Apple loses ground to Samsung in European smartphone market

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 60
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,634member
    Most of my friends used to have iPhones. Now most of my friends have Android phones, at half the cost of an iPhone with 80% of the features. Every one of them has said the reason they switched was the price, they're totally happy with their £350 Androids which do everything they need. Most people don't need an 8-core CPU with 6GB RAM and the very best camera, to which Apple's answer to is the still-too-expensive Xr. Apple doesn't make a phone for most people anymore, so they find what they're looking for in the Android world for half the cost of the iPhone. In fact I'm sure most people would be happy with 6s performance and features for something like £349.

    Even at the high end, people can get a top-of-the-line Samsung with more storage for less dollar than an iPhone Xs. Samsung's lesser phones are much cheaper than the 8 and the Xr, and are current, unlike the 8. Apple used to be expensive but pretty good value, now they're a ripoff. I'm still rocking my 6s and refuse to pay Apple's overinflated prices for an Xs.
    edited August 2019 muthuk_vanalingampropodsaarekgatorguykestral
  • Reply 22 of 60
    I see you all fell for the fake news. Apple doesn't release its sales figures, nor do the other cell phone makers, so all of you are reacting to this fake news article which falsely implies that there are actual figures. No one but Apple knows if the sales percentage is up or down. 

    Keep your eye on the ball. These analysts are selling their analysis, (and in some cases trying to pump or dump a stock), so they need to keep producing reports, regardless of their accuracy.  I understand the pressure; they have to pay their bills like everyone else, but it doesn't justify that they are pumping out speculation and guesses.

    It would help if AI and other sites would not use fake news headlines.  The remedy is to be accurate, as they were if you read farther into the article where they casually mention that the firm "claims" there is a drop. That should be in the headline, but of course, it doesn't attract as many readers when it is announced as a fact that Apple is "losing sales" to its competitors.  That's what's known as "click bait."  

      
    edited August 2019 StrangeDayspscooter63
  • Reply 23 of 60
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,205member
    I’m not surprised at all, most of the new features come to Europe later than US and we are to pay silly high prices!
    Thank your regulators and protectionist policies.
    I for one welcome their privacy protectionism policies. You don’t see the sorts of gross privacy violations there as here because the law is much stricter. Here in the land of the free it means the corps are free to collect, sell, and fail to protect our personal data. 
    muthuk_vanalingamelijahgpropod
  • Reply 24 of 60
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,304member
    KidGloves said:
    Apple is selling the 256GB iPhone 8 for more than a 512GB Galaxy S10. There's your problem right there for Apple.
    In a world where top-line Android phones are decent all-round machines, Apple is seen a being greedy. As a 30 year Apple user who has bought tens of thousands of pounds worth of Apple gear in that time, I'm getting totally fed up with the high prices and limited choice in each segment such as desktop Macs.
    In the past, it was worth it as Windows was a nightmare world I didn't want to enter into. Now though Windows and Android have got to the point of being passable. I might just make the move.
    Here in the states the Galaxy S10 512gb is $1,149.00 USD.  iPhone XS 256gb is $1,149.00 USD. This is straight up price ( Unlocked )  from their respective websites. No carrier incentives or deals.

    Posts like this confuse me.. This ^.. has you ready to make a move?  If you are a 30 year customer of Apple than you are well aware of the premium pricing for their products. This is nothing new.

    If you are ready to buy into a different ecosystem because they now have " decent" and " passable" hardware and software just to save a money so be it. Just seems like a lot of compromise to say you paid less..IMHO. 
    pscooter63
  • Reply 25 of 60
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,205member
    daven said:
    mike54 said:
    It's not rocket science. Why pay $1800+ when you can pay $300 and which does the things you want it to. Of course there are other reasons beside cost that make people choose iPhone.

    The biggest winner here is not Samsung, it is Google.
    The big money maker for the Android side has always been Google. [...]

