The fact of the matter is there is no no perfect input method. ]Touch is good for some actions, pencils good for some and a mouse good for others. Which method is best depends on the action being performed and the platform you’re using. There is clearly some overlap amongst the methods - with an iPad, there are some times where touch is better for typing (walking around, surveying a site, making notes,) and other times a keyboard is better.
Where a mouse excels is with fine actions such as selecting text or selecting small areas of the screen. You can adapt touch to make it manageable, but it’s just that - manageable, not ideal. I’ve used Numbers on my ipad - it works, but gets painful pretty quick; for many actions, a mouse is far superior. That doesn’t take away from the benefits of touch with an ipad, it’s just a statement of different strengths for different use cases.
From what I’ve read, it sounds like the mouse ‘support’ is (or was) initially intended as an accessibility feature, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it expands and evolves. It doesn’t have to be the same as with a Mac, but adding the complimentary strengths of a mouse could be a huge asset to the usable capabilities fo an iPad and significantly increase its usefulness.
Good, mouse support doesn’t belong on touch devices (except in exceptional circumstances). If you want to use a mouse then use macOS.
I’m pretty sure those who are clamoring for mouse support will be disappointed in how a mouse is supported in iPadOS. According to other reports the feature basically mimics touch gestures for those who cannot touch the screen. Apple’s own description says it’s not your standard desktop cursor so I expect there to be howling and recriminations over how mouse support works on an iPad. Those expecting their iPad to operate like their Mac are in for a surprise I think.
Just finger support is fine. The primary issue has been text selection. Now when docked it should be fine for things like google docs.
So, as I read this, Apple is announcing that their iPad is "Half Pregnant". That's not good. Apple didn't get to where they are by making half-baked solutions and taking half-way measures -- or by artificially restricting functionality in their devices.
The iPad has a problem: In order to expand from being primarily a content, output oriented device to being a "real computer" it needs an external keyboard. But currently, as soon as you attach that external keyboard it becomes the dreaded "touch screen laptop". There is one and only one logical solution that Mr Spock would approve: Add a full blown mouse driven cursor to the iPad's stable of external keyboards.
This is not a technical issue. Any debate is driven by marketing concerns and turf wars (it seems that the Mac world is fearful of the lowly iPad impinging on their turf).
This is where we need Steve: "This is crap. FIX IT!"
Incorrect. UX is not marketing. The debate on ipads with mouse (which is akin to laptops with touch) has jack to do with marketing and everything to do with positions on usability. More conspiracy theory on your part, which is what happens when people try to inject or apply motivations to people they don’t know.
And when used with a keyboard in laptop mode the UX sucks. Especially when paired with a monitor.
Some of the remote access clients sell an ipad app that has mouse support currently, just for remote client sessions. Citrix, Jump Desktop. Worth a look.
Holy crap, didn't know that - I use Jump Desktop to remote to work. This along with the new iPadOS features means I could use an iPad as my sole computer.
the current mouse support is useless. Just tried using Bluetooth mice.
No right click support, no text selection feature (no hover support), no remote desktop support. Pretty useless and does exactly finger can do, that is bad Apple
loads of crap excuses and can't implemented a good true pointer for iPad pro.
That’s because, so far at least, Apple isn’t apparently thinking of this regular mouse input. You can’t blame them for not doing something they aren’t wanting to do as though they just didn’t bother with it. We’re happy they’ve come this far. Apple has consistently stated that they don’t believe that mice are proper input sources for iOS. So the fact that they’ve enabled this for some people who find touch to be physically difficult, is just a start.
if it proves popular even in this mode, then Apple might decide to give extra support. For you to think that they’ve given us a mouse, but blew it, is just plain wrong.
remember that they didn’t want to open the file system either. But after the first timid step in iOS 11, they opened it more in 12, and now with 13, the floodgates are open. This could be the first step here as well. So stop being so sarcastic and negative, and understand what’s happening.
So, as I read this, Apple is announcing that their iPad is "Half Pregnant". That's not good. Apple didn't get to where they are by making half-baked solutions and taking half-way measures -- or by artificially restricting functionality in their devices.
