How is this app that much different any app that has 'everything-and-the-kitchen-sink' built into them (like Facebook had they not broken Messenger out into a separate app)?
And why is WeChat so popular in China? What's to prevent the latest and greatest chap app to come around in a year or two to knock it off its pertch?
Why so popular? Probably because the dictatorship wants it to be since it almost certainly has access to all data flowing through it. The Chinese people have no freedom of speech, no right to assemble to petition the government (think Tiananmen Square), no right to a political opinion (unless it conforms to the dictatorship’s), no real religious freedom. Look what the dictatorship did to Tibet (a cultural genocide) and now the Uighurs (a physical and cultural genocide. Watch the latest PBS Frontline show). The Chinese people are only a half-step above the poor souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in North Korea.
I wish we had freedom from religion, freedom from guns, freedom from dummies, freedom from forums.
Ya know, you don’t need to follow a religion, you don’t have to buy a gun, you don’t have to hang around people you consider dummies, and you don’t have to read or comment on this forum. You’ve got choices. Not everyone does in some countries.
Unfortunately, religious beliefs are being imposed on us under the guise of "religious freedom", and you can't escape the epidemic of gun nuts. And nor does it seem possible to escape the flood of propagandized dummies.
The choices here are becoming rather slim.
LOL... Apparently you're no student of history. "...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." You want me to believe you have no understanding of the Judeo-Christian roots in our fledgling confederation of states when the Constitution was written, nor how those beliefs influenced what it contained?
"In God We Trust" used to mean far more then it does today, and holding your hand on the Bible while swearing to tell the truth in a Court of Law was almost universally accepted and generally honored in the US.
So NO, religious beliefs aren't being "imposed" on you more today than in the past 250 years. On the contrary, the open ridicule (It appears you're in that happy group) of those who believe in a higher power than themselves seems to be at an all-time high.
How is this app that much different any app that has 'everything-and-the-kitchen-sink' built into them (like Facebook had they not broken Messenger out into a separate app)?
And why is WeChat so popular in China? What's to prevent the latest and greatest chap app to come around in a year or two to knock it off its pertch?
Why so popular? Probably because the dictatorship wants it to be since it almost certainly has access to all data flowing through it. The Chinese people have no freedom of speech, no right to assemble to petition the government (think Tiananmen Square), no right to a political opinion (unless it conforms to the dictatorship’s), no real religious freedom. Look what the dictatorship did to Tibet (a cultural genocide) and now the Uighurs (a physical and cultural genocide. Watch the latest PBS Frontline show). The Chinese people are only a half-step above the poor souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in North Korea.
I live in Switzerland. I started using WeChat when working with a Chinese design company. It is simply brilliant. It is extremely convenient for communication, sharing files and organising work. It handles all sorts of file format, reduces the size and transcodes from one format to the other. You don’t even have to be aware of it. Just post, receive and distribute. It is totally clutter-free, transparent and responsive and there is a great (yet super simple) client for MacBooks. After a while I started noticing that quite a few of my colleges in Switzerland also love WeChat. It is not widely used here, so we (have to) stick to WhatsApp, Instagram and Facebook. But I wouldn’t mind doing all in WeChat. It really combines simplicity and ease of use in a hugely versatile, powerful and fun application. Shame it is also so problematic.
One would have to be completely ignorant of the vast security risks involved by using such a program. There’s no way it’s suitable for business.
So for Apple to succeed it must let go of all of its security and privacy? Is that what the author is saying? The author seems to imply that unless Apple does this it is doomed. I guess that’s okay in a totalitarian dictatorship but what about democracies burdened with human rights and privacy protections?
Anyone who thinks ANY Chinese company is not monitored and controlled by the government is simply delusional.
One good thing that has come out of the pandemic so far is that people are realizing that almost all PPE is produced in China. The U.S. makes almost none of it, from masks, to ventilators, to hand sanitizer. Oh, and almost ALL generic drugs are manufactured in China too. That blood pressure or diabetes medication you take... made in and shipped from China. Because of cheap labor don’t you know. We now know that we in the U.S. are basically at China’s mercy economically. Maybe, just maybe, this crisis will open some eyes but I doubt it. Price trumps everything, just like the trolls who scream about Apple’s products being overpriced.
