YouTuber reveals 'iPhone 11' models, claims few changes

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 89
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    It used to be that Apple made things that looked better from the back than their competitors looked from the front.  I really hope they've got something special in the works for 2020, because that bump is grotesque.
    Really. When you use your phone what side do you look at? What side matters the most? When was the last time you looked at the back of your phone? Does it really matter why it looks like. What matters is that IT JUST WORKS.
    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

    It's ok that aesthetics don't matter to you.  Other people think differently.  I like for things to look nice as well as work, especially when I'm paying as much as an iPhone costs.
    That new bump with the three lenses does look nice and aesthetically pleasing. We agree to disagree.
    Interesting that you make the point since you think it doesn't matter what it looks like, but fair enough.  I think you're in a tiny minority.
    So, do you want the improved imaging and video, not to mention A/R, or not?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 89
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,989member
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    It used to be that Apple made things that looked better from the back than their competitors looked from the front.  I really hope they've got something special in the works for 2020, because that bump is grotesque.
    Really. When you use your phone what side do you look at? What side matters the most? When was the last time you looked at the back of your phone? Does it really matter why it looks like. What matters is that IT JUST WORKS.
    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

    It's ok that aesthetics don't matter to you.  Other people think differently.  I like for things to look nice as well as work, especially when I'm paying as much as an iPhone costs.
    That new bump with the three lenses does look nice and aesthetically pleasing. We agree to disagree.
    Interesting that you make the point since you think it doesn't matter what it looks like, but fair enough.  I think you're in a tiny minority.
    So, do you want the improved imaging and video, not to mention A/R, or not?
    Not sure what relevance that has, but they're not features I'm particularly interested in.  Moreover, those features aren't contingent on a square camera bump in the corner.
  • Reply 43 of 89
    tmay said:
    tmay said:

    The Pixel 4's design isn't stolen from Apple.  Both the Pixel 4 and the alleged iPhone 11 were "inspired" by Huawei's design from last year's Mate Pro 20.  MKBHD even shows one in comparison in the video above.  That camera module is ugly.  Will it keep people from buying the phone?  No, but it's still ugly.  No one, not even the members of the ADF have said otherwise.
    I'm not sure how you would even know if Apple was "inspired" by Huawei, given the number of variations of camera bump configuration and placement on their various P, Mate, and Honor models.

    Huawei certainly hasn't yet converged all of its designs to any single camera placement, but Apple has, since the first iPhone.
    How is this even an argument?  They haven't converged their camera placement in their budget, mid-tier, and premium lines into one design... uh, okay I guess.  I don't even know what that means in the context of this conversation.  It's irrelevant anyway.  I was pretty specific.  I claimed they were inspired by "Huawei's design from last year's Mate Pro 20" not just Huawei in general.   
    Yeah, you "claimed", but why wouldn't I accurately also claim that Apple designed their configuration without regard to Huawei?". Do you actually think that Apple designs its products in mere weeks or months, which they would have had to if they had copied the Mate 20, which was only announced in late October of last year?

    Apple hasn't changed their placement, ever, and they certainly have the engineering and design to create their own optimized camera array that just coincidentally has an appearance like the Mate 20's "square" without actually being anywhere close to the same internal design. 

    A better question is why doesn't Huawei have a consistent design language? Likely it's because Huawei builds a shit ton of different models in a year, and Apple only currently builds three, and they all follow the same design language.
    Opinions.  Were discussing opinions.  You can't accurately claim anything, because it's an opinion.  Just like mine.  You can agree with it or disagree with it.  But whatever you do, please stop trying to move the goalpost with specious arguments.  No one is claiming Apple changed their camera placement.  My first post in this thread even mentions that Apple has always had their placement in the left corner.  But that isn't what the discussion is about and you know it.  No is arguing anything about a same internal design.  You're just making up stuff to obfuscate.  Huawei's consistency in design language isn't a better question, it's more obfuscation and deflection.  That camera module is definitely not consistent with Apple's camera design language.  I say it's inspired by the Mate 20 Pro's design.  You say it's not.   But you've introduced so many tertiary arguments that this is...  It's all good.  We disagree.  Let's leave it there.
    avon b7chemengin1
  • Reply 44 of 89
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    It used to be that Apple made things that looked better from the back than their competitors looked from the front.  I really hope they've got something special in the works for 2020, because that bump is grotesque.
    Really. When you use your phone what side do you look at? What side matters the most? When was the last time you looked at the back of your phone? Does it really matter why it looks like. What matters is that IT JUST WORKS.
    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