    I think Apple sees this which is why the focus on services. But this puts them in a quandary. Investors are used to Apple doing what business should be doing... making money. How do you transition from a hardware company to a service company while continuing to make the money investors expect of Apple but don't seem to require from many other companies? If you lower the phone price, you forfeit a lot of profit and it takes a while for the service income to catch up. If you keep the phone price high, you may slowly shed the installed base  and your services income will drop. It is a fine line to dance.
    Errrnt. Apple is not "transitioning" from a hardware company to a service company. They have augmented their hardware revenue with services revenue. Which is great, but they still kill it in profit on the hardware, and that isn't going away.

    Why is this so hard for people to understand? It's not a pivot, it's an addition.

    Also, how big is the money Google makes from Android? As I recall they made more from iOS user base than Android itself, because people on iOS actually buy things.
  • Reply 26 of 60
    Europe is not one single market as there are 50 countries with over 225 indigenous languages. Most of these countries and languages don't see a single shred of Apple marketing. In addition there is significant differences in price sensitivity between countries.

    Equally there are probably minimum 3 times as many major operators as there are countries, and these will to a much larger extent use Android based handsets to differentiate their offerings in their region than what is possible with the few Apple handset models to chose from.

    With the significant price hike Apple did last year, the effect of VAT kicks customers right in their pocket, and add to that currency fluctuations amplifying Apple's base (US) price increase. 

    As was mentioned above, many of the services offerings Apple tout at their product presentations simply don't exist in any European market, perhaps with the exception of the UK. This is never reflected in lower prices, and may for many feel as a complete rip-off or broken promises.

    Finally much of Apple's BS 
    virtual signaling does not fly with European customers. In the LGBT area large sections of Europe made these reforms and freedoms 25 years ago, and listening to it from Apple management gets very old or now irrelevant. At the other side of the coin, the message does not fly at all in Eastern Europe and in the many predominantly Muslim markets in the East.

    Also Apple's marketing focus on US holidays and events does likewise not fly, simply because most of these are completely irrelevant to the European customer base. They celebrate a plethora of national and religious holidays and events that are not at all based in the US "shopping" seasons. So the timing for sales (as if Apple ever had one) and campaigns may therefore miss spectacularly. 
    edited August 2019 muthuk_vanalingampropod
  • Reply 27 of 60
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,205member

    spice-boy said:
    I know there are a lot fans of the "free market" mantra here and all I can say is the free market has spoken and it now prefers Samsung. 
    So Libertarians rejoice, the strong will survive and your favorite brand was the weaker. 
    Delusional, son. Define stronger & weaker. Sounds to me like you're talking about market share, and we all know Apple doesn't worship at the Church of Market Share. They won't give up their historic, recording-setting, massively successful, profit in order to give random fanboys on the interwebs something to brag about. Nope. They would rather sell fewer and do better. Which is why Mac has a smaller market share than Windows but earns more profit. Or why they never go into the cheap netbook craze, etc etc. 

    Same as it ever was. Apparently still difficult for some people to grasp.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 28 of 60
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,205member

    frantisek said:
    Phones will become commodity.. Just get to used for that. Main drive was speed and camera. It is so good now that improvements wont be that important for people. Not sure how many people will be amazed from AR and its benefits.

    That is why Apple invest in Watch and other areas because it is where growth will be.Watch + AirPods combo will become more and more capable not talking about health monitoring.

    It will be difficult to compete against mid range Androids as they can make great pics nowadays and it is question how much are able older iPhone models keep up with them. We can not expect Apple will update say iPhone 8 or 7 with 2019 sensors.or at least 2018 ones.

    "Phones PCs will become commodity"

    Remember when that was the conversation we used to have on these forums? Yeah. And yet, over 40 years later, Apple is still here, still selling their PCs that cost more than commodity PCs, and doing so with the best profit in the PC sector. 
    hydrogen
  • Reply 29 of 60
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,205member
    elijahg said:
    Most of my friends used to have iPhones. Now most of my friends have Android phones, at half the cost of an iPhone with 80% of the features. Every one of them has said the reason they switched was the price, they're totally happy with their £350 Androids which do everything they need. Most people don't need an 8-core CPU with 6GB RAM and the very best camera, to which Apple's answer to is the still-too-expensive Xr. Apple doesn't make a phone for most people anymore, so they find what they're looking for in the Android world for half the cost of the iPhone. In fact I'm sure most people would be happy with 6s performance and features for something like £349.