And as for the author’s claim that Google’s services are banned in China, I dispute that. As I recall Google made the decision to exit China because it would not acquiesce to the communist dictatorship’s demands.
I like that many of the alcoholic beverage companies in the US are now getting into the hand sanitizer market. When customers demand, supply soon follows.
Sometimes sooner... Sometimes later. In this case, it was too late for about 30,000 people.
The free market doesn't serve in emergency conditions well. It isn't geared for that.
How is this app that much different any app that has 'everything-and-the-kitchen-sink' built into them (like Facebook had they not broken Messenger out into a separate app)?
And why is WeChat so popular in China? What's to prevent the latest and greatest chap app to come around in a year or two to knock it off its pertch?
Why so popular? Probably because the dictatorship wants it to be since it almost certainly has access to all data flowing through it. The Chinese people have no freedom of speech, no right to assemble to petition the government (think Tiananmen Square), no right to a political opinion (unless it conforms to the dictatorship’s), no real religious freedom. Look what the dictatorship did to Tibet (a cultural genocide) and now the Uighurs (a physical and cultural genocide. Watch the latest PBS Frontline show). The Chinese people are only a half-step above the poor souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in North Korea.
I wish we had freedom from religion, freedom from guns, freedom from dummies, freedom from forums.
Ya know, you don’t need to follow a religion, you don’t have to buy a gun, you don’t have to hang around people you consider dummies, and you don’t have to read or comment on this forum. You’ve got choices. Not everyone does in some countries.
Unfortunately, religious beliefs are being imposed on us under the guise of "religious freedom", and you can't escape the epidemic of gun nuts. And nor does it seem possible to escape the flood of propagandized dummies.
The choices here are becoming rather slim.
LOL... Apparently you're no student of history. "...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." You want me to believe you have no understanding of the Judeo-Christian roots in our fledgling confederation of states when the Constitution was written, nor how those beliefs influenced what it contained?
"In God We Trust" used to mean far more then it does today, and holding your hand on the Bible while swearing to tell the truth in a Court of Law was almost universally accepted and generally honored in the US.
So NO, religious beliefs aren't being "imposed" on you more today than in the past 250 years. On the contrary, the open ridicule (It appears you're in that happy group) of those who believe in a higher power than themselves seems to be at an all-time high.
Nice rewrite of history! The founding fathers deliberately kept both king and religion out of the Constitution. But, the Trumpers have never let facts and truth interfere with their agenda
How is this app that much different any app that has 'everything-and-the-kitchen-sink' built into them (like Facebook had they not broken Messenger out into a separate app)?
And why is WeChat so popular in China? What's to prevent the latest and greatest chap app to come around in a year or two to knock it off its pertch?
Why so popular? Probably because the dictatorship wants it to be since it almost certainly has access to all data flowing through it. The Chinese people have no freedom of speech, no right to assemble to petition the government (think Tiananmen Square), no right to a political opinion (unless it conforms to the dictatorship’s), no real religious freedom. Look what the dictatorship did to Tibet (a cultural genocide) and now the Uighurs (a physical and cultural genocide. Watch the latest PBS Frontline show). The Chinese people are only a half-step above the poor souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in North Korea.
I wish we had freedom from religion, freedom from guns, freedom from dummies, freedom from forums.
Ya know, you don’t need to follow a religion, you don’t have to buy a gun, you don’t have to hang around people you consider dummies, and you don’t have to read or comment on this forum. You’ve got choices. Not everyone does in some countries.
Unfortunately, religious beliefs are being imposed on us under the guise of "religious freedom", and you can't escape the epidemic of gun nuts. And nor does it seem possible to escape the flood of propagandized dummies.
The choices here are becoming rather slim.
LOL... Apparently you're no student of history. "...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
Nice rewrite of history! The founding fathers deliberately kept both king and religion out of the Constitution. But, the Trumpers have never let facts and truth interfere with their agenda
Rewrite?? That quote is from our Declaration of Independence, an acknowledgement that whether Christian or Diest (my personal religious leaning and not ashamed to say so) or Jewish or whatever, God "the Creator" was the grantor of our most basic human rights! It was not the founder's place to question what God granted and that is ensconsed in our founding documents. Good grief. Are you truly an American citizen? That's a very honest question.
