Some of this reminds me of what it must have been like as motor cars replaced horses. Lots of worries, new laws and regulations that seem absurd to us now. Think these things will work out as we acclimate ourselves to the Information Age paradigm shift. Try not to get your panties in a twist.
If I were an Apple Exec, I'd have no problem with this demand at all. Screw Germany. If they don't understand free enterprise, it's time they learned it. I live in Florida, we see lot's of German tourists. I know no Floridian who appreciates a German tourist for a customer. They don't tip, and they aren't polite. They show no respect for their host's. Their government has a history of totalitarianism and is now more socialist than anything else. Whatever you have done needs to belong to everyone else as well. Well, guess what? The world is a big place, and doesn't need Germany, or their legal opinion.
I have a question about this. So if Apple is forced to legally allow other companies access to the NFC chip, do they also have to let them access Face ID/Touch ID? Or could they say “sure, you can use another payment method, but we won’t allow you to use biometric ID. You’ll have to use a code or some other form of authentication”? Would doing something like that still put them in compliance with he law?
I doubt it was Apple somehow getting a message through to the CDU at the last minute (that's a fairytale level of influence) - it's much more likely that passing such a law would be jumping the gun on the EU's own investigation, weakening the investigation and potentially rendering harm to Apple's service, and introducing uncertainty to the electronic banking sector via reckless legislation.
Apple have good reason why Core NFC doesn't do financial apps - sure one can immediately claim it is about keeping the industry to themselves, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out how having access to payment-related NFC functionality can be exploited.
I have a question about this. So if Apple is forced to legally allow other companies access to the NFC chip, do they also have to let them access Face ID/Touch ID? Or could they say “sure, you can use another payment method, but we won’t allow you to use biometric ID. You’ll have to use a code or some other form of authentication”? Would doing something like that still put them in compliance with he law?
This has nothing to do with Face ID/Touch ID. What the said law demands is to support other payment systems too alongside Apple Pay. Imagine supporting PayPal as an alternative to Apple Pay: users may choose PayPal and use the NFC to pay by their PayPal account.
The downside of that law is that competitors in US and other countries may not last to sue Apple on anti-trust grounds. Actually PayPal is one of the funding sources for Apple Pay but that might be the other way as well.
I don’t see why the actual scheme would not work with German (or any other) payment systems once the fee, commission and chargeback issues are resolved. Apple Pay provides the most secure authentication no other competitor would surpass, as proven by the failure of face identification on Android phones.
Oh no, triggered, outraged that other countries dare have laws which do not fully embrace Apple, because snowflake Apple although the richest company in the world might disappear if anyone ask anything of it, beleaguered days will soon be upon us again.
Does this mean for a reasonable fee Apple can turn NFC hardware in existing IPhones into a terminal to collect payments?
surely this applies to the payment side hardware providers as well and they can’t block new entrants into any part of market. Card providers, banks, POS everyone not just user devices.
Still, I'm becoming increasingly frustrated by what I see as an egregious anti-American bias by various governments in the EU nowadays.
People who claim that Apple somehow has a "monopoly" are using specious logic. Apple competes with numerous other platforms, each of which contains an ecosystem combining hardware and software. Apple no more has a monopoly on its own software than Ford has a monopoly on the software running in its cars.
This isn't anti-American bias. It's a socialist take on capitalism. They do it to everyone, not just American companies.
The current administration in Washington has done nothing, but alienate countries and people that were our allies once upon a time. As long as they continue to treat our "allies" as we currently do, they will stab us every time they get the chance to. Hardly surprising. Expect it to continue until there is real change in Washington and our policies. Bullies always lose, but we American citizens pay the price for their behavior. Going after highly successful companies like Apple is just one reflection of the price we are paying for our government treating people and countries like garbage. What did he call some of them? Sh**holes?
They world is a dramatically less safe place in all respects since November 2016 and American businesses are hardly exempt from it. In fact, they are the chief recipient of the consequences. It's much easier to go after a business than a government.
I have a question about this. So if Apple is forced to legally allow other companies access to the NFC chip, do they also have to let them access Face ID/Touch ID? Or could they say “sure, you can use another payment method, but we won’t allow you to use biometric ID. You’ll have to use a code or some other form of authentication”? Would doing something like that still put them in compliance with he law?
Developers already have access to the LocalAuthentication Framework which uses whatever authentication the user has set up, including Face ID and Touch ID.
If you’re speaking of the authentication data stored in the Secure Enclave, then no, not even the OS can “read” that data. It can only be written to, and then run a pass or fail check to for authentication.
I don't get it. You can already have other payment services in your iPhone wallet (at least in the U.S. you can). Several of my credit cards are there as is my ATM card. The only time I use a physical card are in the places where they don't have touchless payments set up yet. Home Depot, for example, doesn't take Apple Pay (or any other such service).
