Apple says it removed parental control apps because they posed privacy risk

Posted:
in General Discussion edited April 2019
Apple on Sunday issued a formal response to a New York Times report that implied the company removed a number of parental control apps from the App Store to quash competition, saying the titles in question posed a threat to user security.

Screen Time


In its report, The Times said Apple removed a number of screen time monitoring and parental control apps over the past year, sometimes without adequately notifying developers. The tech giant also leveled restrictions or forced material feature changes that left some titles stripped of key functionality.

Developers who provided statements to The Times suggested Apple's prohibitions were instated to put a damper on apps competing with the Screen Time feature that debuted with iOS 12. The tool includes usage monitoring and device control functions rendered redundant by certain third-party apps, the report charged.

Apple responded to the claims in a lengthy post to its Newsroom webpage, titled "The facts about parental control apps." Contradicting developer implications, Apple said the apps were removed because "they put users' privacy and security at risk."

The company's statement largely reiterates salient points from an email marketing chief Phil Schiller sent to a concerned customer on Saturday. Specifically, apps affected by the targeted takedown were found to rely on "highly invasive" Mobile Device Management (MDM) technology.

MDM integration allows deep access to a device and its stored data. As Apple notes, the technology is often used in large-scale enterprise device deployments to protect hardware and potentially sensitive information like proprietary software. Due to its inherently invasive feature set, MDM should not be employed in private sector apps like those offered up to consumers on the App Store, Apple's statement reads.

Apple said it began to investigate the use of MDM in non-enterprise apps in early 2017, an undertaking that prompted an update to the company's developer guidelines later that year. The new rules were cited in the parental control app crackdown.

Developers found to be in violation of the guidelines were given 30 days to fix the issue and submit an app update. Some acquiesced to Apple's requests, but others did not and had their wares removed as a result.

"Parents shouldn't have to trade their fears of their children's device usage for risks to privacy and security, and the App Store should not be a platform to force this choice," Apple said. "No one, except you, should have unrestricted access to manage your child's device."

Apple further denies claims that the removals are related to its own Screen Time feature.

"Apple has always supported third-party apps on the App Store that help parents manage their kids' devices," the company said. "Contrary to what The New York Times reported over the weekend, this isn't a matter of competition. It's a matter of security."

Despite Apple's explanation, developers are taking action against what they believe to be anticompetitive behavior. Two parental control apps featured in The Times' report, Kidslox and Qustodio, last week filed a complaint with the European Union's anti-competition office on allegations that Apple's forced changes had a negative impact on business. Kaspersky Lab did the same in Russia last month following the removal of its "Safe Kids" parental control app.

Music streaming service Spotify filed its own antitrust complaint against Apple with the European Commission in March, citing artificial App Store restrictions.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27

    I never installed any of these parental control apps since I was concerned about the very same thing.

    The very nature of such apps is constant monitoring and I couldn't trust any of the developers to keep my data private.

    That is why I've looked forward to Apple's implementation and that is why I use it without any fear of privacy breaches.

    mwhitechasmmike54GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 2 of 27
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,304member
    NYT did a bad job taking skeevy developers at their word without verifying claims. I expect better from them. This is the kind of bad journalism you’d normally see from Bloomberg or Business Insider.
    edited April 2019 mike54JWSCdws-2lkruppmacseeker
  • Reply 3 of 27
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    It remains to be shown that Apple did or did not give consistent and adequate notice of the reasons why certain apps were removed. The NYT article specifically alleges that the developers couldn’t determine why their apps were being targeted. 

    Apple is making it clear publicly that the use of MDM in public facing apps is the problem. This is the same issue highlighted when Apple bricked enterprise apps used by Facebook and others who used enterprise APIs in their public facing apps? 

    Seems so. 
  • Reply 4 of 27
    gtj333gtj333 Posts: 20member
    Trying being a parent with kids who will use their iPads all day and night. Privacy is not the issue we have - it is managing their time that takes a ton of our time. Screen Time is a joke to control these scenarios - too complicated for parents to figure out and manage.

    MDM works for IT departments to control their employees. As a parent, I'm the IT dept paying for these devices and I need similar ability to control the amount of time and what they can do.

