iPhone Face ID not fooled in fake head test as Android rivals fail

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 83
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,464member
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    So, your point is that Apple should not have implemented FaceID.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 22 of 83
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,112member
    Apple never said TouchID was insecure (no company in their right mind would call its entire product line ‘insecure’) rather, they simply said FaceID was more secure. 

    TouchID on my 6s is very reliable, but moisture and other issues can bugger it up. most reports I’ve seen say FaceID is faster and more reliable, as long as your Face is visible to ID. 

    I suspect the the impetus for FaceID was the screen size combined with technical difficulties. I’ve seen reports of ultrasound fingerprint sensing trough the screen. Apple may have decided that was not reliable enough or there may have been patent/IP issues as well. If/when they come out it will be interesting. To see how well they work. 
    StrangeDayswilliamlondon
  • Reply 23 of 83
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,038member
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    So, your point is that Apple should not have implemented FaceID.
    You don't actually read what I post do you, instead trying to imagine something to disagree with, find some hidden meaning? Please read post#2 and post#6
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 24 of 83
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    So, your point is that Apple should not have implemented FaceID.
    You don't actually read what I post do you, instead trying to imagine something to disagree with, find some hidden meaning? Please read post#2 and post#6
    Wow, someone is trying REALLY HARD to troll, and failing miserably at it...
    StrangeDaysradarthekatwilliamlondon
  • Reply 25 of 83
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    Is every week "exceedingly rare"? I know you don't use these products despite the constant pearl clutching, but if you did you'd know Touch ID is very sensitive to wet fingers. Put down a cold beer bottle with condensation and guess what? Your fingers are too wet for Touch ID. Rinse hands while cooking, etc... Many plausible use cases.

    No, I don't think any of us do have a concern about Touch ID security -- which is why we didn't bring it up. You did, in your strange tangent implying that Face ID was designed for improved security. It is more secure, but that's just an extra benefit. The primary reason for its existence is to save space, and doing so via Face ID was preferred to under-screen sensors as Apple engineering has commented about in the past. 
    edited December 2018 williamlondon
  • Reply 26 of 83
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,038member
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    So, your point is that Apple should not have implemented FaceID.
    You don't actually read what I post do you, instead trying to imagine something to disagree with, find some hidden meaning? Please read post#2 and post#6
    Wow, someone is trying REALLY HARD to troll, and failing miserably at it...
    ...and I wish he wouldn't. It just distracts from the discussion. 
  • Reply 27 of 83
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    So, your point is that Apple should not have implemented FaceID.
    You don't actually read what I post do you, instead trying to imagine something to disagree with, find some hidden meaning? Please read post#2 and post#6
    Wow, someone is trying REALLY HARD to troll, and failing miserably at it...
    ...and I wish he wouldn't. It just distracts from the discussion. 
    Yeah no. It's you. As usual. You rush to clutch at your peals at perceived or suggested problems with Apple design decisions, like this silly discussion and your simulated concern about why Apple felt the need to implement Face ID if nobody was complaining about Touch ID security.

    Anything to distract from the fact that your shitty google-powered knockoffs suck, yet again. 
    edited December 2018 AppleExposedwilliamlondon
  • Reply 28 of 83
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,038member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    So, your point is that Apple should not have implemented FaceID.
    You don't actually read what I post do you, instead trying to imagine something to disagree with, find some hidden meaning? Please read post#2 and post#6
    Wow, someone is trying REALLY HARD to troll, and failing miserably at it...
    ...and I wish he wouldn't. It just distracts from the discussion. 
    Yeah no. It's you. As usual. You rush to clutch at your peals at perceived or suggested problems with Apple design decisions, like this silly discussion and your simulated concern about why Apple felt the need to implement Face ID if nobody was complaining about Touch ID security.

    Anything to distract from the fact that your shitty off-brand knockoffs suck, yet again. 
    I'm not out to insult anyone. You on the other hand still not reading my posts, but taking the time anyway to troll me with weird claims that I'm excusing Android OEM's IMO silly face detection features and "concerned" about Apple? Read more, troll less. Start with post 2 and the added clarification in post 6 for those who were initially confused by what I meant. I'm also not using any "off-brand knockoffs" nor encouraging anyone else to either so perhaps in your haste to play a round of "Gotcha" you've confused me with someone else. 