By the way, my Apple Credit Card seems to have been hacked. One fraudulent charge showed up on my bill from a local retailer who I've never once visited or bought anything from. I don't quite get how this could have happened. They took the charge off pending investigation.
Clearly, you gave the Apple Card number to some business or person and they or another person used that number for a transaction.
All you need do is use the Apple Wallet to generate a new credit card number for your Apple Card.
I’ve lived in Germany now for the past year and I’ve enjoyed it very much. My only complaint this far is that Germans don’t seem to use credit/debit cards for most things based upon their history. Cash is still king, larger stores may take cards but there has been many times where I walk into stores and they don’t take card nor NFC. NFC as a payment method seems to be lagging behind other European countries, not sure if this due to banks slowing down progress but from articles I’ve read this far that seems to be it.
I have a question about this. So if Apple is forced to legally allow other companies access to the NFC chip, do they also have to let them access Face ID/Touch ID? Or could they say “sure, you can use another payment method, but we won’t allow you to use biometric ID. You’ll have to use a code or some other form of authentication”? Would doing something like that still put them in compliance with he law?
This has nothing to do with Face ID/Touch ID. What the said law demands is to support other payment systems too alongside Apple Pay. Imagine supporting PayPal as an alternative to Apple Pay: users may choose PayPal and use the NFC to pay by their PayPal account.
The downside of that law is that competitors in US and other countries may not last to sue Apple on anti-trust grounds. Actually PayPal is one of the funding sources for Apple Pay but that might be the other way as well.
I don’t see why the actual scheme would not work with German (or any other) payment systems once the fee, commission and chargeback issues are resolved. Apple Pay provides the most secure authentication no other competitor would surpass, as proven by the failure of face identification on Android phones.
Well the reason I ask about Face ID/Touch ID is because of that is not mandated, only access to NFC is then Apple can still tout Apple Pay as the best option on iPhone by allowing it to be the only one that authenticates biometrically, hence making it the most secure and easiest to use.
The Chancellor's move had raised concerns from Germany's Social Democratic Party.
"It's quite unusual for the Chancellor's office to try and stop
something in the last minute," said Jens Zimmermann, a senior lawmaker
from the Social Democrats (SPD), junior coalition partners to Merkel's
conservatives.
"It would be astonishing if they let themselves be reined back by an
American company," he added. "We want fair competition between payment
providers."
If you would be Apple Pay user as they highly probable are, then you would push as well as you do not want to AP be compromised in any way.
Whether they will be pushed to open it up hope they will be able to set up conditions that will require to offer same level of privacy as Apple Pay, effectively stops other from trying.
But it could create some ways for hackers to compromise technology I am afraid but have no knowledge to claim that.
Oh no, triggered, outraged that other countries dare have laws which do not fully embrace Apple, because snowflake Apple although the richest company in the world might disappear if anyone ask anything of it, beleaguered days will soon be upon us again.
You do sound triggered. Perhaps you should stay away from articles about economic and political issues. The debate might be upsetting to you.
My take on the article was that Apple is concerned about how quickly this legislation was drafted and implemented and that it would take effect in just a few months. Is that the prudent way to make policy?
Let's get real - I would venture to guess that this is not about being concerned how quickly the legislation was crafted. This is about trying to maintain as much of a competitive advantage as possible. Which is a company's job, just as it is a governments job (or rather should be) to implement the will of the majority of the population.
I would find it unfair requiring Apple to give access to Apple pay but this is about access to the NFC chip. I don't think that other providers can come up with something comparable.
Does Germany's new law mean that Android devices must support ApplePay? Historically if the consumer wanted to use a particular ecosystem, then he/she would buy a product from that ecosystem. Now Germans can just buy whatever they want. Whoppers from McDonalds. It's a brave new world!
"I for one, am waiting for the U.S. to completely tire of the machinations of the CCP, with the ultimately result that the U.S. disengage from China."
How much do you think China already owns in the USA ? If the Chinese suddenly said "goodbye USA, we will remove all our investments from your country" the USA would become bankrupt overnight and the whole infrastructure would collapse.
To those who criticize this, just a piece of information : the Parisian Transit Authority (RATP), in charge of tube stations, has been unable to reach an agreement with Apple concerning contactless payments. As a result, only Androïd devices (in addition to local credit cards, which are for most of them contactless capable), can be used as a contactless device to pay Parisian tube fees ....
"I for one, am waiting for the U.S. to completely tire of the machinations of the CCP, with the ultimately result that the U.S. disengage from China."
