[quote]So they could sell that for $1500 and make $150/computer (assuming no middle-man and no discout - employee/gov/student/education)<hr></blockquote>
You neglect the fact that Apple buys parts at a significant volume discount.
A supermarket chain here in Germany has a (VERY) special offer on computers every now and then and sells limited quantities. I almost bought the last one, but in the end I thought, **** it, I'm not having to deal with Windows.
Just check out these specs for DM2000 ($999)
1.8GHz Athlon CPU
512MB RAM
80GB HD
GeForce3 (!!!)
Windows XP
dunno the rest of the specs but it sold it 5 minutes after the shops opened.
A friend of mine got one, I'll ask him about the specs.
Now why can't Apple make a deal like this? (rhetorical question)
So amidala, we can pretty much agree that reasonably priced iMacs with 15" LCD's are possible if there is no superdrive.
BTW, the cost of bare LCD panels was reported a few months back on c|net. They said 180 for the prepped glass, manufacturers who buy them still have to add an enclosure, and input circuitry. There are LCD's of that size selling in Canada for 549 CANADIAN, so that puts the US retail at about 350-375.
If Dell can do a 999 LCD machine, so can Apple. Dell's machine isn't a screamer, but it's at least as good as the current iMacs. Apple can do it, no one is expecting a supercomputer, but a reasonably fast new model.
PS. did you go back to the AI iMac thread. I'm interested o know what you think about gigawire?
I think the goal is to get them all under 1000 at all. I think the goal is to offer a comeptitive computer at a competitive price. Apple doesn't want to become an emachines selling crap for under a 1000.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly, if the computer has the specs to back up the price then there's no problem with it over $1000 as long as it's not too much over.
Apple has been selling iMacs around those prices since they came out and they won't stop now. If they wanted to lower prices at the high end they would have before now.
Okay applenut, you've forced me to get off my butt and do some actual 'research.' And it looks like you may be right. Kinda.
According to <a href="http://www.digitalpostproduction.com/2001/01_jan/features/MoreOnAppleDVD.htm"; target="_blank">Digital Post Production.com</a>, iDVD's 2x encoding may be due more to its fixed 8Mb/s encoding rate than to AltiVec. (Apparently this was also the reason for the one-hour limit on iDVD movies. Now, with iDVD2, this has improved to 90 minutes, so Apple may have adjusted this to accomodate for faster G4s.)
Still, an older article on the Powerbook Zone discussing the release of external Superdrives said "We'd guesstimate iDVD's performance on a G3 PowerBook ...hooked up to an external version of Pioneer's DVR-103 DVD-R Superdrive would yield encoding rates between 8x and 16x."
Of course, that was when PBG3's topped out at about 600MHz, so I guess we could expect a 1GHz G3 to render at between 4x and 8x. I guess that could be considered 'decently.'
Does anybody know what Apple's profit margin is?? Earlier this year I listened to one of Apple's quarterly conference calls and heard their CFO say that their margin was something like 3%..
<strong>Okay applenut, you've forced me to get off my butt and do some actual 'research.' And it looks like you may be right. Kinda.
According to <a href="http://www.digitalpostproduction.com/2001/01_jan/features/MoreOnAppleDVD.htm"; target="_blank">Digital Post Production.com</a>, iDVD's 2x encoding may be due more to its fixed 8Mb/s encoding rate than to AltiVec. (Apparently this was also the reason for the one-hour limit on iDVD movies. Now, with iDVD2, this has improved to 90 minutes, so Apple may have adjusted this to accomodate for faster G4s.)
Still, an older article on the Powerbook Zone discussing the release of external Superdrives said "We'd guesstimate iDVD's performance on a G3 PowerBook ...hooked up to an external version of Pioneer's DVR-103 DVD-R Superdrive would yield encoding rates between 8x and 16x."
Of course, that was when PBG3's topped out at about 600MHz, so I guess we could expect a 1GHz G3 to render at between 4x and 8x. I guess that could be considered 'decently.'</strong><hr></blockquote>
they took a guess. they are likely wrong. Powerboos topped out at 500Mhz at that time as well. your quotes speeds are much slower than what you would get. I'll try to test some things out maybe and see what I get. Is MediaCleaner pro's MPEG 2 encoder altivec optimized? I don't think so.