    Provide the warnings to the parent on privacy and let the markets decide - give us the choice to run apps like OurPact - it has been a lifesaver for our family. Apple would have done better buying OurPact instead of the complicated mess they attempted in iOS12. 
    tokyojimudws-2
  • Reply 5 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    gtj333 said:
    Trying being a parent with kids who will use their iPads all day and night. Privacy is not the issue we have - it is managing their time that takes a ton of our time. Screen Time is a joke to control these scenarios - too complicated for parents to figure out and manage.

    MDM works for IT departments to control their employees. As a parent, I'm the IT dept paying for these devices and I need similar ability to control the amount of time and what they can do.

    Provide the warnings to the parent on privacy and let the markets decide - give us the choice to run apps like OurPact - it has been a lifesaver for our family. Apple would have done better buying OurPact instead of the complicated mess they attempted in iOS12. 
    It sounds like you are really arguing for effective parental controls.   That can be done without compromising Apple security for everybody.
    llama
  • Reply 6 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    As has become normal these days, the debate evolves not around right or wrong, legal or illegal -- but around spin.  Those protesting this action by Apple claim it is about "competition".   I find it really hard to believe that they don't realize that is bullshit -- but they claim it anyway simply because it supports their agenda.

    The standard recipe for spin: 
    1) Start with your goals and agenda
    2)  Invent a talking point that supports that agenda (in this case "competition") and that sounds credible and that can arouse suspicion, fear and hatred.  (The credibility part is greatly aided if the claim has even a trace of truth in it.  In this case, that Apple's free screen time is competing with their own for-profit apps.)
    3)  Repeat that talking point loudly and often.
    4)  Add fake outrage to add credibility
  • Reply 7 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    So, what happens to those apps that violate this policy and that parents already installed
    Does Apple delete the app from the kid's & parent's phone or let it ride?
  • Reply 8 of 27
    gtj333gtj333 Posts: 20member
    gtj333 said:
    Trying being a parent with kids who will use their iPads all day and night. Privacy is not the issue we have - it is managing their time that takes a ton of our time. Screen Time is a joke to control these scenarios - too complicated for parents to figure out and manage.

    MDM works for IT departments to control their employees. As a parent, I'm the IT dept paying for these devices and I need similar ability to control the amount of time and what they can do.

    Provide the warnings to the parent on privacy and let the markets decide - give us the choice to run apps like OurPact - it has been a lifesaver for our family. Apple would have done better buying OurPact instead of the complicated mess they attempted in iOS12. 
    It sounds like you are really arguing for effective parental controls.   That can be done without compromising Apple security for everybody.
    Yes - this is not a new set of requirements for Apple - they have had years to address. Families don't have years to find reasonable solutions. I've developed commercial software for 20+ yrs - the iOS12 solution is a mess for a parent to try to manage. These 3rd party solutions don't compromise any more than any other MDM solution or anyone who doesn't install it. 
  • Reply 9 of 27
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    This article never explains how they made it on the App Store in the first place. How did they get through the review process?
    [Deleted User]anantksundaramGeorgeBMacelijahg
  • Reply 10 of 27
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    chasm said:
    NYT did a bad job taking skeevy developers at their word without verifying claims. I expect better from them. This is the kind of bad journalism you’d normally see from Bloomberg or Business Insider.
    This is actually standard operating procedure from the news outlets today. When I read this issues originally, i thought there were more to this than what was being implied which Apple only removed them because it competed with Apple's build-in solution. The media wonders why people no longer trust them, it does not take long for people to realize there is missing information in a story.
    JWSC
  • Reply 11 of 27
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    gtj333 said:
    Trying being a parent with kids who will use their iPads all day and night. Privacy is not the issue we have - it is managing their time that takes a ton of our time. Screen Time is a joke to control these scenarios - too complicated for parents to figure out and manage.

    MDM works for IT departments to control their employees. As a parent, I'm the IT dept paying for these devices and I need similar ability to control the amount of time and what they can do.

    Provide the warnings to the parent on privacy and let the markets decide - give us the choice to run apps like OurPact - it has been a lifesaver for our family. Apple would have done better buying OurPact instead of the complicated mess they attempted in iOS12. 

