Calm down Susan. Your all caps emphasis does not add gravitas to your rant. Return it until you get a good one is not a solution to the issue. It's a remedy for one person's bent iPad. It's not a solution to the issue of the bending. There's a difference. Might I suggest you project your insecurities elsewhere. How the hell would I get 15 minutes of fame from this? You sound unhinged.
Right... you spent more time fabricating perceived "issues" I have instead of addressing my points, and of many others challenging you. That pretty much validate's your agenda.
I'm not defending Apple. I'm defending common sense. If something - anything - one buys from any company is not to their "standards", return it and move on. That is the solution for everything. Why you feel Apple needs to somehow do an extra step beyond is just nonsense. Maybe you need a hug as well?
Apple states that they have a 400-micron tolerance. That's .012 inches. Not perceivable as far as I'm concerned to the human eye. This bend shown on AI's photos obviously is beyond those tolerances so it's perfectly acceptable to return it. If a company sees an abnormally large number of returns for this kind of problem, they that means they will most likely change whatever manufacturing process to address it. That's common sense, but apparently not to you.
People like you would find some ambulance-chasing law firm and sue Apple for millions of dollars for perceived "suffering" because of nonsense like this. It's not like the consumer is forced into keeping a defective unit, yet here we are explaining to people like you how ridiculous your position is.
Such nonsense response for a $1000 device. Your "production standards" are too low if a bent product exceeds your standards.
"We don't ship junk" Steve Jobs
Predictable that this thread would attract all the new 1st post trolls, without a fucking thing of insight to add.
You really think the new iPad is "junk"? It's probably the most impressive product Apple has ever made. We live in an age where there's tons of assholes and trolls with nothing better to do than to obsess over anything Apple releases to try and come out with the next "gate" and proclaim that the company is finished. Even these "bent" iPads are imperceptible during actual usage, and the only people who really pretend to give a shit are those are fantasize about Apple being wiped out of existence anyway. Steve shipped alot more "junk" than this iPad.
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
RETURNED THE DARN BEND THINGY, now go somewhere ie Microsoft or Google thingy....be done w it...you cry baby
Your reaction is extreme too.All companies’ products can have issues. Do Ferraris have no issues just because they are ‘premium’.
Exactly, but the “issue” is how you deal with it. I wonder if Ferrari would tell a customer not satisfied with fit & finish that it’s not an “issue” for them.
What customer has Apple told that to? Who was refused a right to return? Be specific.
Calm down Susan. Your all caps emphasis does not add gravitas to your rant. Return it until you get a good one is not a solution to the issue. It's a remedy for one person's bent iPad. It's not a solution to the issue of the bending. There's a difference. Might I suggest you project your insecurities elsewhere. How the hell would I get 15 minutes of fame from this? You sound unhinged.
Right... you spent more time fabricating perceived "issues" I have instead of addressing my points, and of many others challenging you. That pretty much validate's your agenda.
I'm not defending Apple. I'm defending common sense. If something - anything - one buys from any company is not to their "standards", return it and move on. That is the solution for everything. Why you feel Apple needs to somehow do an extra step beyond is just nonsense. Maybe you need a hug as well?
Apple states that they have a 400-micron tolerance. That's .012 inches. Not perceivable as far as I'm concerned to the human eye. This bend shown on AI's photos obviously is beyond those tolerances so it's perfectly acceptable to return it. If a company sees an abnormally large number of returns for this kind of problem, they that means they will most likely change whatever manufacturing process to address it. That's common sense, but apparently not to you.
People like you would find some ambulance-chasing law firm and sue Apple for millions of dollars for perceived "suffering" because of nonsense like this. It's not like the consumer is forced into keeping a defective unit, yet here we are explaining to people like you how ridiculous your position is.
You sure get hostile whenever you think someone is being unfair to Apple, don't you? What's "ridiculous" is you, me, or anyone else believing our own position on any given subject is so solid that there's no room for differing views on at least parts of it.
Returning something that isn't up to my standards is easy, but wouldn't you rather not be bothered with that? Wouldn't it be nice to know that the one you order will be ready for you to use, instead of you having to wait while it goes back and then a new one is sent out? What if the new one is bent, too?
"Just return it" ignores the impact Apple's abysmal PR has on consumer brand confidence. Dan said only that the spec is tighter than last year, while not addressing the reports of bad units in the wild at all. That creates FUD for both consumers and investors. So the Tender one is right. "Just return it" isn't good enough. This is another example of Apple's refusal to communicate being self-destructive.