    Even at the high end, people can get a top-of-the-line Samsung with more storage for less dollar than an iPhone Xs. Samsung's lesser phones are much cheaper than the 8 and the Xr, and are current, unlike the 8. Apple used to be expensive but pretty good value, now they're a ripoff. I'm still rocking my 6s and refuse to pay Apple's overinflated prices for an Xs.
    Oh nos! Some guy on a rumors site said his friends prefer the knockoffs! Welp, it was a good run while it lasted. Shut 'er down, boys -- shut down the company and give the money to the shareholders, Apple is done. 

    LOL. Some of you are too much. 

    Sorry you can't afford an iPhone. I assure you, it's not a ripoff. As my pocket computer it delivers immense value to me, and with the interest-free installment plan costs a fraction of most cable service. Cut back 2 beers a week and you can afford one too, I'm sure. 
    superkloton
  • Reply 30 of 60
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,205member

    Notsofast said:
    I see you all fell for the fake news. Apple doesn't release its sales figures, nor do the other cell phone makers, so all of you are reacting to this fake news article which falsely implies that there are actual figures. No one but Apple knows if the sales percentage is up or down. 

    Keep your eye on the ball. These analysts are selling their analysis, (and in some cases trying to pump or dump a stock), so they need to keep producing reports, regardless of their accuracy.  I understand the pressure; they have to pay their bills like everyone else, but it doesn't justify that they are pumping out speculation and guesses.

    It would help if AI and other sites would not use fake news headlines.  The remedy is to be accurate, as they were if you read farther into the article where they casually mention that the firm "claims" there is a drop. That should be in the headline, but of course, it doesn't attract as many readers when it is announced as a fact that Apple is "losing sales" to its competitors.  That's what's known as "click bait."   
    Agreed -- this headline is fake, and is disappointing for AI. Since this is an unverified rumor/report, it should begin with "Report: yada yada yada..."
  • Reply 31 of 60
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,339member

    Notsofast said:
    I see you all fell for the fake news. Apple doesn't release its sales figures, nor do the other cell phone makers, so all of you are reacting to this fake news article which falsely implies that there are actual figures. No one but Apple knows if the sales percentage is up or down. 

    Keep your eye on the ball. These analysts are selling their analysis, (and in some cases trying to pump or dump a stock), so they need to keep producing reports, regardless of their accuracy.  I understand the pressure; they have to pay their bills like everyone else, but it doesn't justify that they are pumping out speculation and guesses.

    It would help if AI and other sites would not use fake news headlines.  The remedy is to be accurate, as they were if you read farther into the article where they casually mention that the firm "claims" there is a drop. That should be in the headline, but of course, it doesn't attract as many readers when it is announced as a fact that Apple is "losing sales" to its competitors.  That's what's known as "click bait."   
    Agreed -- this headline is fake, and is disappointing for AI. Since this is an unverified rumor/report, it should begin with "Report: yada yada yada..."
    This swings both ways. AI and especially DED reflect estimates provided by Canalys and Counterpoint. 

    The analysis may shed good or not so good light on Apple's situation but that doesn't make it fake news in the slightest.

    Granted, the title is attention grabbing but the first two paragraphs leave things crystal clear on what we are dealing with: Analyst Estimates.

    From that point on, it's plain sailing. Speculate to your heart's content.
    bigtds
  • Reply 32 of 60
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,762member
    avon b7 said:
    From a European perspective and the Spanish market in particular I think Apple has two root problems.

    One is that, generally speaking, you don't see switchers from Android to iOS but you do see switchers from iOS to Android. Android switching (to other Androids) is seen as a plus as users get a lot to choose from and choice is important. Most Apple retail stores are visited by Apple users, not Android users looking to switch. It means that they already have an iDevice but if what is on offer is not compelling enough or too expensive, Apple misses out on the sale (which could be temporary or permanent).

    The other point is clearly the price of entry. Many (myself included) are simply turned off by the price tag. On top of that you don't get the 'value' that most of us look for in any purchase. The good news here is that the fix is easy as long as Apple decides to implement it.

