What the EU mandate for a common smartphone charger means

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  • Reply 41 of 52
    lkrupp said:
    I guess one question to discuss is what makes Lightening better than USB-C. Does Lightening do something or provide something USB-C cannot?
    Lightning is a very, very interesting connector.

    The pins are not directly analogous to USB, as is commonly presumed. They're actually adaptive. You could have a cord that is lightning on one end and, say, VGA on the other; the device would inform the iOS device that "this is a connection where pin 1 does this, pin 2 does that, etc."

    I think there was some talk about this making lightning ideal for obscure medical devices and analog video, but in practice it seems to pretty much be used just for USB. Even lightning -> HDMI without a dongle — which is totally possible — hasn't officially materialized because the HDMI foundation has a rod up its ass.

    It's a shame that Apple didn't just open the standard before USB-C was invented; USB-C will never be as durable as Lightning.
    StrangeDaysrazorpitwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 42 of 52
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,699member
    In the end the EU will have a bunch devices with two ports and twice as many cables when companies decide to move forward and add a second proprietary port that does things the standard port can’t do. Forcing interoperability will not save on waste, consolidating function does.

    And I still don’t get the “waste” argument. Whether that cable is Lightning or USB-C it’s a physical object that exists in the world and will eventually end up in a landfill. Unless the goal is that devices won’t be shipped with cables and people will just have to use their old cable? Or are EU citizens supposed to share a single cable?
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 43 of 52
    MplsPmplsp Posts: 4,143member
    jcs2305 said:
    MplsP said:
    jdb8167 said:
    lkrupp said:
    I guess one question to discuss is what makes Lightening better than USB-C. Does Lightening do something or provide something USB-C cannot?
    Lightning's connector itself is a bit more durable than the jacketed USB data and power connector, and easier to extract from a device if it shears off.

    USB-C can carry more data and power faster than Lightning can. How relevant this is to mobile varies, user to user.
    According to Apple's submission, the lightning jack in the phone is also smaller leaving more room for battery and other components. This might explain why they are willing to use USB-C on iPad Pros but not on iPhones.

    From their Copenhagen Economics submission:
    https://www.copenhageneconomics.com/dyn/resources/Publication/publicationPDF/3/523/1579701038/united-in-diversity_copenhagen-economics.pdf

    "For example, not only is the USB Type-C connector larger than the Lightning connector on the outside, thus restricting how slim devices can be, it also takes up more space inside the device which impacts the space left for other components, such as the size of the battery. Overall, the USB Type-C solution takes up 69 per cent more space of a device than the Lightning solution. This has a significant impact on the design, slimness and internal hardware capacity of the devices."
    One of the big advantages of the Lightning connector is that it is a single, monolithic piece, as opposed to the USB C connector which is a coaxial connector with a ‘tongue’ in the female port. This makes it harder to clean debris out of the port. The lightning connector also has a better indentation got positively securing the plug. 

    As far as data capacity is concerned, I don’t think that matters much for smart phones. For iPads it definitely could. 

    Iooking at the two, I have a hard time believing there is a significant difference in the amount of space they take up. 
    You feel like this is a false statement?

    Overall, the USB Type-C solution takes up 69 per cent more space of a device than the Lightning solution. This has a significant impact on the design, slimness and internal hardware capacity of the devices."


    What would Copenhagen Economics gain from publishing this false info?  Payment from Apple?  
    I didn’t say the figure was wrong, I just said I didn’t think the difference was significant. 
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  • Reply 44 of 52
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,699member

    MplsP said:
    jdb8167 said:
    lkrupp said:
    I guess one question to discuss is what makes Lightening better than USB-C. Does Lightening do something or provide something USB-C cannot?
    Lightning's connector itself is a bit more durable than the jacketed USB data and power connector, and easier to extract from a device if it shears off.

    USB-C can carry more data and power faster than Lightning can. How relevant this is to mobile varies, user to user.
    According to Apple's submission, the lightning jack in the phone is also smaller leaving more room for battery and other components. This might explain why they are willing to use USB-C on iPad Pros but not on iPhones.

    From their Copenhagen Economics submission:
    https://www.copenhageneconomics.com/dyn/resources/Publication/publicationPDF/3/523/1579701038/united-in-diversity_copenhagen-economics.pdf

    "For example, not only is the USB Type-C connector larger than the Lightning connector on the outside, thus restricting how slim devices can be, it also takes up more space inside the device which impacts the space left for other components, such as the size of the battery. Overall, the USB Type-C solution takes up 69 per cent more space of a device than the Lightning solution. This has a significant impact on the design, slimness and internal hardware capacity of the devices."
    One of the big advantages of the Lightning connector is that it is a single, monolithic piece, as opposed to the USB C connector which is a coaxial connector with a ‘tongue’ in the female port. This makes it harder to clean debris out of the port. The lightning connector also has a better indentation got positively securing the plug. 