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
No one said return it until you get a good one? Simply return it if bent..period.
What exactly needs to be properly addressed? A few reports of the issue have come in and it's now on the internet..let's not try and make it out to be millions of units shipping bent or bending with use, and Apple is trying not to stand behind their product... so let's get outraged!! That is nonsense..
No it isn't ok for a new product at ANY price point to come out of the box bent or bend with normal use and not considered abuse. Take it back as you would any product whether it's made by Apple or by Toshiba.
I agree with you also hold Apple to a higher standard, but I see nothing here that has made me question that standard.
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
RETURNED THE DARN BEND THINGY, now go somewhere ie Microsoft or Google thingy....be done w it...you cry baby
Your reaction is extreme too.All companies’ products can have issues. Do Ferraris have no issues just because they are ‘premium’.
Exactly, but the “issue” is how you deal with it. I wonder if Ferrari would tell a customer not satisfied with fit & finish that it’s not an “issue” for them.
What customer has Apple told that to? Who was refused a right to return? Be specific.
Okay, here’s what Macrumors posted of the letter from Apple to complaining customer: “Relative to the issue you referenced regarding the new iPad Pro, its unibody design meets or exceeds all of Apple's high quality standards of design and precision manufacturing. We've carefully engineered it and every part of the manufacturing process is precisely measured and controlled.
Our current specification for iPad Pro flatness is up to 400 microns which is even tighter than previous generations. This 400 micron variance is less than half a millimeter (or the width of fewer than four sheets of paper at most) and this level of flatness won't change during normal use over the lifetime of the product. Note, these slight variations do not affect the function of the device in any way.
Again, thanks for reaching out and I hope the above explanation addresses your concerns.”
Does that last part sound like an offer to return and replace? That’s as specific as I can get.
Here's a useful exercise. Grab a piece of paper and a ruler. Draw a 10-inch line using the ruler. Now at the mid-point of the line, mark a point half a millimeter to the left or right of the line. Now make a triangle out of this by connecting the two ends of the original line to the new dot. Even if you used a fine point mechanical pencil (.5mm or .3mm), to draw these lines, there is no "daylight" inside this triangle. Now hold the paper up to your eye, looking down the line. You will see the "bend" even though for all intents and purposes, there is no bend. If someone gets an iPad with this level of "bend" and wants to return it, that says more about them than Apple.
And if they have more of a bend then that, then Apple considers that defective. There is no story here.
Best input/insight I’ve seen on this issue. I also found it interesting that an Apple Sr VP said the tolerance is less than it was for older generations. To me that sounds like Apple getting better rather than sloppy. Could it be that the flat edges of these new iPads allow us to more readily see that small tolerance? (Inspecting my iPad Air 2 now...)
Calm down Susan. Your all caps emphasis does not add gravitas to your rant. Return it until you get a good one is not a solution to the issue. It's a remedy for one person's bent iPad. It's not a solution to the issue of the bending. There's a difference. Might I suggest you project your insecurities elsewhere. How the hell would I get 15 minutes of fame from this? You sound unhinged.
Right... you spent more time fabricating perceived "issues" I have instead of addressing my points, and of many others challenging you. That pretty much validate's your agenda.
I'm not defending Apple. I'm defending common sense. If something - anything - one buys from any company is not to their "standards", return it and move on. That is the solution for everything. Why you feel Apple needs to somehow do an extra step beyond is just nonsense. Maybe you need a hug as well?
Apple states that they have a 400-micron tolerance. That's .012 inches. Not perceivable as far as I'm concerned to the human eye. This bend shown on AI's photos obviously is beyond those tolerances so it's perfectly acceptable to return it. If a company sees an abnormally large number of returns for this kind of problem, they that means they will most likely change whatever manufacturing process to address it. That's common sense, but apparently not to you.
People like you would find some ambulance-chasing law firm and sue Apple for millions of dollars for perceived "suffering" because of nonsense like this. It's not like the consumer is forced into keeping a defective unit, yet here we are explaining to people like you how ridiculous your position is.
Before you call another commentor’s position ridiculous you might want to be certain of what you are saying. Other commentors here have quite reasonably stated that (a) the human eye can indeed detect a curvature along this length of line caused by a deviation of even less than 400 microns, and one poster even suggested an experiment you can do with ruler and paper to prove his point, and (b) due to the depth of field of that photo at the top of the article, the pictured unit may appear to be more bent than it would appear to the naked eye.
