Apple gets it but some people don't get it. The days of small screen size phone like 4" are long gone. So called SE2 will be smaller screen than current 5.5"+ iphones but nothing like SE iPhone.
The fact is: Now that they are able to do away with bezzles, they are able to make the screen bigger (which is how phones are measured) without making the external size of the case bigger. So, they can make a "Bigger" SE without making it any bigger! Neat!
Apple gets it but some people don't get it. The days of small screen size phone like 4" are long gone. So called SE2 will be smaller screen than current 5.5"+ iphones but nothing like SE iPhone.
The fact is: Now that they are able to do away with bezzles, they are
able to make the screen bigger (which is how phones are measured)
without making the external size of the case bigger. So, they can make a
"Bigger" SE without making it any bigger! Neat!
For many, SIZE is the reason we hold on to the SE. Give it the "X" treatment (more screen) and it will do well.
Same… but that's not what this rumor is suggesting at all.
The SE, as we all know, just updated the internals of the 5 series to then-modern components. It sounds like they're going to do that to the 8 now.
No bueno.
The SE had two selling points: It was small and it was cheap. At least from the comments here on AI, it seems that most people liked it for its size rather than its cost. If Apple feels the same, that leaves them open to produce an SE sized phone (as measured by its external form factor) with a far bigger screen.
Very roughly, by eliminating the bezels, they could put a screen he size of an iPhone 8 in a phone the size of an SE.
Apple gets it but some people don't get it. The days of small screen size phone like 4" are long gone. So called SE2 will be smaller screen than current 5.5"+ iphones but nothing like SE iPhone.
That's just silly. There are plenty of phones if you want the larger form factors. But, many of us specifically want the smaller form factor.
wood1208 said: Looks like winner for those iPhone users with liking for smaller foot print and value in mind. Big question is how Apple will achieve in iPhone 8 frame edge-to-edge screen with touch ID, without FaceID ?
If it is the size of the iPhone 8, then it isn't smaller. This looks more like a budget model. I wish Apple would stop confusing the two categories (ie: form factor and price).
lkrupp said: But that is exactly what the automobile market is telling manufacturers. Smart is exiting the U.S. market. Fiat is ceasing production of the 500. Sedans are being phased out by all of the big automobile makers. Fans of a certain type of design always assume there are millions of other that think the same. It’s no longer feasible or profitable for automobile makers to produce vehicles for a minority market. That’s why the crossover SUV and pickup truck are dominating the market these days. Same goes for the smaller iPhone SE crowd that is very vocal here. Apple has no incentive to satisfy your craving. Why should they? But hey, blather on brother.
I agree to a point (the analogy kind of fell flat because of the reality going on in that market). But, there are still plenty of makers of sedans. And, there is no reason a more intelligent company can't serve more than one generic perceived market. (ie. those automakers going to all crossover SUVs, are mostly the same automakers failing in general... or to put it more bluntly, idiots.)
I know so many people who bought a SE (and still use it) because it is small. Apple should seriously consider a phone without a front camera that is even smaller than the SE but all screen.
I'm not sure the (smartphone) market could be stretched quite that far.... but, the thing is, Apple never did it correctly, so they have no clue. If they had produced an SE form factor with more of the top-of-the-line model's tech, it might have outsold the larger versions, but we don't know. So, when people went to the store and looked, they may have well wanted an SE, but then decided they needed the better camera, or a bunch of other factors.
Yes, there is a valid argument to favor larger screens, in that you get more viewable and workable space, especially given people more heavily using phones/mobile. BUT, that doesn't mean there aren't a ton of people who have regular access to iPads, laptops, and desktops who would prefer a smaller device for practicality and ergonomics.
Apple basically saw the initial trend, went all in on it, and never did the homework to really understand and test it.
There is, however, a growing 'OTG' (off the grid) market Apple could tap into with such a phone, that was more phone and less (modern) smartphone with a huge emphasis on privacy (real privacy) and setup to be as 'OTG' as possible with some super-basics (ex: built-in, even hardware, VPN capability or stuff like that). Some people are actually buying older iPhone models or early (and re-released) smart-phones to have just enough communication to meet their needs and avoid the rest.