    You already have the most powerful tool available to you, its called being a parent and exercise your responsibility over your kids. It is easy just tell your kids to turn it off if they do not listen you take it away. Do not abacate your responsibilities as adult and parent to some third party and hopes they have your best interest in mind and not their own. In my house I only had to ground the electronics once for the bad unrespectful behavior to end.


    BTW, sometimes your kids will get mad and tell you they hate you because you did the right things. They will get over it.
    larryjwJWSCyoyo2222macplusplusmacseekerjohnbsiriusllama
  • Reply 12 of 27
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    maestro64 said:
    chasm said:
    NYT did a bad job taking skeevy developers at their word without verifying claims. I expect better from them. This is the kind of bad journalism you’d normally see from Bloomberg or Business Insider.
    This is actually standard operating procedure from the news outlets today. When I read this issues originally, i thought there were more to this than what was being implied which Apple only removed them because it competed with Apple's build-in solution. The media wonders why people no longer trust them, it does not take long for people to realize there is missing information in a story.
    NYT is reporting on developers’ problems with Apple. NYT is giving voice to these developers. There is nothing in this article that says otherwise. NYT is NOT claiming this is an investigative piece by NYT, it’s just reporting. You’re not supposed to believe it just because it appeared in the paper. NYT’s only responsibility in its role of reporting is to accurately report what, in this case, these developers are saying. This, I think, they have done.

    Now, Apple has responded to the report. We have Apple’s take on the issues. We know more, or at least we have the positions of both sides. What is the truth the remains. 

    Both could be telling the truth: Apple did reject based on use of MDM, and developers were not given enough information by Apple about what rules the developers had broken — that is, use of MDM for public facing apps. 

    NYT is not required to do the thinking for you.


    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 13 of 27
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    larryjw said:
    maestro64 said:
    chasm said:
    NYT did a bad job taking skeevy developers at their word without verifying claims. I expect better from them. This is the kind of bad journalism you’d normally see from Bloomberg or Business Insider.
    This is actually standard operating procedure from the news outlets today. When I read this issues originally, i thought there were more to this than what was being implied which Apple only removed them because it competed with Apple's build-in solution. The media wonders why people no longer trust them, it does not take long for people to realize there is missing information in a story.
    NYT is reporting on developers’ problems with Apple. NYT is giving voice to these developers. There is nothing in this article that says otherwise. NYT is NOT claiming this is an investigative piece by NYT, it’s just reporting. You’re not supposed to believe it just because it appeared in the paper. NYT’s only responsibility in its role of reporting is to accurately report what, in this case, these developers are saying. This, I think, they have done.

    Now, Apple has responded to the report. We have Apple’s take on the issues. We know more, or at least we have the positions of both sides. What is the truth the remains. 

    Both could be telling the truth: Apple did reject based on use of MDM, and developers were not given enough information by Apple about what rules the developers had broken — that is, use of MDM for public facing apps. 

    NYT is not required to do the thinking for you.


    Sorry but if the NY Times is going write about something they should make sure what they’re writing about is accurate. Before publishing its their responsibility to investigate that the claims by these developers check out. And if it’s a he said Apple said thing then fairly present both sides in the story. They didn’t do that. And I see now the story has become Apple is bad for not providing developers proper tools/APIs. I’m sorry there’s no law that says smartphone makers have to provide tools to 3rd parties for tracking device usage. And if Apple doesn’t provide a tool needed it doesn’t give developers the right to break App Store rules.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 14 of 27
    dws-2dws-2 Posts: 276member
    larryjw said:
    maestro64 said:
    chasm said:
    NYT did a bad job taking skeevy developers at their word without verifying claims. I expect better from them. This is the kind of bad journalism you’d normally see from Bloomberg or Business Insider.
    This is actually standard operating procedure from the news outlets today. When I read this issues originally, i thought there were more to this than what was being implied which Apple only removed them because it competed with Apple's build-in solution. The media wonders why people no longer trust them, it does not take long for people to realize there is missing information in a story.
    NYT is reporting on developers’ problems with Apple. NYT is giving voice to these developers. There is nothing in this article that says otherwise. NYT is NOT claiming this is an investigative piece by NYT, it’s just reporting. You’re not supposed to believe it just because it appeared in the paper. NYT’s only responsibility in its role of reporting is to accurately report what, in this case, these developers are saying. This, I think, they have done.