Calm down Susan. Your all caps emphasis does not add gravitas to your rant. Return it until you get a good one is not a solution to the issue. It's a remedy for one person's bent iPad. It's not a solution to the issue of the bending. There's a difference. Might I suggest you project your insecurities elsewhere. How the hell would I get 15 minutes of fame from this? You sound unhinged.
Right... you spent more time fabricating perceived "issues" I have instead of addressing my points, and of many others challenging you. That pretty much validate's your agenda.
I'm not defending Apple. I'm defending common sense. If something - anything - one buys from any company is not to their "standards", return it and move on. That is the solution for everything. Why you feel Apple needs to somehow do an extra step beyond is just nonsense. Maybe you need a hug as well?
Apple states that they have a 400-micron tolerance. That's .012 inches. Not perceivable as far as I'm concerned to the human eye. This bend shown on AI's photos obviously is beyond those tolerances so it's perfectly acceptable to return it. If a company sees an abnormally large number of returns for this kind of problem, they that means they will most likely change whatever manufacturing process to address it. That's common sense, but apparently not to you.
People like you would find some ambulance-chasing law firm and sue Apple for millions of dollars for perceived "suffering" because of nonsense like this. It's not like the consumer is forced into keeping a defective unit, yet here we are explaining to people like you how ridiculous your position is.
You sure get hostile whenever you think someone is being unfair to Apple, don't you? What's "ridiculous" is you, me, or anyone else believing our own position on any given subject is so solid that there's no room for differing views on at least parts of it.
Returning something that isn't up to my standards is easy, but wouldn't you rather not be bothered with that? Wouldn't it be nice to know that the one you order will be ready for you to use, instead of you having to wait while it goes back and then a new one is sent out? What if the new one is bent, too?
"Just return it" ignores the impact Apple's abysmal PR has on consumer brand confidence. Dan said only that the spec is tighter than last year, while not addressing the reports of bad units in the wild at all. That creates FUD for both consumers and investors. So the Tender one is right. "Just return it" isn't good enough. This is another example of Apple's refusal to communicate being self-destructive.
Unless Dan said what he said because Apple actually checks each unit before shipping it. If that’s the case then his statement is all that’s needed.
This entire issue could simply be that the flat sides and 90 degree edges allow people to much more easily discern slight curves that have been there on prior model years all along. Combined with the way the image was taken of the unit shown in this article, which one commenter suggests might cause the curve to appear more pronounced due to depth of field. If those two assertions are correct, then there is no issue, no need for Apple to communicate about returning defective units.
The only additional statement I might expect from Apple is further clarification, to inform the press that the shape of the edges indeed does allow the human eye, and camera, to more easily discern a curve that’s existed as an in-tolerance artifact of manufacturing all along, since the very first iPad. And also MacBooks, likely as not.
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
RETURNED THE DARN BEND THINGY, now go somewhere ie Microsoft or Google thingy....be done w it...you cry baby
Your reaction is extreme too.All companies’ products can have issues. Do Ferraris have no issues just because they are ‘premium’.
Exactly, but the “issue” is how you deal with it. I wonder if Ferrari would tell a customer not satisfied with fit & finish that it’s not an “issue” for them.
What customer has Apple told that to? Who was refused a right to return? Be specific.
Okay, here’s what Macrumors posted of the letter from Apple to complaining customer: “Relative to the issue you referenced regarding the new iPad Pro, its unibody design meets or exceeds all of Apple's high quality standards of design and precision manufacturing. We've carefully engineered it and every part of the manufacturing process is precisely measured and controlled.
Our current specification for iPad Pro flatness is up to 400 microns which is even tighter than previous generations. This 400 micron variance is less than half a millimeter (or the width of fewer than four sheets of paper at most) and this level of flatness won't change during normal use over the lifetime of the product. Note, these slight variations do not affect the function of the device in any way.
Again, thanks for reaching out and I hope the above explanation addresses your concerns.”
Does that last part sound like an offer to return and replace? That’s as specific as I can get.
You’ve argued the wrong point. The other commentor asked you to be specific about someone Apple has refused an opportunity to return a defective product. What you’ve shown is only that Apple took the time to educate and inform a customer, reassuring him that the product he purchased is fit for use and won’t degrade from that status over its normal lifetime.
