Citigroup bailed on Apple Card because of worries about profits

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 35
    YP101YP101 Posts: 140member
    Normal bank can't compete with this.. Due to they have too many branch offices and employees.
    Goldman on other hand, they just start banking business(marcus) and they don't have banch offices and even checking account.
    So they can reduce the fee and marketing geek they getting is way too good for them.

    I think lots of people who getting Apple card will open Marcus saving account and autopay it. Good for the Goldman.
  • Reply 22 of 35
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    maestro64 said:
    gatorguy said:
    maestro64 said:
    rob53 said:
    "Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez announced new legislation Thursday to cap credit card interest rates at 15%, a move that they said will help protect consumers from the "greed" of the credit card and banking industries."

    USA Today, May 9, 2019

    Before people start screaming about this being political, just think about what AI is saying in this article about Citigroup. Credit Card companies are today's LEGAL loansharks and very few people in our government are doing anything to stop it. 

    "Goldman Sachs seeks to disrupt consumer finance by putting the customer first," claimed a Goldman Sachs spokesman. "We are excited for customers to use Apple Card, which is designed to help people take control of their financial lives."

    At least there is one company trying to buck the trend. I'm sure Goldman Sachs and Apple are still making some money on this deal but like medical insurance companies, there's no reason why credit cad companies should be making a vulgar amount of money doing practically nothing.
    I will tell you again, like the last time you brought this up, you only pay interest if you are buying things you can not afford. If you use a CC to delay payment by 30 days and use someone else money for 30 days and pay it off then you do not pay interest. This is not a hard concept to understand. 

    The reason CC interest rates are high due is to the fact it is unsecure loan of money that any one can walk away from and people do every day. If you are willing to pay high interest rate on a card to helping those who choose to walk way from their debts.

    Stop expecting the government to fix your problem, learn how to manage money.
    Maestro, are mortgages also for people buying things they can't afford? Perhaps unless you're wealthy by birth or whatever renting is the way we should all go until we can save up the 100K plus to buy a starter home. I would guess that's your suggestion. 
    Your mortgage is backed by the home itself it is a secure loan, in a case of mortgage you're buying a thing of value that goes up in value in most cases so it low risk to the bank. To your point, yes you should save to buy your house, but it is still your choice to pay interest to get what you want, but do not complain about it. I live in PA and the Amish pay cash for their properties, very few get loans so it can be done.

    I was talking about people using other people's money to buy things that does not have value and as soon as you buy it loses most of it value it is had any value. No one is complaining about interest rates on mortgages. As I said if you paying interest in a CC you buying things you can not afford in the first place. You do not need to come from money to get ahead, my parents taught me to buy want you can afford, and save for what you want. I taught both my kids this and they both have CC and neither carry balances on their CC both are in their early 20"s
    That's not what he asked, nor is it the common sentiment on this forum by some since this card was introduced. Not many people "can afford" to pony up cash for the entire cost of their home at purchase so they obtain financing. The home being secured by the loan is what leads to much lower interest rates is a separate discussion from statements regarding people shouldn't buy things that require credit.
    tyler82
  • Reply 23 of 35
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member

    It should worry everyone that all the normal entities in cc financing took a pill and Apple ended up with Goldman Sachs.  Goldman.Sachs.  Call me cynical, but I feel Goldman, in typical Goldman fashion, found a way to make this venture potentially profitable in ways the others didn't.  How that potential profitability will affect cardholders... it's Goldman.  I don't have confidence the affect will be positive.
    All the others already have CCs available so this could cut into their bottom line, but since GS doesn't there is nothing to cannibalize? \_(ツ)_/¯ 
    edited May 2019 bonobob
  • Reply 24 of 35
    Soli said:

