I assume you are meaning the PowerPC 850? for the PowerBook. Your points are valid, in so much that a PowerBook would indeed be able to accomodate the 970 - but only at its lower rated clock speeds.
The 970 @ 1.2GHz - which would make it a FAR superior machine to a 1GHz G4, consumes just 19W. The G4 is rated @ 30W.
So my guess, is that the 970 PowerMacs WILL be announced @ MWNY - if not earlier (JULY).
Which brings us to September, when the PowerBooks will be due for a speed bump from 1GHz.
My guess is they may indeed be able to accomodate the 970 @ 1.8GHz (max) even though its rated at 42W - some tweaking can be done to the OS to keep it acceptable from a heat/power dissipation perspective, and this is at worse case, before IBM would be able to tool the plant for the 90nm process. But really, 970 @ 1-1.4+ will not be a problem for the PowerBook. Of course, a new MB will be required and be ready in time.
Also, the 850 is not 64bit, and I doubt Apple would not try to get as much leverage out of its 64bit marketing of 10.3 into its PRO line of laptops as well.
The 850 is ideal for the iBook range - no doubt, even better than the G4, at least as fast and much lower power.
In fact, I was surprised not to see an Al 15" - but think about it. The 15's are just as good as the new Als, so why take spotlight away from the Als for now. At the next refresh, we will see all the powerbooks as Al's?
So whilst the PowerMacs will desperately appreciate the 970's in JULY, its STILL the year of the Laptop, come September this will be reinforced.
People buy ibooks cause they are cheap. PowerBook users are different and might hold off if they saw/used a 970 in a desktop. I for one am tired of using the same old g4 for 2 years and seeing barely any reason to upgrade for a few hundred MHz.
So then you agree. G3s still sell. G4s will still sell, and expect Apple to continue using them in machines even after the 970 is introduced. When the G4 was released, you may have thought "no one will buy a G3 now that we have the G4 with altivec and dual configs", yet G3s continued to exist in the product line for quite a while and still exist in iBooks. Expect the same during the transition to the 970. Just because PowerBook users may hold off doesn't mean they won't see another six months to a year longer of G4s in the portable line.
I can imagine Apple wants to rid themselves of Moto as soon as possible, and high production of 970s might help, but you aren't going to see an immediate hurry to get the 970 into PowerBooks. It would be great to put 970s into PowerMacs, PowerBooks, Xserves, iMacs, and eMacs in one fell swoop as some here think should happen. It won't.
I don't agree with this "970 in an iMac" prospect. At least not in the coming year. When the 970 gets put into the Powermac, the Powermac will be ahead of most of the industry's desktops, let alone the rest of the Macs. It took more than two years for the G4 to get itself seated in the iMac, and the case will be the same with the 970. Heck the iBook hasn't even moved to G4 yet!
I can imagine Apple wants to rid themselves of Moto as soon as possible, and high production of 970s might help, but you aren't going to see an immediate hurry to get the 970 into PowerBooks. It would be great to put 970s into PowerMacs, PowerBooks, Xserves, iMacs, and eMacs in one fell swoop as some here think should happen. It won't.
The current G4's remain important to the Consumer Desktops. The 850's are not due until later this year, so its unlikely we will see these chips in iBooks and iMacs/eMacs until MWSF at the earliest.
The interesting point is that these chips could well be marketed as G4's, and give iBook fans continual performance growth. It also would not surprise me if Apple at some point would provide for a single High End 970 iMac (@ approx. 1.8GHz).
Until this happens G3's & G4's will remain within their existing lineups, the introduction of 850's would spell th end of Apple CPU purchases from Moto.
I don't agree with this "970 in an iMac" prospect. At least not in the coming year. When the 970 gets put into the Powermac, the Powermac will be ahead of most of the industry's desktops, let alone the rest of the Macs. It took more than two years for the G4 to get itself seated in the iMac, and the case will be the same with the 970. Heck the iBook hasn't even moved to G4 yet!
Exactly. Yet some people are wishing for the iMac to get the 970 soon.