How does that suggest Apple is refusing this customer a return of a defective product, when the product is not defective but is within its manufacturing tolerance and, while noticeably shows a curve, won’t be adversely affected by that curve, a curve that is within a tighter tolerance than any previous generation iPad’s tolerance?
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
RETURNED THE DARN BEND THINGY, now go somewhere ie Microsoft or Google thingy....be done w it...you cry baby
Your reaction is extreme too.All companies’ products can have issues. Do Ferraris have no issues just because they are ‘premium’.
Exactly, but the “issue” is how you deal with it. I wonder if Ferrari would tell a customer not satisfied with fit & finish that it’s not an “issue” for them.
What customer has Apple told that to? Who was refused a right to return? Be specific.
Okay, here’s what Macrumors posted of the letter from Apple to complaining customer: “Relative to the issue you referenced regarding the new iPad Pro, its unibody design meets or exceeds all of Apple's high quality standards of design and precision manufacturing. We've carefully engineered it and every part of the manufacturing process is precisely measured and controlled.
Our current specification for iPad Pro flatness is up to 400 microns which is even tighter than previous generations. This 400 micron variance is less than half a millimeter (or the width of fewer than four sheets of paper at most) and this level of flatness won't change during normal use over the lifetime of the product. Note, these slight variations do not affect the function of the device in any way.
Again, thanks for reaching out and I hope the above explanation addresses your concerns.”
Does that last part sound like an offer to return and replace? That’s as specific as I can get.
You’ve argued the wrong point. The other commentor asked you to be specific about someone Apple has refused an opportunity to return a defective product. What you’ve shown is only that Apple took the time to educate and inform a customer, reassuring him that the product he purchased is fit for use and won’t degrade from that status over its normal lifetime.
How does that suggest Apple is refusing this customer a return of a defective product, when the product is not defective but is within its manufacturing tolerance and, while noticeably shows a curve, won’t be adversely affected by that curve, a curve that is within a tighter tolerance than any previous generation iPad’s tolerance?
That's a really well-stated argument, and got me thinking about my own reaction to the news.
As a thought experiment, I imagined taking a piece of paper and folding it twice. That gives me the equivalent of the four sheets of paper Riccio uses to describe the tolerance, in a form narrow enough to represent only the crest of the curve. Place that piece of paper on the table and set an iPad on top of it. With the paper near the middle of the iPad, try pressing on the screen near the top then near the bottom. Even just that 400 micron variance is enough to allow the iPad to rock back and forth like a seesaw. Certainly enough to be distracting and possibly disruptive to operation.
To me the issue is that Apple's range of accepted deviation from flat is wider than what would make me happy. I consider that WORSE news than hearing a few freak bent units escaped unnoticed. It tells me that ANY given iPad Pro may not lie flat, and I need to be prepared to cherry pick if that matters to me.
Whether or not this is actually a big deal or just over-reaction to a relatively minor issue obviously depends on how much curve a "typical" unit exhibits and how many are going out with enough curve to be bothersome. I have no idea how serious or widespread the issue is, but it wouldn't deter me from buying one. I wouldn't want one that doesn't lie flat though, so Apple saying "that's normal" makes me wonder how many I'd have to go through before I got one that's "good enough." Maybe only one, maybe several. Who knows?
The only additional statement I might expect from Apple is further clarification, to inform the press that the shape of the edges indeed does allow the human eye, and camera, to more easily discern a curve that’s existed as an in-tolerance artifact of manufacturing all along, since the very first iPad. And also MacBooks, likely as not.
The problem is that Dan telling us tolerances are tighter than before doesn't tell us the whole story.
One possible scenario, which most here consider likely, is that current units are as flat as or flatter than they've ever been before.
Another possible scenario is that while tolerances were wider in the past, MOST units never came close to reaching those limits. Perhaps the new model has a tighter tolerance but there's much more deviation from unit to unit than there was with previous models, so there are more noticeably curved units in the wild than there were with previous models.
We know the tolerance, but we don't know the relative degree of deviation from ideal compared to previous models. A tighter spec doesn't necessarily mean there isn't an issue with consistency.
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
RETURNED THE DARN BEND THINGY, now go somewhere ie Microsoft or Google thingy....be done w it...you cry baby
Your reaction is extreme too.All companies’ products can have issues. Do Ferraris have no issues just because they are ‘premium’.