    It should worry everyone that all the normal entities in cc financing took a pill and Apple ended up with Goldman Sachs.  Goldman.Sachs.  Call me cynical, but I feel Goldman, in typical Goldman fashion, found a way to make this venture potentially profitable in ways the others didn't.  How that potential profitability will affect cardholders... it's Goldman.  I don't have confidence the affect will be positive.
    All the others already have CCs available so this could cut into their bottom line, but since GS doesn't there is nothing to cannibalize? \_(ツ)_/¯ 
    I don't begrudge anyone for wanting the card.  Just from personal perspective, anything associated with Goldman gets a side eye.  They weren't alone in financial shenanigans, but they were spectacular in their raw greed and disregard for everything and everyone.  I don't need another credit card, and I hope the people who get it don't end up regretting it.  If I did need/want a card, it wouldn't be knowingly associated with GS.  
    dysamoriatyler82
  • Reply 25 of 35
    mystigomystigo Posts: 151member
    ....As bad a rep as Goldman Sachs has, Barclay is basically a criminal enterprise. 
    On the other hand, my new Barclay-backed UBER credit card pays me 4% back on all dining and bars. This adds up quickly. Of course, for this to be profitable for me, I have to carry no balance and incur no late fees. I make sure of this by having automatic full balance payments made from my checking account, which itself has overdraft protection. You can make even the most usurious credit cards work for you, but you have to play the game better than they do.

    "Profitable"? Unless you are reselling those meals, I don't think that word means what you think it means. :)  But I get your point.
    tyler82
  • Reply 26 of 35
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    Yet more callous indifference to the majority of people who cannot live by the standards of the “personal accountability” cult... I know it’s just a handful of people here, but they are always cocked & loaded, ready to fire off judgmental comments about people less privileged than themselves, defending laissez-faire capitalism when someone brings up the clearly unethical tactics used by huge corporations.

    Side note, so that I’m not making multiple posts: The post about how awful Citibank is got my attention. Citi was my first credit card. They had a marketing package inserted into the “welcome kit” when I started college at age 18. I kept part of the odd marketing materials that tried to appeal to weird college kids (“breed goats in your dorm”). I taped it to a 3.5” diskette organizer. It’s still there.

    Only in hindsight, more than 20 years later (!!), after bankruptcy (caused by an SSNRI drug killing impulse control), did it finally dawn on me how predatory their marketing was, and how culpable the school was in taking that deal. Preying on the financially inexperienced and potentially unwise/impulsive youth... it’s exactly what it looks like. Is that still legal?

    The financial calamity that befell me had nothing to do with my own financial habits. I maintained excellent credit (until psych drugs). My dad actually advised I get the Citibank CC so I could build credit. Ok. I paid my card every month and kept no balance. I spent within my means. I bought and paid off (early, even) a new car, and bought a house. My second credit card was, again, at my dad’s suggestion, acquired only to get a discount on my new washing machine, dryer, and refrigerator. I let that card sit in a drawer after paying the bill. Sears actually cancelled it for lack of use.

    Then came an abusive boss, hostile employer, relationship endings, harassment by my new neighbors, and psych drugs coerced onto me to “treat depression”. I stopped being me. I started buying more stuff to fuel hobbies (which I was too depressed and stressed to engage in anyway), accepting more and more offers of credit. Bill-Me-later. Bonus discounts. Etc. I had probably five or six lines of credit by the time I filed bankruptcy (after getting off the effing psych drugs, I could think again).

    Today I live in poverty, am trapped in the “five years maximum temporary” house I was pressured into buying, and I would jump in front of a train to escape my crappy life IF that were guaranteed to be painless (ha ha) and not have even a fraction of a percent of possibility of failing (the risk of survival and being even worse off keeps me from trying anything; I’d rather hate living while alive with a fully functional body than hate being alive with a crippled and mutilated body).

    Life can pile up and snowball on you. Things outside your control can happen. You cannot control everything. At least I don’t have cancer (yet??) like my [also impoverished] companion. Even smart people with good behavior and wise habits can be screwed by the economic setup of the USA.

    We are targeted by opportunistic corporations and banks who know of, profit from, and actively target these kinds of vulnerabilities. The independently-wealthy are immune to these risks and they run our country. They are convinced that (and will promote the ideology that) “personal accountability” and “hard work” are the keys to success and happiness.

    BS!

