Sales of iPhones down year-on-year despite popularity of iPhone XR in US

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 107
    designrdesignr Posts: 617member
    dedgecko said:
    designr said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.

    That ties in with some analysts reporting at the time that iPhone X sales had dropped off faster than any other new release before it.

    It was retired in the 2018 refresh and the first quarter of that cycle Apple issued a profit warning.

    While we will probably never know all of what happened, it is very reasonable to speculate that the iPhone pool of purchasers simply ran out of 'financial steam' and sales dropped as a result. 

    Tim Cook said it sold well.

    Your theories are irrelevant.
    Sadly "well" is not an objective measure we can use to compare to say, "good" or "okay" or "great".

    Apple has moved on from hardware sales.
    Ummm...no.

    dedgecko said:
    designr said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.

    That ties in with some analysts reporting at the time that iPhone X sales had dropped off faster than any other new release before it.

    It was retired in the 2018 refresh and the first quarter of that cycle Apple issued a profit warning.

    While we will probably never know all of what happened, it is very reasonable to speculate that the iPhone pool of purchasers simply ran out of 'financial steam' and sales dropped as a result. 

    Tim Cook said it sold well.

    Your theories are irrelevant.
    Sadly "well" is not an objective measure we can use to compare to say, "good" or "okay" or "great".

    It’s about user base.  It has been since day one. 
    If that is true they should be more careful about gaining or losing market share. Platforms are about a broad and sustainable user base. Apple has a great start on that but risks blowing it at the alter of "premium" branding (i.e., high prices).
    seanjelijahg
  • Reply 62 of 107
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    designr said:
    designr said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.

    That ties in with some analysts reporting at the time that iPhone X sales had dropped off faster than any other new release before it.

    It was retired in the 2018 refresh and the first quarter of that cycle Apple issued a profit warning.

    While we will probably never know all of what happened, it is very reasonable to speculate that the iPhone pool of purchasers simply ran out of 'financial steam' and sales dropped as a result. 

    Tim Cook said it sold well.

    Your theories are irrelevant.
    Sadly "well" is not an objective measure we can use to compare to say, "good" or "okay" or "great".


    Someone didn't hear the quarterly financial statement...

    "Well" is MY term that I used. It sold "very good" if that makes any difference.

    Apple had raised their expectations beyond the sky hoping it would outsell iPhone 6 but it was short of that expectation but still sold "very good". Tim Cook compared it to your favorite team winning the SuperBowl but not by a lot of points. I believe it was the 2nd highest selling iPhone ever.

     :D 

    "well" "very good" "not by a lot of points"

    Nice.

    OK we get it. Tim Cook was lying as usual....
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 63 of 107
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,565member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.
    I think they reported it longer than that. And yes it does matter because it means price wasn’t the main factor to Apple consumers. Maybe to you knockoffs, but not to people wanting the best. 

    Nice fantasy narrative about “But maybe it was just barely the best seller!” Funny, since you were just making a fuss on another thread about people making conclusions without evidence. And here you are. Not surprised. 
    You can't say 'it means price wasn't the main factor'. We don't know.
    We absolutely can. The data supports that conclusion and that conclusion alone (the more-expensive X sold more than cheaper iphones, therefore price wasn’t the defining characteristic). Everything else is made up phooey on your part. Your ice cream come is melting, son. Sorry about reality and all. 
    edited July 2019
  • Reply 64 of 107
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,565member

    henrybay said:
    iPhone 8 is still the second best seller. A lot of people obviously love their home button. Apple, please take note of this clear market signal and keep a home button on at least one of the upcoming new iPhones. Call me old fashioned but I love my home button. 
    O rly? The X sold more than the 8. Second best out of two is a pointless distinction. Your point is utterly fruitless. 
  • Reply 65 of 107
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,565member

    cgWerks said:
    henrybay said:
    iPhone 8 is still the second best seller. A lot of people obviously love their home button. Apple, please take note of this clear market signal and keep a home button on at least one of the upcoming new iPhones. Call me old fashioned but I love my home button. 
    Same here. As long as I have the choice, I'd MUCH rather have the home button and Touch ID than notch and Face ID.
    Says a guy who’s never had a phone with a notch. Complaining about it is about as stupid as complaining that a real-view mirror takes away from your windshield. 
  • Reply 66 of 107
    tommikele said:

    Check your Funk and Wagnalls.
    That’s a blast from the past. I haven’t seen a F&W encyclopedia in decades.
    dedgecko
  • Reply 67 of 107
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,565member
    designr said:
    dedgecko said:
    designr said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.

    That ties in with some analysts reporting at the time that iPhone X sales had dropped off faster than any other new release before it.