Quote:
...G3's & G4's will remain within their existing lineups, the introduction of 850's would spell th end of Apple CPU purchases from Moto.
I agree, and I hope this plays out. I'm eager to get rid of the plague of Motorola.
-first, IMHO we're still some good months away before the 15"alu ships. Lazpilla is just reaching customers, and If the new 15 alu appeared now it would cannibalize 17" sales for sure.
Why? If somebody wants a 17" laptop they aren't going to buy a 15" one. I don't see canabilization happening here.
Quote:
-building a new 15 in alu case (therefore not a simple revision but a whole model change) and NOT upgrading the cpu it's something apple has NEVER done. Then if a cpu upgrade is on the planning, so lapzilla WILL. Lapzila has just been introduced (MWSF), then we can't expect a change till next 7 months (following apple powerbooks trend)
There's a first time for everything. Going to exactly the 17" model's specs except with a 15" display would still be a noticable upgrade.
Quote:
-current gigaTi is not that different from Lapzilla, or Lapzilla is not THAT revolutionary, but more an evolution of the 15" with a bigger screen. I'm sure there's already a Lapzilla mobo in a lab, ready to house a 970. (and take REAL advantge of the higher bus and ram speed, as well as fire800)
There may be lab prototypes but I don't think the 970 is ready for laptop use yet. We'll probably see 7457s in the laptops first.
Quote:
-IBM 970 is not longer a promise or vapourware but a reality (and sooner than we expected me thinks).
Not yet it isn't. The initial production run will probably be taken up with IBM's needs and the PowerMac.
Quote:
-By MWNY we may see the 970 into desktops, AND a lower speed version into the Lapzilla rev B, as well as into the NEW 15,4" Alubook.
-12" minibook can stay G4 to differentiate from the better powerbooks, and it will take place of the *entry-line* ibook macs, therefore making g3 ibooks dissapear as too many iLife apps already need a g4.
You can dream. I don't think we'll see consumer and portable 970s until the 0.09 micron version arrives.
Exactly. Yet some people are wishing for the iMac to get the 970 soon.
The 970 will go into the iMac way faster than the G4 entered the line. My bet is that we'll first see speed-bumped iMacs when the 970 is introduced in the PowerMac line, and that we'll see the 970 in the iMac in the first half next year, maybe as early as MWSF.
IMHO those are the reasons the 15" Ti is STILL between us:
1) right now it's the ONLY powerbook that can still BOOT INTO 9 (think Quark users and musicians/studios, who won't see apps/plugins fully ported to OSx -and BUGFREE!- until end of 2003)
2) there's still plenty of stock of Tis get rid of (guessing)
3) an upgrade to the Ti would mean faster cpu, wich would piss off lazpilla customers.
iTherefore I believe the NEW 15,4" Alu will be introduced along with a lazpzilla revision. that set us MWNY/September.
so with 970s already introduced into desktops by then (again a guess), WHICH ONE OF US, TI OWNERS, are going to upgrade our Ti's just for a few mghz, if new powerbooks are introduced with just say a 1,2 ghz OOOOOOOLD G4?
No such powerbooks will be bought.
WE ALL WILL WAIT for the next 15"/17" alubooks to have some kinda 970 inside. Me at least.
And this is THE YEAR OF THE LAPTOP. Jobs dixit.
Mine is strictly a Marketing case study/viewpoint . That's why i predict the next alu 15" will/should have 970 inside.
IMHO those are the reasons the 15" Ti is STILL between us:
1) right now it's the ONLY powerbook that can still BOOT INTO 9 (think Quark users and musicians/studios, who won't see apps/plugins fully ported to OSx -and BUGFREE!- until end of 2003)
2) there's still plenty of stock of Tis get rid of (guessing)
3) an upgrade to the Ti would mean faster cpu, wich would piss off lazpilla customers.
iTherefore I believe the NEW 15,4" Alu will be introduced along with a lazpzilla revision. that set us MWNY/September.
so with 970s already introduced into desktops by then (again a guess), WHICH ONE OF US, TI OWNERS, are going to upgrade our Ti's just for a few mghz, if new powerbooks are introduced with just say a 1,2 ghz OOOOOOOLD G4?
