Hands on with Cycle, Apple's new menstrual cycle tracker in iOS 13 [u]

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 40
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    If a person is genuinely crazy, an app isn’t going to solve their problem.

    Disrepectful and completely wrong simultaneously.  Way to stay on brand.
    The post I replied to mentioned “mental health” and i submit an app can do nothing for a genuinely mentally unbalanced person (aka a crazy person). What’s the problem?
  • Reply 22 of 40
    hexohexo Posts: 3member
    Ooh does it track basal temp? Cervical fluid/position? Or how in the heck is it making fertility predictions?
  • Reply 23 of 40
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,357member
    Oh look, another one. Hint: feminism isn’t a bad word or idea, unless equal rights and treatment is bad in your book. 

    Sorry, but no, been on this and other tech sites long enough to see the pattern — extreme discomfort and disdain from guys when there is talk about gurls in the clubhouse.
    I'm on the fence about the clubhouse remark. I truly expected to see a litany of derisive, spiteful, and generally insulting comments, and am please that this didn't happen. Or maybe it's just early.

    I don't think AI encourages those kinds of attacks – my defining metric for a 'clubhouse' atmosphere. But I think they refrain from much curation and editing, possibly to avoid cries of 'Censorship!' and 'First amendment rights violations!!' The latter always makes me laugh, a lot. Otherwise, I think the extreme discomfort remarks is spot on. 

    MacUser (?) magazine was a good read, particularly their letters column. When a hater wrote in with baseless diatribe, they got topic appropriate Carrot Weather-like responses from the editors. I'd like to see that here. Maybe, LOL.
  • Reply 24 of 40
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    macgui said:
    Oh look, another one. Hint: feminism isn’t a bad word or idea, unless equal rights and treatment is bad in your book. 

    Sorry, but no, been on this and other tech sites long enough to see the pattern — extreme discomfort and disdain from guys when there is talk about gurls in the clubhouse.
    I'm on the fence about the clubhouse remark. I truly expected to see a litany of derisive, spiteful, and generally insulting comments, and am please that this didn't happen. Or maybe it's just early.

    I don't think AI encourages those kinds of attacks – my defining metric for a 'clubhouse' atmosphere. But I think they refrain from much curation and editing, possibly to avoid cries of 'Censorship!' and 'First amendment rights violations!!' The latter always makes me laugh, a lot. Otherwise, I think the extreme discomfort remarks is spot on. 

    MacUser (?) magazine was a good read, particularly their letters column. When a hater wrote in with baseless diatribe, they got topic appropriate Carrot Weather-like responses from the editors. I'd like to see that here. Maybe, LOL.
    There were. And they were deleted.
    dysamoriafastasleep
  • Reply 25 of 40
    bill42bill42 Posts: 131member
    This is the first Health app that will be truly useful for my wife and two daughters, and I think it will help millions of people. 
    macseekerdysamoria
  • Reply 26 of 40
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    macgui said:
    Oh look, another one. Hint: feminism isn’t a bad word or idea, unless equal rights and treatment is bad in your book. 

    Sorry, but no, been on this and other tech sites long enough to see the pattern — extreme discomfort and disdain from guys when there is talk about gurls in the clubhouse.
    I'm on the fence about the clubhouse remark. I truly expected to see a litany of derisive, spiteful, and generally insulting comments, and am please that this didn't happen. Or maybe it's just early.

    I don't think AI encourages those kinds of attacks – my defining metric for a 'clubhouse' atmosphere. But I think they refrain from much curation and editing, possibly to avoid cries of 'Censorship!' and 'First amendment rights violations!!' The latter always makes me laugh, a lot. Otherwise, I think the extreme discomfort remarks is spot on. 

    MacUser (?) magazine was a good read, particularly their letters column. When a hater wrote in with baseless diatribe, they got topic appropriate Carrot Weather-like responses from the editors. I'd like to see that here. Maybe, LOL.
    There were. And they were deleted.
    You already deleted the sexist comments?! I can't even imagine what those were when I just read a thread that included equating a woman's mensural cycle to being as authentic as a novelty item from the 1970s. 🤯
    dysamoria
  • Reply 27 of 40
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    Soli said:
    macgui said:
    Oh look, another one. Hint: feminism isn’t a bad word or idea, unless equal rights and treatment is bad in your book. 

    Sorry, but no, been on this and other tech sites long enough to see the pattern — extreme discomfort and disdain from guys when there is talk about gurls in the clubhouse.
    I'm on the fence about the clubhouse remark. I truly expected to see a litany of derisive, spiteful, and generally insulting comments, and am please that this didn't happen. Or maybe it's just early.