Exactly, but the “issue” is how you deal with it. I wonder if Ferrari would tell a customer not satisfied with fit & finish that it’s not an “issue” for them.
What customer has Apple told that to? Who was refused a right to return? Be specific.
Okay, here’s what Macrumors posted of the letter from Apple to complaining customer: “Relative to the issue you referenced regarding the new iPad Pro, its unibody design meets or exceeds all of Apple's high quality standards of design and precision manufacturing. We've carefully engineered it and every part of the manufacturing process is precisely measured and controlled.
Our current specification for iPad Pro flatness is up to 400 microns which is even tighter than previous generations. This 400 micron variance is less than half a millimeter (or the width of fewer than four sheets of paper at most) and this level of flatness won't change during normal use over the lifetime of the product. Note, these slight variations do not affect the function of the device in any way.
Again, thanks for reaching out and I hope the above explanation addresses your concerns.”
Does that last part sound like an offer to return and replace? That’s as specific as I can get.
You’ve argued the wrong point. The other commentor asked you to be specific about someone Apple has refused an opportunity to return a defective product. What you’ve shown is only that Apple took the time to educate and inform a customer, reassuring him that the product he purchased is fit for use and won’t degrade from that status over its normal lifetime.
How does that suggest Apple is refusing this customer a return of a defective product, when the product is not defective but is within its manufacturing tolerance and, while noticeably shows a curve, won’t be adversely affected by that curve, a curve that is within a tighter tolerance than any previous generation iPad’s tolerance?
That's a really well-stated argument, and got me thinking about my own reaction to the news.
As a thought experiment, I imagined taking a piece of paper and folding it twice. That gives me the equivalent of the four sheets of paper Riccio uses to describe the tolerance, in a form narrow enough to represent only the crest of the curve. Place that piece of paper on the table and set an iPad on top of it. With the paper near the middle of the iPad, try pressing on the screen near the top then near the bottom. Even just that 400 micron variance is enough to allow the iPad to rock back and forth like a seesaw. Certainly enough to be distracting and possibly disruptive to operation.
To me the issue is that Apple's range of accepted deviation from flat is wider than what would make me happy. I consider that WORSE news than hearing a few freak bent units escaped unnoticed. It tells me that ANY given iPad Pro may not lie flat, and I need to be prepared to cherry pick if that matters to me.
Whether or not this is actually a big deal or just over-reaction to a relatively minor issue obviously depends on how much curve a "typical" unit exhibits and how many are going out with enough curve to be bothersome. I have no idea how serious or widespread the issue is, but it wouldn't deter me from buying one. I wouldn't want one that doesn't lie flat though, so Apple saying "that's normal" makes me wonder how many I'd have to go through before I got one that's "good enough." Maybe only one, maybe several. Who knows?
You seem to have missed Esquirecats' post (comment #51) that already shares his experience about this concern. To sum up, the iPad Pro doesn't rock back and forth, as you theorize. He said,
"Interesting about the curve, but I can see how this is a non-issue for real world users because the device has plenty of flex in it, which seems deliberate when you use the device. I.E. You can lay it flat on a table and despite the camera bump it won't rock back and forth as you draw on it.
To me personally (speaking from the perspective of having one of these) I'm glad that it has that amount of flex because if it rocked back and forth like the iphone does it would drive me insane. It was the first thing I noticed when I used it, I literally said to myself "how does this lay flat even though there is a camera bump.""
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
RETURNED THE DARN BEND THINGY, now go somewhere ie Microsoft or Google thingy....be done w it...you cry baby
Your reaction is extreme too.All companies’ products can have issues. Do Ferraris have no issues just because they are ‘premium’.
Exactly, but the “issue” is how you deal with it. I wonder if Ferrari would tell a customer not satisfied with fit & finish that it’s not an “issue” for them.
What customer has Apple told that to? Who was refused a right to return? Be specific.
Okay, here’s what Macrumors posted of the letter from Apple to complaining customer: “Relative to the issue you referenced regarding the new iPad Pro, its unibody design meets or exceeds all of Apple's high quality standards of design and precision manufacturing. We've carefully engineered it and every part of the manufacturing process is precisely measured and controlled.
Our current specification for iPad Pro flatness is up to 400 microns which is even tighter than previous generations. This 400 micron variance is less than half a millimeter (or the width of fewer than four sheets of paper at most) and this level of flatness won't change during normal use over the lifetime of the product. Note, these slight variations do not affect the function of the device in any way.