    Don't feed into another thread going off the rails by resorting to unhelpful personal stuff. I've seen you at your best when explaining how things work and offering opinion on patents and taxes. You do so so much better when you avoid the ad-homes and such and just try to be helpful with intelligent and thoughtful replies. 
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 29 of 83
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    So, your point is that Apple should not have implemented FaceID.
    You don't actually read what I post do you, instead trying to imagine something to disagree with, find some hidden meaning? Please read post#2 and post#6

    The sheer irony of this statement....
    radarthekatwilliamlondon
  • Reply 30 of 83
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,318member
    This is as embarrassing and as predictable as the prior generations of iPhone knockoffs that could be fooled with a photo.

    There's no more proof than this repeated pattern that these copycats just don't get security well enough to do it correctly. They are only concerned with following Apple and pretending to be "good enough". 
    It isn't embarrassing at all.

    The first thing that should have been done was to choose phones that can use Face biometrics to authorise payments.

    Biometrics offer varied functionality. One of those areas is security but it is not the only one. Convenience and flexibility are others.

    Some might say that just having the option on the LG gives it a leg up on the non-X iPhones. Clearly the option itself was never even offered as a security feature in the first place. Hence the very clear warning to that effect on activating the feature. They understand security perfectly.

    What is important, at least IMO, is that the user can decide how secure the phone can be and the balance between security and convenience.

    And let's not forget that the G7 sells for less than half the price of an XS.

    It would have been more interesting to see the model head tried on Android phones that do have 3D depth sensing.

    In the meantime, if you pay 400 dollars for a phone with secure biometrics (secure enough to authorise payments) and still have the convenience of face unlock, that's a great deal. Not embarrassing in the slightest.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 31 of 83
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 584unconfirmed, member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    So, your point is that Apple should not have implemented FaceID.
    You don't actually read what I post do you, instead trying to imagine something to disagree with, find some hidden meaning? Please read post#2 and post#6
    Wow, someone is trying REALLY HARD to troll, and failing miserably at it...
    ...and I wish he wouldn't. It just distracts from the discussion. 
    Yeah no. It's you. As usual. You rush to clutch at your peals at perceived or suggested problems with Apple design decisions, like this silly discussion and your simulated concern about why Apple felt the need to implement Face ID if nobody was complaining about Touch ID security.

    Anything to distract from the fact that your shitty off-brand knockoffs suck, yet again. 
    I'm not out to insult anyone. You on the other hand still not reading my posts, but taking the time anyway to troll me with weird claims that I'm excusing Android OEM's silly face detection features and "concerned" about Apple? Read more, troll less. Start with post 2 and the added clarification in post 6 for those that were initially confused by what I meant.
    Read post #11.

    He beat me to it. Apple showed statistics and how FaceID is in fact safer.
  • Reply 32 of 83
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,038member
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
     The primary reason for its existence is to save space, and doing so via Face ID was preferred to under-screen sensors as Apple engineering has commented about in the past. 
    Gosh, exactly what I said from the get-go. So what are you disagreeing with?
  • Reply 33 of 83
    Something something ‘only dummies use Android’.
  • Reply 34 of 83
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,038member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:

    airnerd said:
    gatorguy said:
    jdb8167 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Huh? Apple has repeatedly claimed that Face ID is more secure than Touch ID. And it works great especially with the new iPad Pro. More than marketing. I haven’t seen an assessment of the security of the new under-screen fingerprint sensors but they are likely somewhat compromised compared to Touch ID 
    Apple has never ever even IMPLIED that TouchID is at all insecure, and its users weren't complaining about it either so there was no demand for something else.
    No, IMO rather than for security itself the reason Apple went to FaceID was to allow for a larger screen which is something some percentage of Apple buyers were wanting. 

    As for the "marketing" comment I made I menat Android OEM's doing so for that reason.
    For me the benefit is that face ID works much more reliably.  No longer do I have to deal with not being able to get my phone unlocked quickly because i have a wet thumb, just put hand lotion on, the button has a smudge from the last unlock, I'm wearing gloves, etc.  I pick my phone up and it knows who I am with or without my glasses, or sunglasses.

    So for me at least, the product is much more user friendly.  That's the goal of devices like phones...to just work.  
    Yup. I have Touch ID on my iPad, Face ID on my iPhone, and guess which I have more issues with? Moisture on finger on the Touch ID.
    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    So, your point is that Apple should not have implemented FaceID.
    You don't actually read what I post do you, instead trying to imagine something to disagree with, find some hidden meaning? Please read post#2 and post#6
    Wow, someone is trying REALLY HARD to troll, and failing miserably at it...
    ...and I wish he wouldn't. It just distracts from the discussion. 
    Yeah no. It's you. As usual. You rush to clutch at your peals at perceived or suggested problems with Apple design decisions, like this silly discussion and your simulated concern about why Apple felt the need to implement Face ID if nobody was complaining about Touch ID security.

