OpenCore Computer attempts sale of Hackintosh systems

Posted:
in macOS edited June 2020
OpenCore Computer has launched its first desktop computer billed as a "zero-compromise Hackintosh" preinstalled with macOS Catalina and Windows 10 Pro, a project highly likely to face intense scrutiny from Apple's legal team.




The "Velociraptor" is the first of OpenCore Computer's range of desktop computers that operate as a Hackintosh. Boasting high levels of performance, the company is pitching the system at people who want the potential speed of a Hackintosh, but without needing to build or set it up for themselves.

The initial Velociraptor includes AMD Ryzen 8-core, 12-core, or 16-core processors with up to 64 gigabytes of memory, and up to an AMD Radeon VII GPU with 16GB of HBM2 memory, as first reported by MacRumors. Inside the Mini-ITX case are a pair of SSDs, each holding macOS and Windows installations and being up to 2 terabytes in capacity, as well as a third hard drive up to 4 terabytes in size.

In Geekbench 5 tests, OpenCore Computer claims the Velociraptor outpaces all MacBooks and Macs except the Mac Pro in multi-core testing, but even beats the Mac Pro in single-core tests.

The macOS installation is "professionally installed using the OpenCore bootloader," with all features including Hand Off and Continuity working like a regular Mac. However, the company does warn that, though it dues run most Adobe Creative Cloud apps right out of the box, the exception is Lightroom CC, but Lightroom Classic works fine.

The Velociraptor is being sold for $2,199 at its base price. The T-Rex, with support for up to 64-core CPUs and 256GB of memory, and the higher-performance Megalodon are said to be launching within months with prices yet to be announced.

Legal Issues

It is questionable as to whether Apple will allow OpenCore Computer to offer its current product, as selling computers running macOS that aren't an official Mac or MacBook violates Apple's end-user license agreement. This makes it extremely probable that lawyers working for Apple will step in to try and halt sales.

Apple already has some precedent on its side, securing a permanent injunction against clone Mac producer Psystar in 2019 following a 17-month lawsuit. As well as preventing Psystar from selling or distributing derivative works of Mac OS X, and circumventing Apple's measures to prevent the operating system from being copied, the firm also had to pay out $2.7 million in damages and attorneys fees.

Given the circumstances of the new product's sale, it appears that OpenCore Computer could face a similar fate in the near future, though it seemingly acknowledges this is a probability. On attempting a purchase, the site store advises the "convoluted macOS EULA agreement" limits its payment options to Bitcoin.

Furthermore, the OpenCore Computer name is also causing its own issues. In a statement to MacRumors, OpenCore Bootloader group Acidanthera denounced the use of the OpenCore name by the company, as well as distancing themselves from its activity.

"It is shocking and disgusting that some dishonest people we do not even know dare to use the name and logo of our bootloader, OpenCore, as a matter of promotion in some illicit criminal scam," the statement reads. "Be warned, that we a nohow affiliated with these people and strongly ask everyone by all means to never approach them. Be safe."

Better to DIY

While the legal nature of creating a Hackintosh is generally murky, there are a variety of projects online that can assist or guide intrepid computer users down the route of making their own version. Making a Hackintosh isn't an easy task, with hobbyist tinkerers most likely to do so, and there is also the prospect of Apple potentially rending an installation useless following an update.

Given the potential for data loss, software incompatibility, and stability issues, let alone the total lack of support from Apple, it is not advisable for a business or other major entities to go down the Hackintosh route.

That being said, Apple generally leaves creators of Hackintosh projects alone. In cases such as Psystar, where it can potentially harm Mac sales in a significant way, Apple's lawyers will step in, but home tinkerers are unlikely to face such scrutiny.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 34
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,634member
    No mention of Pystar being closed down by Apple in around 2006-2007?

