Apple unveils plans to ditch Intel chips in Macs for 'Apple Silicon'

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  • Reply 141 of 342
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,111member

    nubus said:
    nubus said:
    1. The Mac Pro is PCIe 3.0 - which simply isn't fast enough. Even budget computers from AMD are now running PCIe 4. The Mac Pro 2019 was built using tech that was obsolete on launch. You can get a B550 motherboard with a PCIe 4.0 SSD for 50-100% better performance on storage.
    PCIe-4 support depends on Intel, not on Apple. Show us any Xeon that supports PCIe-4 yet. Your point is irrelevant.
    Apple could have gone PCIe 4.0 with AMD (which they use exclusively for GPUs) but decided to deliver obsolete technology. Isn't that relevant?
    OK, performance and architecture differences put aside, how many Ryzens AMD could deliver matching Apple's specifications? This is a matter of quality and production scale. Even Intel can barely fulfill Apple's demands, if you melt a motherboard every couple of years the speed of your PCIe 4 won't help. Mac Pro is not a DIY home tinkerer's hobby.
    mtrivisowatto_cobra
  • Reply 142 of 342
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,716member
    Best WWDC keynote in years. Straight to the point, no interacting with a life audience, pre-recorded is they doctor get it right without hiccups and keep it tightly scripted.  They should do it this way every year, with apologies to the live audience who would love to be present.  
    Couldn't agree more. Snappy, to the point, less of Tim  . I love Tim but he is not a great stage act and what there was this time seemed so much fresher. No performance anxiety, I guess. I hope they continue with this type of major announcements in the future. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 143 of 342

    lkrupp said:

    AppleZulu said:
    Remember all those peanuts in the peanut gallery who were cursing Tim Cook because Apple was "abandoning the Mac?" 
    They are abandoning the Mac. The new machines will be just be iPads with a few tweaks. 
    ORLY? 

    Ever see an iPad run Maya?

    Quit with the Hater shit, willya? It gets really old. Take it to MacRumors; it’s all they’ve got there.
    AppleZulunarwhaltmaychiamacky the mackywatto_cobra
  • Reply 144 of 342
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,213member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    Maybe I missed it, but I haven't heard them say ARM once.  I wonder if that means anything.
    It’s not their brand. They’re Apple-designed chips. Why would they?
    Because that's the name of the architecture, obviously.  They have no issue using the names of other brands.



    I also looked for an image with UNIX and POSIX on it, because Steve certainly wasn't afraid of name dropping those non-Apple brands that Apple built products on too.  Image search came up short though, annoyingly.

    Everyone else, yes I get that "Apple Silicon" is ARM based, but I found the fact that they didn't name check it interesting.  Maybe a greater divergence is on the cards.
    I should've just stuck with "they're Apple-designed chips". The Intel chips were wholly Intel products. These are Apple products and consumers do not care what the underlying architecture is. I'm in the middle of the Platforms State of the Union which is in progress, but haven't noticed them say "ARM" at any point during this either.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 145 of 342

    Peza said:
    Well this was the best WEDC keynote they’ve ever done, probably the best use of that new theatre since it was built too.
    I do like the new Apple Watch, iPhone and iPads features, even if they are ripped straight from Android.. 

    But.. I think Apple could have just killed the Mac, they are asking a lot from development houses here. And when your total market share globally is in single digits, I’m not sure many will comply, most did it for Intel as that’s the platform PCs use anyway, so it was easy, but now asking them to make effectively two apps, one for PC’s and one for Macs and iPads and iPhones, I’m not so sure many will want to do that, or, you’ll end up with a severely less capable app from the iPhone running in your new Max with Apple silicone.
    You seem to have zero understanding of this.

    And if Apple lifted a feature or two from Android (Citations, please!), who cares? Android lifted the entire OS design from Apple!

    Adobe and MS are already in; so that covers about 90% of the software running on all Personal Computers of all Platforms combined.

    And Apple has made it super easy, with great transition tools, a realistic “few days” timeline for most recompiles/ports, and what looks to be a bitchin’ Translation framework baked into the OS.

    I think you need to rethink your comments.
    SpamSandwichnarwhalfastasleeptmayroundaboutnowDeelronRayz2016chiapatchythepiratemacky the macky
  • Reply 146 of 342
    nubus said:

    We didn't see any benchmarks comparing Apple Silicon to Intel and we didn't get any info on power consumption. It was just "this can run on Apple Silicon in 1080p" without showing frame rates. 
    That’s because this isn’t the silicon we’ll actually see in the new Macs. The demos (all of them during the entire Keynote!) were done on their prototype Development Platform, which was essentially an iPad Pro with an XDR Display running a recompiled version of macOS. Benchmarks at this point would be beyond pointless.

