's regulations are unique and different. Navigating the regulations needed to approve such a feature in the US is a monumental task. Doing so in 2 countries is that much more difficult. I imagine there are similarities between the US and Canadian regulatory systems, but who knows? Apple may well have decided early on to focus resources on one country.
Apple may well be using the American market to gather data for a submission for approval in other countries like Canada.
The Canadian source may have no clue what they're talking about.
Apple may not give a rip about Canadians and has absolutely no plans to introduce it.
Canadian's physiology is altered by the cold weather so the apple watch won't work.
Apple may be working on an application for approval as we speak
Apple already submitted an application but it got lost in the Canadian bureaucracy.
Ok, a couple of those are whacked up, but you get the idea.
The low Canadian heart rate, combined with fluctuations in relative rates worldwide, makes it harder to calibrate the device outside the USA. Right now the Canadian heart rate is only about .75US.
Canada's Prime Minister thinks health warnings are a form of body shaming and is offended by them.
Trump is threatening to impose a 25% tariff on every heart beat transmitted to a US-based server.
Also, it’s not hard to figure that getting medical approval for a device is exceptionally complicated. Better to get their largest market checked off and done first. It’s possible that different countries’ requirements could necessitate additional tweaks to the device. Apple’s going to want those things to be added on to whatever gets approved in the US, rather than risking doing something for Canadian or Latvian approval that then makes it harder or impossible to get US approval. The US market has to be their baseline for something like that, so it’s going to be first.