    This sort of shows there's quite a lot of demand for an xMac, but it would be hard to price it reasonably without eating the lucrative high end iMac/Mac Pro sales. Which is partly why they won't do it. All this bluster by Apple about Macs being very green, and you have to throw away half (or all) of the computer if a key breaks, you need more RAM, or you need to fix something. The screen on my 2012 iMac works perfectly, but I had no choice but to buy a new display with the new iMac. I have an Apple LED Display circa 2006, still works great and has gone through 3 Mac upgrades. That's a lot more green than throwing things out every 5 or 6 years because it's an AIO unit.

    This is even more relevant now with Moore's law broken and computers being replaced much less frequently, it means replacing broken parts rather than the whole machine is worth it since a new computer isn't the speed jump it once was.
    edited June 2020 lkruppwilliamlondondewme
  • Reply 2 of 34
    vannygeevannygee Posts: 61member
    These clowns are selling an x570/b450 motherboard in a mediocre case for a base price of $2000.
    I would much rather give you that $2000 for a MacPro-like case. And then just let me choose an AMD cpu, that's all I'm asking.

    $5000 for the MacPro with these inferior Xeons and 580s is sad and is pushing us away.

    For that much throw in a 3900X and a 5700XT. Charge another 1000 for the 3950X, 3000 for the 3970X as far as I care. Please do this for the pros that don't want to go through the hassle of a hackintosh and want AppleCare, want all security updates and want the engineering that goes into your cases. 1.5TB of RAM? Give an Epyc option.

    Do this for the next 5 years until ARM can compete.
    williamlondoncpsro
  • Reply 3 of 34
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,036member
    vannygee said:
    These clowns are selling an x570/b450 motherboard in a mediocre case for a base price of $2000.
    I would much rather give you that $2000 for a MacPro-like case. And then just let me choose an AMD cpu, that's all I'm asking.

    $5000 for the MacPro with these inferior Xeons and 580s is sad and is pushing us away.

    For that much throw in a 3900X and a 5700XT. Charge another 1000 for the 3950X, 3000 for the 3970X as far as I care. Please do this for the pros that don't want to go through the hassle of a hackintosh and want AppleCare, want all security updates and want the engineering that goes into your cases. 1.5TB of RAM? Give an Epyc option.

    Do this for the next 5 years until ARM can compete.
    Dear @Vannygee,

    In your dreams. Now go away.

    Sincerely,

    Tim
    williamlondonvannygeekillroyjdb8167
  • Reply 4 of 34
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,010member
    This brings up the question of why Apple is still using Intel CPUs when AMD CPUs are at a minimum comparable in terms of speed and cost. They're both x86 and both can run macOS so why is Apple sticking with Intel?


    williamlondoncpsroelijahglkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 34
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,734member
    This is a scam.  This is why they demand payment in bitcoin.  So you can’t get your money back when they don’t ship.  This is why they don’t care about Apple’s lawyers nor the OpenCore name use concerns etc.  

    This is all my speculation of course.  
    Rayz2016DAalsethhammeroftruthkillroyravnorodomlkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 34
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    This is not fishy at all.

    Some company demanding payment only in bitcoin selling an illegal machine and the company/criminals don't even have a contact address.

    Anybody dumb enough to order one of these deserves to be scammed.
    killroylkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 34
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    rob53 said:
    This brings up the question of why Apple is still using Intel CPUs when AMD CPUs are at a minimum comparable in terms of speed and cost. They're both x86 and both can run macOS so why is Apple sticking with Intel?


    They're not. Haven't you heard that Apple is going ARM?

    And from what I've read about AMD hackintoshes, there are some compatibility issues with AMD running certain software.
    killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 34
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,634member
    If they hadn't preinstalled Catalina there would be no license violation, the violation would be up to the end user and there would be no legal case to prevent sale.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 9 of 34
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 993member
    lkrupp said:
    vannygee said:
    These clowns are selling an x570/b450 motherboard in a mediocre case for a base price of $2000.
    I would much rather give you that $2000 for a MacPro-like case. And then just let me choose an AMD cpu, that's all I'm asking.