    It's ok that aesthetics don't matter to you.  Other people think differently.  I like for things to look nice as well as work, especially when I'm paying as much as an iPhone costs.
    That new bump with the three lenses does look nice and aesthetically pleasing. We agree to disagree.
    Interesting that you make the point since you think it doesn't matter what it looks like, but fair enough.  I think you're in a tiny minority.
    So, do you want the improved imaging and video, not to mention A/R, or not?
    Not sure what relevance that has, but they're not features I'm particularly interested in.  Moreover, those features aren't contingent on a square camera bump in the corner.

    So, where should that camera bump go, and what should it look like?

    Given that Apple has always placed its camera(s) in that corner, I'm not sure why moving it makes any sense. 

    This is your opportunity to demonstrate your design skills; where should it go, and why?
    edited July 17 StrangeDaysuraharawatto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 89
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:

    The Pixel 4's design isn't stolen from Apple.  Both the Pixel 4 and the alleged iPhone 11 were "inspired" by Huawei's design from last year's Mate Pro 20.  MKBHD even shows one in comparison in the video above.  That camera module is ugly.  Will it keep people from buying the phone?  No, but it's still ugly.  No one, not even the members of the ADF have said otherwise.
    I'm not sure how you would even know if Apple was "inspired" by Huawei, given the number of variations of camera bump configuration and placement on their various P, Mate, and Honor models.

    Huawei certainly hasn't yet converged all of its designs to any single camera placement, but Apple has, since the first iPhone.
    How is this even an argument?  They haven't converged their camera placement in their budget, mid-tier, and premium lines into one design... uh, okay I guess.  I don't even know what that means in the context of this conversation.  It's irrelevant anyway.  I was pretty specific.  I claimed they were inspired by "Huawei's design from last year's Mate Pro 20" not just Huawei in general.   
    Yeah, you "claimed", but why wouldn't I accurately also claim that Apple designed their configuration without regard to Huawei?". Do you actually think that Apple designs its products in mere weeks or months, which they would have had to if they had copied the Mate 20, which was only announced in late October of last year?

    Apple hasn't changed their placement, ever, and they certainly have the engineering and design to create their own optimized camera array that just coincidentally has an appearance like the Mate 20's "square" without actually being anywhere close to the same internal design. 

    A better question is why doesn't Huawei have a consistent design language? Likely it's because Huawei builds a shit ton of different models in a year, and Apple only currently builds three, and they all follow the same design language.
    Opinions.  Were discussing opinions.  You can't accurately claim anything, because it's an opinion.  Just like mine.  You can agree with it or disagree with it.  But whatever you do, please stop trying to move the goalpost with specious arguments.  No one is claiming Apple changed their camera placement.  My first post in this thread even mentions that Apple has always had their placement in the left corner.  But that isn't what the discussion is about and you know it.  No is arguing anything about a same internal design.  You're just making up stuff to obfuscate.  Huawei's consistency in design language isn't a better question, it's more obfuscation and deflection.  That camera module is definitely not consistent with Apple's camera design language.  I say it's inspired by the Mate 20 Pro's design.  You say it's not.   But you've introduced so many tertiary arguments that this is...  It's all good.  We disagree.  Let's leave it there.
    "I say it's inspired by Mate 20 Pro's design", and I posted why you were wrong based on the timeline alone. 

    We do agree to disagree.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 89
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,989member
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    It used to be that Apple made things that looked better from the back than their competitors looked from the front.  I really hope they've got something special in the works for 2020, because that bump is grotesque.
    Really. When you use your phone what side do you look at? What side matters the most? When was the last time you looked at the back of your phone? Does it really matter why it looks like. What matters is that IT JUST WORKS.
    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

    It's ok that aesthetics don't matter to you.  Other people think differently.  I like for things to look nice as well as work, especially when I'm paying as much as an iPhone costs.
    That new bump with the three lenses does look nice and aesthetically pleasing. We agree to disagree.
    Interesting that you make the point since you think it doesn't matter what it looks like, but fair enough.  I think you're in a tiny minority.
    So, do you want the improved imaging and video, not to mention A/R, or not?
    Not sure what relevance that has, but they're not features I'm particularly interested in.  Moreover, those features aren't contingent on a square camera bump in the corner.