[quote]Does anybody know what Apple's profit margin is?? Earlier this year I listened to one of Apple's quarterly conference calls and heard their CFO say that their margin was something like 3%.. <hr></blockquote>
with you're reasoning Apple should be able to make an LCD imac for 1000 as portables are more expensive to make. of course desktops have more features and everything which raises the price.
If Apple releases an LCD iMac anywhere near the price/feature ratio of the iBook, people are going to start wondering why they should get an iMac at all (which probably will be slightly faster, bigger screen, maybe more ports -- though the iMac doesn't do too badly as far as connectivity, but will not be portable). Heck, I'm already wondering this.
Apple needs to make sure to provide some incentive to keep buying iMacs. Things like a SuperDrive, a G4 or screamin' G3, a great GPU, etc. Imagine a $1200 iMac with a gForce 3, G4, and combo drive (doubt that Apple could manage a superdrive at that price...). Gamers and game developers would finally have a reason to switch to Macs.
Anyway, my point is that Apple needs to make sure that it covers different markets with it's iMac and iBook lines. Both with price as well as features.
<strong>If Apple releases an LCD iMac anywhere near the price/feature ratio of the iBook, people are going to start wondering why they should get an iMac at all (which probably will be slightly faster, bigger screen, maybe more ports -- though the iMac doesn't do too badly as far as connectivity, but will not be portable). Heck, I'm already wondering this.
Apple needs to make sure to provide some incentive to keep buying iMacs. Things like a SuperDrive, a G4 or screamin' G3, a great GPU, etc. Imagine a $1200 iMac with a gForce 3, G4, and combo drive (doubt that Apple could manage a superdrive at that price...). Gamers and game developers would finally have a reason to switch to Macs.
Anyway, my point is that Apple needs to make sure that it covers different markets with it's iMac and iBook lines. Both with price as well as features.
-Ender</strong><hr></blockquote>
You bring up a good point. Right now why would anyone buy an iMac over an iBook. For just a little more (or equal depending on model) you get most of the same features of an iMac in a portable. The new iMac really needs to have some kick-ass stuff otherwise people will just keep buying iBooks and not iMacs.
Comments
$1299
$1499
my guess for the new three models (if there are three, that is
You neglect the fact that Apple buys parts at a significant volume discount.
Just check out these specs for DM2000 ($999)
1.8GHz Athlon CPU
512MB RAM
80GB HD
GeForce3 (!!!)
Windows XP
dunno the rest of the specs but it sold it 5 minutes after the shops opened.
A friend of mine got one, I'll ask him about the specs.
Now why can't Apple make a deal like this? (rhetorical question)
BTW, the cost of bare LCD panels was reported a few months back on c|net. They said 180 for the prepped glass, manufacturers who buy them still have to add an enclosure, and input circuitry. There are LCD's of that size selling in Canada for 549 CANADIAN, so that puts the US retail at about 350-375.
If Dell can do a 999 LCD machine, so can Apple. Dell's machine isn't a screamer, but it's at least as good as the current iMacs. Apple can do it, no one is expecting a supercomputer, but a reasonably fast new model.
PS. did you go back to the AI iMac thread. I'm interested o know what you think about gigawire?
<strong>
I think the goal is to get them all under 1000 at all. I think the goal is to offer a comeptitive computer at a competitive price. Apple doesn't want to become an emachines selling crap for under a 1000.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly, if the computer has the specs to back up the price then there's no problem with it over $1000 as long as it's not too much over.
$1299
$1499
Apple has been selling iMacs around those prices since they came out and they won't stop now. If they wanted to lower prices at the high end they would have before now.