    Luck is a far greater factor in not living a miserable subsistence in poverty. All of you hardass “personal accountability” and “hard work” people are deluded by your survivorship bias.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
    tyler82Solilogic2.6JanNL
  • Reply 27 of 35
    1st1st Posts: 443member
    Personal responsibility - CC required certain credit rating to get approval. For those fall behind were assumed to be able to have enough asset to pay off.  Payday loan were take advantage for the poor chaps living on paycheck to paycheck, gov should cap those extreme high interest rates
     For Democrat to focus on CC but not payday loan just show their intention of try please the voter (larger population than payday loan chaps). Back to topic, I can see why city pull out the deal. The overhead structure put city in disadvantage compare to GS...GS just enter for new field, no need to avoid to step on to its foot upon running. City got their own CC turf to defend. IMHO. 
  • Reply 28 of 35
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,757member
    1st said:
    "Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez announced new legislation Thursday to cap credit card interest rates at 15%, a move that they said will help protect consumers from the "greed" of the credit card and banking industries."
    They should cap interest rates of those dollar mart or similar outfit ads for "20 dollar for 1000l payday loan instead. Barking on the wrong tree IMHO. 
    Christ those two are just insufferable. WAHHH FAIRNESSS WAHHH.

    The problem with their whole act is there are tons of pathetic people who actually think like this.

    How about: Personal Responsibility. GASP! Don't fucking use a credit card and not pay it off assholes!
    Banks have pushed society to the use of electronic banking and easy credit, profiting from every step in the process. They have a responsibility that they are more than willing to abrogate if they can get away with it... which they likely do more than not. Banks profit from their own mistakes when overcharging, at best refunding fees when challenged but profiting if not. A cap on fees will protect the most vulnerable - not everyone can manage so as not to become victims of overspending when many hard working people increasingly can't afford just basic costs of living.
    tyler82
  • Reply 29 of 35
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 1,010member
    1st said:
    "Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez announced new legislation Thursday to cap credit card interest rates at 15%, a move that they said will help protect consumers from the "greed" of the credit card and banking industries."
    They should cap interest rates of those dollar mart or similar outfit ads for "20 dollar for 1000l payday loan instead. Barking on the wrong tree IMHO. 
    Christ those two are just insufferable. WAHHH FAIRNESSS WAHHH.

    The problem with their whole act is there are tons of pathetic people who actually think like this.

    How about: Personal Responsibility. GASP! Don't fucking use a credit card and not pay it off assholes!

    The responses by those, such as you just exhibited, when either of these two politicians are mentioned proves who the adults are in the room (and not). 

    I wish we we could get back to discussing the problems of the world in thoughtful discussion without the looney histrionics. 

    I do agree that there is an epidemic of living beyond means that goes into the territory of entitlement. Buying a $1200 iPhone when a $200 smartphone will do the job just fine. Large screen TVs and $200 cable subscriptions. 

    There is honor in frugality and saving your hard earned money. 

    There are are also a lot of people who are sick and paying their medical bills on credit because we have a system that is so rigged in favor of ever growing profits. 

    The world ain’t black and white honey. Get out of your internet comfort zone and interact more. 
    edited May 2019
  • Reply 30 of 35
    hmlongcohmlongco Posts: 388member
    JWSC said:
    Yea well, Citigroup correctly identified the risk to their business model and ran, like the non-innovative, lazy, quasi-criminals they are.  The other quasi-criminals Goldman Sachs are not so lazy and correctly saw the opportunity in upending the credit card biz.   Risk and Opportunity.  They are one and the same.
    Correctly identified the "risk to their business model" as not generating "enough" profit from the customers they're supposed to be serving.
  • Reply 31 of 35
    hmlongcohmlongco Posts: 388member
    rob53 said:
    .... blatantly steal from others (declaring bankruptcy is another one of those legal ways to not pay people what they are owed and is usually done by people with a lot of money). 
    Almost any of us, including you, are one major life event (accident, sickness, catastrophe) from being bankrupt. Is it your contention that it's okay for someone to become permanently indentured to someone else due to an event that occurs beyond their control?

    SoliJanNL
  • Reply 32 of 35
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,036member
    rob53 said:
    maestro64 said:
    rob53 said:
    "Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez announced new legislation Thursday to cap credit card interest rates at 15%, a move that they said will help protect consumers from the "greed" of the credit card and banking industries."