You spend a lot of words on tearing down our institutions and sowing mistrust of courts to government to schools to churches while at the same time very supportive of a certain foreign country, and quite willing to overlook their various government mistakes, misstatements, and infringement of certain liberties we in the West consider basic human rights. I'm not convinced you don't have some ulterior motive behind your posts. Maybe you're just an unhappy citizen or maybe... I dunno. Something sounds off but I'll accept you are who you claim to be as I cannot prove otherwise.
I also resent your constant suggestions that I'm a "Trumper" by disagreeing with you since you've been personally advised more than once I did not vote for him nor a supporter of him now. Better that you not say anything than be dishonest in replying.
Apparently you're no student of history. "...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
Carlin said it best:
“Think of how it all started: America was founded by slave owners who informed us, 'All men are created equal.' All 'men,' except Indians, n-----s, and women. Remember, the founders were a small group of unelected, white, male, land-holding slave owners who also, by the way, suggested their class be the only one allowed to vote. To my mind, that is what's known as being stunningly--and embarrassingly--full of sh#t.” ― George Carlin
Apparently you're no student of history. "...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
Carlin said it best: etc.
Love Carlin! I was watching some YouTube videos of his appearances on the Carson Show from years ago this past week. George Carlin, Robin Williams, Buddy Hackett, Richard Pryor, all of 'em uniquely funny and creative guys. Carlin and Pryor in particular had a special talent in using their humor to make a valid point about police and government.
An excerpt for those too busy to be bothered learning:
'In Lincoln's famous 1860 Cooper Union speech, he noted that of the 39 framers of the Constitution, 22 had voted on the question of banning slavery in the new territories. Twenty of the 22 voted to ban it, while another one of the Constitution's framers--George Washington--signed into law legislation enforcing the Northwest Ordinance that banned slavery in the Northwest Territories. At Cooper Union, Lincoln also quoted Thomas Jefferson, who had argued in favor of Virginia emancipation: "It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation, and deportation, peaceably, and in such slow degrees, as that the evil will wear off insensibly...."
To be sure, the Founding Fathers weren't abolitionists. But they were overwhelmingly antislavery. "
George Carlin was not as knowledgable about our history as Lincoln, but yeah Carlin was surely a whole lot funnier.
Anyway, now that yet another thread has been dragged down the political rabbithole, and again by one particular poster who hates Trump and misses no opportunity to turn the discussion in that direction, I'm out on further comment. This has drifted so far off topic that I'll leave it to other members to put it back on the right path. If anyone has forgotten what that path is it's in the headline.
How is this app that much different any app that has 'everything-and-the-kitchen-sink' built into them (like Facebook had they not broken Messenger out into a separate app)?
And why is WeChat so popular in China? What's to prevent the latest and greatest chap app to come around in a year or two to knock it off its pertch?
Why so popular? Probably because the dictatorship wants it to be since it almost certainly has access to all data flowing through it. The Chinese people have no freedom of speech, no right to assemble to petition the government (think Tiananmen Square), no right to a political opinion (unless it conforms to the dictatorship’s), no real religious freedom. Look what the dictatorship did to Tibet (a cultural genocide) and now the Uighurs (a physical and cultural genocide. Watch the latest PBS Frontline show). The Chinese people are only a half-step above the poor souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in North Korea.
I wish we had freedom from religion, freedom from guns, freedom from dummies, freedom from forums.
Ya know, you don’t need to follow a religion, you don’t have to buy a gun, you don’t have to hang around people you consider dummies, and you don’t have to read or comment on this forum. You’ve got choices. Not everyone does in some countries.
Unfortunately, religious beliefs are being imposed on us under the guise of "religious freedom", and you can't escape the epidemic of gun nuts. And nor does it seem possible to escape the flood of propagandized dummies.
The choices here are becoming rather slim.
LOL... Apparently you're no student of history. "...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
Nice rewrite of history! The founding fathers deliberately kept both king and religion out of the Constitution. But, the Trumpers have never let facts and truth interfere with their agenda
Rewrite?? That quote is from our Declaration of Independence, an acknowledgement that whether Christian or Diest (my personal religious leaning and not ashamed to say so) or Jewish or whatever, God "the Creator" was the grantor of our most basic human rights! It was not the founder's place to question what God granted and that is ensconsed in our founding documents. Good grief. Are you truly an American citizen? That's a very honest question.