    $5000 for the MacPro with these inferior Xeons and 580s is sad and is pushing us away.

    For that much throw in a 3900X and a 5700XT. Charge another 1000 for the 3950X, 3000 for the 3970X as far as I care. Please do this for the pros that don't want to go through the hassle of a hackintosh and want AppleCare, want all security updates and want the engineering that goes into your cases. 1.5TB of RAM? Give an Epyc option.

    Do this for the next 5 years until ARM can compete.
    Dear @Vannygee,

    In your dreams. Now go away.

    Sincerely,

    Tim
    You must not be a very good pro if you’re complaining about $5000. Seriously, you can write that shit off as a business expense. Go bother some other forum. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 34
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    elijahg said:
    No mention of Pystar being closed down by Apple in around 2006-2007?

    This sort of shows there's quite a lot of demand for an xMac, but it would be hard to price it reasonably without eating the lucrative high end iMac/Mac Pro sales. Which is partly why they won't do it. All this bluster by Apple about Macs being very green, and you have to throw away half (or all) of the computer if a key breaks, you need more RAM, or you need to fix something. The screen on my 2012 iMac works perfectly, but I had no choice but to buy a new display with the new iMac. I have an Apple LED Display circa 2006, still works great and has gone through 3 Mac upgrades. That's a lot more green than throwing things out every 5 or 6 years because it's an AIO unit.

    This is even more relevant now with Moore's law broken and computers being replaced much less frequently, it means replacing broken parts rather than the whole machine is worth it since a new computer isn't the speed jump it once was.
    Throwing it out is your choice. You could sell it, or donate it to charity, or send it back to Apple for recycling. 


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 34
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,010member
    apple ][ said:
    rob53 said:
    This brings up the question of why Apple is still using Intel CPUs when AMD CPUs are at a minimum comparable in terms of speed and cost. They're both x86 and both can run macOS so why is Apple sticking with Intel?


    They're not. Haven't you heard that Apple is going ARM?

    And from what I've read about AMD hackintoshes, there are some compatibility issues with AMD running certain software.
    Of course I’ve heard Apple is supposed to be going to ARM on laptops/desktops but when? Don’t believe everything people say. In the meantime, why hasn’t Apple considered AMD?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 34
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,634member
    Rayz2016 said:
    elijahg said:
    No mention of Pystar being closed down by Apple in around 2006-2007?

    This sort of shows there's quite a lot of demand for an xMac, but it would be hard to price it reasonably without eating the lucrative high end iMac/Mac Pro sales. Which is partly why they won't do it. All this bluster by Apple about Macs being very green, and you have to throw away half (or all) of the computer if a key breaks, you need more RAM, or you need to fix something. The screen on my 2012 iMac works perfectly, but I had no choice but to buy a new display with the new iMac. I have an Apple LED Display circa 2006, still works great and has gone through 3 Mac upgrades. That's a lot more green than throwing things out every 5 or 6 years because it's an AIO unit.

    This is even more relevant now with Moore's law broken and computers being replaced much less frequently, it means replacing broken parts rather than the whole machine is worth it since a new computer isn't the speed jump it once was.
    Throwing it out is your choice. You could sell it, or donate it to charity, or send it back to Apple for recycling. 


    Or I could upgrade the CPU/motherboard and not be forced to buy another screen, case, keyboard, mouse, GPU and SSD I don't need.
    edited June 2020 williamlondonOfer
  • Reply 13 of 34
    Yay buying one!
    williamlondon
  • Reply 14 of 34
    williamlondonwilliamlondon Posts: 1,115member
    "In the meantime, why hasn’t Apple considered AMD?"
    Exclusive sweetheart deal with Intel precludes them from buying AMD?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 34
    lam92103lam92103 Posts: 81member
    rob53 said:
    This brings up the question of why Apple is still using Intel CPUs when AMD CPUs are at a minimum comparable in terms of speed and cost. They're both x86 and both can run macOS so why is Apple sticking with Intel?