    It was retired in the 2018 refresh and the first quarter of that cycle Apple issued a profit warning.

    While we will probably never know all of what happened, it is very reasonable to speculate that the iPhone pool of purchasers simply ran out of 'financial steam' and sales dropped as a result. 

    Tim Cook said it sold well.

    Your theories are irrelevant.
    Sadly "well" is not an objective measure we can use to compare to say, "good" or "okay" or "great".

    Apple has moved on from hardware sales.
    Ummm...no.

    dedgecko said:
    designr said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.

    That ties in with some analysts reporting at the time that iPhone X sales had dropped off faster than any other new release before it.

    It was retired in the 2018 refresh and the first quarter of that cycle Apple issued a profit warning.

    While we will probably never know all of what happened, it is very reasonable to speculate that the iPhone pool of purchasers simply ran out of 'financial steam' and sales dropped as a result. 

    Tim Cook said it sold well.

    Your theories are irrelevant.
    Sadly "well" is not an objective measure we can use to compare to say, "good" or "okay" or "great".

    It’s about user base.  It has been since day one. 
    If that is true they should be more careful about gaining or losing market share. Platforms are about a broad and sustainable user base. Apple has a great start on that but risks blowing it at the alter of "premium" branding (i.e., high prices).
    Prove it. Sounds like amateur rubbish to me. Apple has been about profitability even if that means higher prices likely longer than you’ve been alive. They’ve don't chase marker share at the price of profitability. 
    edited July 2019
  • Reply 68 of 107
    Apple raised prices in order to make more profit in a flattening out market. A consequential impact of this is people voting with their pockets. It's either price or marketshare, you can't have it both ways when there's a viable competitor. The bigger question is, has Apple made more money or less since raising prices, or has the loss of sales worked against it?
    cgWerks
  • Reply 69 of 107
    seanjseanj Posts: 255member
    When will idiot analysts realize Apple isn’t chasing volume.Or  else apple could easily cut prices like Samsung & Huawei. Profitability & revenue matters more.
    Yuuup. Apple doesn't worship at the Church of Market Share. they are all about profitability, and they've dominated that metric. What does Apple care if all the other knockoffs together sell more than one company selling just a few variations does?
    Except, when you're trying to get people to buy into subscription services, like all computer/media companies are trying to, then it does come down to market share. If those services are tied to your devices, and the devices are losing market share, then you have an problem with your subscription services having a smaller market available to them.
    elijahg
  • Reply 70 of 107
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    tmay said:
    lkrupp said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    Blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada. The Macintosh has never had more than a 10% share of the worldwide market and it has been a success for Apple all these years. Discerning customers see the value and TCO of Apple products and are very willing to pay the mythical Apple Tax. When has Apple EVER had a dominating share of ANY market? They have literally created or boosted markets out of thin air (personal computers, portable music players, smartphones, tablets, smartwatches, etc) only to see them dominated by cheap knock-offs and lookalikes. Through it all Apple has remained true to its mission statement to provide well designed, reliable, usable products that customers like to use. Again, tech blog forums like AI are filled with comments from a market segment that doesn’t value design, only cares about specs, and wants everything cheap.
    While writing up responses to Avon b7, with great job security at that, I decided to find out how many Huawei models use the Kirin 980 SOC.

    Interestingly enough, I found a link that had images for 53 different models of using the Kirin 980, and that is certainly less actually numbers of devices than those using Apple's current A12 SOC. That's a lot of engineering resources devoted to a line of products that starts at much lower price points than Apple's current product line, and basically doesn't challenge Apple all that well on the flagship end of the market, and this is all provable by the ASP's generated by both product lines. I don't have to note, but I will, that Huawei mostly competes in the Android OS device market, and not directly with Apple's iPhone.

    Compare and contrast to Apple that has only current three models, all with high ASP's, and all with long lifecycle's, and of course, all of the benefits of the expanding Apple ecosystem, and all of which carry at least a one year advantage in SOC performance over any Android OS devices. Whether Apple needs to make a lower price model, perhaps along the line of the SE, is certainly debatable, but there isn't any current crisis from not doing that.

    ASP is of zero relevance to consumers.

    53 models means choice for consumers. Choice at virtually every feature point (including price).

    Huawei absolutely 'competes directly' with Apple iPhone and is something that has been commented on for years now. Yes, it mostly competes with the Android OS market but that represents around 80% of the handset market to start with so it is not surprising.

    How are you measuring that one year SoC advantage?