    Now, Apple has responded to the report. We have Apple’s take on the issues. We know more, or at least we have the positions of both sides. What is the truth the remains. 

    Both could be telling the truth: Apple did reject based on use of MDM, and developers were not given enough information by Apple about what rules the developers had broken — that is, use of MDM for public facing apps. 

    NYT is not required to do the thinking for you.


    Nobody is required to think for you. However, I choose to read news sources that also do a little thinking themselves. This was a poorly researched article by a writer who didn't really understand the complexities of the topic. It makes me sad that even the NYT can't seem to find enough money to have writers who know their beat / areas of coverage.

    I also think Apple's at fault. They continue to make these sudden decisions without notice to developers and consumers. For years, these apps have been using MDM to control user's screen time, and people have valued them. Anyone the least bit experienced in development would know this. Now Apple decides to pull these apps by enforcing a policy they never did previously without providing any alternative. It's maddening, and it really shows a lack of thought about how the app store is run. If they really wanted to pull these apps, Apple at least should have issued an advisory saying that things were changing, and ideally should have implemented an API that could accomplish the same things without the privacy implications.
    edited April 2019
  • Reply 15 of 27
    This article never explains how they made it on the App Store in the first place. How did they get through the review process?
    Neither does Schiller, for all his fulminations.
  • Reply 16 of 27
    thttht Posts: 5,450member
    gtj333 said:
    Trying being a parent with kids who will use their iPads all day and night. Privacy is not the issue we have - it is managing their time that takes a ton of our time. Screen Time is a joke to control these scenarios - too complicated for parents to figure out and manage.

    MDM works for IT departments to control their employees. As a parent, I'm the IT dept paying for these devices and I need similar ability to control the amount of time and what they can do.

    Provide the warnings to the parent on privacy and let the markets decide - give us the choice to run apps like OurPact - it has been a lifesaver for our family. Apple would have done better buying OurPact instead of the complicated mess they attempted in iOS12. 
    Are you using Screen Time? What do you want to do with it?

    It seems remarkably easy to me. It could be more granular I suppose, but setting limits seem remarkably easy. If you don’t want the kids to use it at night, set the Down Time during sleeping periods. You can look at the most used activities and app, and set limits on a per app and per website basis.
    johnbsirius
  • Reply 17 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    maestro64 said:
    chasm said:
    NYT did a bad job taking skeevy developers at their word without verifying claims. I expect better from them. This is the kind of bad journalism you’d normally see from Bloomberg or Business Insider.
    This is actually standard operating procedure from the news outlets today. When I read this issues originally, i thought there were more to this than what was being implied which Apple only removed them because it competed with Apple's build-in solution. The media wonders why people no longer trust them, it does not take long for people to realize there is missing information in a story.
    Uh, well, no...
    No news outlet in the history of news reporting has gotten every story 100% correct the first time.   But quality news outlets (as oppose to propaganda sites) not only do their best to report fully and accurately, but correct themselves and the story when they get it wrong.

    It is only those who do not want the full, true, accurate story reported who claim we can "no longer trust the media".
  • Reply 18 of 27
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,256member
    gtj333 said:
    Trying being a parent with kids who will use their iPads all day and night. Privacy is not the issue we have - it is managing their time that takes a ton of our time. Screen Time is a joke to control these scenarios - too complicated for parents to figure out and manage.

    MDM works for IT departments to control their employees. As a parent, I'm the IT dept paying for these devices and I need similar ability to control the amount of time and what they can do.

