Neither. Both still have the butterfly keyboard ☹️
Apple threw in the 4 year extended warranty on the keyboard.
The price to get it fixed (out of pocket) was a legitimate concern, but not so much now...
So, is it “no MacBooks” regardless of pricing? That’s a lot of hate for the keyboard “feel”.
With the direction Apple has gone emphasizing size, even if Apple switches back to a scissor design, it’s not going to feel like a Lenovo...
You’ve pretty much declared yourself “Windows Forevermore”.
I thought I read that it was a lifetime warranty? If it's only 4 years, that's a BIG thumbs down! If the keyboard breaks on a 4 year old MacBook, at $700+ to repair it you would be better off just scrapping the machine.
I think Apple are making too many laptops, with the air. They dropped the 12 inch. But the air that is left, I find it pointless. It is not light enough to really be an air. Plus it is only a 7 watt TDP processor, and only two cores. For those reasons alone I would go with the pro. I feel that Apple should be concentrating on economies of scale with the pro, and just selling that. Splitting your customers off on to the air seems wasteful at this point.
The AIr is STILL a great machine! What happened was: The Pro kept getting cut down and limited down until it became an Air with better processors.
Apple needs to rethink that strategy. It's like Henry Ford selling cars in any color you want -- as long as its black.
It is a dilemma. I would want to buy MBPs for my daughters, but I am sure the younger one would probably want the gold MBA. Maybe the money and weight saved would go to a USB hub so when inevitably one of her friends want to give her something on a USB stick she can actually use it.
on the touchbar issue: I think adoption would be easier if Apple actually went all in. Where is the magic keyboard with a Touch Bar? Will the Mac Pro, iMac pro and the iMac end up with the touchbar? because i suspect one reason there is still grief about it (apart from raising the cost of the notebook) is it isn’t universal enough for a critical mass of developers to bother taking advantage of it.
Not USB hub, just a USB-A adapter, not bigger than a lipstick or an eye mascara. The hub may be purchased afterwards and be left at home for occasional use.
I think Apple are making too many laptops, with the air. They dropped the 12 inch. But the air that is left, I find it pointless. It is not light enough to really be an air. Plus it is only a 7 watt TDP processor, and only two cores. For those reasons alone I would go with the pro. I feel that Apple should be concentrating on economies of scale with the pro, and just selling that. Splitting your customers off on to the air seems wasteful at this point.
MacBook Air is an excellent corporate laptop to be sold by ten thousands. That is economies of scale...
That's true -- at least for some. But being a non-repairable, non-upgradeable machine it becomes a disposable consumable from the perspective of most IT departments. Frankly I have never worked with one or for one that would go there.
I think Apple are making too many laptops, with the air. They dropped the 12 inch. But the air that is left, I find it pointless. It is not light enough to really be an air. Plus it is only a 7 watt TDP processor, and only two cores. For those reasons alone I would go with the pro. I feel that Apple should be concentrating on economies of scale with the pro, and just selling that. Splitting your customers off on to the air seems wasteful at this point.
MacBook Air is an excellent corporate laptop to be sold by ten thousands. That is economies of scale...
That's true -- at least for some. But being a non-repairable, non-upgradeable machine it becomes a disposable consumable from the perspective of most IT departments. Frankly I have never worked with one or for one that would go there.
Enterprises don’t repair or upgrade. They trash and get new. Within a deal of ten thousands, repairs and upgrades are already covered by the deal. Corporate accounts work differently than individual accounts.
I would pick the Air for one reason....no stinking Touch Bar
What a surprise. Have either of you ever even used it? It’s a helluva lot more useful than a Launchpad button and other junk that was up there.
Strange how people who embrace new technology refuse to adopt it when it appears, preferring the ways of luddites and trolls who want nothing more than something about which to complain bitterly.
More than anything one image in the video struck me and stuck with me: The Opening Shot of the Two Machines Side by Side: I couldn't tell them apart - there was literally no way to know which was which!
Apple needs to break out of its thin, light, minimalist design prison.