    So, where should that camera bump go, and what should it look like?

    Given that Apple has always placed its camera(s) in that corner, I'm not sure why moving it makes any sense. 

    This is your opportunity to demonstrate your design skills; where should it go, and why?
    Tbh, if they made the phone thicker and got rid of the bump, that's 90% of my issue dealt with, the feel of it is more irritating than the look. Though in terms of placement, centralising it would remove the asymmetry to good effect, and a cleaner orientation, in a proper square, a line, or a cross formation rather than the rather chaotic looking offset of the three lenses and flash would probably work.

    But I make no claim to having any design skills in this area, I'm just a commentator and a customer.
    chemengin1muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 47 of 89
    Wow! Jony isn’t even out the door yet and the design team is already running around like headless chickens. I love Apple, have for a long time, but that looks HIDEOUS! If this was the first we’ve seen of this, there’d be hope that this person was just stirring the fanboy pot, but it’s not. This same design with that picture window size camera has been floating around for some time now. And they will probably go for $1200-$1800 depending on options. 
  • Reply 48 of 89
    fake, certified. The middle phone doesnt even have 4 corners bump aligned, fake 100% the bottom right corner is different than other 3 corners LMFAO stupid troll
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 89
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,274member
    tmay said:
    Two more months of pearl clutching by concern trolls and then we get actual reviews of the iPhone's triple camera system. 

    I'm prescient.

    Once the reviews are out, no one will give a fuck about the "look" of the camera bump.
    It’s the same pattern, every single year. These concern trolls are so predictable. 
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 89
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,274member
    asdasd said:
    tmay said:
    Two more months of pearl clutching by concern trolls and then we get actual reviews of the iPhone's triple camera system. 

    I'm prescient.

    Once the reviews are out, no one will give a fuck about the "look" of the camera bump.


    Any chance you, and others, would stop calling regular posters here "trolls". Its it looks bad, lets say it.
    What makes a concern troll a concern troll isn’t that they are “concerned” with the look...it’s that they wouldn’t have bought one anyway. That’s the trolling part. 
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 89
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,274member
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    Because right now a lot of us are saying it's ugly? That's why I would see a need to change it. You might disagree and like it just the way it is, huge, ugly, jumbled arrangement, and all. :)
    (Mostly kidding)
    This should go without saying, but ugly is subjective. Apple surely isn’t designing for approval of knockoff users like yourself who don’t own an iphone and won’t buy one anyway. Get real. 
    tmay
  • Reply 52 of 89
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,274member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    The question is 'why not?'.

    If the result is ugly, change it. That's a very good reason.

    Now, if, as Gatorguy has suggested, placing it in the centre was too much of an engineering re-design for a look that is about to suffer a major reworking (possibly on the 2020 upgrade), then keeping it in the upper left would make a little more sense even if the result is ugly.

    It also fits well with Apple's sloth like progess when it comes to adding stand out premium features.

    Tri-camera will be a full 18 months behind the competition. As will be a Night Mode feature and higher zoom factors and camera versatility. For charging, many, many years behind. And rumours point to quad cameras coming to the fore.
    You continue to show your ignorance about how Apple builds its products. 
     
    - “Why not” Errrnnt. Apple does not do change for change’s sake. If there is not a compelling reason to do it, they won’t. Pleasing knockoff non-customers like yourself who want it to look more like a chinese knockoff ain’t a reason. 