GeorgeBMac said: The SE had two selling points: It was small and it was cheap.
At least from the comments here on AI, it seems that most people liked it for its size rather than its cost. If Apple feels the same, that leaves them open to produce an SE sized phone (as measured by its external form factor) with a far bigger screen.
Very roughly, by eliminating the bezels, they could put a screen he size of an iPhone 8 in a phone the size of an SE.
Hmm, when my wife gets home, I'll have to look at that. Wouldn't it have to be somewhat bigger? (Unless you mean kinda roughly.)
I do wish they'd separate the 'budget' and 'form-factor' thing. I think they should absolutely have a more budget friendly device (not cheap, but lower cost than the regular lineup... sans some features). But, I think it is more likely budget oriented people would want a bigger screen, as they are more likely to use the phone as their solo computing device.
Meanwhile, I'm guessing most of us who love the SE form-factor, actually don't care as much about the cost, and would rather Apple pack as much tech in there as possible. Speaking for myself, I'd pay the prices of the regular iPhone lineup models for it.
That said, personally, I'd trade the screen size (ie. keep it smaller) to keep the TouchID unless it could be under the screen. But, I'm sure I'm in the minority on that. If Apple does such a thing, it will probably be an iPhone X type device in a SE form-factor. I'd buy that, but I'd miss TouchID a lot. (And, as I've stated many times, I'd also miss the 3.5mm jack... and fear that the Lightning port wouldn't last long the way I use it. But, I suppose I'm in the minority on that too.)
I agree with the last post. The success of this product would be because of the smaller size. Squeese the power of the current XR into something close to the size of the old SE with a full screen and face id and people will pay at LEAST what they pay for the XR. Low price does not need to be the selling point. They can go on selling last years model to appeal to the budget group. But tjere are some people like me who would pay a premium to get an iPhone close to the old 5 or SE size with a bigger screen (ie. the X, XR, XS)
When did Apple give up on slim? Surely after 5 years they could shave a cubic mm or ten from the iPhone 5s for a new SE.
still Xr minus smaller than an X might be worthy option give the 5s is being dropped from software support
The thinnest iPhone was the iPhone 6, which was released 5 years ago. Since then, the flagship models have been getting thicker and heavier, despite the “courageous” abandonment of the headphone jack. After using my Xs for a while now, the 6 seems downright futuristic—so thin and light. Obviously the spec bump is significant, but it’s not nearly as evident in normal use as it is on paper. I’m sure it would matter more to me if I used it for high-end gaming and cared about wireless charging. Where I notice it is the camera, and I like the water resistance. After a few months I got used to the size of the Xs, but I would still prefer something with decent specs but closer to the size of a 6 or SE.
salmonstk said: Low price does not need to be the selling point. They can go on selling last years model to appeal to the budget group.
I wish Apple would revise that though, too, and just create some more budget-oriented models. I think selling years-old models is just a bad idea from a user-experience perspective. Apple is a premium product company. You should be upgrading to better models for features, not because you bought a nearly obsolete model as new to save some money.
retrogusto said: ... despite the “courageous” abandonment of the headphone jack.
LOL, yeah. I think that might go down as being even more daft than the 'innovate my a__' statement. If they would have just went with their desire to claim that space, we might not have agreed on priorities, but it would have been a respectable decision. But, trying to sell it as 'brave' and some kind of leap forward, and calling it a 'legacy port' just leaves them being the laughing stock among anyone with an awareness of reality.
My hunch, though, is that they didn't literally mean 'thinness' but the overall size. I don't care so much if the phone is a bit thinner or thicker, but I don't want the other dimensions to be much bigger (or really any bigger) than the SE.
GeorgeBMac said: The SE had two selling points: It was small and it was cheap.