No such powerbooks will be bought.
WE ALL WILL WAIT for the next 15"/17" alubooks to have some kinda 970 inside. Me at least.
And this is THE YEAR OF THE LAPTOP. Jobs dixit.
Mine is strictly a Marketing case study/viewpoint . That's why i predict the next alu 15" will/should have 970 inside.
Yes!
You understand!
With a 1.2Ghz 970 using 10watts less than a 1Ghz G4 and BEING OVER TWICE AS FAST who would pay $3000 knowing it IS coming? Few.
People seem stuck on 2 points:
1) Apple chooses to hold speed back
2) Apple will start designing m/boards when the 970 ships
Both points are silly.
If Apple could release the fastest desktop and laptop on the market tomorrow do you really all think they'd say "ooh no we'll wait 10 months for the 7457, Moto always deliver on time and scale so well".
I think they have a few systems ready to go, and just need the CPU.
With a 1.2Ghz 970 using 10watts less than a 1Ghz G4 and BEING OVER TWICE AS FAST who would pay $3000 knowing it IS coming? Few.
People seem stuck on 2 points:
1) Apple chooses to hold speed back
2) Apple will start designing m/boards when the 970 ships
Both points are silly.
If Apple could release the fastest desktop and laptop on the market tomorrow do you really all think they'd say "ooh no we'll wait 10 months for the 7457, Moto always deliver on time and scale so well".
I think they have a few systems ready to go, and just need the CPU.
Your right, the only factors affecting their decision to release this will be availability of cpu's and motherboard design. Here's hoping IBM's yields are great, because demand will be significant. Oh wait, that brings up supply and demand, nevermind.
Remember people, there is a certaing "thing" called the G4, it's clocks at 1Ghz, it's associated with the number "7457", and it consumes less than 10W. Check mot's page. When the 970 is out (or somewhat later), the 1,2 Ghz one is consuming 50% more power per clock, than the 1Ghz G4, and that's plenty a reason to stick with the G4 if power is a real problem. But the 970 is 25% speedier per watt (provided it's two times the G4 per clock).
I'm not saying that Apple will use the G4, I'm saying that the 970 is not always the best choice... and that the 1Ghz G4 will not consume 30W forever
Remember people, there is a certaing "thing" called the G4, it's clocks at 1Ghz, it's associated with the number "7457", and it consumes less than 10W. Check mot's page. When the 970 is out (or somewhat later), the 1,2 Ghz one is consuming 50% more power per clock, than the 1Ghz G4, and that's plenty a reason to stick with the G4 if power is a real problem. But the 970 is 25% speedier per watt (provided it's two times the G4 per clock).
I'm not saying that Apple will use the G4, I'm saying that the 970 is not always the best choice... and that the 1Ghz G4 will not consume 30W forever
Moto promise much and deliver little and very late. Remember how mind bendingly great Apollo was meant to be? The 7470, the 7500, the 8500?
IBM have a habit of delivering early and better than expected. I'd rather save 10watts and have a seriously fast laptop than save 20watts and have a slightly faster than before one.
Remember, bang per buck is rubbish on all Macs, with Centrino actually producing fast P4 units now Apple needs to stop messing about.
2.5Ghz HP laptop $1900 or 1Ghz Powerbook at $2300? Yes the Powerbook is nicer, but like it or not the HP is cheaper and faster.
The 970 offers 2.5Ghz-like speed with 800Mhz-like power consumption and price. Plus 64bit PR value.
I totally agree with the most of your post, Blackcat, but not this:
Quote:
Originally posted by Blackcat
Moto promise much and deliver little and very late. Remember how mind bendingly great Apollo was meant to be? The 7470, the 7500, the 8500?
The 7470, the 7500 and the 8500 were mostly rubbish the sock-smoking Ryan Meader made up for MOSR, or something as reliable, never something motorola 'promised' in publicity. I don't consider those promised, and they're very far from being as ***CONFIRMED as the 7457 is now. It's up at their site, in all it's (very, very late) glory.