    Apart from that, Samsung and Huawei are traditional heavy hitters with something for everyone in every price band. And now, both Oppo and especially Xiaomi are establishing distribution, support and service here making them attractive propositions too. Huawei has its largest Huawei retail store outside China in Madrid. 

    For visibility Samsung takes the biscuit with Huawei not far behind. Apple isn't invisible but perhaps is overly reliant on the Apple retail operations. There are 'campaigns' but there isn't really much to 'sell'. We had the photography and battery duration campaigns but most people already take for granted that Huawei and Samsung are kings of the hill on those fronts, which in turn puts them on the radars of iOS users. Mainstream press has more news on Android technology simply because there is much more of it and the flow is constant.

    With the possible exception of the UK, I think it's now harder for Apple in the EU.

    The 'good enough' factor is very real and for good reason. However, it impacts all manufacturers and not just Apple.

    In spite of everything, iPhones are a common sight but I still see more older iPhones (heads and chins) than newer notched variants. How old is hard to tell and it is impossible to know if those users will stay on iOS or switch when it comes to upgrading.

    All I can say is that competition (for everyone) is very intense and if you have a limited product spread at high prices (factor in 21% sales tax to every phone) you will find it harder to sell your products.

    Let's not forget either that I'm speaking about iPhones here, not other Apple products.

    I think price drops across the iPhone line would definitely help more than any other course of action. Whether they happen or not is anybody's guess.
    This looks to be the death spiral of Android OEM's trading margins for marketshare, and, ultimately, low profitability. Proof of that is that the iPhone XR is selling better by far than any other Android OS flagships, per the graphic in the post. Given that Xaomi is seeing huge growth driven by its stated goal of a 5% profit cap, I can't imagine more than a few Android OS device makers surviving even a weak recession in the future.

    Yeah, but fucking marketshare rules!
  • Reply 33 of 60
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,572member
    KidGloves said:
    Apple is selling the 256GB iPhone 8 for more than a 512GB Galaxy S10. There's your problem right there for Apple.
    In a world where top-line Android phones are decent all-round machines, Apple is seen a being greedy. As a 30 year Apple user who has bought tens of thousands of pounds worth of Apple gear in that time, I'm getting totally fed up with the high prices and limited choice in each segment such as desktop Macs.
    In the past, it was worth it as Windows was a nightmare world I didn't want to enter into. Now though Windows and Android have got to the point of being passable. I might just make the move.

    Actually that is hardly a problem for Apple. Apple is extremely smart about how they deal with the market. Everyone else is ONLY worried about marketshare where they dump millions of "cheap" phones on the market with high turnaround rates. Apple on the other hand only sells high quality devices, at higher prices, that last a lot longer. They don't worry about marketshare, they are more concerned about user satisfaction and experience to keep more of those customers Apple users.

    Whether you see Apple as greedy or not is your problem. Apple can command higher prices because they limit what they produce... for a good reason. When you concentrate on making a few devices you can make sure quality remains high. Not only that, Apple has also sent billions and billions building out a platform and ecosystem that no other comes close to.
  • Reply 34 of 60
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,396member
    I’m not surprised at all, most of the new features come to Europe later than US and we are to pay silly high prices!
    Thank your regulators and protectionist policies.
    For some features that might be part of the problem, but for a lot of other features it's no excuse.

    Pime example, that I just discovered today. If I ask my HomePod to play the top 20 from 1999 it tells me "Sorry, I don't know the historical charts from your country." What the actual fuck?!?!? Apple Music was released way back in 2015, and they still have not bothered to add something as simple as the UK charts to the service? Something so mind numbingly simple and obvious and they just don't bother to do it.