The iPad has a problem: In order to expand from being primarily a content, output oriented device to being a "real computer" it needs an external keyboard. But currently, as soon as you attach that external keyboard it becomes the dreaded "touch screen laptop". There is one and only one logical solution that Mr Spock would approve: Add a full blown mouse driven cursor to the iPad's stable of external keyboards.
This is not a technical issue. Any debate is driven by marketing concerns and turf wars (it seems that the Mac world is fearful of the lowly iPad impinging on their turf).
This is where we need Steve: "This is crap. FIX IT!"
It’s not that simple. Yes, it seems that way. But iOS is touch driven. Do we really want just another laptop device? I don’t think so. So Apple has to tread carefully. More so even than a visible file system, a mouse changes the paradigm completely. A danger is that lazy developers will support mice as a primary input, even with Apple requiring touch as well. We really don’t want that, I think this is Apple with their toe in the water.
if they do enable full mouse support which, yes, I would like too, it will be a carefully thought out multi year plan. For all we know, those plans have already been made, because as we all should know, companies don’t lurch from year to year coming up with random features on an ad hock basis. It can take years to do it right.
some might remember that when iOS first came out, there was no cut/copy/paste. People complained about that as well. They could have done what Google did with Android, and allowed each developer to come up with their own half baked solutions that only worked on their own software, and was different for each app. When Apple finally did it, it was regarded as the best solution that could have been done, and worked across the OS with everything.
apple could be working on this in the same way, though for some, it seems easy—just do it. But maybe not that simple.
the biggest problem has been selection. I know, because sometimes it seems to be a struggle to select text. I mean a real struggle, where the only reliable way is to select all. When the first public beta comes out, if that’s already enabled, and it’s not buggy, we’ll see how much better it is. If it eliminates that struggle, then I would say that a big reason for a mouse has been bypassed. But still, yes, I would like that support. But it would seem less important. The main thing would be to not have to reach up when my 12.9 is in a start, where typing and pointing is clumsy.
right now I use the Pencil, and it works very well, though it’s a bit clumsy because you have to pick it up, and put it down. Not the worst, but not the best.
what I want, is for them to get text replacement working properly again. It hasn’t worked correctly for years.
Apple's statement makes no sense. A standard mouse with added options for accessibility wouldn't do the exact same thing?
IMO this is Apple again being unable to admit to being wrong. Like why we still have those keyboards on Mac laptops.
They've been wrong about this since the first keyboard appeared. Now there's keyboards and Pencils. It's ridiculous to claim "touch is all you need" and then sell devices to get around touch. Either issue refunds for all those keyboards and Pencils and rip out bluetooth so it's truly touch only or give the user fully functioning options.
There’s no way I could ever use a physical keyboard without a trackpad so I’ll never be using one with an iPad Pro.
I'll catch myself trying to tap the screen on my MacBook Pro or use the trackpad on my iPad on a fairly regular basis.
The keyboard integration with iOS on the iPad is actually very good. I use a lot of keyboard shortcuts and they are almost identical. The nice thing on the iPad is if you hold down the command key, an onscreen display pops up showing you what keyboard shortcuts are available.
Good, mouse support doesn’t belong on touch devices (except in exceptional circumstances). If you want to use a mouse then use macOS.
I’m pretty sure those who are clamoring for mouse support will be disappointed in how a mouse is supported in iPadOS. According to other reports the feature basically mimics touch gestures for those who cannot touch the screen. Apple’s own description says it’s not your standard desktop cursor so I expect there to be howling and recriminations over how mouse support works on an iPad. Those expecting their iPad to operate like their Mac are in for a surprise I think.
Well yeh, if Apple does a half-ass job implementing it, people will be dissapointed. That shouldn't be a surprise.
So, as I read this, Apple is announcing that their iPad is "Half Pregnant". That's not good. Apple didn't get to where they are by making half-baked solutions and taking half-way measures -- or by artificially restricting functionality in their devices.
The iPad has a problem: In order to expand from being primarily a content, output oriented device to being a "real computer" it needs an external keyboard. But currently, as soon as you attach that external keyboard it becomes the dreaded "touch screen laptop". There is one and only one logical solution that Mr Spock would approve: Add a full blown mouse driven cursor to the iPad's stable of external keyboards.
This is not a technical issue. Any debate is driven by marketing concerns and turf wars (it seems that the Mac world is fearful of the lowly iPad impinging on their turf).