Good lord, a lot of people have extravgant fantasies here! Dual chip laptops! PPC970s across the board!
I think we get a revved G4 in the next PB...and I do think the 15" will be revved the Al enclosure with a speed bump at the same time the 17" and 12" get speedbumps/upgrades. And I'm hoping that will happen at MWNY (or whatever it gets called) with product shipping in September.
Anything more ambitious than that seems like it's overreaching, frankly.
With a 1.2Ghz 970 using 10watts less than a 1Ghz G4 and BEING OVER TWICE AS FAST who would pay $3000 knowing it IS coming? Few.
Nobody knows that it is coming. Those that think they do are being overly hopeful. Only when Apple announces it or it become backed by reliable sources will anyone be able to say with any certainty what we are getting and when we are getting it. If you aren't satisified with a speed bump, then wait another six months. Those in need of 970 PB will get it, in time. Later than sooner.
Apple is satisfied with having put out the 12" and 17", and there hasn't been much conclusive evidence that they are ready with a Al 15" or if they are waiting on it. Given that, they aren't going to be in any hurry to put out something bigger. They might be inclined to update the 15" with the new 15.4" screen and the Al enclosure, but that's it. You can only guess what they will do, which is that since haven't seen a new 15.4" Al book, it must mean there will be a 970 in it when we do. Well, I haven't seen a tablet from Apple, so they must have one ready. I haven't seen OS X for x86 released yet, so they must be preparing to get it on the shelves. I also haven't seen an iPhone, so it must be coming. Apple has other things to put their time into, like getting us some fricking desktops and get Panther ready.
Once again, we all know that the 970 has a nice low power consumption and good performance. We all know that Moto sucks. While true, and like the previous paragraph, it's no evidence that we will see the 970 in a portable alongside desktops at it's debut. You don't even know that MWNY will bring us 970 desktops, and you're predicting that we'll get that and PowerBooks.
Again, Moto sucks, and IBM doesn't, so the 970 could and should trickle down into the rest of the machines at a quicker pace than the G4 did. But some want it to happen unrealistically fast.
So what if Jobs said it is the year of the laptop/notebook. You're putting WAY to much behind a simple coined phrase.
Remember people, there is a certaing "thing" called the G4, it's clocks at 1Ghz, it's associated with the number "7457", and it consumes less than 10W. Check mot's page. When the 970 is out (or somewhat later), the 1,2 Ghz one is consuming 50% more power per clock, than the 1Ghz G4, and that's plenty a reason to stick with the G4 if power is a real problem. But the 970 is 25% speedier per watt (provided it's two times the G4 per clock).
I'm not saying that Apple will use the G4, I'm saying that the 970 is not always the best choice... and that the 1Ghz G4 will not consume 30W forever
The 970 is not a G4! The reason for not using G4 in the PB was that the main advantages of G4 Alivec and SMP had no support in appliction nor in OS and it took a long time for the G4 to get past the computing power of the B&W G3/450 and then the heat output was really big.
The comparison that the 970 is twise the speed of a G4 is for G4 with a L2. And that L2 cost money space and heat! So it looks like 970 right of the bat offer CPUs that have comparable heat output to the G4 with substantailly better performance. The G4 had neither compared to the G3.
If there will be shortage of 970 in the 700 Mhz to 1.2 GHz range Apple may have to use a new G4 when and if it becomes aviable.
Can anyone describe the yield distribution in chip manufacturing? Do you get a Gauss distribution with most in the midrange and some few really fast and some few really slow or is the highest yields at the lowest speed and then a monotone decline towards the top speed?
I think (or dream) Apple can do it again with the 970.
Pro:
Something between 1.4 and 2.5 (single or dual).
Go :
I can clearly see a 15" AluBook 64 bits with a 1.2@19W.
Later they can upgrade LapZilla to the 970 and they can rename the 12" AluBook -> iBook 3
Whoa :
The same thing can be done with the 17" iMac, again with a 1.2@19W.
They can leave the 15" iMac with the G4 like the new iBook.
For the eMac, I think they must do a iCheap "Cube" G4.