    Apple doesn't even have a modem on theirs, which is slower and poorer performing anyway. Its WiFi is slower, it doesn't have dual frequency GPS. I suppose you are referring to speed alone which is pretty much irrelevant for flagship users. Their phones have been 'instant fast' for virtually every need for years and, perhaps it will be somewhat ironic for you, but those Kirin 980 phones actually open most apps faster than the same apps on iPhone (although, as I said, when something is fast to the point of being 'instant', it's all really moot, but as you seem to be convinced that speed is still so important). And with Turbo GPU 3.0, from what I have seen (I am not a gamer) even mid range Kirin 980 phones perform as well as the highest end iPhone on over 25 supported games
    (and increasing). And Turbo GPU also accelerates the UI and adds physical effects to games as well as optimising audio.

    What users really want, though, is camera versatility, fastest wifi speeds, fastest modem speeds, great connection  strength, truly fast charging etc.

    Precisely the areas Apple is lacking. And we aren't even talking 5G of folding options either.
    edited July 2019 elijahggatorguy
  • Reply 71 of 107
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,311member
    auxio said:

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.
    People only look at the cost of materials and don't really see the cost of engineering (software, hardware, and manufacturing) which goes into complete redesigns like the X.  So it's not just "seeing how much of a price increase the market will bear", it's recouping the huge investment made in designing a brand new phone.  All of the people who whine about lack of brand new phone designs need to understand that new designs cost money.  Over time (up front investments are recouped, manufacturing processes are scaled and optimized), those brand new designs make their way down into the cheaper models and that's where the price cuts come.  We're already seeing that with the XR.
    Then why was the Xs just as expensive? Surely the X's increased cost should have paid that off. Part of the increased costs IMO are due to Apple's employee bloat, they have 10x as many employees as they did when the original iPhone was released, which had an order of magnitude more research than the X did. And the price of that was dropped after a month or so. The only way for them to maintain the profit margins is by increasing costs. But that's become unacceptable in the face of stiff competition who offer 75% of the features for 25% of the price.

    It is entirely down to price. Cook doesn't seem to be able to understand that in a market where ASPs is falling, maintaining rising ASPs is only going to cause a long term decline in sales. It was quite eye-opening - but unfortunately unsurprising - just how apathetic he is about their own products with the WSJ report about his relationship with Ive. I fear Cook is leading Apple down same the path as Jean-Louis Gassée. Mac sales were initially record breaking, but gradually tailed off as prices rose, until Apple nearly went bust in the mid-90's. But this time, there's no Jobs to save it.
    edited July 2019
  • Reply 72 of 107
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,311member
    Let me see if I understand. Apple stop reporting o iPhones sales because they did not want to be under the tyranny of a speculative market versed more on unit sales, not in profits; and therefore, manipulating the value of the market of Apple. Yet, I also I understand, (please, correct me) that the revenue of Apple’s services corresponds to a combined revenue of Microsoft and Google all together, and while the focus is on Apple and the capacity of service growth with is variables of uncertainty, all the same variables are not applied to the competition; because those companies are projecting for the future. Well, at mi 70’s, and already a bit cynic, let me tell you all, that Apple has been for the last 25 years not only projecting for a future more realistically but also collecting profitable revenues as a result of those projections. When is WS going to realize that they are “holding the market wrong”?
    Err no they haven't. They were teetering on the edge of bankruptcy 25 years ago.
  • Reply 73 of 107
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,311member
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.
    I think they reported it longer than that. And yes it does matter because it means price wasn’t the main factor to Apple consumers. Maybe to you knockoffs, but not to people wanting the best. 

    Nice fantasy narrative about “But maybe it was just barely the best seller!” Funny, since you were just making a fuss on another thread about people making conclusions without evidence. And here you are. Not surprised. 
    Price has been the main factor preventing upgrades for pretty much everyone I know who currently has an older iPhone (me included). Over the past 5 or 6 years I have had quite a number of friends switch to Android because "iPhones are too expensive." Just because you don't think the price is a problem because you can afford it, doesn't mean everyone else can too. Indians for example can't afford iPhones which is why Apple's sales over there are pretty much zero. They're just too expensive.

    As happened with the mid 90's Mac, eventually, it will become less profitable for developers to write apps for iOS as the marketshare is so small. And at that point, much like the 90's Mac, the iOS ecosystem would collapse. And this is all down to Cook's crazy pricing. I really want a new iPhone - but I refuse to pay £1000 for the flagship when the flagship a few years ago was £650.
    avon b7muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 74 of 107
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    elijahg said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.
    I think they reported it longer than that. And yes it does matter because it means price wasn’t the main factor to Apple consumers. Maybe to you knockoffs, but not to people wanting the best. 