Again, thanks for reaching out and I hope the above explanation addresses your concerns.”
Does that last part sound like an offer to return and replace? That’s as specific as I can get.
You’ve argued the wrong point. The other commentor asked you to be specific about someone Apple has refused an opportunity to return a defective product. What you’ve shown is only that Apple took the time to educate and inform a customer, reassuring him that the product he purchased is fit for use and won’t degrade from that status over its normal lifetime.
How does that suggest Apple is refusing this customer a return of a defective product, when the product is not defective but is within its manufacturing tolerance and, while noticeably shows a curve, won’t be adversely affected by that curve, a curve that is within a tighter tolerance than any previous generation iPad’s tolerance?
That's a really well-stated argument, and got me thinking about my own reaction to the news.
As a thought experiment, I imagined taking a piece of paper and folding it twice. That gives me the equivalent of the four sheets of paper Riccio uses to describe the tolerance, in a form narrow enough to represent only the crest of the curve. Place that piece of paper on the table and set an iPad on top of it. With the paper near the middle of the iPad, try pressing on the screen near the top then near the bottom. Even just that 400 micron variance is enough to allow the iPad to rock back and forth like a seesaw. Certainly enough to be distracting and possibly disruptive to operation.
To me the issue is that Apple's range of accepted deviation from flat is wider than what would make me happy. I consider that WORSE news than hearing a few freak bent units escaped unnoticed. It tells me that ANY given iPad Pro may not lie flat, and I need to be prepared to cherry pick if that matters to me.
Whether or not this is actually a big deal or just over-reaction to a relatively minor issue obviously depends on how much curve a "typical" unit exhibits and how many are going out with enough curve to be bothersome. I have no idea how serious or widespread the issue is, but it wouldn't deter me from buying one. I wouldn't want one that doesn't lie flat though, so Apple saying "that's normal" makes me wonder how many I'd have to go through before I got one that's "good enough." Maybe only one, maybe several. Who knows?
Wait... no iPad Pro lies flat, unless you purposefully lay it near the edge of the surface it’s laying upon such that the camera bump is off the edge. How many people use their iPad in this manner? The camera bump will overwhelm any such warp that’s likely, even one that’s a bit outside the 400 micron tolerance. So you’re also arguing the wrong point. Sheesh!
The only additional statement I might expect from Apple is further clarification, to inform the press that the shape of the edges indeed does allow the human eye, and camera, to more easily discern a curve that’s existed as an in-tolerance artifact of manufacturing all along, since the very first iPad. And also MacBooks, likely as not.
The problem is that Dan telling us tolerances are tighter than before doesn't tell us the whole story.
One possible scenario, which most here consider likely, is that current units are as flat as or flatter than they've ever been before.
Another possible scenario is that while tolerances were wider in the past, MOST units never came close to reaching those limits. Perhaps the new model has a tighter tolerance but there's much more deviation from unit to unit than there was with previous models, so there are more noticeably curved units in the wild than there were with previous models.
We know the tolerance, but we don't know the relative degree of deviation from ideal compared to previous models. A tighter spec doesn't necessarily mean there isn't an issue with consistency.
I’d go with Occam’s Razor, which favors Dan’s statement on the matter.
Apple is full of crap.
They used to be the greatest tech company,.
Now, they're just the least worst.
Hey Tim Cook, go do a stock buy back and make your rich friends richer.
And hey, I built my hackintosh and it runs circles around any of the junk you guys make.
Comments
Agreed.
No, that air between ears has to go. Cook is the most successful CEO of modern history.
Returning something that isn't up to my standards is easy, but wouldn't you rather not be bothered with that? Wouldn't it be nice to know that the one you order will be ready for you to use, instead of you having to wait while it goes back and then a new one is sent out? What if the new one is bent, too?
"Just return it" ignores the impact Apple's abysmal PR has on consumer brand confidence. Dan said only that the spec is tighter than last year, while not addressing the reports of bad units in the wild at all. That creates FUD for both consumers and investors. So the Tender one is right. "Just return it" isn't good enough. This is another example of Apple's refusal to communicate being self-destructive.
What exactly needs to be properly addressed? A few reports of the issue have come in and it's now on the internet..let's not try and make it out to be millions of units shipping bent or bending with use, and Apple is trying not to stand behind their product... so let's get outraged!! That is nonsense..