So we have 970 in : PowerMac, PowerBook and iMac and G4 in iBook, iMac and iCheap. This is possible. But I believe we see the 970 only later (2004) in the iMac.
Comments
1+ GHz.
Multicore Superscalar
SMP capable
Integrated SIMD engine
Rapid I/O
n-way Crossbar Coreconnect
I could live with a 5 stage pipeline dual core processer using Rapid I/O and Altivec(VMX) that consumes, say, oh, about 12 watts max.
Then again I'm not holding my breath for either this or a 970 in a Powerbook before the beginning of next year. But both are possible
The 970 @ 1.2GHz - which would make it a FAR superior machine to a 1GHz G4, consumes just 19W. The G4 is rated @ 30W.
So my guess, is that the 970 PowerMacs WILL be announced @ MWNY - if not earlier (JULY).
Which brings us to September, when the PowerBooks will be due for a speed bump from 1GHz.
My guess is they may indeed be able to accomodate the 970 @ 1.8GHz (max) even though its rated at 42W - some tweaking can be done to the OS to keep it acceptable from a heat/power dissipation perspective, and this is at worse case, before IBM would be able to tool the plant for the 90nm process. But really, 970 @ 1-1.4+ will not be a problem for the PowerBook. Of course, a new MB will be required and be ready in time.
Also, the 850 is not 64bit, and I doubt Apple would not try to get as much leverage out of its 64bit marketing of 10.3 into its PRO line of laptops as well.
The 850 is ideal for the iBook range - no doubt, even better than the G4, at least as fast and much lower power.
In fact, I was surprised not to see an Al 15" - but think about it. The 15's are just as good as the new Als, so why take spotlight away from the Als for now. At the next refresh, we will see all the powerbooks as Al's?
So whilst the PowerMacs will desperately appreciate the 970's in JULY, its STILL the year of the Laptop, come September this will be reinforced.
For what its worth?
People buy ibooks cause they are cheap. PowerBook users are different and might hold off if they saw/used a 970 in a desktop. I for one am tired of using the same old g4 for 2 years and seeing barely any reason to upgrade for a few hundred MHz.
So then you agree. G3s still sell. G4s will still sell, and expect Apple to continue using them in machines even after the 970 is introduced. When the G4 was released, you may have thought "no one will buy a G3 now that we have the G4 with altivec and dual configs", yet G3s continued to exist in the product line for quite a while and still exist in iBooks. Expect the same during the transition to the 970. Just because PowerBook users may hold off doesn't mean they won't see another six months to a year longer of G4s in the portable line.
I can imagine Apple wants to rid themselves of Moto as soon as possible, and high production of 970s might help, but you aren't going to see an immediate hurry to get the 970 into PowerBooks. It would be great to put 970s into PowerMacs, PowerBooks, Xserves, iMacs, and eMacs in one fell swoop as some here think should happen. It won't.
Originally posted by FrostyMMB
I can imagine Apple wants to rid themselves of Moto as soon as possible, and high production of 970s might help, but you aren't going to see an immediate hurry to get the 970 into PowerBooks. It would be great to put 970s into PowerMacs, PowerBooks, Xserves, iMacs, and eMacs in one fell swoop as some here think should happen. It won't.
The current G4's remain important to the Consumer Desktops. The 850's are not due until later this year, so its unlikely we will see these chips in iBooks and iMacs/eMacs until MWSF at the earliest.
The interesting point is that these chips could well be marketed as G4's, and give iBook fans continual performance growth. It also would not surprise me if Apple at some point would provide for a single High End 970 iMac (@ approx. 1.8GHz).
Until this happens G3's & G4's will remain within their existing lineups, the introduction of 850's would spell th end of Apple CPU purchases from Moto.
For what its worth?
I don't agree with this "970 in an iMac" prospect. At least not in the coming year. When the 970 gets put into the Powermac, the Powermac will be ahead of most of the industry's desktops, let alone the rest of the Macs. It took more than two years for the G4 to get itself seated in the iMac, and the case will be the same with the 970. Heck the iBook hasn't even moved to G4 yet!