    Nice fantasy narrative about “But maybe it was just barely the best seller!” Funny, since you were just making a fuss on another thread about people making conclusions without evidence. And here you are. Not surprised. 
    Price has been the main factor preventing upgrades for pretty much everyone I know who currently has an older iPhone (me included). Over the past 5 or 6 years I have had quite a number of friends switch to Android because "iPhones are too expensive." Just because you don't think the price is a problem because you can afford it, doesn't mean everyone else can too. Indians for example can't afford iPhones which is why Apple's sales over there are pretty much zero. They're just too expensive.

    As happened with the mid 90's Mac, eventually, it will become less profitable for developers to write apps for iOS as the marketshare is so small. And at that point, much like the 90's Mac, the iOS ecosystem would collapse. And this is all down to Cook's crazy pricing. I really want a new iPhone - but I refuse to pay £1000 for the flagship when the flagship a few years ago was £650.
    I think you are spot on with regards to pricing.

    $1,000 is a huge amount of money for the vast majority of users. To that, people counter with 'the Xr doesn't cost $1,000', which is wilful denial in my book.

    If the Xr were so 'affordable' the offer sitting on Apple's front page right now wouldn't be there. This is the first thing you see on visiting Apple.com:

    "iPhone XR from $19.99/mo. or $479"

    Price is very much an issue and that (now seemingly permanent offer) is just Apple's way of acknowledging it (the offer only appeared when sales tanked) and partially reacting (although I imagine many will be reluctant to trade-in their existing phones, preferring instead to pass them on to family and friends).

    There is also the question of value and how it is perceived and many people perceive all iPhones as lacking value for the asking price and I think sales up to now have reflected that. People argue that Apple's most expensive phone was its 'most popular' which, IMO, doesn't stand up to scrutiny either and Q1-19 sales were testament to that.

     In summary, I think price is a major issue whichever way you choose to look at it. Something that is exacerbated by value (features) and the fact that the cheaper options look very dated by today's standards (huge chins and foreheads).



    edited July 2019 elijahgmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 75 of 107
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Here is my summary of the situation. I own an iPhone 7. My wife has an iPhone 8+. Every one of my friends who has purchased an Android phone in the last year has bought a One Plus 6T which is probably nearly the exact specs and features most of us would want at the price an iPhone should be after this number of years aka the tech should have moved down not up in price.

    And quite frankly when I see it, it is an astonishing looking phone that would move me off my iPhone 7.
    elijahg
  • Reply 76 of 107
    When will idiot analysts realize Apple isn’t chasing volume.Or  else apple could easily cut prices like Samsung & Huawei. Profitability & revenue matters more.
    Apple doesnt make a god damn thing. Those processor? Samsung or taiwanese semiconductor company. That screen? Samsung or LG. That flash storage? Samsung or Toshiba. Guess what you can be an Apple fanboi but you're walking around with an Apple phone when the cpu screen and memoery are all made by Samsumg!

  • Reply 77 of 107
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,081member
    trumptman said:
    Here is my summary of the situation. I own an iPhone 7. My wife has an iPhone 8+. Every one of my friends who has purchased an Android phone in the last year has bought a One Plus 6T which is probably nearly the exact specs and features most of us would want at the price an iPhone should be after this number of years aka the tech should have moved down not up in price.

    And quite frankly when I see it, it is an astonishing looking phone that would move me off my iPhone 7.
    Follow your wife. She’s more intelligent than all of you combined  >:) iPhone 8+ is a great phone.
  • Reply 78 of 107
    dedgeckodedgecko Posts: 169member
    trumptman said:
    Here is my summary of the situation. I own an iPhone 7. My wife has an iPhone 8+. Every one of my friends who has purchased an Android phone in the last year has bought a One Plus 6T which is probably nearly the exact specs and features most of us would want at the price an iPhone should be after this number of years aka the tech should have moved down not up in price.

    And quite frankly when I see it, it is an astonishing looking phone that would move me off my iPhone 7.
    Follow your wife. She’s more intelligent than all of you combined  >:) iPhone 8+ is a great phone.
    Until you use an X. I switched my wife to the 8+ I had just bought for myself and sold her Jet Black 7. 
  • Reply 79 of 107
    dedgeckodedgecko Posts: 169member
    designr said:
    dedgecko said:
    designr said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.

    That ties in with some analysts reporting at the time that iPhone X sales had dropped off faster than any other new release before it.

    It was retired in the 2018 refresh and the first quarter of that cycle Apple issued a profit warning.

    While we will probably never know all of what happened, it is very reasonable to speculate that the iPhone pool of purchasers simply ran out of 'financial steam' and sales dropped as a result. 

    Tim Cook said it sold well.