    Anything to distract from the fact that your shitty off-brand knockoffs suck, yet again. 
    I'm not out to insult anyone. You on the other hand still not reading my posts, but taking the time anyway to troll me with weird claims that I'm excusing Android OEM's silly face detection features and "concerned" about Apple? Read more, troll less. Start with post 2 and the added clarification in post 6 for those that were initially confused by what I meant.
    Read post #11.

    He beat me to it. Apple showed statistics and how FaceID is in fact safer.
    I've never disputed it is, nor was I referring to Apple when I referred to "marketing".  Post 6. Again. 
  • Reply 35 of 83
    Unfortunately, Apple loses again. Most consumers in the world are willing to settle for a $200 cheaper Android smartphone which has less security than an iPhone. Nothing is going to change that. Apple will continue to sell fewer iPhones while increasing prices each and every year. Fewer people will ever get to try the more secure Face ID, especially while the sensors are housed in the infamous (hated) display notch because they don't want to pay the high cost of an iPhone. Apple keeps going down the least favored path by consumers. Apparently, Apple isn't able to sell enough iPhones to satisfy anyone and everyone says iPhones are too expensive. This is a lose-lose situation even if iPhones are more secure using Face ID. Apple put a lot of work and effort into Face ID and yet people hate it. That's just human nature, I suppose.

    High Android smartphone sales combined with their overall market share percentage are absolutely crushing Apple into a poorly valued mess of a company. Why? Because consumers aren't buying enough iPhones for various reasons. Face ID (or any security feature) is so low on consumers' minds it simply doesn't even matter. This facial recognition test being won by Apple isn't going to boost iPhone sales. A cheaper Android smartphone with weaker security will easily win in unit sales. Lower cost always beats higher security when it comes to selling to consumers. I can only hope Apple realizes this before the company value drops to half the value it was a couple of months ago.
    edited December 2018 williamlondon
  • Reply 36 of 83
    dewmedewme Posts: 1,946member
    gatorguy said:

    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    I only have issues with Touch ID in instances where you'd expect the fingerprint reader to struggle, like overly wet, overly dry, or dirty fingers. However, Touch ID is nearly useless for my wife because she always pokes the home button with the end of her finger, rather quickly I might add. Because of this, Touch ID only works about 10% of the time for her. What can I say? For her, entering the pass code works fine so there's no reason to waste time learning a new way to do the same old thing. For some folks, Touch ID is simply a shiny trim ring around the home button that makes the phone look a bit nicer.

    The thing we, technology fanatics, often overlook are the subtle "accommodations" that takes place between us and our technology devices. We really want the technology to work for us. We absolutely will adapt our behavior, perhaps unknowingly, to help make it work. Rather than poking at the home button like we so a keyboard key, an adding machine button, an old touch tone telephone keypad, or every iPhone/iPad/iPod that does not have Touch ID, we modify our previously learned behaviors to accommodate the needs of our shiny new devices. For Touch ID equipped iPhones this means carefully placing our registered finger on the home button and letting it linger there for a few tenths of a second or longer to allow the fingerprint reader to work. If it stumbles, we try to save it by using a different finger or maybe wiping off the sensor. Whatever it takes, we'll keep trying to make it happy. In essence the machine has subtly trained us to comply with its behaviors and limitations, and we dutifully adapt to whatever changes are required to keep our devices happy. Maybe we do this just to maintain a good relationship with our devices or maybe we do it because that's what we've always had to do when adopting new technology.

    Face ID is far less demanding of us and requires fewer accommodations. It seems to work almost all of the time. If it doesn't work, say because I am wearing a ski mask or welding helmet, I'll gladly take them off just so it can work. If I was desperate I suppose I could, OMG, enter the pass code. So primitive. My experience with Face ID is that it almost works too well. There are times when I really don't want it to unlock my device even though I'm looking at it. For example, right before I slide my iPhone into my pocket I tend to peek at it to see whether the screen is turned off so I don't pocket dial someone. But looking at it makes matters worse by unlocking the phone, unless I only glance askew at the face of the phone. Disabling the "raise to unlock" feature alleviates this issue but now I have to touch the phone to unlock it. Touch ID didn't surprise me quite so often, other than occasionally summoning Siri if I pressed too hard or too long on the home button.