    With all that in mind, I am super-impressed, and you should be, too...
    narwhalfastasleepJWSCtmayroundaboutnowDeelronRayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 147 of 342
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,213member

    Peza said:

    macxpress said:
    No word on Windows support? That's gonna be a deal breaker for some.
    Ima not sure why they didn’t say anything about Windows virtualization, but they demoed enough Intel-native apps to show you that current Windows virtualization software should continue to run on Apple Silicon machines...
    Yes, but... strangely enough when you had Craig I think talking, when you saw the desktop it also has Parallels shrunk down running Windows.. in the lower left hand corner, that’s what it looked like to me anyway.
    That's the Parallels Desktop logo.


    edited June 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 148 of 342
    hattig said:
    lkrupp said:

    AppleZulu said:
    Remember all those peanuts in the peanut gallery who were cursing Tim Cook because Apple was "abandoning the Mac?" 
    They are abandoning the Mac. The new machines will be just be iPads with a few tweaks. 
    No, the Mac is about Mac OS, and this is running Mac OS. Here we have a quad-core A12Z running at least acceptably with native x86 software, nevermind what was running natively. A 12 core A14Z with higher TDP is going to be even better.

    Or should we be running on extremely fast 68000 derivatives still?
    Howabout a 64 Core 6502?!? That would blaze! 😂
    anonconformistwatto_cobra
  • Reply 149 of 342
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,213member
    melgross said:
    Unlike what the article says, Apple didn’t say what the machines they were using for their demos had in the way of RAM or storage. They did say how much would be in the developer machines. And I would also like to point out that the iPad Pro has 6GB RAM, not 16GB, so the developer machines are not outfitted the same. That’s not surprising, because the Mac needs more resources than iOS devices.
    16GB in the About This Mac screen they said they used for the demos, and assuming it's the same dev kit they said they're distributing, it's 512GB of storage. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 150 of 342
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    melgross said:

    johnbear said:
    That 10-year or older 720p webcam they haven’t changed in the 2020 MacBook pros but they want to change the cpu to an inferior product 
    There you are again! Raawwwhrhr! Get off of here you little troll!
    Yeah, that’s exactly what he is. If I was still a mod I would talk to him about it.
    I was more so making fun of the typical troll dropping what they think is an inflammatory remark in the comment section and then waiting for responses.
    Really?
  • Reply 151 of 342
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member

    Best WWDC keynote in years. Straight to the point, no interacting with a life audience, pre-recorded is they doctor get it right without hiccups and keep it tightly scripted.  They should do it this way every year, with apologies to the live audience who would love to be present.  
    I have to agree. I don’t need a “laugh track” to know if something is funny and I don’t need an applauding audience to know something is cool.
    No, but the live audience was so nice. It was interesting to see them reach. Sometimes when something was talked about, they hardly reacted at all, and at other times they were ecstatic.
    JWSC
  • Reply 152 of 342
    karmadave said:
    Fortunately for Apple the Mac is a small portion of their overall revenue
    Judging from Wall Street’s reaction to this news, I’d say that is about to change (AAPL up by nearly $30 over the past week or so on the rumor and the actual news! When was the last time you saw AAPL go up after a WWDC Keynote???)
    narwhalfastasleeptmayJWSCDeelronrundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 153 of 342
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,213member
    Why would Apple even build MacBooks or iMacs anymore! They will probably build larger screen iPads! Cook has been a fan of the iPad as a computer replacement anyway! It appears that the Apple computer line up will be just a few iPads and iPhones! Mac Pro might still have a Intel Xeon Chips for a brief time but I do not see the pro line up existing but a few years! Apple computers will not exist much longer! All Tim Cook wants is a mobile device environment with limited pro features! Apple wants to go into services as well! It’s all about sales margins! Cook claims innovation but it really is about money! Apple is not dead but will be totally different in a few years!
    HAHAHAHA APPLE IS DOOMED.