    I don't think AI encourages those kinds of attacks – my defining metric for a 'clubhouse' atmosphere. But I think they refrain from much curation and editing, possibly to avoid cries of 'Censorship!' and 'First amendment rights violations!!' The latter always makes me laugh, a lot. Otherwise, I think the extreme discomfort remarks is spot on. 

    MacUser (?) magazine was a good read, particularly their letters column. When a hater wrote in with baseless diatribe, they got topic appropriate Carrot Weather-like responses from the editors. I'd like to see that here. Maybe, LOL.
    There were. And they were deleted.
    You already deleted the sexist comments?! I can't even imagine what those were when I just read a thread that included equating a woman's mensural cycle to being as authentic as a novelty item from the 1970s. 🤯
    That one toes up to the line. It was way, way worse.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 28 of 40
    1348513485 Posts: 347member
    You already deleted the sexist comments?! I can't even imagine what those were when I just read a thread that included equating a woman's mensural cycle to being as authentic as a novelty item from the 1970s. 🤯
    That one toes up to the line. It was way, way worse.
    Shouldn't there be a "troglodytes.com" site for most of those people? Cripes, it's the 21st Century already. How did we get so far off track?
    StrangeDaysdysamoriafastasleep
  • Reply 29 of 40
    JinTechJinTech Posts: 1,022member
    ...am I rightly or wrongly reminded of the 'mood ring'... ? Does this also have potentially broad and obvious privacy considerations...? Liability for dating apps? I would also ask naively if we want even more people on this planet... The list goes on... There is an Apple promotion of privacy and yet announcement of apps that drill down into the most intimate and personal fundamental aspects of human biology? Does the frog boiling continue at an accelerating pace? What might result if a hack, a bug, a war or simply an EULA change launches all this into the wild?
    What on earth are you on about? Did you raise these questions when HealthKit was announced? The heart rate data? Any of the dozens of other metrics in HK? The fact that you can record medical test results in HK? Etc.. 

    It comes down to -- who do you trust? I personally trust Apple, its values, its business model, its privacy techniques, and its security practices. In all the years of iTunes use I've never been compromised. From what I see every year on their commitment to privacy, I don't see reason to start worrying now. If you are, don't use it.


    Long ago, and the first thing I do on any iOS 'upgrade' now is check the intimidating burden of permissions that come with a phone that was introduced by Steve Jobs as 'needing no manual'... I have never even opened the 'healthkit' app, along with many others...

    ...even the field for loading of contact photos into contacts (by others) and then synching with iCloud has been a concern - Apple presumably has all this data, personal images volunteered by others without permission innocently enough, encrypted or not and under Apple control, at least for now...

    I would have preferred a distributed cloud option on local apple server software for 'in house' local storage, although there are of course pros and cons to that as well...

    ...is it all at least potentially subversively sinister in both design and execution...?

    ...you ask 'who do you trust...?' Apple is a for profit corporation in the USA governed by the Patriot Act and a rather unprecedented governance at the moment. Does that even deserve further qualification on the 75th anniversary of D day...?

    Clearly this portion of the app is not indeed for you, as I don’t think, correct me if I’m wrong, that you’re a woman.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 30 of 40
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    chasm said:
    ...am I rightly or wrongly reminded of the 'mood ring'... ?
    Thank you for reminding us that Apple hasn't yet done enough in the Health app to promote MENTAL health.
    If a person is genuinely crazy, an app isn’t going to solve their problem.
    What is “genuinely crazy”?
  • Reply 31 of 40
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    It takes an article like this (actually the comments on the article, not the article itself) to remind us that this site is usually like a "no girls allowed" clubhouse.

    I'm glad AI was able to find a woman to write an informative and meaningful piece to explain this interesting app.
    The comments weren't sexist.

    Anyone who's been here long enough knows as soon as you say something true about feminism, the white knights come rushing in.

    So no it's more like a "girls rule boys drool" clubhouse.
    I didn't accuse anyone of sexism.  But we agree about this being a boy's club.  From my wife and daughter's perspective menstruation is a major health/wellness/quality of life issue.  For ignorant guys like me it's a tangential "moodiness" topic.  Just sayin' we sound tone deaf and stupid when we discuss this topic.  It's not about feminism and white knights.  It's about the AI community being almost exclusively male and ignorant of this topic (as we are on lots of other topics we opine about, frankly).
    I highly recommend learning about this topic (and the others of which you acknowledge being ignorant). Men being ignorant about women’s bodies and lives is a huge part of the problem. Becoming informed will help you be less tone deaf. The women in your life would potentially appreciate your willingness to learn more about their existence.
  • Reply 32 of 40
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    hexo said:
    Ooh does it track basal temp? Cervical fluid/position? Or how in the heck is it making fertility predictions?
    This stuff is usually important to track, but I don’t recall it being mentioned in the article. Did we miss it?
  • Reply 33 of 40
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    Everybody dial it back a bit.
  • Reply 34 of 40
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,005member
    Everybody dial it back a bit.
    Funny how half the internet's traffic is videos and images of women's biology, and state legislatures are jam-packed with creative bills for new laws about women's biology, but it's an article about a menstrual cycle app that sends the guys over the edge.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 35 of 40
    1348513485 Posts: 347member
    Everybody dial it back a bit.
    Sound advice for almost everything in your life  :D
  • Reply 36 of 40
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    AppleZulu said:
    Everybody dial it back a bit.
    Funny how half the internet's traffic is videos and images of women's biology, and state legislatures are jam-packed with creative bills for new laws about women's biology, but it's an article about a menstrual cycle app that sends the guys over the edge.

