Still, I'm becoming increasingly frustrated by what I see as an egregious anti-American bias by various governments in the EU nowadays.
People who claim that Apple somehow has a "monopoly" are using specious logic. Apple competes with numerous other platforms, each of which contains an ecosystem combining hardware and software. Apple no more has a monopoly on its own software than Ford has a monopoly on the software running in its cars.
I'm sure having the US president go over there and call them all a bunch of deadbeats really helped.
I don't get it. You can already have other payment services in your iPhone wallet (at least in the U.S. you can). Several of my credit cards are there as is my ATM card. The only time I use a physical card are in the places where they don't have touchless payments set up yet. Home Depot, for example, doesn't take Apple Pay (or any other such service).
By the way, my Apple Credit Card seems to have been hacked. One fraudulent charge showed up on my bill from a local retailer who I've never once visited or bought anything from. I don't quite get how this could have happened. They took the charge off pending investigation.
Ever seen WeChat Pay? They have 900 million monthly active users. They're second to Ali Pay, which has a larger world market user base. That one waaaaaaaaay back there with less than 5% of the world contact-less pay market, Apple Pay.
By the way, my Apple Credit Card seems to have been hacked. One fraudulent charge showed up on my bill from a local retailer who I've never once visited or bought anything from. I don't quite get how this could have happened. They took the charge off pending investigation.
Very interesting. Have you reported this to Apple? I'd be interested to know the outcome of this situation.
Yep. This is just Germany using protectionism for their own weak competitors.
I suspect if he even hinted he might there would be an outcry from sensible Germans against this stupid politician's limelight seeking attack on Apple.
Apple could always drop Apple Pay support for the EU countries I suppose.
I’d go further and suggest they pull totally out of Germany and any other EU country trying to control Apple. Germany isn’t helping develop any Apple product so why should they be able to dictate how Apple secures it’s product. Might as well give them a back door into iOS while they’re at it.
There are few points here.
Germany sets the frameworks on which German banking regulations sit (in line with EU regulations). Everybody (Apple included) has to abide by those regulations. This is logical.
Germany also sets the competition frameworks (again, in line with EU regulations) and Apple (along with everybody else) is subject to those too.
Within Apple (as a company) some significant technology is from Germany.
Obviously, before drawing absolute conclusions on this, it is necessary to hear both sides of the issue but we can be sure that if Apple's reluctance to open up some technology was based on practices deemed to hinder competition, then they would run afoul of not only German regulations (be they current or future) but almost certainly those of the EU too.
In that situation, and has been mentioned already, not offering Apple Pay in Germany (and possibly the entire EU) is definitely an option.
The international payment/money transfer market is not quite as seen from the US. A lot of institutions mostly backed by powerful banks develop local payment methods and those just work. There are a multitude of local "paypals" in almost every country in Europe, Middle East and Asia. The international penetration of Apple Pay just depends on Apple's negotiation power against local banks.
Sorry for spoiling the dreams of who imagine Apple as a "services company".
"Issing, the former ECB economist, accounts for this demand by making reference to an oft-repeated German maxim: “Cash is printed freedom”—offering the ability to transact with autonomy and anonymity in a country with good historical reasons to value both. Under the Nazis, he points out, the use of foreign currency was heavily restricted."
Lol. People who suggest Apple to pull out of Germany because it’s just a rounding error.
Are you the same people who suggested Apple pull out of China. And before that out of India.
By your business senses - Apple shouldn’t do business with any other countries except US, and maybe Canada and Australia. LoL.
You sound like a bunch of kids throwing a tantrum.
Germans love cash and use it far more than most advanced countries.
Not exactly. EU (or at least SEPA countries) have a very effective bank transfer framework that makes the practicality of credit card redundant in online payments. And sellers always prefer online cash against credit card with all of its commission, yearly quota, currency rate and chargeback mess.