You spend a lot of words on tearing down our institutions and sowing mistrust of courts to government to schools to churches while at the same time very supportive of a certain foreign country, and quite willing to overlook their various government mistakes, misstatements, and infringement of certain liberties we in the West consider basic human rights. I'm not convinced you don't have some ulterior motive behind your posts. Maybe you're just an unhappy citizen or maybe... I dunno. Something sounds off but I'll accept you are who you claim to be as I cannot prove otherwise.
I also resent your constant suggestions that I'm a "Trumper" by disagreeing with you since you've been personally advised more than once I did not vote for him nor a supporter of him now. Better that you not say anything than be dishonest in replying.
Yeh, rewrite....
A creator is common to nearly every religion. To assume it can only be your Christian creator and further, that it declares this country to be Christian in religion is just stupid. It could as easily mean Allah.
No, that not only illustrates how the right rewrites history and facts to suit their agenda it ignores the fact that neither the guy who wrote those words nor the guy who amended the original version to take out the word "sacred" were Christian! Why the hell would two non-Christians declare this a Christian country? LOL.... Jefferson believed that Jesus was 'the most profound philosopher' in the history of the world -- but not a God.
Franklin was a well known agnostic if not an atheist.
So yeh, nice rewrite of history!
No, what I distrust is the far right who, through chicanery, gained control of the government of this nation and is rewriting history and facts in order to force their agenda onto the people of this country.
And, a Trumper is anybody who supports Trump and his corruption.
Apparently you're no student of history. "...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
Carlin said it best:
“Think of how it all started: America was founded by slave owners who informed us, 'All men are created equal.' All 'men,' except Indians, n-----s, and women. Remember, the founders were a small group of unelected, white, male, land-holding slave owners who also, by the way, suggested their class be the only one allowed to vote. To my mind, that is what's known as being stunningly--and embarrassingly--full of sh#t.” ― George Carlin
Yeh, Carlin had a way of slapping you in the face with the obvious that we very carefully hide away.
Today's crazy right wingers try to spin the parts they want to support their agenda -- because rewriting history and spinning facts is just what they do. And the cult follows right along. It just demonstrates the power of propaganda that we so opposed and disparaged the Soviet Union for during the cold war.
How is this app that much different any app that has 'everything-and-the-kitchen-sink' built into them (like Facebook had they not broken Messenger out into a separate app)?
And why is WeChat so popular in China? What's to prevent the latest and greatest chap app to come around in a year or two to knock it off its pertch?
Why so popular? Probably because the dictatorship wants it to be since it almost certainly has access to all data flowing through it. The Chinese people have no freedom of speech, no right to assemble to petition the government (think Tiananmen Square), no right to a political opinion (unless it conforms to the dictatorship’s), no real religious freedom. Look what the dictatorship did to Tibet (a cultural genocide) and now the Uighurs (a physical and cultural genocide. Watch the latest PBS Frontline show). The Chinese people are only a half-step above the poor souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in North Korea.
I wish we had freedom from religion, freedom from guns, freedom from dummies, freedom from forums.
Ya know, you don’t need to follow a religion, you don’t have to buy a gun, you don’t have to hang around people you consider dummies, and you don’t have to read or comment on this forum. You’ve got choices. Not everyone does in some countries.
Unfortunately, religious beliefs are being imposed on us under the guise of "religious freedom", and you can't escape the epidemic of gun nuts. And nor does it seem possible to escape the flood of propagandized dummies.
The choices here are becoming rather slim.
LOL... Apparently you're no student of history. "...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." You want me to believe you have no understanding of the Judeo-Christian roots in our fledgling confederation of states when the Constitution was written, nor how those beliefs influenced what it contained?
"In God We Trust" used to mean far more then it does today, and holding your hand on the Bible while swearing to tell the truth in a Court of Law was almost universally accepted and generally honored in the US.
So NO, religious beliefs aren't being "imposed" on you more today than in the past 250 years. On the contrary, the open ridicule (It appears you're in that happy group) of those who believe in a higher power than themselves seems to be at an all-time high.