    There are so many examples of Apple just not giving a shit about their users outside of the USA. Frequently we pay more for a much poorer service. There is no excuse for sometihng as simple as the above, the UK is a key market for Apple generating billions of dollars of their yearly income and yet they pull shit like this.
    ElCapitanmuthuk_vanalingamelijahgcropr
  • Reply 35 of 60
    elijahg said:
    Most of my friends used to have iPhones. Now most of my friends have Android phones, at half the cost of an iPhone with 80% of the features. Every one of them has said the reason they switched was the price, they're totally happy with their £350 Androids which do everything they need. Most people don't need an 8-core CPU with 6GB RAM and the very best camera, to which Apple's answer to is the still-too-expensive Xr. Apple doesn't make a phone for most people anymore, so they find what they're looking for in the Android world for half the cost of the iPhone. In fact I'm sure most people would be happy with 6s performance and features for something like £349.

    Even at the high end, people can get a top-of-the-line Samsung with more storage for less dollar than an iPhone Xs. Samsung's lesser phones are much cheaper than the 8 and the Xr, and are current, unlike the 8. Apple used to be expensive but pretty good value, now they're a ripoff. I'm still rocking my 6s and refuse to pay Apple's overinflated prices for an Xs.
    Oh nos! Some guy on a rumors site said his friends prefer the knockoffs! Welp, it was a good run while it lasted. Shut 'er down, boys -- shut down the company and give the money to the shareholders, Apple is done. 

    LOL. Some of you are too much. 

    Sorry you can't afford an iPhone. I assure you, it's not a ripoff. As my pocket computer it delivers immense value to me, and with the interest-free installment plan costs a fraction of most cable service. Cut back 2 beers a week and you can afford one too, I'm sure. 
    .....btw. one of the things Apple doesn't offer (at least in my country) is interest free installment plan
  • Reply 36 of 60
    RajkaRajka Posts: 32member
    Apple rubs me wrong in all the wrong ways today. There's a fair chance I will switch to Android when my iPhone finally dies. I just don't see that much difference in that market. I would like to do the same for the Mac too and jump to another OS but I don't find the other platforms as compelling even after decades of improvement. I just don't care for Apple 3.0; it has become just your a typical corporation with a primary focus on creating greater shareholder returns rather than delivering outstanding value to its customers. Meh.
    AI_liaselijahgkestral
  • Reply 37 of 60
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    But Apple is leading in smartphone profits which is all that matters, right?
  • Reply 38 of 60
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,423member
    daven said:
    mike54 said:
    It's not rocket science. Why pay $1800+ when you can pay $300 and which does the things you want it to. Of course there are other reasons beside cost that make people choose iPhone.

    The biggest winner here is not Samsung, it is Google.
    The big money maker for the Android side has always been Google. [...]

    I think Apple sees this which is why the focus on services. But this puts them in a quandary. Investors are used to Apple doing what business should be doing... making money. How do you transition from a hardware company to a service company while continuing to make the money investors expect of Apple but don't seem to require from many other companies? If you lower the phone price, you forfeit a lot of profit and it takes a while for the service income to catch up. If you keep the phone price high, you may slowly shed the installed base  and your services income will drop. It is a fine line to dance.
    Errrnt. Apple is not "transitioning" from a hardware company to a service company. They have augmented their hardware revenue with services revenue. Which is great, but they still kill it in profit on the hardware, and that isn't going away.

    Why is this so hard for people to understand? It's not a pivot, it's an addition.

    Also, how big is the money Google makes from Android? As I recall they made more from iOS user base than Android itself, because people on iOS actually buy things.
    They're making $B's every quarter from just the Play Store, so the Android project can't be a losing proposition. Does Google make money from Apple users too? Yup. Windows? Yup. Platform agnostic has benefits.

    Bonus: They don't need to pay to be the default search provider on billions of Google Android devices, and in the EU they'll be getting revenue from search providers who wish to be the default in accordance with the EU's antitrust requirements from a few months ago. There's lots of cogs in the revenue machine. All the big techs are going a great job at finding ways to monetize their user base. 
    edited August 2019 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 39 of 60
    Meanwhile, Tim Cook told us the iOS install base grew in every market.  There goes the ‘they all switched to Android’ narrative.  
  • Reply 40 of 60
    junior99 said:


    Similar situation and made the switch this year. Very happy with Windows 10 and my pixel phone.
    Let me guess. So your only purpose for being on this site is to troll?
    StrangeDaysSpamSandwich
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