And given that the majority of shopping is online and retailers, even Apple stores redirect their customers to their online stores, the practicality of Apple Pay in street shopping is not a big deal, unless Apple issues local credit cards, since not every online seller can be integrated with Apple Pay and Apple Pay has no such claim other than redirecting the seller to their payment provider.
StrangeDays said: Of course. Regulation is whatever a society decides it is. But we’re discussing whether it’s logical and fair, as is the argument made.
Ideally, logical and fair would be the best approach. But it works both ways. Is it logical and fair that a credit card issuer can change your interest rates at any time for any reason? No, but it's legally allowed. The entire private equity industry probably wouldn't exist if the rules of business were organized around the principle of logical and fair. So it's not that surprising that there may be some laws that could be considered less than logical or fair being applied to a business too, rather than just to consumers or the market at large.
I don’t have a problem opening up NFC (In general) but there are security concerns that need to be addressed before doing so.
I do have a problem with the way the government got it approved. Slapping it on to another piece of legislation is incredibly irresponsible. Something like this requires a lot more consideration, and discussions with all parties involved. This is where you bring in the experts not politicians.
They skipped parts 1-9 and went straight to 10... Can we legislate this? Yes Should we? Maybe not
This smells of someone’s “special” interest (see bribe) and not responsible decision making.
As I see it the only ones who will benefit are the middlemen and banks, not consumers. It’s all about the fees collected for each transaction. The potential exists for every German bank to establish its own wallet app and NFC payment system. If this happens Apple should at the very least receive compensation from each “competing” payment system for being the medium through which the NFC payment is accomplished, similar to the fee developers pay Apple for hosting their app.
I think other EU countries will follow very quickly
The new law is fully in line with the PSD2 directive of the EU that came into force in September. The PSD2 directive forces banks to open their infrastructure using the open banking protocol, allowing third party payment providers to offer a payment service to the consumers. It would be extremely inconsistent that banks were forced to open their infrastructure to third parties while the NFC on the payment terminal like an iPhone is not.
The reaction of Apple is very similar to the reaction of the banks a few years ago when PSD2 was announced: they had concerns about security, data protection, .... The reality is that this is not the case. An open infrastructure can be as secure as a closed proprietary one
The story of the little red hen is always instructive in cases like this. the modernised version Ronald Reagan used even closer:
Once upon a time there was a little red hen who scratched about the barnyard until she uncovered some grains of wheat. She called her neighbors and said ‘If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?’
“Not I, ” said the cow.
“Not I,” said the duck.
“Not I,” said the pig.
“Not I,” said the goose.
“Then I will,” said the little red hen. And she did. The wheat grew tall and ripened into golden grain. “Who will help me reap my wheat?” asked the little red hen.
“Not I,” said the duck.
“Out of my classification,” said the pig.
“I’d lose my seniority,” said the cow.
“I’d lose my unemployment compensation,” said the goose.
“Then I will,” said the little red hen, and she did.
At last the time came to bake the bread. “Who will help me bake bread?” asked the little red hen.
“That would be overtime for me,” said the cow.
“I’d lose my welfare benefits,” said the duck.
“I’m a dropout and never learned how,” said the pig.
“If I’m to be the only helper, that’s discrimination,” said the goose.
“Then I will,” said the little red hen.
She baked five loaves and held them up for the neighbors to see.
They all wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, “No, I can eat the five loaves myself.”
“Excess profits,” cried the cow.
“Capitalist leech,” screamed the duck.
“I demand equal rights,” yelled the goose.
And the pig just grunted.
And they painted “unfair” picket signs and marched round and around the little red hen shouting obscenities.
When the government agent came, he said to the little red hen, “You must not be greedy.”
“But I earned the bread,” said the little red hen.
“Exactly,” said the agent. “That’s the wonderful free enterprise system. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations productive workers must divide their products with the idle.”
And they lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, “I am grateful, I am grateful.” But her neighbors wondered why she never again baked any more bread
Comments
I'm sure having the US president go over there and call them all a bunch of deadbeats really helped.