    There was an unnecessary jab in the article that could easily be disproven. I'm sure 99.9% of the male population couldn't care less about this app.

    With that said, respect the moderators advice.
    edited June 2019
  • Reply 37 of 40
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,040member
    It takes an article like this (actually the comments on the article, not the article itself) to remind us that this site is usually like a "no girls allowed" clubhouse.

    I'm glad AI was able to find a woman to write an informative and meaningful piece to explain this interesting app.
    And it's a shame if she is reading some of the comments right now.

    Some AI participants' heads seem to be stuck in 1819, not 2019.

    Perhaps it would be beneficial if the moderation team would delete all the comments and lock the thread. Clearly some AI participants are incapable of discussing as adults bodily functions that have existed as long as there have been human beings.
    edited June 2019 fastasleep
  • Reply 38 of 40

    ...am I rightly or wrongly reminded of the 'mood ring'... ? Does this also have potentially broad and obvious privacy considerations...? Liability for dating apps? I would also ask naively if we want even more people on this planet... The list goes on... There is an Apple promotion of privacy and yet announcement of apps that drill down into the most intimate and personal fundamental aspects of human biology? Does the frog boiling continue at an accelerating pace? What might result if a hack, a bug, a war or simply an EULA change launches all this into the wild?
    You do know this is voluntary on the part of women that put this information in, right?  It's not as if Apple is demanding, as part of the EULA that women must now record their cycles in the Health App, or the iPhone stops working.

    (since we're talking about blood...) Kind of like when I started recording my blood sugar data in it from the Dexcom App.

    Hack - what will someone do with this data...  "It seems that Sheila Jones has her period every 29 days...  How can we use this to get money from her...?"

    Bug - Sheila Jones - "Wait!  it says I should be having my period now, and it's only been 6 days!  I better go buy some supplies, because my iPhone is ALWAYS right!"

    War - I'm sure Sheila will have bigger problems if there is a war and her cycle data falls into the hands of the enemy.  "Oh crap... they know when my cycle is coming up."

    EULA - How about... "Stop giving them data"?

    I have a better question:  What if Apple made a straw man app, and brought it out every time something they didn't like happened?
  • Reply 39 of 40
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,320moderator
    If a person is genuinely crazy, an app isn’t going to solve their problem.

    Disrepectful and completely wrong simultaneously.  Way to stay on brand.
    The post I replied to mentioned “mental health” and i submit an app can do nothing for a genuinely mentally unbalanced person (aka a crazy person). What’s the problem?
    Mental health doesn't just cover behavior that you'd consider craziness. It also includes things like postnatal depression:

    https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/postnatal-depression-and-perinatal-mental-health/
    https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/

    I think it would be helpful if some behavior was classified in different groups so that emotional well-being is separate from things like schizophrenia. New mothers shouldn't be grouped under the same category as people who want to knife random strangers.

    As for whether an app would help or not, it depends. Someone with anger management issues could get warnings on a watch that they are getting over-exerted and should try to calm down. People with these disorders often want to help themselves to stop being like that and don't know when their behavior is off because they have normalized it. Apple's devices and software aren't nanny devices, they are self-help devices that people opt-in to.

    Some of Apple's health tracking would make it easier for a doctor to diagnose emotional ill-health. If a new mother is being sick a lot, not moving around, having poor sleeping conditions, not eating properly, has a low mood for long periods of time, a doctor could get the warnings and treat them without the person even having to ask a doctor for help. People with low energy or ill-health won't always have the strength or motivation to do that themselves or may not know when their symptoms are abnormal. Even if it only helped a small amount of people, those people mean something to someone and if getting help in difficult circumstances makes a life-changing decision then it's worth having.
  • Reply 40 of 40
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    AppleZulu said:
    said:
    Everybody dial it back a bit.
    Funny how half the internet's traffic is videos and images of women's biology, and state legislatures are jam-packed with creative bills for new laws about women's biology, but it's an article about a menstrual cycle app that sends the guys over the edge.
    You mean just like a pro-(insert name of current President) post would sent their political opposition into spasmodic anti-(insert name of current President) eruptions?
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