No it isn't ok for a new product at ANY price point to come out of the box bent or bend with normal use and not considered abuse. Take it back as you would any product whether it's made by Apple or by Toshiba.
I agree with you also hold Apple to a higher standard, but I see nothing here that has made me question that standard.
“Relative to the issue you referenced regarding the new iPad Pro, its unibody design meets or exceeds all of Apple's high quality standards of design and precision manufacturing. We've carefully engineered it and every part of the manufacturing process is precisely measured and controlled.
Our current specification for iPad Pro flatness is up to 400 microns which is even tighter than previous generations. This 400 micron variance is less than half a millimeter (or the width of fewer than four sheets of paper at most) and this level of flatness won't change during normal use over the lifetime of the product. Note, these slight variations do not affect the function of the device in any way.
Again, thanks for reaching out and I hope the above explanation addresses your concerns.”
Does that last part sound like an offer to return and replace? That’s as specific as I can get.
Just sayin.
This entire issue could simply be that the flat sides and 90 degree edges allow people to much more easily discern slight curves that have been there on prior model years all along. Combined with the way the image was taken of the unit shown in this article, which one commenter suggests might cause the curve to appear more pronounced due to depth of field. If those two assertions are correct, then there is no issue, no need for Apple to communicate about returning defective units.
The only additional statement I might expect from Apple is further clarification, to inform the press that the shape of the edges indeed does allow the human eye, and camera, to more easily discern a curve that’s existed as an in-tolerance artifact of manufacturing all along, since the very first iPad. And also MacBooks, likely as not.
You’ve argued the wrong point. The other commentor asked you to be specific about someone Apple has refused an opportunity to return a defective product. What you’ve shown is only that Apple took the time to educate and inform a customer, reassuring him that the product he purchased is fit for use and won’t degrade from that status over its normal lifetime.
How does that suggest Apple is refusing this customer a return of a defective product, when the product is not defective but is within its manufacturing tolerance and, while noticeably shows a curve, won’t be adversely affected by that curve, a curve that is within a tighter tolerance than any previous generation iPad’s tolerance?
As a thought experiment, I imagined taking a piece of paper and folding it twice. That gives me the equivalent of the four sheets of paper Riccio uses to describe the tolerance, in a form narrow enough to represent only the crest of the curve. Place that piece of paper on the table and set an iPad on top of it. With the paper near the middle of the iPad, try pressing on the screen near the top then near the bottom. Even just that 400 micron variance is enough to allow the iPad to rock back and forth like a seesaw. Certainly enough to be distracting and possibly disruptive to operation.
To me the issue is that Apple's range of accepted deviation from flat is wider than what would make me happy. I consider that WORSE news than hearing a few freak bent units escaped unnoticed. It tells me that ANY given iPad Pro may not lie flat, and I need to be prepared to cherry pick if that matters to me.
Whether or not this is actually a big deal or just over-reaction to a relatively minor issue obviously depends on how much curve a "typical" unit exhibits and how many are going out with enough curve to be bothersome. I have no idea how serious or widespread the issue is, but it wouldn't deter me from buying one. I wouldn't want one that doesn't lie flat though, so Apple saying "that's normal" makes me wonder how many I'd have to go through before I got one that's "good enough." Maybe only one, maybe several. Who knows?
The problem is that Dan telling us tolerances are tighter than before doesn't tell us the whole story.
One possible scenario, which most here consider likely, is that current units are as flat as or flatter than they've ever been before.
Another possible scenario is that while tolerances were wider in the past, MOST units never came close to reaching those limits. Perhaps the new model has a tighter tolerance but there's much more deviation from unit to unit than there was with previous models, so there are more noticeably curved units in the wild than there were with previous models.
We know the tolerance, but we don't know the relative degree of deviation from ideal compared to previous models. A tighter spec doesn't necessarily mean there isn't an issue with consistency.
"Interesting about the curve, but I can see how this is a non-issue for real world users because the device has plenty of flex in it, which seems deliberate when you use the device. I.E. You can lay it flat on a table and despite the camera bump it won't rock back and forth as you draw on it.
To me personally (speaking from the perspective of having one of these) I'm glad that it has that amount of flex because if it rocked back and forth like the iphone does it would drive me insane. It was the first thing I noticed when I used it, I literally said to myself "how does this lay flat even though there is a camera bump.""
Otherwise this is just yet another media-manufactured farce, enabled by the echo chamber of morons.