One way would be to produce a mobile workstation with:
I thought this article was a comparison between two specific MacBook models, not a critique of Apple's overall macOS laptop strategy. That being said, the 15 inch model, which is beyond the relevancy of the article, is the "heavy-lifter workstation" of the macOS laptop range. Workstations of the past were desktop computers that performed a few and/or specialised computational tasks far more quickly than "everyday" personal computers. Workstations aren't defined by how many ports they have and what you can plug into them: they're defined by their computational power and ability to perform tasks quickly.
Besides comparing MBA vs low end MBP performance, Apple should add one additional port on right side. That doesn't change performance comparison but does change "more desire" to buy MBA when performance not main criteria. As of today, even I don't have need for performance, because MBP offers 4 ports, I will have to buy that and curse Apple for making me pay for something i don't need.
I think Apple are making too many laptops, with the air. They dropped the 12 inch. But the air that is left, I find it pointless. It is not light enough to really be an air. Plus it is only a 7 watt TDP processor, and only two cores. For those reasons alone I would go with the pro. I feel that Apple should be concentrating on economies of scale with the pro, and just selling that. Splitting your customers off on to the air seems wasteful at this point.
MacBook Air is an excellent corporate laptop to be sold by ten thousands. That is economies of scale...
That's true -- at least for some. But being a non-repairable, non-upgradeable machine it becomes a disposable consumable from the perspective of most IT departments. Frankly I have never worked with one or for one that would go there.
Enterprises don’t repair or upgrade. They trash and get new. Within a deal of ten thousands, repairs and upgrades are already covered by the deal. Corporate accounts work differently than individual accounts.
As I said, that has not been my experience. Quite the opposite really. One of the manifests of most IT departments is to operate cost efficiently -- which is one of the reasons why they control the purchasing and distribution of equipment. So, throwing away a $1,500 piece of equipment for a minor, easily fixed problem like a failed harddrive is incompatible with their mandate.
In 25 years in the field I have never seen one act the way you describe. I have no doubt that they are out there -- many are perhaps contractors supporting networks for mom 7 pop operations. But no major IT department would waste money like that.
More than anything one image in the video struck me and stuck with me: The Opening Shot of the Two Machines Side by Side: I couldn't tell them apart - there was literally no way to know which was which!
Apple needs to break out of its thin, light, minimalist design prison.
One way would be to produce a mobile workstation with:
I thought this article was a comparison between two specific MacBook models, not a critique of Apple's overall macOS laptop strategy. That being said, the 15 inch model, which is beyond the relevancy of the article, is the "heavy-lifter workstation" of the macOS laptop range. Workstations of the past were desktop computers that performed a few and/or specialised computational tasks far more quickly than "everyday" personal computers. Workstations aren't defined by how many ports they have and what you can plug into them: they're defined by their computational power and ability to perform tasks quickly.
I would say that they are judged based on their ability to do a job and fulfilll a function. If I can't plug in a USB drive or any other function I need and reasonably expect it to perform it has failed.
And, my comparison stands: You simply can't tell the difference in the machines without opening them up. They could just as easily put low power processor in an MBP and and call it an MBA. They are stuck in the "thin, light, minimalist" design prison.
And, again, there's nothing wrong with Thin, Light & MInimalist just as there is nothing wrong with a StingRay. But thankfully Chevolet makes more than just StingRays.
I think Apple are making too many laptops, with the air. They dropped the 12 inch. But the air that is left, I find it pointless. It is not light enough to really be an air. Plus it is only a 7 watt TDP processor, and only two cores. For those reasons alone I would go with the pro. I feel that Apple should be concentrating on economies of scale with the pro, and just selling that. Splitting your customers off on to the air seems wasteful at this point.
MacBook Air is an excellent corporate laptop to be sold by ten thousands. That is economies of scale...
That's true -- at least for some. But being a non-repairable, non-upgradeable machine it becomes a disposable consumable from the perspective of most IT departments. Frankly I have never worked with one or for one that would go there.
Enterprises don’t repair or upgrade. They trash and get new. Within a deal of ten thousands, repairs and upgrades are already covered by the deal. Corporate accounts work differently than individual accounts.