    - Apple isn’t slow to adding stand out, premium features — software keyboard, retina display, Siri, TouchID, FaceID for no forehead or chin (more screen in same space), and the best in the business line of A-series processors to deliver a superior UI experience with a better OS...that’s what they care about. They are slow to adopt bleeding edge specs, such as modem protocols. As usual, what you claim is important isn’t important to most people. Like triple cameras. No one’s losing any sleep over it. 
    edited July 17 tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 89
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,274member
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    It used to be that Apple made things that looked better from the back than their competitors looked from the front.  I really hope they've got something special in the works for 2020, because that bump is grotesque.
    Really. When you use your phone what side do you look at? What side matters the most? When was the last time you looked at the back of your phone? Does it really matter why it looks like. What matters is that IT JUST WORKS.
    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

    It's ok that aesthetics don't matter to you.  Other people think differently.  I like for things to look nice as well as work, especially when I'm paying as much as an iPhone costs.
    That new bump with the three lenses does look nice and aesthetically pleasing. We agree to disagree.
    Interesting that you make the point since you think it doesn't matter what it looks like, but fair enough.  I think you're in a tiny minority.
    So, do you want the improved imaging and video, not to mention A/R, or not?
    Not sure what relevance that has, but they're not features I'm particularly interested in.  Moreover, those features aren't contingent on a square camera bump in the corner.

    So, where should that camera bump go, and what should it look like?

    Given that Apple has always placed its camera(s) in that corner, I'm not sure why moving it makes any sense. 

    This is your opportunity to demonstrate your design skills; where should it go, and why?
    Tbh, if they made the phone thicker and got rid of the bump, that's 90% of my issue dealt with, the feel of it is more irritating than the look. Though in terms of placement, centralising it would remove the asymmetry to good effect, and a cleaner orientation, in a proper square, a line, or a cross formation rather than the rather chaotic looking offset of the three lenses and flash would probably work.
    Do you likewise complain that the ports on the back of an iMac aren’t centered or symmetrically balances to either side? Why not?


    edited July 17 kevin keewatto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 89
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,904member
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    Because right now a lot of us are saying it's ugly? That's why I would see a need to change it. You might disagree and like it just the way it is, huge, ugly, jumbled arrangement, and all. :)
    (Mostly kidding)
    This should go without saying, but ugly is subjective. Apple surely isn’t designing for approval of knockoff users like yourself who don’t own an iphone and won’t buy one anyway. Get real. 
    Gosh dude...
    Are you missing that my comment applies to the Pixel4 too? Take a moment to understand what someone writes before jumping in with some dismissive or ad-hom-ish comment. Dehumanizing others with the silly "iknockoff users", "trolls" or whatever other pigeonholing stuff you might come up with really shouldn't be an acceptable thing.
    chemengin1muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 55 of 89
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,989member
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    It used to be that Apple made things that looked better from the back than their competitors looked from the front.  I really hope they've got something special in the works for 2020, because that bump is grotesque.
    Really. When you use your phone what side do you look at? What side matters the most? When was the last time you looked at the back of your phone? Does it really matter why it looks like. What matters is that IT JUST WORKS.
    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

    It's ok that aesthetics don't matter to you.  Other people think differently.  I like for things to look nice as well as work, especially when I'm paying as much as an iPhone costs.
    That new bump with the three lenses does look nice and aesthetically pleasing. We agree to disagree.
    Interesting that you make the point since you think it doesn't matter what it looks like, but fair enough.  I think you're in a tiny minority.
    So, do you want the improved imaging and video, not to mention A/R, or not?
    Not sure what relevance that has, but they're not features I'm particularly interested in.  Moreover, those features aren't contingent on a square camera bump in the corner.

    So, where should that camera bump go, and what should it look like?

    Given that Apple has always placed its camera(s) in that corner, I'm not sure why moving it makes any sense. 

    This is your opportunity to demonstrate your design skills; where should it go, and why?
    Tbh, if they made the phone thicker and got rid of the bump, that's 90% of my issue dealt with, the feel of it is more irritating than the look. Though in terms of placement, centralising it would remove the asymmetry to good effect, and a cleaner orientation, in a proper square, a line, or a cross formation rather than the rather chaotic looking offset of the three lenses and flash would probably work.
    Do you likewise complain that the ports on the back of an iMac aren’t centered or symmetrically balances to either side? Why not?


    1. I wouldn't consider buying an iMac, I'm a MacBook guy, so I don't have much interest in it.
    2. Even if I did, those ports don't bother me, they're a very small part of the back on the iMac, and their location has a function that would be impeded by centralisation.
    3. Even if I did have interest and they did bother me, I don't see the back of my monitor screen very often, I see the back of my iPhone all the time.
    edited July 17 chemengin1
  • Reply 56 of 89
    uraharaurahara Posts: 263member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:

    The Pixel 4's design isn't stolen from Apple.  Both the Pixel 4 and the alleged iPhone 11 were "inspired" by Huawei's design from last year's Mate Pro 20.  MKBHD even shows one in comparison in the video above.  That camera module is ugly.  Will it keep people from buying the phone?  No, but it's still ugly.  No one, not even the members of the ADF have said otherwise.
    I'm not sure how you would even know if Apple was "inspired" by Huawei, given the number of variations of camera bump configuration and placement on their various P, Mate, and Honor models.