Exactly. Yet some people are wishing for the iMac to get the 970 soon.
...G3's & G4's will remain within their existing lineups, the introduction of 850's would spell th end of Apple CPU purchases from Moto.
I agree, and I hope this plays out. I'm eager to get rid of the plague of Motorola.
Originally posted by jindrich
-first, IMHO we're still some good months away before the 15"alu ships. Lazpilla is just reaching customers, and If the new 15 alu appeared now it would cannibalize 17" sales for sure.
Why? If somebody wants a 17" laptop they aren't going to buy a 15" one. I don't see canabilization happening here.
-building a new 15 in alu case (therefore not a simple revision but a whole model change) and NOT upgrading the cpu it's something apple has NEVER done. Then if a cpu upgrade is on the planning, so lapzilla WILL. Lapzila has just been introduced (MWSF), then we can't expect a change till next 7 months (following apple powerbooks trend)
There's a first time for everything. Going to exactly the 17" model's specs except with a 15" display would still be a noticable upgrade.
-current gigaTi is not that different from Lapzilla, or Lapzilla is not THAT revolutionary, but more an evolution of the 15" with a bigger screen. I'm sure there's already a Lapzilla mobo in a lab, ready to house a 970. (and take REAL advantge of the higher bus and ram speed, as well as fire800)
There may be lab prototypes but I don't think the 970 is ready for laptop use yet. We'll probably see 7457s in the laptops first.
-IBM 970 is not longer a promise or vapourware but a reality (and sooner than we expected me thinks).
Not yet it isn't. The initial production run will probably be taken up with IBM's needs and the PowerMac.
-By MWNY we may see the 970 into desktops, AND a lower speed version into the Lapzilla rev B, as well as into the NEW 15,4" Alubook.
-12" minibook can stay G4 to differentiate from the better powerbooks, and it will take place of the *entry-line* ibook macs, therefore making g3 ibooks dissapear as too many iLife apps already need a g4.
You can dream.
Originally posted by FrostyMMB
Exactly. Yet some people are wishing for the iMac to get the 970 soon.
The 970 will go into the iMac way faster than the G4 entered the line. My bet is that we'll first see speed-bumped iMacs when the 970 is introduced in the PowerMac line, and that we'll see the 970 in the iMac in the first half next year, maybe as early as MWSF.
1) right now it's the ONLY powerbook that can still BOOT INTO 9 (think Quark users and musicians/studios, who won't see apps/plugins fully ported to OSx -and BUGFREE!- until end of 2003)
2) there's still plenty of stock of Tis get rid of (guessing)
3) an upgrade to the Ti would mean faster cpu, wich would piss off lazpilla customers.
iTherefore I believe the NEW 15,4" Alu will be introduced along with a lazpzilla revision. that set us MWNY/September.
so with 970s already introduced into desktops by then (again a guess), WHICH ONE OF US, TI OWNERS, are going to upgrade our Ti's just for a few mghz, if new powerbooks are introduced with just say a 1,2 ghz OOOOOOOLD G4?
No such powerbooks will be bought.
WE ALL WILL WAIT for the next 15"/17" alubooks to have some kinda 970 inside. Me at least.
And this is THE YEAR OF THE LAPTOP. Jobs dixit.
Mine is strictly a Marketing case study/viewpoint . That's why i predict the next alu 15" will/should have 970 inside.
Originally posted by jindrich
IMHO those are the reasons the 15" Ti is STILL between us:
1) right now it's the ONLY powerbook that can still BOOT INTO 9 (think Quark users and musicians/studios, who won't see apps/plugins fully ported to OSx -and BUGFREE!- until end of 2003)
2) there's still plenty of stock of Tis get rid of (guessing)
3) an upgrade to the Ti would mean faster cpu, wich would piss off lazpilla customers.
iTherefore I believe the NEW 15,4" Alu will be introduced along with a lazpzilla revision. that set us MWNY/September.
so with 970s already introduced into desktops by then (again a guess), WHICH ONE OF US, TI OWNERS, are going to upgrade our Ti's just for a few mghz, if new powerbooks are introduced with just say a 1,2 ghz OOOOOOOLD G4?