    Your theories are irrelevant.
    Sadly "well" is not an objective measure we can use to compare to say, "good" or "okay" or "great".

    Apple has moved on from hardware sales.
    Ummm...no.

    dedgecko said:
    designr said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.

    That ties in with some analysts reporting at the time that iPhone X sales had dropped off faster than any other new release before it.

    It was retired in the 2018 refresh and the first quarter of that cycle Apple issued a profit warning.

    While we will probably never know all of what happened, it is very reasonable to speculate that the iPhone pool of purchasers simply ran out of 'financial steam' and sales dropped as a result. 

    Tim Cook said it sold well.

    Your theories are irrelevant.
    Sadly "well" is not an objective measure we can use to compare to say, "good" or "okay" or "great".

    It’s about user base.  It has been since day one. 
    If that is true they should be more careful about gaining or losing market share. Platforms are about a broad and sustainable user base. Apple has a great start on that but risks blowing it at the alter of "premium" branding (i.e., high prices).
    They have a growing number of AppleID’s that are buying hardware and services. They own the premium market and it shows. They don’t need to race to the bottom. 
  • Reply 80 of 107
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    dedgecko said:
    designr said:
    dedgecko said:
    designr said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.

    That ties in with some analysts reporting at the time that iPhone X sales had dropped off faster than any other new release before it.

    It was retired in the 2018 refresh and the first quarter of that cycle Apple issued a profit warning.

    While we will probably never know all of what happened, it is very reasonable to speculate that the iPhone pool of purchasers simply ran out of 'financial steam' and sales dropped as a result. 

    Tim Cook said it sold well.

    Your theories are irrelevant.
    Sadly "well" is not an objective measure we can use to compare to say, "good" or "okay" or "great".

    Apple has moved on from hardware sales.
    Ummm...no.

    dedgecko said:
    designr said:
    avon b7 said:
    mubaili said:
    Apple must not talk itself into believing that it cannot gain more market share. It must act aggressively, speed up the cycle, and push more variety of devices, i.e., do what they have done to the iPad line up to the iPhone line up. 
    The problem is price, plain and simple. In 2016 the flagship iPhone started at $649. One year later the flagship model was $999. Even the Xr which is supposed to be the more affordable model starts at $749, $100 more than the flagship from 2 years prior. It doesn’t matter if the tech inside the phone or the materials it’s made with are more advanced/expensive to manufacture. At the end of the day the average selling price of the iPhone has steadily been going up. And consumers are starting to say no thanks, I’ll keep what I’ve got it’s good enough.

    With the X I think Apple was testing how much of a price increase the market would bear (and the higher ASP would allow them to show revenue growth even when sales were flat to down). I think they got their answer. I’d be surprised if there are any price cuts this year and I’ll bet the XS gets removed from the lineup. But I don’t think we’ll see any price increases or storage configurations that push up the price. And I’ll bet we see Apple aggressively pushing trade-ins again.

    The problem with this statement is that the iPhone X sold really well.
    This affirmation is actually questionable for various reasons.

    Apple never revealed any numbers beyond saying it was the most popular iPhone. It's all relative if the less popular iPhones weren't far behind iPhone X but didn't of course reach 'most popular' status. So, I think Apple made that claim for two or maybe three quarters and for the last quarter they said nothing.

    That ties in with some analysts reporting at the time that iPhone X sales had dropped off faster than any other new release before it.

    It was retired in the 2018 refresh and the first quarter of that cycle Apple issued a profit warning.

    While we will probably never know all of what happened, it is very reasonable to speculate that the iPhone pool of purchasers simply ran out of 'financial steam' and sales dropped as a result. 

    Tim Cook said it sold well.

    Your theories are irrelevant.
    Sadly "well" is not an objective measure we can use to compare to say, "good" or "okay" or "great".

    It’s about user base.  It has been since day one. 
    If that is true they should be more careful about gaining or losing market share. Platforms are about a broad and sustainable user base. Apple has a great start on that but risks blowing it at the alter of "premium" branding (i.e., high prices).
    They have a growing number of AppleID’s that are buying hardware and services. They own the premium market and it shows. They don’t need to race to the bottom. 
    Owning the premium market is probably factually correct but if you own less and less of it, there comes a moment when you have to decide if that loss (largely to competitors) is something you want to tackle or simply plough on as if it was business as usual.

    When tackling the problem you have to ask yourself why you went through three years of flat sales and what competitors are doing differently in the premium space to take successfully take a big bite out of the segment.

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/premium-smartphone-market-collapses-8-q1-2019-apple-shipments-drop-20/
    designrelijahgmuthuk_vanalingam
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