At least from the comments here on AI, it seems that most people liked it for its size rather than its cost. If Apple feels the same, that leaves them open to produce an SE sized phone (as measured by its external form factor) with a far bigger screen.
Very roughly, by eliminating the bezels, they could put a screen he size of an iPhone 8 in a phone the size of an SE.
Hmm, when my wife gets home, I'll have to look at that. Wouldn't it have to be somewhat bigger? (Unless you mean kinda roughly.)
I do wish they'd separate the 'budget' and 'form-factor' thing. I think they should absolutely have a more budget friendly device (not cheap, but lower cost than the regular lineup... sans some features). But, I think it is more likely budget oriented people would want a bigger screen, as they are more likely to use the phone as their solo computing device.
Meanwhile, I'm guessing most of us who love the SE form-factor, actually don't care as much about the cost, and would rather Apple pack as much tech in there as possible. Speaking for myself, I'd pay the prices of the regular iPhone lineup models for it.
That said, personally, I'd trade the screen size (ie. keep it smaller) to keep the TouchID unless it could be under the screen. But, I'm sure I'm in the minority on that. If Apple does such a thing, it will probably be an iPhone X type device in a SE form-factor. I'd buy that, but I'd miss TouchID a lot. (And, as I've stated many times, I'd also miss the 3.5mm jack... and fear that the Lightning port wouldn't last long the way I use it. But, I suppose I'm in the minority on that too.)
Yes, I meant very roughly -- particularly as the 6 introduced a thinner, thinner type screen.
That describes the iPhone XR pretty much. AN SE is supposed to satisfy the people that want a small screen and form factor.
I concur. There are a lot of people I know who have been waiting for a replacement small form factor iPhone to bring their outdated hardware up to speed. They are not holding out on pricing but on size! It’s long over due to give these folks what they want....
Disappointing news at best. We need a phone, not another miniature tablet. I don't understand why Apple refuses to spend minimal resources to cater an underserved market. And I don't accept that updating the internals of the widely-lauded SE form presents daunting engineering challenges to Apple.
salmonstk said: Low price does not need to be the selling point. They can go on selling last years model to appeal to the budget group.
I wish Apple would revise that though, too, and just create some more budget-oriented models. I think selling years-old models is just a bad idea from a user-experience perspective. Apple is a premium product company. You should be upgrading to better models for features, not because you bought a nearly obsolete model as new to save some money.
I have a feeling they do that is the production line start up costs. I think it takes a lot of money to get production ramped. So having all new phones and different tiers would mean every year new production line set up costs. Selling last year's models for the low end tier prevents that.
Apple basically saw the initial trend, went all in on it, and never did the homework to really understand and test it.
LOL, people on rumor websites purporting to be experts while claiming Apple doesn’t know what it’s doing or doesn't do its homework. The chuckles are endless.
You guys keep saying “But *I* like small phones!” as if that means it’s worth Apple’s trouble compared to selling bigger phones to more people. This is why Apple got out of making printers, scanners, routers, etc.
Apple gets it but some people don't get it. The days of small screen size phone like 4" are long gone. So called SE2 will be smaller screen than current 5.5"+ iphones but nothing like SE iPhone.
That's like saying roadsters are long gone... the smallest car that's needed to be built is a crossover SUV
But that is exactly what the automobile market is telling manufacturers. Smart is exiting the U.S. market. Fiat is ceasing production of the 500. Sedans are being phased out by all of the big automobile makers. Fans of a certain type of design always assume there are millions of other that think the same. It’s no longer feasible or profitable for automobile makers to produce vehicles for a minority market. That’s why the crossover SUV and pickup truck are dominating the market these days. Same goes for the smaller iPhone SE crowd that is very vocal here. Apple has no incentive to satisfy your craving. Why should they? But hey, blather on brother.
Yet the market is dropping so is falling demand in cars and phones due to people not needing phones / carsas often or because the "market" has decided not to service those customers and moan that aren't buying what they are told?
Music industry did the same thing... Heres the new music we tell you to like. Customer - No thanks there is already a heap of better music.