No such powerbooks will be bought.
WE ALL WILL WAIT for the next 15"/17" alubooks to have some kinda 970 inside. Me at least.
And this is THE YEAR OF THE LAPTOP. Jobs dixit.
Mine is strictly a Marketing case study/viewpoint . That's why i predict the next alu 15" will/should have 970 inside.
Yes!
You understand!
With a 1.2Ghz 970 using 10watts less than a 1Ghz G4 and BEING OVER TWICE AS FAST who would pay $3000 knowing it IS coming? Few.
People seem stuck on 2 points:
1) Apple chooses to hold speed back
2) Apple will start designing m/boards when the 970 ships
Both points are silly.
If Apple could release the fastest desktop and laptop on the market tomorrow do you really all think they'd say "ooh no we'll wait 10 months for the 7457, Moto always deliver on time and scale so well".
I think they have a few systems ready to go, and just need the CPU.
Originally posted by Blackcat
Yes!
You understand!
With a 1.2Ghz 970 using 10watts less than a 1Ghz G4 and BEING OVER TWICE AS FAST who would pay $3000 knowing it IS coming? Few.
People seem stuck on 2 points:
1) Apple chooses to hold speed back
2) Apple will start designing m/boards when the 970 ships
Both points are silly.
If Apple could release the fastest desktop and laptop on the market tomorrow do you really all think they'd say "ooh no we'll wait 10 months for the 7457, Moto always deliver on time and scale so well".
I think they have a few systems ready to go, and just need the CPU.
Your right, the only factors affecting their decision to release this will be availability of cpu's and motherboard design. Here's hoping IBM's yields are great, because demand will be significant. Oh wait, that brings up supply and demand, nevermind.
I'm not saying that Apple will use the G4, I'm saying that the 970 is not always the best choice... and that the 1Ghz G4 will not consume 30W forever
Originally posted by r-0X#Zapchud
Remember people, there is a certaing "thing" called the G4, it's clocks at 1Ghz, it's associated with the number "7457", and it consumes less than 10W. Check mot's page. When the 970 is out (or somewhat later), the 1,2 Ghz one is consuming 50% more power per clock, than the 1Ghz G4, and that's plenty a reason to stick with the G4 if power is a real problem. But the 970 is 25% speedier per watt (provided it's two times the G4 per clock).
I'm not saying that Apple will use the G4, I'm saying that the 970 is not always the best choice... and that the 1Ghz G4 will not consume 30W forever
Moto promise much and deliver little and very late. Remember how mind bendingly great Apollo was meant to be? The 7470, the 7500, the 8500?
IBM have a habit of delivering early and better than expected. I'd rather save 10watts and have a seriously fast laptop than save 20watts and have a slightly faster than before one.
Remember, bang per buck is rubbish on all Macs, with Centrino actually producing fast P4 units now Apple needs to stop messing about.
2.5Ghz HP laptop $1900 or 1Ghz Powerbook at $2300? Yes the Powerbook is nicer, but like it or not the HP is cheaper and faster.
The 970 offers 2.5Ghz-like speed with 800Mhz-like power consumption and price. Plus 64bit PR value.
I say save the 7457 for the iTablet
Originally posted by Blackcat
Moto promise much and deliver little and very late. Remember how mind bendingly great Apollo was meant to be? The 7470, the 7500, the 8500?
The 7470, the 7500 and the 8500 were mostly rubbish the sock-smoking Ryan Meader made up for MOSR, or something as reliable, never something motorola 'promised' in publicity. I don't consider those promised, and they're very far from being as ***CONFIRMED as the 7457 is now. It's up at their site, in all it's (very, very late) glory.
'Apollo' is probably a different story
I think we get a revved G4 in the next PB...and I do think the 15" will be revved the Al enclosure with a speed bump at the same time the 17" and 12" get speedbumps/upgrades. And I'm hoping that will happen at MWNY (or whatever it gets called) with product shipping in September.