    As far as data capacity is concerned, I don’t think that matters much for smart phones. For iPads it definitely could. 

    Iooking at the two, I have a hard time believing there is a significant difference in the amount of space they take up. 

    It is hard to tell the size difference until you look at something like the Apple Pencil or Siri Remote... It’s much more obvious that a USB-C port would in fact be too big for either of those.

    Which leads me to wonder if this new law will also affect those devices as well? And Apple’s keyboard, trackpad and mouse, not to mention the AirPod case?

    You start to think about all of that, it makes sense why Apple is so against this law. And why they believe forcing that can and probably will stifle innovation. Apple designed Lightning so that they could do all of those things with it, because the alternative “standards” of the time were severely lacking.
    razorpitwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 45 of 52
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,699member
    Eric_WVGG said:
    lkrupp said:
    I guess one question to discuss is what makes Lightening better than USB-C. Does Lightening do something or provide something USB-C cannot?
    Lightning is a very, very interesting connector.

    The pins are not directly analogous to USB, as is commonly presumed. They're actually adaptive. You could have a cord that is lightning on one end and, say, VGA on the other; the device would inform the iOS device that "this is a connection where pin 1 does this, pin 2 does that, etc."

    I think there was some talk about this making lightning ideal for obscure medical devices and analog video, but in practice it seems to pretty much be used just for USB. Even lightning -> HDMI without a dongle — which is totally possible — hasn't officially materialized because the HDMI foundation has a rod up its ass.

    It's a shame that Apple didn't just open the standard before USB-C was invented; USB-C will never be as durable as Lightning.

    It has been said that Apple developed Lightning and what was later to become USB-C at the same time. Once they decided to go with Lightning, they submitted the “USB-C” connector for consideration as a next gen. USB connector.

    Now that Thunderbolt uses the connector, it’s a bit more clear what Apple could’ve intended all along?
    FileMakerFellerEric_WVGGwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 46 of 52
    linkman said:
    bala1234 said:
    lkrupp said:
    Apple will, of course, do what is necessary to comply with the EU regulations coming. It’s just sad that it has come to this, a bunch of clueless bureaucrats deciding what’s in the best interests of their subjects. And believe me, it won’t stop with chargers. There’s a reason not much technology innovation comes out of Europe.
    While I share your concern of 'overbearing attitude' and 'slippery slope', I do look forward to day when I can have one charger for all my phones laptops and tablets...
    "One size fits all" is a terrible principle. The 16-inch MacBook Pro comes with a 96 watt adapter, which is $79 in the US. The iPhone 8 comes with a 5 watt adapter, which is $19 in the US. I would hate to be required to purchase such a large and expensive adapter with my phone just so it can also serve as a laptop power supply. Also note that a properly designed power supply will be the most energy efficient when used as close as possible to its rated capacity.

    While I don't know what your mix of phones, laptops, and tablets you have now but it's likely that you could use a single charger for all of them if coupled with the proper end or cord adapters.

    Not disagreeing with you entirely, but think while traveling If you just needed to carry your Mac Book Pro charger and nothing else...
    Besides you do get USB-c charger in all possible watts if that is your concern.

    Adapters are made for loosing while travelling...
    razorpit
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  • Reply 47 of 52
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member
    It's my understanding that if Apple complied with EU it will become worldwide standard? I can't imagine Apple create different version of iPhone just for one group.
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  • Reply 48 of 52
    I think USB C is a great idea, I’ve got the 12.9” 2nd Gen iPad Pro, iPhone XR & Apple Watch series 3 and would love to just have one lead to charge all (Except Apple Watch obviously). 
    I hate micro usb, I find it infuriating the way some devices have it different normal or upside down, at least with Type C it plugs in either way. 
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  • Reply 49 of 52
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 1,171member
    lkrupp said:
    I guess one question to discuss is what makes Lightening better than USB-C. Does Lightening do something or provide something USB-C cannot?
    Timing original - Lightning came out several years before USB-C and accomplished many of the same goals. Compact, reversible, "smart" ability to take new functions.
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 50 of 52
    So I have a quick question. Does this affect iPhones globally, yes I know it’s a stupid question but I would like to just know
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  • Reply 51 of 52
    swat671swat671 Posts: 171member
    Apple charges money to enroll in and use the MFi (Made For iPhone iPod iPad) program. I wonder if they’re worrying about loosing royalties and fees if they have to switch to an industry standard like USB-C...

    https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/
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  • Reply 52 of 52
    Mike Wuerthelemike wuerthele Posts: 7,103administrator
    So I have a quick question. Does this affect iPhones globally, yes I know it’s a stupid question but I would like to just know
    No.

    From the article: "Consequently it's very unclear what will happen next and the only certainties seem to be that it will take a long time. While any hardware choices may have carry-over effects in other countries, it will only be mandated in European Union member-states."
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