As I said, that has not been my experience. Quite the opposite really. One of the manifests of most IT departments is to operate cost efficiently -- which is one of the reasons why they control the purchasing and distribution of equipment. So, throwing away a $1,500 piece of equipment for a minor, easily fixed problem like a failed harddrive is incompatible with their mandate.
In 25 years in the field I have never seen one act the way you describe. I have no doubt that they are out there -- many are perhaps contractors supporting networks for mom 7 pop operations. But no major IT department would waste money like that.
You can do better than that ;-) No one throws away anything. If you have sold thousands of devices to a corporate account of course you can replace a failed one with a new one and that’s already part of the deal. They don’t need to make a “user-repairable” thing. What about individuals’ needs? Well, individuals are already not capable of repairing such highly integrated products and T2 chip is not sold on Amazon. They will go to an authorized Apple service and the thing will be repaired or replaced depending on Apple’s internal policies, at cost if the thing is out-of-warranty. No need to mention AppleCare. Almost all jurisdictions impose they service the product and they maintain enough stock of spare parts until the product becomes obsolete by law.
I think Apple are making too many laptops, with the air. They dropped the 12 inch. But the air that is left, I find it pointless. It is not light enough to really be an air. Plus it is only a 7 watt TDP processor, and only two cores. For those reasons alone I would go with the pro. I feel that Apple should be concentrating on economies of scale with the pro, and just selling that. Splitting your customers off on to the air seems wasteful at this point.
MacBook Air is an excellent corporate laptop to be sold by ten thousands. That is economies of scale...
That's true -- at least for some. But being a non-repairable, non-upgradeable machine it becomes a disposable consumable from the perspective of most IT departments. Frankly I have never worked with one or for one that would go there.
Enterprises don’t repair or upgrade. They trash and get new. Within a deal of ten thousands, repairs and upgrades are already covered by the deal. Corporate accounts work differently than individual accounts.
As I said, that has not been my experience. Quite the opposite really. One of the manifests of most IT departments is to operate cost efficiently -- which is one of the reasons why they control the purchasing and distribution of equipment. So, throwing away a $1,500 piece of equipment for a minor, easily fixed problem like a failed harddrive is incompatible with their mandate.
In 25 years in the field I have never seen one act the way you describe. I have no doubt that they are out there -- many are perhaps contractors supporting networks for mom 7 pop operations. But no major IT department would waste money like that.
My company's (100000+ employees) IT department policy is to repair anything covered by warranty and trash it if there's a failure out of warranty. We always buy an extended warranty which usually puts it at 3-5 years of coverage. Any upgrades (including laptop battery replacements) are paid for by the business department. We also schedule replacements of desktops/laptops around the end of their warranty period. There are a few exceptions (like mine where I have a desktop as my primary PC and a laptop as a secondary -- the laptop's warranty expired 1.5 years ago).
My personal take on the corporate policy is that they replace personal computers too soon. The performance and reliability improvements don't warrant such a short cycle. Most of the bottlenecks of performance for business use are I/O related and server-side. Any increases in equipment failures are mitigated by having readily available spares/loaners, all important data on servers or backed up, and quick recovery time by standardized imaging.
I would pick the Air for one reason....no stinking Touch Bar
What a surprise. Have either of you ever even used it? It’s a helluva lot more useful than a Launchpad button and other junk that was up there.
I've used it for 2 years now. Meh. As others have commented, even Apple really hasn't embraced the Touch Bar. It's a gimmick that they play around with.
In a few cases it's useful, sometimes it just gets in my way. I often find myself overreaching a bit for the top-row keys, and end up touching the Touch Bar,, making it do something I don't want. Most often I end up activating Siri instead of hitting delete.
The big drawback for the Touch Bar is the fact that you have to look away from the screen to use it. If you are used to touch typing, that's a deal-breaker. no physical escape key kind of sucks, too. Again, this is strictly because of the lack of tactile feedback from a key. Of course, the tactile feedback from the butterfly keyboard sucks, so going to the Touch Bar isn't a big leap.
So yeah, if I had my choice, I'd get a 15" MPB with no Touch Bar. (As long as I'm wishing, ditch 2 of the USB C ports for a more useful USB-A port and a MagSafe charging port.)