    No technology is perfect, but it doesn't have to be. We will adapt.

    edited December 2018 radarthekat
  • Reply 37 of 83
    Apple put a lot of work and effort into Face ID and yet people hate it. That's just human nature, I suppose.
    Where is the evidence that people hate Face ID?
    gmgravytrain said:
    Face ID (or any security feature) is so low on consumers' minds it simply doesn't even matter. 
    I'm confused. People hate it but in "consumers' (sic) minds it simply doesn't even matter"? Which is it?
    gmgravytrain said:
    High Android smartphone sales combined with their overall market share percentage are absolutely crushing Apple into a poorly valued mess of a company.
    Marketshare doesn't seem to be helping Google's stock value. Is Google also "a poorly valued mess of a company"? How about Amazon, which you're always pumping, where the stock is down almost 50% from just a couple months ago?
    williamlondon
  • Reply 38 of 83
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,038member
    dewme said:
    gatorguy said:

    How often do you really have TouchID problems tho? I presume they are exceedingly rare. 

    Security-wise I doubt there is a single member here concerned about TouchID on any of their devices being insecure or exposing them to unlocks by a thief, friend, family member, or random stranger.
    I only have issues with Touch ID in instances where you'd expect the fingerprint reader to struggle, like overly wet, overly dry, or dirty fingers. However, Touch ID is nearly useless for my wife because she always pokes the home button with the end of her finger, rather quickly I might add. Because of this, Touch ID only works about 10% of the time for her. What can I say? For her, entering the pass code works fine so there's no reason to waste time learning a new way to do the same old thing. For some folks, Touch ID is simply a shiny trim ring around the home button that makes the phone look a bit nicer.

    The thing we, technology fanatics, often overlook are the subtle "accommodations" that takes place between us and our technology devices. We really want the technology to work for us. We absolutely will adapt our behavior, perhaps unknowingly, to help make it work. Rather than poking at the home button like we so a keyboard key, an adding machine button, an old touch tone telephone keypad, or every iPhone/iPad/iPod that does not have Touch ID, we modify our previously learned behaviors to accommodate the needs of our shiny new devices. For Touch ID equipped iPhones this means carefully placing our registered finger on the home button and letting it linger there for a few tenths of a second or longer to allow the fingerprint reader to work. If it stumbles, we try to save it by using a different finger or maybe wiping off the sensor. Whatever it takes, we'll keep trying to make it happy. In essence the machine has subtly trained us to comply with its behaviors and limitations, and we dutifully adapt to whatever changes are required to keep our devices happy. Maybe we do this just to maintain a good relationship with our devices or maybe we do it because that's what we've always had to do when adopting new technology.

    Face ID is far less demanding of us and requires fewer accommodations. It seems to work almost all of the time. If it doesn't work, say because I am wearing a ski mask or welding helmet, I'll gladly take them off just so it can work. If I was desperate I suppose I could, OMG, enter the pass code. So primitive. My experience with Face ID is that it almost works too well. There are times when I really don't want it to unlock my device even though I'm looking at it. For example, right before I slide my iPhone into my pocket I tend to peek at it to see whether the screen is turned off so I don't pocket dial someone. But looking at it makes matters worse by unlocking the phone, unless I only glance askew at the face of the phone. Disabling the "raise to unlock" feature alleviates this issue but now I have to touch the phone to unlock it. Touch ID didn't surprise me quite so often, other than occasionally summoning Siri if I pressed too hard or too long on the home button.

    No technology is perfect, but it doesn't have to be. We will adapt.

    Thanks! Great observations. 
  • Reply 39 of 83
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    Wouldn’t it be cool to have both Touch ID and Face ID as sort of an “MFA”, if you wanted it?

    I imagine in the future Apple will offer both once the in screen finger print scanning works more reliably. At that point it might be an option to have 3 different unlock methods on the device.
  • Reply 40 of 83
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,973moderator
    gatorguy said:
    Fingerprint ID has always been considered secure so why the rush to go to FaceID? It seems as tho Apple went down that road in order to increase the screen size with under/in-screen TouchID not yet workable. Me-too Android stuff is silly IMHO.

    If it wasn't broken (as in insecure), and they can build a near-bevelless smartphone by using new tech that allows for under-screen fingerprint sensing why even bother with face-scanning? Marketing I suppose. 
    FaceID, according to Apple, is some 20x less likely to give a false positive from within the general populace.  Yeah, I get that 1 in 50,000 (TouchID) is already likely sufficiently secure, but why not go with a 1 in 1,000,000 method that also allows a larger display on the same size device (higher screen to handset ratio)?
    williamlondon
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