    Drivers. Hackintosh'es aim to replicate real Mac Configs, so as to minimize any incompatibilities. 

    In the case of AMD sure the CPU is x86, but things like SATA Controller, Northbridge/Southbridge, LAN, Sound, will all differ for AMD machines and need drivers.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 34
    williamlondonwilliamlondon Posts: 1,115member

    elijahg said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    elijahg said:
    No mention of Pystar being closed down by Apple in around 2006-2007?

    This sort of shows there's quite a lot of demand for an xMac, but it would be hard to price it reasonably without eating the lucrative high end iMac/Mac Pro sales. Which is partly why they won't do it. All this bluster by Apple about Macs being very green, and you have to throw away half (or all) of the computer if a key breaks, you need more RAM, or you need to fix something. The screen on my 2012 iMac works perfectly, but I had no choice but to buy a new display with the new iMac. I have an Apple LED Display circa 2006, still works great and has gone through 3 Mac upgrades. That's a lot more green than throwing things out every 5 or 6 years because it's an AIO unit.

    This is even more relevant now with Moore's law broken and computers being replaced much less frequently, it means replacing broken parts rather than the whole machine is worth it since a new computer isn't the speed jump it once was.
    Throwing it out is your choice. You could sell it, or donate it to charity, or send it back to Apple for recycling. 


    Or I could upgrade the CPU/motherboard and not be forced to buy another screen, case, keyboard, mouse, GPU and SSD I don't need.
    And you're just *now* realising this? ;-)
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 34
    lam92103lam92103 Posts: 81member
    Apple should really tap into this market by releasing a bare - Mac Pro, which can use consumer hardware. It should have a small 128GB SSD that has the OSX recovery on it, and that can be used to do a bare minimum OSX install. People just buy that and put in their own CPU/RAM/GPU/HDD etc. Provide a QVL and we should be good to go.

    Another option could be PCI-E compute cartridges, which come with a CPU, small SSD & RAM in one package

    It will provide people with the best of both worlds without compromise and without having to sell a kidney
    edited June 2020 williamlondonrossb2watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 34
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,634member
    lam92103 said:
    Apple should really tap into this market by releasing a bare - Mac Pro, which can use consumer hardware. It should have a small 128GB SSD that has the OSX recovery on it, and that can be used to do a bare minimum OSX install. People just buy that and put in their own CPU/RAM/GPU/HDD etc. Provide a QVL and we should be good to go.

    Another option could be PCI-E compute cartridges, which come with a CPU, small SSD & RAM in one package

    It will provide people with the best of both worlds without compromise and without having to sell a kidney
    Yeah but how will they keep their lucrative iMac sales if there's a box that's potentially more powerful for say $1000? 
  • Reply 19 of 34
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,211member
    chadbag said:
    This is a scam.  This is why they demand payment in bitcoin.  So you can’t get your money back when they don’t ship.  This is why they don’t care about Apple’s lawyers nor the OpenCore name use concerns etc.  

    This is all my speculation of course.  
    apple ][ said:
    This is not fishy at all.

    Some company demanding payment only in bitcoin selling an illegal machine and the company/criminals don't even have a contact address.

    Anybody dumb enough to order one of these deserves to be scammed.
    Yes that is the most probable case. A pure scam  that will vanish as soon as the first call comes in from someone wondering why their system hasn’t shipped. There is no way in h*** that they will be around more than a few weeks, a couple of months tops. Apple will shoot them down hard, unless they fold and escape with their stolen profits . That’s IMO the only two possible outcomes. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 34
    ednlednl Posts: 61member
    elijahg said:
    Yeah but how will they keep their lucrative iMac sales if there's a box that's potentially more powerful for say $1000?

    Profitable, perhaps, but "lucrative"? I think by now everything else is a rounding error compared to iPhone + iOS app store.
    watto_cobra
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