By the way, my Apple Credit Card seems to have been hacked. One fraudulent charge showed up on my bill from a local retailer who I've never once visited or bought anything from. I don't quite get how this could have happened. They took the charge off pending investigation.
Very interesting. Have you reported this to Apple? I'd be interested to know the outcome of this situation.
You sound like a bunch of kids throwing a tantrum.
Germany sets the frameworks on which German banking regulations sit (in line with EU regulations). Everybody (Apple included) has to abide by those regulations. This is logical.
Germany also sets the competition frameworks (again, in line with EU regulations) and Apple (along with everybody else) is subject to those too.
Within Apple (as a company) some significant technology is from Germany.
Obviously, before drawing absolute conclusions on this, it is necessary to hear both sides of the issue but we can be sure that if Apple's reluctance to open up some technology was based on practices deemed to hinder competition, then they would run afoul of not only German regulations (be they current or future) but almost certainly those of the EU too.
In that situation, and has been mentioned already, not offering Apple Pay in Germany (and possibly the entire EU) is definitely an option.
Sorry for spoiling the dreams of who imagine Apple as a "services company".
Germany Is Still Obsessed With Cash
The national disdain for plastic has become a proxy for profound concerns about trust, privacy and the role of the state.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-06/germany-is-still-obsessed-with-cash
"Issing, the former ECB economist, accounts for this demand by making reference to an oft-repeated German maxim: “Cash is printed freedom”—offering the ability to transact with autonomy and anonymity in a country with good historical reasons to value both. Under the Nazis, he points out, the use of foreign currency was heavily restricted."
And given that the majority of shopping is online and retailers, even Apple stores redirect their customers to their online stores, the practicality of Apple Pay in street shopping is not a big deal, unless Apple issues local credit cards, since not every online seller can be integrated with Apple Pay and Apple Pay has no such claim other than redirecting the seller to their payment provider.
I do have a problem with the way the government got it approved. Slapping it on to another piece of legislation is incredibly irresponsible. Something like this requires a lot more consideration, and discussions with all parties involved. This is where you bring in the experts not politicians.
Can we legislate this? Yes
Should we? Maybe not
This smells of someone’s “special” interest (see bribe) and not responsible decision making.
the modernised version Ronald Reagan used even closer:
Once upon a time there was a little red hen who scratched about the barnyard until she uncovered some grains of wheat. She called her neighbors and said ‘If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?’
“Not I, ” said the cow.
“Not I,” said the duck.
“Not I,” said the pig.
“Not I,” said the goose.
“Then I will,” said the little red hen. And she did. The wheat grew tall and ripened into golden grain. “Who will help me reap my wheat?” asked the little red hen.
“Not I,” said the duck.
“Out of my classification,” said the pig.
“I’d lose my seniority,” said the cow.
“I’d lose my unemployment compensation,” said the goose.
“Then I will,” said the little red hen, and she did.
At last the time came to bake the bread. “Who will help me bake bread?” asked the little red hen.
“That would be overtime for me,” said the cow.
“I’d lose my welfare benefits,” said the duck.
“I’m a dropout and never learned how,” said the pig.
“If I’m to be the only helper, that’s discrimination,” said the goose.
“Then I will,” said the little red hen.
She baked five loaves and held them up for the neighbors to see.
They all wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, “No, I can eat the five loaves myself.”
“Excess profits,” cried the cow.
“Capitalist leech,” screamed the duck.
“I demand equal rights,” yelled the goose.
And the pig just grunted.
And they painted “unfair” picket signs and marched round and around the little red hen shouting obscenities.
When the government agent came, he said to the little red hen, “You must not be greedy.”
“But I earned the bread,” said the little red hen.
“Exactly,” said the agent. “That’s the wonderful free enterprise system. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations productive workers must divide their products with the idle.”
And they lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, “I am grateful, I am grateful.” But her neighbors wondered why she never again baked any more bread