    USA Today, May 9, 2019

    Before people start screaming about this being political, just think about what AI is saying in this article about Citigroup. Credit Card companies are today's LEGAL loansharks and very few people in our government are doing anything to stop it. 

    "Goldman Sachs seeks to disrupt consumer finance by putting the customer first," claimed a Goldman Sachs spokesman. "We are excited for customers to use Apple Card, which is designed to help people take control of their financial lives."

    At least there is one company trying to buck the trend. I'm sure Goldman Sachs and Apple are still making some money on this deal but like medical insurance companies, there's no reason why credit cad companies should be making a vulgar amount of money doing practically nothing.
    I will tell you again, like the last time you brought this up, you only pay interest if you are buying things you can not afford. If you use a CC to delay payment by 30 days and use someone else money for 30 days and pay it off then you do not pay interest. This is not a hard concept to understand. 

    The reason CC interest rates are high due is to the fact it is unsecure loan of money that any one can walk away from and people do every day. If you are willing to pay high interest rate on a card to helping those who choose to walk way from their debts.

    Stop expecting the government to fix your problem, learn how to manage money.

    This is why interest rates are high


    I don't remember bringing it up before but it really doesn't matter. I haven't paid credit card interest in maybe 15 years but that doesn't mean I, or you, are the rule, we're the exception. I can prove that by showing how much money these companies make off of interest. Borrowing money has been going on forever, this isn't a new thing. There has always been some kind of interest being being paid for the process. As others have said, the only way 99% of people can buy anything is to use some kind of credit or deferred payment method. Actually, the other 1% use deferred payment methods all the time while some end up not even paying for things. People are paid once or twice a month yet bills come throughout the month. There are also times when that pay check doesn't cover emergencies, which is where credit cards come in. 

    The government is simply trying to stop as many cheaters as they can, something we pay taxes for. Of course, some people feel it's ok to cheat others as well as to blatantly steal from others (declaring bankruptcy is another one of those legal ways to not pay people what they are owed and is usually done by people with a lot of money). 

    You can continue to deflect from what's being presented with your comments or look at what's really going on and come up with constructive comments.
    Just to refresh your memory 

    https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/comment/3157455/#Comment_3157455 

    You know why people live pay check to pay check, they buying things they can not afford.  Yes there are emergencies and thus the reason you save money, Yes I know only 30% of the people in the US have any sorts of savings. This is not a failure of CC companies or a bank making as much profits as they can, this is a failure of individuals not taking responsibility for their own actions. Schools today do not spend a second teaching kids how to manage money or even how to balance a check book. However, I am more than willing to say parents should be teaching their kids how to manage money and what they spend. 

    This is not any failure of the government or even big evil credit card companies collect interest from people willing to pay it. It is simply a failure of individual not willing to have some level of self control. I am not deflecting, it is called root cause analysis and when you fix the root cause then they solve the real problem, today it is easier to attack the symptom I.e. high interest rate, than fix people's bad behavior. As i said in another post, my kids do not have this issue so I took care of my responsibilities.

    This is no different than people saying Apple products cost too much and they need to lower their price so everyone can buy one. Why does everyone need to buy Apple products. Well we heard this argument about security, only those who can afford Apple actually have good security. Instead of the competition stepping up their game and fixing their problems, we have our government trying to degrade the security of Apple products. I know that is a reach but, that is the kind of solution you get when you ask the government to solve a personal problem. 

    If you look at this graph and go to creditcards.com where this came from you will see the same group of people defaulting on student loans also make up over 50% of the default on CC payments. We now have a whole generation of debtors who think it is okay to walk away from their responsibility, Thus the reason Bernie is all about giving them free stuff and these same people support him.

    I remember when banks use to do all kinds of things to get people as clients such as giving high interest on savings and interest bearing checking. Today they do none of this because they found people more than willing to pay them high interests on CC. They are using this profits to make investments in things like mortgages or small business loans which have a lower default rate and are back with colleterial.  If everyone paid off their cards all the time, I bet banks would be dropping interest rates to get customers and hope they would not pay it off or go back to paying higher interest in savings and checking.