It is a dilemma. I would want to buy MBPs for my daughters, but I am sure the younger one would probably want the gold MBA. Maybe the money and weight saved would go to a USB hub so when inevitably one of her friends want to give her something on a USB stick she can actually use it.
on the touchbar issue: I think adoption would be easier if Apple actually went all in. Where is the magic keyboard with a Touch Bar? Will the Mac Pro, iMac pro and the iMac end up with the touchbar? because i suspect one reason there is still grief about it (apart from raising the cost of the notebook) is it isn’t universal enough for a critical mass of developers to bother taking advantage of it.
Not USB hub, just a USB-A adapter, not bigger than a lipstick or an eye mascara. The hub may be purchased afterwards and be left at home for occasional use.
And how many times have you reached in your pocket for that chapstick and found it gone, or in your other pair of pants, or on the bathroom counter... That's exactly giving 4 USB C ports and no USB A ports is such a moronic idea. It's not the cost. It's not the fact that you can't have a USB C-A adaptor with you, it's the fact that virtually no one needs 4 USB C ports, while the entire world is still using USB A.
It is a dilemma. I would want to buy MBPs for my daughters, but I am sure the younger one would probably want the gold MBA. Maybe the money and weight saved would go to a USB hub so when inevitably one of her friends want to give her something on a USB stick she can actually use it.
on the touchbar issue: I think adoption would be easier if Apple actually went all in. Where is the magic keyboard with a Touch Bar? Will the Mac Pro, iMac pro and the iMac end up with the touchbar? because i suspect one reason there is still grief about it (apart from raising the cost of the notebook) is it isn’t universal enough for a critical mass of developers to bother taking advantage of it.
Not USB hub, just a USB-A adapter, not bigger than a lipstick or an eye mascara. The hub may be purchased afterwards and be left at home for occasional use.
And how many times have you reached in your pocket for that chapstick and found it gone, or in your other pair of pants, or on the bathroom counter... That's exactly giving 4 USB C ports and no USB A ports is such a moronic idea. It's not the cost. It's not the fact that you can't have a USB C-A adaptor with you, it's the fact that virtually no one needs 4 USB C ports, while the entire world is still using USB A.
Anything else?... When Steve Jobs first introduced USB with the bondi iMac the entire world was not using it. And God forbid, man! he’d even ditched the floppy drive, OMG, OMF...
It is a dilemma. I would want to buy MBPs for my daughters, but I am sure the younger one would probably want the gold MBA. Maybe the money and weight saved would go to a USB hub so when inevitably one of her friends want to give her something on a USB stick she can actually use it.
on the touchbar issue: I think adoption would be easier if Apple actually went all in. Where is the magic keyboard with a Touch Bar? Will the Mac Pro, iMac pro and the iMac end up with the touchbar? because i suspect one reason there is still grief about it (apart from raising the cost of the notebook) is it isn’t universal enough for a critical mass of developers to bother taking advantage of it.
Not USB hub, just a USB-A adapter, not bigger than a lipstick or an eye mascara. The hub may be purchased afterwards and be left at home for occasional use.
And how many times have you reached in your pocket for that chapstick and found it gone, or in your other pair of pants, or on the bathroom counter... That's exactly giving 4 USB C ports and no USB A ports is such a moronic idea. It's not the cost. It's not the fact that you can't have a USB C-A adaptor with you, it's the fact that virtually no one needs 4 USB C ports, while the entire world is still using USB A.
Anything else?... When Steve Jobs first introduced USB with the bondi iMac the entire world was not using it. And God forbid, man! he’d even ditched the floppy drive, OMG, OMF...
*rolleyes* They also sold a USB 3.5 which the majority of people bought because they needed it. The difference is that was a desktop, so having a drive plugged into your desktop computer wasn't a big deal. The entire point of a laptop is convenience and portability. lugging extra equipment around isn't in that equation.
If you notice, I never said "get rid of USB C," Nor did I say "USB C is useless." What I said was virtually the entire world still uses USB A and while you can make USB C work, it makes convenient and there is no good reason not to include a single USB A port.