This is where we need Steve: "This is crap. FIX IT!"
Incorrect. UX is not marketing. The debate on ipads with mouse (which is akin to laptops with touch) has jack to do with marketing and everything to do with positions on usability. More conspiracy theory on your part, which is what happens when people try to inject or apply motivations to people they don’t know.
I'll repeat: This [full implementation of a cursor on the iPad] is not a technical issue. Any debate is driven by
marketing concerns and turf wars (it seems that the Mac world is fearful
of the lowly iPad impinging on their turf).
This is where we need Steve: "This is crap. FIX IT!"
That's not a conspiracy theory. It is reality. Apple has already implemented all the basic features of a mouse on the iPad -- they just have not connected them to the mouse. That makes it an administrative (marketing and turf-war) decision rather than a technical issue or limitation.
I find that very UnAppleLike. Perhaps, they have let the Mac line grow so weak that they are afraid to let the iPad become a "real computer".
So, as I read this, Apple is announcing that their iPad is "Half Pregnant". That's not good. Apple didn't get to where they are by making half-baked solutions and taking half-way measures -- or by artificially restricting functionality in their devices.
The iPad has a problem: In order to expand from being primarily a content, output oriented device to being a "real computer" it needs an external keyboard. But currently, as soon as you attach that external keyboard it becomes the dreaded "touch screen laptop". There is one and only one logical solution that Mr Spock would approve: Add a full blown mouse driven cursor to the iPad's stable of external keyboards.
This is not a technical issue. Any debate is driven by marketing concerns and turf wars (it seems that the Mac world is fearful of the lowly iPad impinging on their turf).
This is where we need Steve: "This is crap. FIX IT!"
It’s not that simple. Yes, it seems that way. But iOS is touch driven. Do we really want just another laptop device? I don’t think so. So Apple has to tread carefully. More so even than a visible file system, a mouse changes the paradigm completely. A danger is that lazy developers will support mice as a primary input, even with Apple requiring touch as well. We really don’t want that, I think this is Apple with their toe in the water.
if they do enable full mouse support which, yes, I would like too, it will be a carefully thought out multi year plan. For all we know, those plans have already been made, because as we all should know, companies don’t lurch from year to year coming up with random features on an ad hock basis. It can take years to do it right.
some might remember that when iOS first came out, there was no cut/copy/paste. People complained about that as well. They could have done what Google did with Android, and allowed each developer to come up with their own half baked solutions that only worked on their own software, and was different for each app. When Apple finally did it, it was regarded as the best solution that could have been done, and worked across the OS with everything.
apple could be working on this in the same way, though for some, it seems easy—just do it. But maybe not that simple.
the biggest problem has been selection. I know, because sometimes it seems to be a struggle to select text. I mean a real struggle, where the only reliable way is to select all. When the first public beta comes out, if that’s already enabled, and it’s not buggy, we’ll see how much better it is. If it eliminates that struggle, then I would say that a big reason for a mouse has been bypassed. But still, yes, I would like that support. But it would seem less important. The main thing would be to not have to reach up when my 12.9 is in a start, where typing and pointing is clumsy.
right now I use the Pencil, and it works very well, though it’s a bit clumsy because you have to pick it up, and put it down. Not the worst, but not the best.
what I want, is for them to get text replacement working properly again. It hasn’t worked correctly for years.
I totally disagree with your premise that "a mouse changes the paradigm completely" Apple has already implemented all the basic functions performed by a mouse -- they simply haven't connected them to mouse. Adding mouse changes very little -- except to make a typist's life a lot easier.
As for the "multi year plan": It looks a lot like foot dragging from here.
There’s no way I could ever use a physical keyboard without a trackpad so I’ll never be using one with an iPad Pro.
For a long document, its still preferable to an onscreen keyboard. But I agree, it's not the best. So does Apple: They've said touchscreen laptops suck.
I asked for mouse support since I use iPad 2. People commented me “absolutely nonsense by then. When Apple said iPad “is” a computer, I said until iPad has 1) mouse support, 2) multi windows as good as a real Mac / Windows PCs and 3) much more and user-upgradable main memory to support real-multi applications, AND, multi users like a Mac. Now I can say just a mouse support, makes the iPadOS-based iPad a small step closer.