    Huawei certainly hasn't yet converged all of its designs to any single camera placement, but Apple has, since the first iPhone.
    How is this even an argument?  They haven't converged their camera placement in their budget, mid-tier, and premium lines into one design... uh, okay I guess.  I don't even know what that means in the context of this conversation.  It's irrelevant anyway.  I was pretty specific.  I claimed they were inspired by "Huawei's design from last year's Mate Pro 20" not just Huawei in general.   
    Yeah, you "claimed", but why wouldn't I accurately also claim that Apple designed their configuration without regard to Huawei?". Do you actually think that Apple designs its products in mere weeks or months, which they would have had to if they had copied the Mate 20, which was only announced in late October of last year?

    Apple hasn't changed their placement, ever, and they certainly have the engineering and design to create their own optimized camera array that just coincidentally has an appearance like the Mate 20's "square" without actually being anywhere close to the same internal design. 

    A better question is why doesn't Huawei have a consistent design language? Likely it's because Huawei builds a shit ton of different models in a year, and Apple only currently builds three, and they all follow the same design language.
    Opinions.  Were discussing opinions.  You can't accurately claim anything, because it's an opinion.  Just like mine.  You can agree with it or disagree with it.  But whatever you do, please stop trying to move the goalpost with specious arguments.  No one is claiming Apple changed their camera placement.  My first post in this thread even mentions that Apple has always had their placement in the left corner.  But that isn't what the discussion is about and you know it.  No is arguing anything about a same internal design.  You're just making up stuff to obfuscate.  Huawei's consistency in design language isn't a better question, it's more obfuscation and deflection.  That camera module is definitely not consistent with Apple's camera design language.  I say it's inspired by the Mate 20 Pro's design.  You say it's not.   But you've introduced so many tertiary arguments that this is...  It's all good.  We disagree.  Let's leave it there.
    "I say it's inspired by Mate 20 Pro's design", and I posted why you were wrong based on the timeline alone. 

    We do agree to disagree.
    I like you. (becaues we think alike :))



    @1STnTENDERBITS
    I think, that Huawei got the inspiration from me ;)

    how do you know that it was inspired by other manufacturer? 
    Cameras look similar, have a square form factor. Can they look similar without being inspired by each other?
    How many options are out there? What would you do if I asked you to place on the back of the phone 3 cameras, a flash and a mic (and a sensor for AR?)?

    If you asked me, I would think a bit. To place in one line to make the current arrangement longer? Then the fingers wolud mare ofter accidentelly cross the camara's view point.
    The same goes to make them in one line turned by 90 degrees to current arrengement. The same goes to place it in the center.
    In my opinion, the location in corner, and their arrengement in square is the best solution (because you minimize the number of accidental 'finger covers').
    And I have been thinking so before the 3d camera was a thing. I think, that Huawei got the inspiration from me. 

    P.S. Have you vere heard about such phonemen is scince that sometimes different scinetists located thousands miles from each other discover the same think 'simultaniously'?
    But hey, what do we know about the power of the God of Inspiration. 

    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 89
    StrangeDays said:
    Do you likewise complain that the ports on the back of an iMac aren’t centered or symmetrically balances to either side? Why not?
    Why not? That's pretty simple.  The argument isn't universally applicable.  The phone and the computer are separate things judged separately.    It would be like using the arguments about AWD vs 4WD in an SUV in a conversation about a motorcycle.  
    edited July 17 chemengin1
  • Reply 58 of 89
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,904member
    urahara said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:

    The Pixel 4's design isn't stolen from Apple.  Both the Pixel 4 and the alleged iPhone 11 were "inspired" by Huawei's design from last year's Mate Pro 20.  MKBHD even shows one in comparison in the video above.  That camera module is ugly.  Will it keep people from buying the phone?  No, but it's still ugly.  No one, not even the members of the ADF have said otherwise.
    I'm not sure how you would even know if Apple was "inspired" by Huawei, given the number of variations of camera bump configuration and placement on their various P, Mate, and Honor models.