It's interesting - whenever I suggest including a single USB A port on a MBP, people jump to the "USB C is the future! You're just a luddite and against progress" argument. Essentially, from what I can tell, they don't have a counter argument, so they try to change the initial argument to one the can better counter. If you can counter my argument without changing it, go ahead. Otherwise think about why you can't.
It is a dilemma. I would want to buy MBPs for my daughters, but I am sure the younger one would probably want the gold MBA. Maybe the money and weight saved would go to a USB hub so when inevitably one of her friends want to give her something on a USB stick she can actually use it.
on the touchbar issue: I think adoption would be easier if Apple actually went all in. Where is the magic keyboard with a Touch Bar? Will the Mac Pro, iMac pro and the iMac end up with the touchbar? because i suspect one reason there is still grief about it (apart from raising the cost of the notebook) is it isn’t universal enough for a critical mass of developers to bother taking advantage of it.
Not USB hub, just a USB-A adapter, not bigger than a lipstick or an eye mascara. The hub may be purchased afterwards and be left at home for occasional use.
And how many times have you reached in your pocket for that chapstick and found it gone, or in your other pair of pants, or on the bathroom counter... That's exactly giving 4 USB C ports and no USB A ports is such a moronic idea. It's not the cost. It's not the fact that you can't have a USB C-A adaptor with you, it's the fact that virtually no one needs 4 USB C ports, while the entire world is still using USB A.
Anything else?... When Steve Jobs first introduced USB with the bondi iMac the entire world was not using it. And God forbid, man! he’d even ditched the floppy drive, OMG, OMF...
*rolleyes* They also sold a USB 3.5 which the majority of people bought because they needed it. The difference is that was a desktop, so having a drive plugged into your desktop computer wasn't a big deal. The entire point of a laptop is convenience and portability. lugging extra equipment around isn't in that equation.
If you notice, I never said "get rid of USB C," Nor did I say "USB C is useless." What I said was virtually the entire world still uses USB A and while you can make USB C work, it makes convenient and there is no good reason not to include a single USB A port.
It's interesting - whenever I suggest including a single USB A port on a MBP, people jump to the "USB C is the future! You're just a luddite and against progress" argument. Essentially, from what I can tell, they don't have a counter argument, so they try to change the initial argument to one the can better counter. If you can counter my argument without changing it, go ahead. Otherwise think about why you can't.
...At that time the entire world was using RS232 and PS/2 ports. None of them was included in the bondi iMac. In Apple platforms such an argument as theentire world uses <insert something> is not recognized, so... do not roll your eyes.
It is a dilemma. I would want to buy MBPs for my daughters, but I am sure the younger one would probably want the gold MBA. Maybe the money and weight saved would go to a USB hub so when inevitably one of her friends want to give her something on a USB stick she can actually use it.
on the touchbar issue: I think adoption would be easier if Apple actually went all in. Where is the magic keyboard with a Touch Bar? Will the Mac Pro, iMac pro and the iMac end up with the touchbar? because i suspect one reason there is still grief about it (apart from raising the cost of the notebook) is it isn’t universal enough for a critical mass of developers to bother taking advantage of it.
Not USB hub, just a USB-A adapter, not bigger than a lipstick or an eye mascara. The hub may be purchased afterwards and be left at home for occasional use.
And how many times have you reached in your pocket for that chapstick and found it gone, or in your other pair of pants, or on the bathroom counter... That's exactly giving 4 USB C ports and no USB A ports is such a moronic idea. It's not the cost. It's not the fact that you can't have a USB C-A adaptor with you, it's the fact that virtually no one needs 4 USB C ports, while the entire world is still using USB A.
Anything else?... When Steve Jobs first introduced USB with the bondi iMac the entire world was not using it. And God forbid, man! he’d even ditched the floppy drive, OMG, OMF...
*rolleyes* They also sold a USB 3.5 which the majority of people bought because they needed it. The difference is that was a desktop, so having a drive plugged into your desktop computer wasn't a big deal. The entire point of a laptop is convenience and portability. lugging extra equipment around isn't in that equation.