    BTW my interest rate on my main card which I always pay off is 7.5% has been that way since I got it, the CC company was willing to give me a low rate just to get wife and I as customers. 
    edited May 2019
  • Reply 33 of 35
    maestro64 said:
    rob53 said:
    maestro64 said:
    rob53 said:
    "Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez announced new legislation Thursday to cap credit card interest rates at 15%, a move that they said will help protect consumers from the "greed" of the credit card and banking industries."

    USA Today, May 9, 2019

    Before people start screaming about this being political, just think about what AI is saying in this article about Citigroup. Credit Card companies are today's LEGAL loansharks and very few people in our government are doing anything to stop it. 

    "Goldman Sachs seeks to disrupt consumer finance by putting the customer first," claimed a Goldman Sachs spokesman. "We are excited for customers to use Apple Card, which is designed to help people take control of their financial lives."

    At least there is one company trying to buck the trend. I'm sure Goldman Sachs and Apple are still making some money on this deal but like medical insurance companies, there's no reason why credit cad companies should be making a vulgar amount of money doing practically nothing.
    I will tell you again, like the last time you brought this up, you only pay interest if you are buying things you can not afford. If you use a CC to delay payment by 30 days and use someone else money for 30 days and pay it off then you do not pay interest. This is not a hard concept to understand. 

    The reason CC interest rates are high due is to the fact it is unsecure loan of money that any one can walk away from and people do every day. If you are willing to pay high interest rate on a card to helping those who choose to walk way from their debts.

    Stop expecting the government to fix your problem, learn how to manage money.

    This is why interest rates are high


    I don't remember bringing it up before but it really doesn't matter. I haven't paid credit card interest in maybe 15 years but that doesn't mean I, or you, are the rule, we're the exception. I can prove that by showing how much money these companies make off of interest. Borrowing money has been going on forever, this isn't a new thing. There has always been some kind of interest being being paid for the process. As others have said, the only way 99% of people can buy anything is to use some kind of credit or deferred payment method. Actually, the other 1% use deferred payment methods all the time while some end up not even paying for things. People are paid once or twice a month yet bills come throughout the month. There are also times when that pay check doesn't cover emergencies, which is where credit cards come in. 

    The government is simply trying to stop as many cheaters as they can, something we pay taxes for. Of course, some people feel it's ok to cheat others as well as to blatantly steal from others (declaring bankruptcy is another one of those legal ways to not pay people what they are owed and is usually done by people with a lot of money). 

    You can continue to deflect from what's being presented with your comments or look at what's really going on and come up with constructive comments.
    Just to refresh your memory 

    https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/comment/3157455/#Comment_3157455 

    You know why people live pay check to pay check, they buying things they can not afford.  Yes there are emergencies and thus the reason you save money, Yes I know only 30% of the people in the US have any sorts of savings. This is not a failure of CC companies or a bank making as much profits as they can, this is a failure of individuals not taking responsibility for their own actions. Schools today do not spend a second teaching kids how to manage money or even how to balance a check book. However, I am more than willing to say parents should be teaching their kids how to manage money and what they spend. 

    This is not any failure of the government or even big evil credit card companies collect interest from people willing to pay it. It is simply a failure of individual not willing to have some level of self control. I am not deflecting, it is called root cause analysis and when you fix the root cause then they solve the real problem, today it is easier to attack the symptom I.e. high interest rate, than fix people's bad behavior. As i said in another post, my kids do not have this issue so I took care of my responsibilities.

    This is no different than people saying Apple products cost too much and they need to lower their price so everyone can buy one. Why does everyone need to buy Apple products. Well we heard this argument about security, only those who can afford Apple actually have good security. Instead of the competition stepping up their game and fixing their problems, we have our government trying to degrade the security of Apple products. I know that is a reach but, that is the kind of solution you get when you ask the government to solve a personal problem. 

    If you look at this graph and go to creditcards.com where this came from you will see the same group of people defaulting on student loans also make up over 50% of the default on CC payments. We now have a whole generation of debtors who think it is okay to walk away from their responsibility, Thus the reason Bernie is all about giving them free stuff and these same people support him.