    Provide the warnings to the parent on privacy and let the markets decide - give us the choice to run apps like OurPact - it has been a lifesaver for our family. Apple would have done better buying OurPact instead of the complicated mess they attempted in iOS12. 
    I am not a parent, but you make some great points. 
    I went into the screen time settings to see what you could limit, and the one thing that stood out as needing improvement was scheduling. You can easily set time limits, but you can’t allow an App to only run from 3 to 4 pm, for example. 
    Apple should make Screen Time a proper App and add scheduling features, also borrowing the “scenes” concept from HomeKit.
    ”Hey Siri, engage kid friendly mode!”
    You get the idea. 
    edited April 2019 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 19 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    dws-2 said:
    larryjw said:
    maestro64 said:
    chasm said:
    NYT did a bad job taking skeevy developers at their word without verifying claims. I expect better from them. This is the kind of bad journalism you’d normally see from Bloomberg or Business Insider.
    This is actually standard operating procedure from the news outlets today. When I read this issues originally, i thought there were more to this than what was being implied which Apple only removed them because it competed with Apple's build-in solution. The media wonders why people no longer trust them, it does not take long for people to realize there is missing information in a story.
    NYT is reporting on developers’ problems with Apple. NYT is giving voice to these developers. There is nothing in this article that says otherwise. NYT is NOT claiming this is an investigative piece by NYT, it’s just reporting. You’re not supposed to believe it just because it appeared in the paper. NYT’s only responsibility in its role of reporting is to accurately report what, in this case, these developers are saying. This, I think, they have done.

    Now, Apple has responded to the report. We have Apple’s take on the issues. We know more, or at least we have the positions of both sides. What is the truth the remains. 

    Both could be telling the truth: Apple did reject based on use of MDM, and developers were not given enough information by Apple about what rules the developers had broken — that is, use of MDM for public facing apps. 

    NYT is not required to do the thinking for you.
    ...
    ...
    I also think Apple's at fault. They continue to make these sudden decisions without notice to developers and consumers. For years, these apps have been using MDM to control user's screen time, and people have valued them. Anyone the least bit experienced in development would know this. Now Apple decides to pull these apps by enforcing a policy they never did previously without providing any alternative. It's maddening, and it really shows a lack of thought about how the app store is run. If they really wanted to pull these apps, Apple at least should have issued an advisory saying that things were changing, and ideally should have implemented an API that could accomplish the same things without the privacy implications.
    Didn't Apple announce this months ago when identified FaceBook using it improperly and shut it down?
    ... But, yeh, in either case, consumers suffer.  Apple needed to have front ended this better.
  • Reply 20 of 27
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    maestro64 said:
    chasm said:
    NYT did a bad job taking skeevy developers at their word without verifying claims. I expect better from them. This is the kind of bad journalism you’d normally see from Bloomberg or Business Insider.
    This is actually standard operating procedure from the news outlets today. When I read this issues originally, i thought there were more to this than what was being implied which Apple only removed them because it competed with Apple's build-in solution. The media wonders why people no longer trust them, it does not take long for people to realize there is missing information in a story.
    Uh, well, no...
    No news outlet in the history of news reporting has gotten every story 100% correct the first time.   But quality news outlets (as oppose to propaganda sites) not only do their best to report fully and accurately, but correct themselves and the story when they get it wrong.

    It is only those who do not want the full, true, accurate story reported who claim we can "no longer trust the media".
    I would agree with your statement no one can always be 100% accurate, however, I think the biggest difference today verse in the past, and I am talking 20+ years in the past. The news use to state things as it was known, and did not put any hint of option in the news. Ie there was accident on the highway and the police said people were hurt. Today the news would say a driver was speeding and cause a major accident on the highway and there were serious injuries. Opinions, the person was speeding, Major accident,  and serious injuries, because media today only thinks accident happen because of speeding and all injuries from speeding accidents are serious.

    We all get it takes time for the all the information to come our and lots of questions have to be asked before everything is known. Too many times reporters are way out over their skis and filling in blank with what they think should be true or what they want to be true. I tend to read various sources for news and I had personally listen to what someone said in their own words only to have the different source report completely different things about what the person said, the only difference is journalist implying the what the person real intent was behind the statement. Just state what the person said, do not try to understand their intent, let the reader decide what they meant,

    I think AI tries to do a good job, they report what others are saying or what appears to have happen, as new information comes available they usually circle back and in fill in the blanks, like we saw with this article.
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