If you notice, I never said "get rid of USB C," Nor did I say "USB C is useless." What I said was virtually the entire world still uses USB A and while you can make USB C work, it makes convenient and there is no good reason not to include a single USB A port.
It's interesting - whenever I suggest including a single USB A port on a MBP, people jump to the "USB C is the future! You're just a luddite and against progress" argument. Essentially, from what I can tell, they don't have a counter argument, so they try to change the initial argument to one the can better counter. If you can counter my argument without changing it, go ahead. Otherwise think about why you can't.
...At that time the entire world was using RS232 and PS/2 ports. None of them was included in the bondi iMac. In Apple platforms such an argument as theentire world uses <insert something> is not recognized, so... do not roll your eyes.
rolling eyes again - read my post and respond to the argument, not the other irrelevant one you drug up.
Comments
If it's only 4 years, that's a BIG thumbs down! If the keyboard breaks on a 4 year old MacBook, at $700+ to repair it you would be better off just scrapping the machine.
What happened was: The Pro kept getting cut down and limited down until it became an Air with better processors.
Apple needs to rethink that strategy. It's like Henry Ford selling cars in any color you want -- as long as its black.
But being a non-repairable, non-upgradeable machine it becomes a disposable consumable from the perspective of most IT departments. Frankly I have never worked with one or for one that would go there.
That being said, the 15 inch model, which is beyond the relevancy of the article, is the "heavy-lifter workstation" of the macOS laptop range.
Workstations of the past were desktop computers that performed a few and/or specialised computational tasks far more quickly than "everyday" personal computers.
Workstations aren't defined by how many ports they have and what you can plug into them: they're defined by their computational power and ability to perform tasks quickly.
In 25 years in the field I have never seen one act the way you describe. I have no doubt that they are out there -- many are perhaps contractors supporting networks for mom 7 pop operations. But no major IT department would waste money like that.
And, my comparison stands: You simply can't tell the difference in the machines without opening them up. They could just as easily put low power processor in an MBP and and call it an MBA. They are stuck in the "thin, light, minimalist" design prison.
And, again, there's nothing wrong with Thin, Light & MInimalist just as there is nothing wrong with a StingRay. But thankfully Chevolet makes more than just StingRays.
My personal take on the corporate policy is that they replace personal computers too soon. The performance and reliability improvements don't warrant such a short cycle. Most of the bottlenecks of performance for business use are I/O related and server-side. Any increases in equipment failures are mitigated by having readily available spares/loaners, all important data on servers or backed up, and quick recovery time by standardized imaging.
In a few cases it's useful, sometimes it just gets in my way. I often find myself overreaching a bit for the top-row keys, and end up touching the Touch Bar,, making it do something I don't want. Most often I end up activating Siri instead of hitting delete.
The big drawback for the Touch Bar is the fact that you have to look away from the screen to use it. If you are used to touch typing, that's a deal-breaker. no physical escape key kind of sucks, too. Again, this is strictly because of the lack of tactile feedback from a key. Of course, the tactile feedback from the butterfly keyboard sucks, so going to the Touch Bar isn't a big leap.
So yeah, if I had my choice, I'd get a 15" MPB with no Touch Bar. (As long as I'm wishing, ditch 2 of the USB C ports for a more useful USB-A port and a MagSafe charging port.)
They also sold a USB 3.5 which the majority of people bought because they needed it. The difference is that was a desktop, so having a drive plugged into your desktop computer wasn't a big deal. The entire point of a laptop is convenience and portability. lugging extra equipment around isn't in that equation.
If you notice, I never said "get rid of USB C," Nor did I say "USB C is useless." What I said was virtually the entire world still uses USB A and while you can make USB C work, it makes convenient and there is no good reason not to include a single USB A port.
It's interesting - whenever I suggest including a single USB A port on a MBP, people jump to the "USB C is the future! You're just a luddite and against progress" argument. Essentially, from what I can tell, they don't have a counter argument, so they try to change the initial argument to one the can better counter. If you can counter my argument without changing it, go ahead. Otherwise think about why you can't.
Look at the benchmarks. It’s not about fashion, they’re different tools for different priorities.