Phones industry you shall like big phones....Former Customers ohhh how long willll this SE last?
Car industry you shall like big car... Former Customers ooh e coversions of classic car or car share program why choose I can do both.
You guys keep saying “But *I* like small phones!” as if that means it’s worth Apple’s trouble compared to selling bigger phones to more people.
I like small phones and I can not lie. Apple generally doesn't make kit people ask for. Apple generally makes kit they believe people should want and would want, if they were smarter. So Apple does the 'thinking' for them.
But when the subject does come up, I make my preferences known, same as like and different minds do as well. Apple doesn't really listen, or at least not always, so I don't expect them ever to do what I want, and frequently end up liking what they do with what they think I should want.
So as the subject has come up again, I'll say want the SE upgraded while keeping the current form factor. Give me a full frontal screen. I think Apple could put a good 4.5/4.6" screen on the current SE. I can live without Face ID and Force/3D Touch (though I do like the idea of 3d Touch). I'll take a notch, no problema, it would be smaller. Earphone jack? I'd prefer to keep it, but if they want to take it, I can live with that too, if need be. Let the big boys have USB-C whenever they get it. I'm happy with the Lightning port.
The customary evolution bumps in processor, graphics, RAM, and storage are good enough for me. They don't have to be top tier.
The cost... I dunno. $550-$750 would be ok, maybe a little more. It's the form factor that I want, far more important to me than the price.
You guys keep saying “But *I* like small phones!” as if that means it’s worth Apple’s trouble compared to selling bigger phones to more people.
I like small phones and I can not lie. Apple generally doesn't make kit people ask for. Apple generally makes kit they believe people should want and would want, if they were smarter. So Apple does the 'thinking' for them.
But when the subject does come up, I make my preferences known, same as like and different minds do as well. Apple doesn't really listen, or at least not always, so I don't expect them ever to do what I want, and frequently end up liking what they do with what they think I should want.
So as the subject has come up again, I'll say want the SE upgraded while keeping the current form factor. Give me a full frontal screen. I think Apple could put a good 4.5/4.6" screen on the current SE. I can live without Face ID and Force/3D Touch (though I do like the idea of 3d Touch). I'll take a notch, no problema, it would be smaller. Earphone jack? I'd prefer to keep it, but if they want to take it, I can live with that too, if need be. Let the big boys have USB-C whenever they get it. I'm happy with the Lightning port.
The customary evolution bumps in processor, graphics, RAM, and storage are good enough for me. They don't have to be top tier.
The cost... I dunno. $550-$750 would be ok, maybe a little more. It's the form factor that I want, far more important to me than the price.
I think you will be getting exactly what you want. If you lay your SE on top of an iPhone 8 you will see that it basically covers the screen on the iPhone 8. So, Apple can make it roughly an iPhone 8 sized device while keeping the same form factor simply by eliminating the bezels -- basically a 1/3 or 1/2 inch top & bottom plus the edges.
Essentially, that would be an Xr (non-pro) class device that fills the hole for a small(er) device in that mid-tier product category.
I've definitely lamented moving from my broken 5 to the 6s and now Xr. Surely the tech has matured enough to make what is essentially the iPhone X in a 5 form factor at a reasonable price point--but I'd definitely buy it, regardless of price.
Comments
At least from the comments here on AI, it seems that most people liked it for its size rather than its cost. If Apple feels the same, that leaves them open to produce an SE sized phone (as measured by its external form factor) with a far bigger screen.
Very roughly, by eliminating the bezels, they could put a screen he size of an iPhone 8 in a phone the size of an SE.
That's just silly. There are plenty of phones if you want the larger form factors. But, many of us specifically want the smaller form factor.
If it is the size of the iPhone 8, then it isn't smaller. This looks more like a budget model. I wish Apple would stop confusing the two categories (ie: form factor and price).