    I remember when banks use to do all kinds of things to get people as clients such as giving high interest on savings and interest bearing checking. Today they do none of this because they found people more than willing to pay them high interests on CC. They are using this profits to make investments in things like mortgages or small business loans which have a lower default rate and are back with colleterial.  If everyone paid off their cards all the time, I bet banks would be dropping interest rates to get customers and hope they would not pay it off or go back to paying higher interest in savings and checking.

    BTW my interest rate on my main card which I always pay off is 7.5% has been that way since I got it, the CC company was willing to give me a low rate just to get wife and I as customers. 
    Nobody’s giving anyone “free stuff”. I for one would like to live in a community, a nation, where tax dollars benefit the community. This is simply a reallocation of resources. We all benefit from a literate, educated society. 

    Furthermore, get off your high horse with this personal responsibility BS. Wealth disparity is a  very real, global epidemic. Money is a finite resource; it’s immoral that so few have so much, while so many have so little. This is not a result of lazy progressives, but rather greedy corporations who have prioritized profit over people. 

    EDIT: typo 
    edited May 2019
  • Reply 34 of 35
    maestro64 said:
    rob53 said:
    "Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez announced new legislation Thursday to cap credit card interest rates at 15%, a move that they said will help protect consumers from the "greed" of the credit card and banking industries."

    USA Today, May 9, 2019

    Before people start screaming about this being political, just think about what AI is saying in this article about Citigroup. Credit Card companies are today's LEGAL loansharks and very few people in our government are doing anything to stop it. 

    "Goldman Sachs seeks to disrupt consumer finance by putting the customer first," claimed a Goldman Sachs spokesman. "We are excited for customers to use Apple Card, which is designed to help people take control of their financial lives."

    At least there is one company trying to buck the trend. I'm sure Goldman Sachs and Apple are still making some money on this deal but like medical insurance companies, there's no reason why credit cad companies should be making a vulgar amount of money doing practically nothing.
    I will tell you again, like the last time you brought this up, you only pay interest if you are buying things you can not afford. If you use a CC to delay payment by 30 days and use someone else money for 30 days and pay it off then you do not pay interest. This is not a hard concept to understand. 

    The reason CC interest rates are high due is to the fact it is unsecure loan of money that any one can walk away from and people do every day. If you are willing to pay high interest rate on a card to helping those who choose to walk way from their debts.

    Stop expecting the government to fix your problem, learn how to manage money.
    It’s almost as if you have completely ignored the cost of living vs. stagnant wage growth for the past 30+ years. You must be fortunate. 

    Its not like the greater majority are putting putting the purchase of luxury items on their cards; many are paying for groceries, housing, utilities and other necessities, because corporate greed and the globalization of markets have made it nearly impossible To be part of what was once a thriving middle class. 

    Are there people out there not practicing personal responsibility/accountability? Of course. But you think that’s what’s creating an unethical, immoral wealth disparity on a global scale?

    Unbelievable. 
  • Reply 35 of 35
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,036member
    maestro64 said:
    rob53 said:
    "Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez announced new legislation Thursday to cap credit card interest rates at 15%, a move that they said will help protect consumers from the "greed" of the credit card and banking industries."

    USA Today, May 9, 2019

    Before people start screaming about this being political, just think about what AI is saying in this article about Citigroup. Credit Card companies are today's LEGAL loansharks and very few people in our government are doing anything to stop it. 

    "Goldman Sachs seeks to disrupt consumer finance by putting the customer first," claimed a Goldman Sachs spokesman. "We are excited for customers to use Apple Card, which is designed to help people take control of their financial lives."

    At least there is one company trying to buck the trend. I'm sure Goldman Sachs and Apple are still making some money on this deal but like medical insurance companies, there's no reason why credit cad companies should be making a vulgar amount of money doing practically nothing.
    I will tell you again, like the last time you brought this up, you only pay interest if you are buying things you can not afford. If you use a CC to delay payment by 30 days and use someone else money for 30 days and pay it off then you do not pay interest. This is not a hard concept to understand. 