How much do you think China already owns in the USA ? If the Chinese suddenly said "goodbye USA, we will remove all our investments from your country" the USA would become bankrupt overnight and the whole infrastructure would collapse.
Your statement is wildly inaccurate, to say the least.
It's politically popular to say that the Chinese "own the United States" because they are such a huge creditor. The reality is very different than the rhetoric.
While around 5% of the national debt isn't exactly insignificant, the Treasury Department has had no problems finding buyers for its products even after a rating downgrade. If the Chinese suddenly decided to call in all of the federal government's obligations (which isn't possible, given the maturities of debt securities), it is very likely that others would step in to service the market. This includes the Federal Reserve, which already owns more than three times as much debt as China.
Second, the Chinese rely on American markets to buy Chinese-produced goods. Artificially suppressing the yuan has made it difficult for a growing Chinese middle class, so exports are needed to keep businesses running.
Consider what the current arrangement means: The Chinese buy up dollar bills in the form of Treasuries. This helps inflate the value of the dollar. In return, American consumers get cheap Chinese products and incoming investment capital. The average American is made better off by foreigners providing cheap services and only demanding pieces of paper in return."
Japan owns almost as much U.S. debt as China, and yet most Americans aren't concerned about that simply because, unlike China, Japan is a Western style democracy.
More to the point, China, today, is starved for U.S. dollars that they need to trade with, and with China in a state of reduced growth, their economy which is built on exports, will stall, and it will be very much worse for the Chinese if the trade negotiations fail.
I don't get it. You can already have other payment services in your iPhone wallet (at least in the U.S. you can). Several of my credit cards are there as is my ATM card. The only time I use a physical card are in the places where they don't have touchless payments set up yet. Home Depot, for example, doesn't take Apple Pay (or any other such service).
By the way, my Apple Credit Card seems to have been hacked. One fraudulent charge showed up on my bill from a local retailer who I've never once visited or bought anything from. I don't quite get how this could have happened. They took the charge off pending investigation.
Clearly, you gave the Apple Card number to some business or person and they or another person used that number for a transaction.
All you need do is use the Apple Wallet to generate a new credit card number for your Apple Card.
This is why it’s either Apple Pay or cash only when I deal with retailers these days. No credit cards except at sluggish and hopelessly behind the times Costco.
Comments
Apple have good reason why Core NFC doesn't do financial apps - sure one can immediately claim it is about keeping the industry to themselves, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out how having access to payment-related NFC functionality can be exploited.
The downside of that law is that competitors in US and other countries may not last to sue Apple on anti-trust grounds. Actually PayPal is one of the funding sources for Apple Pay but that might be the other way as well.
I don’t see why the actual scheme would not work with German (or any other) payment systems once the fee, commission and chargeback issues are resolved. Apple Pay provides the most secure authentication no other competitor would surpass, as proven by the failure of face identification on Android phones.
Developers already have access to the LocalAuthentication Framework which uses whatever authentication the user has set up, including Face ID and Touch ID.
If you’re speaking of the authentication data stored in the Secure Enclave, then no, not even the OS can “read” that data. It can only be written to, and then run a pass or fail check to for authentication.
All you need do is use the Apple Wallet to generate a new credit card number for your Apple Card.
How much do you think China already owns in the USA ?
If the Chinese suddenly said "goodbye USA, we will remove all our investments from your country" the USA would become bankrupt overnight and the whole infrastructure would collapse.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080615/china-owns-us-debt-how-much.asp
that link was updated June 25, 2019
"Consequences of Owing Debt to the Chinese
It's politically popular to say that the Chinese "own the United States" because they are such a huge creditor. The reality is very different than the rhetoric.
While around 5% of the national debt isn't exactly insignificant, the Treasury Department has had no problems finding buyers for its products even after a rating downgrade. If the Chinese suddenly decided to call in all of the federal government's obligations (which isn't possible, given the maturities of debt securities), it is very likely that others would step in to service the market. This includes the Federal Reserve, which already owns more than three times as much debt as China.
Second, the Chinese rely on American markets to buy Chinese-produced goods. Artificially suppressing the yuan has made it difficult for a growing Chinese middle class, so exports are needed to keep businesses running.
Consider what the current arrangement means: The Chinese buy up dollar bills in the form of Treasuries. This helps inflate the value of the dollar. In return, American consumers get cheap Chinese products and incoming investment capital. The average American is made better off by foreigners providing cheap services and only demanding pieces of paper in return."
Japan owns almost as much U.S. debt as China, and yet most Americans aren't concerned about that simply because, unlike China, Japan is a Western style democracy.
More to the point, China, today, is starved for U.S. dollars that they need to trade with, and with China in a state of reduced growth, their economy which is built on exports, will stall, and it will be very much worse for the Chinese if the trade negotiations fail.