Typing this on a Bluetooth keyboard on iPad mini 2, would love to see this feature otherwise I mainly use my windows hybrid tablet/laptop, or android tablet with keyboard and mouse bluetoothed, they just need to face it iPads will kill off a large majority of MacBooks, but in all honest it was bound to happen
Typing this on a Bluetooth keyboard on iPad mini 2, would love to see this feature otherwise I mainly use my windows hybrid tablet/laptop, or android tablet with keyboard and mouse bluetoothed, they just need to face it iPads will kill off a large majority of MacBooks, but in all honest it was bound to happen
I don't think so... The iPad will still be predominantly a handheld touch based device. Adding an external keyboard and mouse expands its capabilities but doesn't change he basic form factor.
While I think that it will eat away some of the Mac customer base, that will be the low-end, minority. Basically I see those whose work load is 70%-30% iPad vs Mac going for the iPad with external keyboard and mouse and vice-versa going for the a MacBook. And some of course will continue to buy both.
So, as I read this, Apple is announcing that their iPad is "Half Pregnant". That's not good. Apple didn't get to where they are by making half-baked solutions and taking half-way measures -- or by artificially restricting functionality in their devices.
The iPad has a problem: In order to expand from being primarily a content, output oriented device to being a "real computer" it needs an external keyboard. But currently, as soon as you attach that external keyboard it becomes the dreaded "touch screen laptop". There is one and only one logical solution that Mr Spock would approve: Add a full blown mouse driven cursor to the iPad's stable of external keyboards.
This is not a technical issue. Any debate is driven by marketing concerns and turf wars (it seems that the Mac world is fearful of the lowly iPad impinging on their turf).
This is where we need Steve: "This is crap. FIX IT!"
It’s not that simple. Yes, it seems that way. But iOS is touch driven. Do we really want just another laptop device? I don’t think so. So Apple has to tread carefully. More so even than a visible file system, a mouse changes the paradigm completely. A danger is that lazy developers will support mice as a primary input, even with Apple requiring touch as well. We really don’t want that, I think this is Apple with their toe in the water.
if they do enable full mouse support which, yes, I would like too, it will be a carefully thought out multi year plan. For all we know, those plans have already been made, because as we all should know, companies don’t lurch from year to year coming up with random features on an ad hock basis. It can take years to do it right.
some might remember that when iOS first came out, there was no cut/copy/paste. People complained about that as well. They could have done what Google did with Android, and allowed each developer to come up with their own half baked solutions that only worked on their own software, and was different for each app. When Apple finally did it, it was regarded as the best solution that could have been done, and worked across the OS with everything.
apple could be working on this in the same way, though for some, it seems easy—just do it. But maybe not that simple.
the biggest problem has been selection. I know, because sometimes it seems to be a struggle to select text. I mean a real struggle, where the only reliable way is to select all. When the first public beta comes out, if that’s already enabled, and it’s not buggy, we’ll see how much better it is. If it eliminates that struggle, then I would say that a big reason for a mouse has been bypassed. But still, yes, I would like that support. But it would seem less important. The main thing would be to not have to reach up when my 12.9 is in a start, where typing and pointing is clumsy.
right now I use the Pencil, and it works very well, though it’s a bit clumsy because you have to pick it up, and put it down. Not the worst, but not the best.
what I want, is for them to get text replacement working properly again. It hasn’t worked correctly for years.
I totally disagree with your premise that "a mouse changes the paradigm completely" Apple has already implemented all the basic functions performed by a mouse -- they simply haven't connected them to mouse. Adding mouse changes very little -- except to make a typist's life a lot easier.
As for the "multi year plan": It looks a lot like foot dragging from here.
It changes a lot, because a lot of people, possibly even most of them, coming from a standard computer, will latch upon that mouse, because they’re familiar with it. Though this still a strange thing on a large screen to a lot of people, who just type short messages on their phone.
you can call it what you like, ut if Apple has a plan here, and we don’t know either way, they are going to do what they usually do, which is to tackle it a step at a time. Aging it to accessibility could be just a test of interest. We really don’t know.
Some of the remote access clients sell an ipad app that has mouse support currently, just for remote client sessions. Citrix, Jump Desktop. Worth a look.
Holy crap, didn't know that - I use Jump Desktop to remote to work. This along with the new iPadOS features means I could use an iPad as my sole computer.