    Huawei certainly hasn't yet converged all of its designs to any single camera placement, but Apple has, since the first iPhone.
    How is this even an argument?  They haven't converged their camera placement in their budget, mid-tier, and premium lines into one design... uh, okay I guess.  I don't even know what that means in the context of this conversation.  It's irrelevant anyway.  I was pretty specific.  I claimed they were inspired by "Huawei's design from last year's Mate Pro 20" not just Huawei in general.   
    Yeah, you "claimed", but why wouldn't I accurately also claim that Apple designed their configuration without regard to Huawei?". Do you actually think that Apple designs its products in mere weeks or months, which they would have had to if they had copied the Mate 20, which was only announced in late October of last year?

    Apple hasn't changed their placement, ever, and they certainly have the engineering and design to create their own optimized camera array that just coincidentally has an appearance like the Mate 20's "square" without actually being anywhere close to the same internal design. 

    A better question is why doesn't Huawei have a consistent design language? Likely it's because Huawei builds a shit ton of different models in a year, and Apple only currently builds three, and they all follow the same design language.
    Opinions.  Were discussing opinions.  You can't accurately claim anything, because it's an opinion.  Just like mine.  You can agree with it or disagree with it.  But whatever you do, please stop trying to move the goalpost with specious arguments.  No one is claiming Apple changed their camera placement.  My first post in this thread even mentions that Apple has always had their placement in the left corner.  But that isn't what the discussion is about and you know it.  No is arguing anything about a same internal design.  You're just making up stuff to obfuscate.  Huawei's consistency in design language isn't a better question, it's more obfuscation and deflection.  That camera module is definitely not consistent with Apple's camera design language.  I say it's inspired by the Mate 20 Pro's design.  You say it's not.   But you've introduced so many tertiary arguments that this is...  It's all good.  We disagree.  Let's leave it there.
    "I say it's inspired by Mate 20 Pro's design", and I posted why you were wrong based on the timeline alone. 

    We do agree to disagree.
    I like you. (becaues we think alike :))



    @1STnTENDERBITS
    I think, that Huawei got the inspiration from me ;)

    how do you know that it was inspired by other manufacturer? 
    Cameras look similar, have a square form factor. Can they look similar without being inspired by each other?
    How many options are out there? What would you do if I asked you to place on the back of the phone 3 cameras, a flash and a mic (and a sensor for AR?)?

    If you asked me, I would think a bit. To place in one line to make the current arrangement longer? Then the fingers wolud mare ofter accidentelly cross the camara's view point.
    The same goes to make them in one line turned by 90 degrees to current arrengement. The same goes to place it in the center.
    In my opinion, the location in corner, and their arrengement in square is the best solution (because you minimize the number of accidental 'finger covers').
    And I have been thinking so before the 3d camera was a thing. I think, that Huawei got the inspiration from me. 

    P.S. Have you vere heard about such phonemen is scince that sometimes different scinetists located thousands miles from each other discover the same think 'simultaniously'?
    But hey, what do we know about the power of the God of Inspiration. 

    That's a valid opinion too. Guess what? No one is probably going to try to insult you for having one either.

    Only a couple of posters in this thread tend to regularly reply to others in a personally insulting way. Discussing while respecting other opinions is always OK. 

    With that said different manufacturers would not need to wait for a public reveal before finding "inspiration". Suppliers talk. So do component manufacturers and device builders. Engineers who work on smartphone design, screen technology, camera components etc tend to move around instead of making a career with one company. They talk too. Discovering what the players have in the pipeline doesn't require waiting until a product ships in a sealed box to a retail buyer. Secrets are tough to keep, probably impossible in a truly competitive and highly profitable line of business.

    Every successful company ends up being inspired by someone else as well they should. How do you think the Apple's and Google's in the world are driven to buy up other startups and established companies? By paying attention to what everyone else is doing. 
    edited July 17 chemengin1muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 59 of 89
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,151member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    The question is 'why not?'.

    If the result is ugly, change it. That's a very good reason.