According to <a href="http://www.digitalpostproduction.com/2001/01_jan/features/MoreOnAppleDVD.htm"; target="_blank">Digital Post Production.com</a>, iDVD's 2x encoding may be due more to its fixed 8Mb/s encoding rate than to AltiVec. (Apparently this was also the reason for the one-hour limit on iDVD movies. Now, with iDVD2, this has improved to 90 minutes, so Apple may have adjusted this to accomodate for faster G4s.)
Still, an older article on the Powerbook Zone discussing the release of external Superdrives said "We'd guesstimate iDVD's performance on a G3 PowerBook ...hooked up to an external version of Pioneer's DVR-103 DVD-R Superdrive would yield encoding rates between 8x and 16x."
Of course, that was when PBG3's topped out at about 600MHz, so I guess we could expect a 1GHz G3 to render at between 4x and 8x. I guess that could be considered 'decently.'
[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
<strong>Okay applenut, you've forced me to get off my butt and do some actual 'research.' And it looks like you may be right. Kinda.
According to <a href="http://www.digitalpostproduction.com/2001/01_jan/features/MoreOnAppleDVD.htm"; target="_blank">Digital Post Production.com</a>, iDVD's 2x encoding may be due more to its fixed 8Mb/s encoding rate than to AltiVec. (Apparently this was also the reason for the one-hour limit on iDVD movies. Now, with iDVD2, this has improved to 90 minutes, so Apple may have adjusted this to accomodate for faster G4s.)
Still, an older article on the Powerbook Zone discussing the release of external Superdrives said "We'd guesstimate iDVD's performance on a G3 PowerBook ...hooked up to an external version of Pioneer's DVR-103 DVD-R Superdrive would yield encoding rates between 8x and 16x."
Of course, that was when PBG3's topped out at about 600MHz, so I guess we could expect a 1GHz G3 to render at between 4x and 8x. I guess that could be considered 'decently.'</strong><hr></blockquote>
they took a guess. they are likely wrong. Powerboos topped out at 500Mhz at that time as well. your quotes speeds are much slower than what you would get. I'll try to test some things out maybe and see what I get. Is MediaCleaner pro's MPEG 2 encoder altivec optimized? I don't think so.
[quote]Does anybody know what Apple's profit margin is?? Earlier this year I listened to one of Apple's quarterly conference calls and heard their CFO say that their margin was something like 3%.. <hr></blockquote>
add a zero. it's near 30%
[quote] posted 12-02-2001 11:30 AM Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Â*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Apple can sell iBooks for $1,299, then they should have no problem putting together an LCD iMac for less than $1,999.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<hr></blockquote>
with you're reasoning Apple should be able to make an LCD imac for 1000 as portables are more expensive to make. of course desktops have more features and everything which raises the price.
Apple needs to make sure to provide some incentive to keep buying iMacs. Things like a SuperDrive, a G4 or screamin' G3, a great GPU, etc. Imagine a $1200 iMac with a gForce 3, G4, and combo drive (doubt that Apple could manage a superdrive at that price...). Gamers and game developers would finally have a reason to switch to Macs.
Anyway, my point is that Apple needs to make sure that it covers different markets with it's iMac and iBook lines. Both with price as well as features.
-Ender
<strong>If Apple releases an LCD iMac anywhere near the price/feature ratio of the iBook, people are going to start wondering why they should get an iMac at all (which probably will be slightly faster, bigger screen, maybe more ports -- though the iMac doesn't do too badly as far as connectivity, but will not be portable). Heck, I'm already wondering this.
Apple needs to make sure to provide some incentive to keep buying iMacs. Things like a SuperDrive, a G4 or screamin' G3, a great GPU, etc. Imagine a $1200 iMac with a gForce 3, G4, and combo drive (doubt that Apple could manage a superdrive at that price...). Gamers and game developers would finally have a reason to switch to Macs.
Anyway, my point is that Apple needs to make sure that it covers different markets with it's iMac and iBook lines. Both with price as well as features.
-Ender</strong><hr></blockquote>
You bring up a good point. Right now why would anyone buy an iMac over an iBook. For just a little more (or equal depending on model) you get most of the same features of an iMac in a portable. The new iMac really needs to have some kick-ass stuff otherwise people will just keep buying iBooks and not iMacs.