Comments
Where a mouse excels is with fine actions such as selecting text or selecting small areas of the screen. You can adapt touch to make it manageable, but it’s just that - manageable, not ideal. I’ve used Numbers on my ipad - it works, but gets painful pretty quick; for many actions, a mouse is far superior. That doesn’t take away from the benefits of touch with an ipad, it’s just a statement of different strengths for different use cases.
From what I’ve read, it sounds like the mouse ‘support’ is (or was) initially intended as an accessibility feature, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it expands and evolves. It doesn’t have to be the same as with a Mac, but adding the complimentary strengths of a mouse could be a huge asset to the usable capabilities fo an iPad and significantly increase its usefulness.
And when used with a keyboard in laptop mode the UX sucks. Especially when paired with a monitor.
if it proves popular even in this mode, then Apple might decide to give extra support. For you to think that they’ve given us a mouse, but blew it, is just plain wrong.
remember that they didn’t want to open the file system either. But after the first timid step in iOS 11, they opened it more in 12, and now with 13, the floodgates are open. This could be the first step here as well. So stop being so sarcastic and negative, and understand what’s happening.
if they do enable full mouse support which, yes, I would like too, it will be a carefully thought out multi year plan. For all we know, those plans have already been made, because as we all should know, companies don’t lurch from year to year coming up with random features on an ad hock basis. It can take years to do it right.
some might remember that when iOS first came out, there was no cut/copy/paste. People complained about that as well. They could have done what Google did with Android, and allowed each developer to come up with their own half baked solutions that only worked on their own software, and was different for each app. When Apple finally did it, it was regarded as the best solution that could have been done, and worked across the OS with everything.
apple could be working on this in the same way, though for some, it seems easy—just do it. But maybe not that simple.
the biggest problem has been selection. I know, because sometimes it seems to be a struggle to select text. I mean a real struggle, where the only reliable way is to select all. When the first public beta comes out, if that’s already enabled, and it’s not buggy, we’ll see how much better it is. If it eliminates that struggle, then I would say that a big reason for a mouse has been bypassed. But still, yes, I would like that support. But it would seem less important. The main thing would be to not have to reach up when my 12.9 is in a start, where typing and pointing is clumsy.
right now I use the Pencil, and it works very well, though it’s a bit clumsy because you have to pick it up, and put it down. Not the worst, but not the best.
what I want, is for them to get text replacement working properly again. It hasn’t worked correctly for years.
The keyboard integration with iOS on the iPad is actually very good. I use a lot of keyboard shortcuts and they are almost identical. The nice thing on the iPad is if you hold down the command key, an onscreen display pops up showing you what keyboard shortcuts are available.
This [full implementation of a cursor on the iPad] is not a technical issue. Any debate is driven by marketing concerns and turf wars (it seems that the Mac world is fearful of the lowly iPad impinging on their turf).
This is where we need Steve: "This is crap. FIX IT!"
That's not a conspiracy theory.
It is reality.
Apple has already implemented all the basic features of a mouse on the iPad -- they just have not connected them to the mouse. That makes it an administrative (marketing and turf-war) decision rather than a technical issue or limitation.
I find that very UnAppleLike.
Perhaps, they have let the Mac line grow so weak that they are afraid to let the iPad become a "real computer".
Apple has already implemented all the basic functions performed by a mouse -- they simply haven't connected them to mouse. Adding mouse changes very little -- except to make a typist's life a lot easier.
As for the "multi year plan": It looks a lot like foot dragging from here.
But I agree, it's not the best. So does Apple: They've said touchscreen laptops suck.
Now I can say just a mouse support, makes the iPadOS-based iPad a small step closer.
The iPad will still be predominantly a handheld touch based device. Adding an external keyboard and mouse expands its capabilities but doesn't change he basic form factor.
While I think that it will eat away some of the Mac customer base, that will be the low-end, minority. Basically I see those whose work load is 70%-30% iPad vs Mac going for the iPad with external keyboard and mouse and vice-versa going for the a MacBook. And some of course will continue to buy both.
you can call it what you like, ut if Apple has a plan here, and we don’t know either way, they are going to do what they usually do, which is to tackle it a step at a time. Aging it to accessibility could be just a test of interest. We really don’t know.