    Now, if, as Gatorguy has suggested, placing it in the centre was too much of an engineering re-design for a look that is about to suffer a major reworking (possibly on the 2020 upgrade), then keeping it in the upper left would make a little more sense even if the result is ugly.

    It also fits well with Apple's sloth like progess when it comes to adding stand out premium features.

    Tri-camera will be a full 18 months behind the competition. As will be a Night Mode feature and higher zoom factors and camera versatility. For charging, many, many years behind. And rumours point to quad cameras coming to the fore.

    As for the square bump taking inspiration from Huawei, why not? We will never know. There are only so many designs anyway so it would have appeared eventually, just like a circular bump will surely appear too. This is like AirPods. There is nothing original in the design. Snipping off the wires from standard earbuds didn't break new ground and using the long stems has been a well trodden path for the majority of hands free earpieces for many years.

    Square, lineal or circular bumps, aren't news. Looks are and these look awful.

    Having said all that, if things had appeared on an iPhone first and competitors followed, many here would be howling at the 'blatant rip offs' and if the top left sqaure placement had been used by anyone before Apple there would have been howls over how ugly it was, too.

    As things stand, the Pixel 4 actually doesn't look so 'off' because there is no logo near it to draw you to it. 

    The logo is understated and well out of the way.

    It's all moot though until the phones go official. Just pray there are no furry dice hanging off them!
    I don’t think the camera hump in the center looks any better or worse. This notion that Huawei’s implementation is universally accepted as better looking is BS. Of course I’m not surprised you would think so as you’re a Huawei shill.
    tmayStrangeDaysthtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 89
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,061member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    The question is 'why not?'.

    If the result is ugly, change it. That's a very good reason.

    Now, if, as Gatorguy has suggested, placing it in the centre was too much of an engineering re-design for a look that is about to suffer a major reworking (possibly on the 2020 upgrade), then keeping it in the upper left would make a little more sense even if the result is ugly.

    It also fits well with Apple's sloth like progess when it comes to adding stand out premium features.

    Tri-camera will be a full 18 months behind the competition. As will be a Night Mode feature and higher zoom factors and camera versatility. For charging, many, many years behind. And rumours point to quad cameras coming to the fore.
    You continue to show your ignorance about how Apple builds its products. 
     
    - “Why not” Errrnnt. Apple does not do change for change’s sake. If there is not a compelling reason to do it, they won’t. Pleasing knockoff non-customers like yourself who want it to look more like a chinese knockoff ain’t a reason. 

    - Apple isn’t slow to adding stand out, premium features — software keyboard, retina display, Siri, TouchID, FaceID for no forehead or chin (more screen in same space), and the best in the business line of A-series processors to deliver a superior UI experience with a better OS...that’s what they care about. They are slow to adopt bleeding edge specs, such as modem protocols. As usual, what you claim is important isn’t important to most people. Like triple cameras. No one’s losing any sleep over it. 
    Forget 'change for the sake of change'. That is a cop out. Why change colours and finish etc? Aesthetics? Ah, that's what we are talking about. Is not being ugly 'compelling' enough? Let's forget for a moment that Apple has made no end of interface changes that appear to have exactly that 'change for the sake of change' philosophy running through them.

    Where is the worst place to put an SD slot on an iMac? The rear is definitely not the best! But hey, they moved it from a less bad position (the side) to the back. Any compelling user facing (pun intended) reason for that or was it that Ive couldn't sleep at night because he needed to have the ports in one little group and out of sight so as not to break those pure lines? 

    Aesthetics?

    Apple is moving like a sloth. How else can you justify shipping a 5W charger for 10 years. What consumers crave for is camera versatility. It sells phones. Face ID is simply just another biometric and literally nothing more. The hardware didn't even change from one year to the next. Tri-cameras, x5 zoom, is not just another camera. SuperCharge is not just another charger. Even Huawei's 3D depth sensing does more than Apple's. Look at how long it took them to add dual SIM!

    Clearly a faster processor doesn't shift phones because Apple stagnated for three years before issuing a profit warning. Why? Because the entire flagship industry has 'instant' response times for pretty much everything they do and often outspeeds Apple in things we do daily like opening apps. Speed hasn't been an issue for years on flagships (although I believe your less than two year old iPhone X can't handle Apple's best AR goodies in the upcoming OS upgrade). 
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