Anything more ambitious than that seems like it's overreaching, frankly.
With a 1.2Ghz 970 using 10watts less than a 1Ghz G4 and BEING OVER TWICE AS FAST who would pay $3000 knowing it IS coming? Few.
Nobody knows that it is coming. Those that think they do are being overly hopeful. Only when Apple announces it or it become backed by reliable sources will anyone be able to say with any certainty what we are getting and when we are getting it. If you aren't satisified with a speed bump, then wait another six months. Those in need of 970 PB will get it, in time. Later than sooner.
Apple is satisfied with having put out the 12" and 17", and there hasn't been much conclusive evidence that they are ready with a Al 15" or if they are waiting on it. Given that, they aren't going to be in any hurry to put out something bigger. They might be inclined to update the 15" with the new 15.4" screen and the Al enclosure, but that's it. You can only guess what they will do, which is that since haven't seen a new 15.4" Al book, it must mean there will be a 970 in it when we do. Well, I haven't seen a tablet from Apple, so they must have one ready. I haven't seen OS X for x86 released yet, so they must be preparing to get it on the shelves. I also haven't seen an iPhone, so it must be coming. Apple has other things to put their time into, like getting us some fricking desktops and get Panther ready.
Once again, we all know that the 970 has a nice low power consumption and good performance. We all know that Moto sucks. While true, and like the previous paragraph, it's no evidence that we will see the 970 in a portable alongside desktops at it's debut. You don't even know that MWNY will bring us 970 desktops, and you're predicting that we'll get that and PowerBooks.
Again, Moto sucks, and IBM doesn't, so the 970 could and should trickle down into the rest of the machines at a quicker pace than the G4 did. But some want it to happen unrealistically fast.
So what if Jobs said it is the year of the laptop/notebook. You're putting WAY to much behind a simple coined phrase.
Originally posted by r-0X#Zapchud
Remember people, there is a certaing "thing" called the G4, it's clocks at 1Ghz, it's associated with the number "7457", and it consumes less than 10W. Check mot's page. When the 970 is out (or somewhat later), the 1,2 Ghz one is consuming 50% more power per clock, than the 1Ghz G4, and that's plenty a reason to stick with the G4 if power is a real problem. But the 970 is 25% speedier per watt (provided it's two times the G4 per clock).
I'm not saying that Apple will use the G4, I'm saying that the 970 is not always the best choice... and that the 1Ghz G4 will not consume 30W forever
How much will a 1GHz PPC970 consume? 15W
We know:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]??
Can somebody make a diagram
I'm really NOT an expert about CPU power consuption, but it seems that : (roughly speaking)
Watt = Const * GHz * Volts^2
where Const ~ 13.8 for the PPC970
If so, a 1GHz PPC970 running at 1.1V should drain about 17W.
It it can run at 1V, it should drain 14W.
The comparison that the 970 is twise the speed of a G4 is for G4 with a L2. And that L2 cost money space and heat! So it looks like 970 right of the bat offer CPUs that have comparable heat output to the G4 with substantailly better performance. The G4 had neither compared to the G3.
If there will be shortage of 970 in the 700 Mhz to 1.2 GHz range Apple may have to use a new G4 when and if it becomes aviable.
Can anyone describe the yield distribution in chip manufacturing? Do you get a Gauss distribution with most in the midrange and some few really fast and some few really slow or is the highest yields at the lowest speed and then a monotone decline towards the top speed?
I think (or dream) Apple can do it again with the 970.
Pro:
Something between 1.4 and 2.5 (single or dual).
Go :
I can clearly see a 15" AluBook 64 bits with a 1.2@19W.
Later they can upgrade LapZilla to the 970 and they can rename the 12" AluBook -> iBook 3
Whoa :
The same thing can be done with the 17" iMac, again with a 1.2@19W.
They can leave the 15" iMac with the G4 like the new iBook.
For the eMac, I think they must do a iCheap "Cube" G4.
So we have 970 in : PowerMac, PowerBook and iMac and G4 in iBook, iMac and iCheap. This is possible. But I believe we see the 970 only later (2004) in the iMac.