Loathe as I am to add to this squabbling, "In God We Trust" only became the US motto and was lawfully required to appear on currency in the 50s. It may have been in common circulation before then, but in terms of institutionalisation in the Federal Government it's a relatively recent addition.
How is this app that much different any app that has 'everything-and-the-kitchen-sink' built into them (like Facebook had they not broken Messenger out into a separate app)?
And why is WeChat so popular in China? What's to prevent the latest and greatest chap app to come around in a year or two to knock it off its pertch?
Why so popular? Probably because the dictatorship wants it to be since it almost certainly has access to all data flowing through it. The Chinese people have no freedom of speech, no right to assemble to petition the government (think Tiananmen Square), no right to a political opinion (unless it conforms to the dictatorship’s), no real religious freedom. Look what the dictatorship did to Tibet (a cultural genocide) and now the Uighurs (a physical and cultural genocide. Watch the latest PBS Frontline show). The Chinese people are only a half-step above the poor souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in North Korea.
I live in Switzerland. I started using WeChat when working with a Chinese design company. It is simply brilliant. It is extremely convenient for communication, sharing files and organising work. It handles all sorts of file format, reduces the size and transcodes from one format to the other. You don’t even have to be aware of it. Just post, receive and distribute. It is totally clutter-free, transparent and responsive and there is a great (yet super simple) client for MacBooks. After a while I started noticing that quite a few of my colleges in Switzerland also love WeChat. It is not widely used here, so we (have to) stick to WhatsApp, Instagram and Facebook. But I wouldn’t mind doing all in WeChat. It really combines simplicity and ease of use in a hugely versatile, powerful and fun application. Shame it is also so problematic.
All of those glowing praises without acknowledging that everything you did or said while using it went straight to the totalitarian government in China. What, you don’t care
Just explaining, why WeChat is so popular. BTW, I forgot to mention the built in translation engine. It allows seamless communication and chats in languages you are not familiar with. Coming back to your point: Of course you are right. But I tend to treat all electronic communication with the assumption that private and state bodies have the technology to listen in. And I keep in mind that any state, regardless how liberal and democratic, can turn totalitarian. Something we painfully experienced (and allowed to happen as a society) not that long ago in Europe. What ever you do and say online could one day be turned against you. So I try to keep that in mind, regardless of the application or system I‘m using.
How is this app that much different any app that has 'everything-and-the-kitchen-sink' built into them (like Facebook had they not broken Messenger out into a separate app)?
And why is WeChat so popular in China? What's to prevent the latest and greatest chap app to come around in a year or two to knock it off its pertch?
Why so popular? Probably because the dictatorship wants it to be since it almost certainly has access to all data flowing through it. The Chinese people have no freedom of speech, no right to assemble to petition the government (think Tiananmen Square), no right to a political opinion (unless it conforms to the dictatorship’s), no real religious freedom. Look what the dictatorship did to Tibet (a cultural genocide) and now the Uighurs (a physical and cultural genocide. Watch the latest PBS Frontline show). The Chinese people are only a half-step above the poor souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in North Korea.
I live in Switzerland. I started using WeChat when working with a Chinese design company. It is simply brilliant. It is extremely convenient for communication, sharing files and organising work. It handles all sorts of file format, reduces the size and transcodes from one format to the other. You don’t even have to be aware of it. Just post, receive and distribute. It is totally clutter-free, transparent and responsive and there is a great (yet super simple) client for MacBooks. After a while I started noticing that quite a few of my colleges in Switzerland also love WeChat. It is not widely used here, so we (have to) stick to WhatsApp, Instagram and Facebook. But I wouldn’t mind doing all in WeChat. It really combines simplicity and ease of use in a hugely versatile, powerful and fun application. Shame it is also so problematic.
All of those glowing praises without acknowledging that everything you did or said while using it went straight to the totalitarian government in China. What, you don’t care
Just explaining, why WeChat is so popular. BTW, I forgot to mention the built in translation engine. It allows seamless communication and chats in languages you are not familiar with. Coming back to your point: Of course you are right. But I tend to treat all electronic communication with the assumption that private and state bodies have the technology to listen in. And I keep in mind that any state, regardless how liberal and democratic, can turn totalitarian. Something we painfully experienced (and allowed to happen as a society) not that long ago in Europe. What ever you do and say online could one day be turned against you. So I try to keep that in mind, regardless of the application or system I‘m using.