    The reason CC interest rates are high due is to the fact it is unsecure loan of money that any one can walk away from and people do every day. If you are willing to pay high interest rate on a card to helping those who choose to walk way from their debts.

    Stop expecting the government to fix your problem, learn how to manage money.
    It’s almost as if you have completely ignored the cost of living vs. stagnant wage growth for the past 30+ years. You must be fortunate. 

    Its not like the greater majority are putting putting the purchase of luxury items on their cards; many are paying for groceries, housing, utilities and other necessities, because corporate greed and the globalization of markets have made it nearly impossible To be part of what was once a thriving middle class. 

    Are there people out there not practicing personal responsibility/accountability? Of course. But you think that’s what’s creating an unethical, immoral wealth disparity on a global scale?

    Unbelievable. 
    I will not disagree wages for most people have not grown that is a documented fact and easily verify at IRS.gov and wages for the first time are actually going up for everyone in the last 2 yrs. What is also easily document is the fact items today cost far less then they did 30 to 50 yrs ago when you consider how many hours the average person has to work to afford those items. 

    People today have much higher buying power than they did in the past as function of actual cost and real wages. There are lots of items you can buy today at a fraction of the cost of what they use to cost and the quality if far better so items last a lot longer. There is metric used today to measure people's buying power. You calculate how many hours you have to work based on your wages to afford something, like electricity, today it is the lowest it ever been, the same hold true for lots of things. 100 yrs ago the average person had to work 1hr to afford 1KWhr and today it is a fraction of an hour. You can do the exact same thing for various items and you will see even though people wages may not have gone up, what they can buy has increased.

    The average CC debit today is about $7K per person this number come from taking the total CC debt being report by the CC companies and dividing it by every person in the US, in reality not everyone has a CC and not everyone holds a balance. This number if really over $10K per person, I can tell you someone who has this much CC debt they are buying more then necessities. I had house of 4 and our yearly cost to run the house for necessities like utilities, food, and car gas was less than $10K per year and I do not live in a cheap cost of living area ( I have my yearly cost in quicken since 1991). This does not take into consideration mortgage, property taxes a car payment/repairs and other thing which is personal choice, but I did not max out my mortgaga and my cars are 10 yrs old and I do my own repairs. so I am not fortunate, I just do not buy what I can not or do not want to afford. I give you a real world example everyone can do, we go out to eat, when we do not buy the most expensive items on the menus, and we drink water verse soda and do not get desert. Our bill is $45 for 4 and our friend who we go out with their bill is $75 for 4.

    Here is another fact, there are less people living in poverty today than 30 yrs ago, why because of the companies you're complaining about making a profit. Without those companies making profits all of us and many people around the world would not have jobs making lots of money. Here is some good reading. I guess you rather work for the government and have everyone make the exact same things and everyone can afford all the same things verse having a choice.

    https://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of-the-greatest-and-most-remarkable-achievement-in-human-history-thanks-to-free-market-capitalism/
    https://fee.org/articles/capitalism-is-good-for-the-poor/

    I would recommend stop listening to the news and politician, they creating FUD so they get elected and they want people to give them more power over their every day life. BTW the government knows all this, they just pull one number from all the numbers to tell a story they want you to believe things are bad when reality they are not or if people made different personal choices their situation would be different.

    BTW, my Grandparent came to the US in the 1920's with nothing, my grandfather worked in the steel mills until he died in his 70's so he could provide for his 5 kids and wife. My dad and mom both works so they could provide for my sister and I and sometimes my dad worked 3 jobs to cover those extra bills.  Neither my sister or I started out with anything since our parent did not have anything to give us other than teaching us how to making on our own. Our parent made sure we had a good education which was something neither of our parents had. But we both worked hard for what we both have today and it did not always come easy. My parent retired with a saving no debt and do not have problem paying cost of living bills and their income was always about the medium income in the US and they live conformable today. 

    I would recommend stop blaming success self motivate drive people as the reason some people do not have what the most successful people have. This comment is specific to the US, since it know there are very evil people out these who are living of the back of the people in their country your are not seeing that in the US.
    edited June 2019
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