I agree to a point (the analogy kind of fell flat because of the reality going on in that market). But, there are still plenty of makers of sedans. And, there is no reason a more intelligent company can't serve more than one generic perceived market. (ie. those automakers going to all crossover SUVs, are mostly the same automakers failing in general... or to put it more bluntly, idiots.)
I'm not sure the (smartphone) market could be stretched quite that far.... but, the thing is, Apple never did it correctly, so they have no clue.
If they had produced an SE form factor with more of the top-of-the-line model's tech, it might have outsold the larger versions, but we don't know. So, when people went to the store and looked, they may have well wanted an SE, but then decided they needed the better camera, or a bunch of other factors.
Yes, there is a valid argument to favor larger screens, in that you get more viewable and workable space, especially given people more heavily using phones/mobile. BUT, that doesn't mean there aren't a ton of people who have regular access to iPads, laptops, and desktops who would prefer a smaller device for practicality and ergonomics.
Apple basically saw the initial trend, went all in on it, and never did the homework to really understand and test it.
There is, however, a growing 'OTG' (off the grid) market Apple could tap into with such a phone, that was more phone and less (modern) smartphone with a huge emphasis on privacy (real privacy) and setup to be as 'OTG' as possible with some super-basics (ex: built-in, even hardware, VPN capability or stuff like that). Some people are actually buying older iPhone models or early (and re-released) smart-phones to have just enough communication to meet their needs and avoid the rest.
I do wish they'd separate the 'budget' and 'form-factor' thing. I think they should absolutely have a more budget friendly device (not cheap, but lower cost than the regular lineup... sans some features). But, I think it is more likely budget oriented people would want a bigger screen, as they are more likely to use the phone as their solo computing device.
Meanwhile, I'm guessing most of us who love the SE form-factor, actually don't care as much about the cost, and would rather Apple pack as much tech in there as possible. Speaking for myself, I'd pay the prices of the regular iPhone lineup models for it.
That said, personally, I'd trade the screen size (ie. keep it smaller) to keep the TouchID unless it could be under the screen. But, I'm sure I'm in the minority on that. If Apple does such a thing, it will probably be an iPhone X type device in a SE form-factor. I'd buy that, but I'd miss TouchID a lot. (And, as I've stated many times, I'd also miss the 3.5mm jack... and fear that the Lightning port wouldn't last long the way I use it.
LOL, yeah. I think that might go down as being even more daft than the 'innovate my a__' statement. If they would have just went with their desire to claim that space, we might not have agreed on priorities, but it would have been a respectable decision. But, trying to sell it as 'brave' and some kind of leap forward, and calling it a 'legacy port' just leaves them being the laughing stock among anyone with an awareness of reality.
My hunch, though, is that they didn't literally mean 'thinness' but the overall size. I don't care so much if the phone is a bit thinner or thicker, but I don't want the other dimensions to be much bigger (or really any bigger) than the SE.
You guys keep saying “But *I* like small phones!” as if that means it’s worth Apple’s trouble compared to selling bigger phones to more people. This is why Apple got out of making printers, scanners, routers, etc.
But when the subject does come up, I make my preferences known, same as like and different minds do as well. Apple doesn't really listen, or at least not always, so I don't expect them ever to do what I want, and frequently end up liking what they do with what they think I should want.
So as the subject has come up again, I'll say want the SE upgraded while keeping the current form factor. Give me a full frontal screen. I think Apple could put a good 4.5/4.6" screen on the current SE. I can live without Face ID and Force/3D Touch (though I do like the idea of 3d Touch). I'll take a notch, no problema, it would be smaller. Earphone jack? I'd prefer to keep it, but if they want to take it, I can live with that too, if need be. Let the big boys have USB-C whenever they get it. I'm happy with the Lightning port.
The customary evolution bumps in processor, graphics, RAM, and storage are good enough for me. They don't have to be top tier.
The cost... I dunno. $550-$750 would be ok, maybe a little more. It's the form factor that I want, far more important to me than the price.
Essentially, that would be an Xr (non-pro) class device that fills the hole for a small(er) device in that mid-tier product category.