The U.S. under the Patriot Act leads the world in spying on people. We are #1! MAGA!
The China nonsense is just a diversion from the corruption so rampant here. But, fear and hate sell and corrupt politicians use it effectively.
Comments
Apparently you're no student of history. "...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." You want me to believe you have no understanding of the Judeo-Christian roots in our fledgling confederation of states when the Constitution was written, nor how those beliefs influenced what it contained?
"In God We Trust" used to mean far more then it does today, and holding your hand on the Bible while swearing to tell the truth in a Court of Law was almost universally accepted and generally honored in the US.
So NO, religious beliefs aren't being "imposed" on you more today than in the past 250 years. On the contrary, the open ridicule (It appears you're in that happy group) of those who believe in a higher power than themselves seems to be at an all-time high.
Sometimes sooner... Sometimes later. In this case, it was too late for about 30,000 people.
The free market doesn't serve in emergency conditions well. It isn't geared for that.
Nice rewrite of history!
The founding fathers deliberately kept both king and religion out of the Constitution. But, the Trumpers have never let facts and truth interfere with their agenda
That quote is from our Declaration of Independence, an acknowledgement that whether Christian or Diest (my personal religious leaning and not ashamed to say so) or Jewish or whatever, God "the Creator" was the grantor of our most basic human rights! It was not the founder's place to question what God granted and that is ensconsed in our founding documents. Good grief. Are you truly an American citizen? That's a very honest question.
You spend a lot of words on tearing down our institutions and sowing mistrust of courts to government to schools to churches while at the same time very supportive of a certain foreign country, and quite willing to overlook their various government mistakes, misstatements, and infringement of certain liberties we in the West consider basic human rights. I'm not convinced you don't have some ulterior motive behind your posts. Maybe you're just an unhappy citizen or maybe... I dunno. Something sounds off but I'll accept you are who you claim to be as I cannot prove otherwise.
I also resent your constant suggestions that I'm a "Trumper" by disagreeing with you since you've been personally advised more than once I did not vote for him nor a supporter of him now. Better that you not say anything than be dishonest in replying.
Carlin said it best:
“Think of how it all started: America was founded by slave owners who informed us, 'All men are created equal.' All 'men,' except Indians, n-----s, and women. Remember, the founders were a small group of unelected, white, male, land-holding slave owners who also, by the way, suggested their class be the only one allowed to vote. To my mind, that is what's known as being stunningly--and embarrassingly--full of sh#t.” ― George Carlin
BTW @ronn ; I'm sure you believe you already "know all about it" but this link might offer a little added insight anyway:
https://www.npr.org/2011/07/06/137647715/weekly-standard-founding-fathers-opposed-slavery
An excerpt for those too busy to be bothered learning:
'In Lincoln's famous 1860 Cooper Union speech, he noted that of the 39 framers of the Constitution, 22 had voted on the question of banning slavery in the new territories. Twenty of the 22 voted to ban it, while another one of the Constitution's framers--George Washington--signed into law legislation enforcing the Northwest Ordinance that banned slavery in the Northwest Territories. At Cooper Union, Lincoln also quoted Thomas Jefferson, who had argued in favor of Virginia emancipation: "It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation, and deportation, peaceably, and in such slow degrees, as that the evil will wear off insensibly...."
To be sure, the Founding Fathers weren't abolitionists. But they were overwhelmingly antislavery. "George Carlin was not as knowledgable about our history as Lincoln, but yeah Carlin was surely a whole lot funnier.
Anyway, now that yet another thread has been dragged down the political rabbithole, and again by one particular poster who hates Trump and misses no opportunity to turn the discussion in that direction, I'm out on further comment. This has drifted so far off topic that I'll leave it to other members to put it back on the right path. If anyone has forgotten what that path is it's in the headline.
Jefferson believed that Jesus was 'the most profound philosopher' in the history of the world -- but not a God.
And, a Trumper is anybody who supports Trump and his corruption.
The U.S. under the Patriot Act leads the world in spying on people. We are #1! MAGA!
The China nonsense is just a diversion from the corruption so rampant here. But, fear and hate sell and corrupt politicians use it effectively.