    You didn't even watch one minute of the keynote, did you?
    narwhalmacky the mackywatto_cobra
  • Reply 154 of 342
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    melgross said:

    Best WWDC keynote in years. Straight to the point, no interacting with a life audience, pre-recorded is they doctor get it right without hiccups and keep it tightly scripted.  They should do it this way every year, with apologies to the live audience who would love to be present.  
    I have to agree. I don’t need a “laugh track” to know if something is funny and I don’t need an applauding audience to know something is cool.
    No, but the live audience was so nice. It was interesting to see them reach. Sometimes when something was talked about, they hardly reacted at all, and at other times they were ecstatic.
    When it was the developers who were mic’ed it was fun.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 155 of 342
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,213member

    WWDC was a very boring and a major disappointment because no hardware was announced as rumored! I fell asleep watching this 1 1/2 hour of the Craig Federighi stand up comedy audition! I do not trust anything this software engineer claims because anything Apple tries with software always does not work in the beginning until several updates later! Time to look at another computer brand because Apple is going to destroy their already limited line up!
    They rarely release hardware at WWDC. On the contrary, I think they knocked it out of the Apple Park across the board. Craig is by far their best presenter. I've never been more excited for all of the platform updates. "always does not work in the beginning" — citation needed
    narwhalroundaboutnowmtrivisowatto_cobra
  • Reply 156 of 342
    melgross said:
    Unlike what the article says, Apple didn’t say what the machines they were using for their demos had in the way of RAM or storage. They did say how much would be in the developer machines. And I would also like to point out that the iPad Pro has 6GB RAM, not 16GB, so the developer machines are not outfitted the same. That’s not surprising, because the Mac needs more resources than iOS devices.
    Good point; but since they obviously had this transition in mind when they did the A12Z, I submit they designed an External memory bus into the SoC, allowing the internal RAM and Flash to be supplanted/replaced with external resources.

    Many Microcontrollers have supported such an expansion bus for decades; in fact, before EPROM and flash-based microcontrollers were the norm, it was the only way to do a “Development Version” of most microcontrollers.

    Afterall, when you’ve got a BGA package with a few hundred pads, what’s another 96 or so for an expansion bus?
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 157 of 342
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,213member

    sevenfeet said:
    The presentation also put a stake in the heart of AMD in that Apple may not need them for advanced graphics either, but that remains to be seen.  We've already seen the Mac Pros accelerator card which is probably a bunch of custom design GPUs.  That kind of architecture is probably just the beginning.  Someone earlier questioned if Apple will have advanced ray-tracing like Nvidia and AMD are doing now.  Hard to say, but i wouldn't bet against Apple.
    I'd say they're going to go with their own right off the bat. Consider the fact they're already driving the 6K XDR from the demo Mac, and this slide from the Platforms State of the Union where they specifically called out better Graphics as an advantage to the switch (and mentioned gaming, specifically). They also demoed Cinema 4D and some other games. 4:4:4 video to iPad connected by Sidecar. All of this points to them cutting the AMD cord, I think.

    https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/102/

     




    EDIT: They also demoed Unity running native on Arm and compiling a Universal 2 app for Intel & Apple Silicon. Specifically called out using Apple's GPU.

    AMD is toast on the Mac.

    edited June 2020 narwhalJWSCroundaboutnowrundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 158 of 342
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,637member
    Just finished viewing the Platform State of the Union. I’m blown away by the execution strategy by Apple on this transition. I guess we now know what all those tens of thousands of Apple devs have been doing for the past few years while we’ve been commiserating about implementation nits on Apple’s current platforms. They’ve been busy and focused. 

    One thing I’ve noticed with this year’s WWDC so far is the freakishly flawless presentations. These have all obviously been post-processed and edited to remove all idiosyncrasies and dead air space. In some cases I think they’ve actually sped up the cadence on certain speakers to fit the time window. Not a big deal, I guess. Craig did get to throw in a semi-joke about the seagulls social distancing. The production quality is undoubtedly top notch but some of the presenters come across as somewhat robotic. In terms of information transference, Apple has nailed it, but if you’re looking for the human touch you’ll have to make sure to get in on the sign-ups for next year’s WWDC to get your warm & fuzzy feelings back. 

    Kudos to Apple for making the best of a difficult situation.
    fastasleepJWSCroundaboutnowStrangeDayscanukstormwatto_cobra
  • Reply 159 of 342
    crimguy said:
    I am also skeptical.  All of this talk about virtualization, Rosetta, etc.  Very reminiscent of when we went from PowerPC to Intel.  The difference is, going to Intel was a boon because suddenly we had Macs that could run linux, Windows, etc.  It was great, and I promptly tossed my Windows machine out a window.

    Now?  We're going in the opposite direction, hoping all of these virtualization technologies won't take a bit performance hit (I've got news. They always do!).  He's talking about getting linux running on a mac, which is great, but are we talking about custom ARM builds?

    And graphics performance?  Anyone here really think Apple is going to magically be able to compete with nVidia hardware, with on-the-fly ray tracing support? I find it hard to swallow.  We will need to get AMD or nVidia to create drivers for OSX I suppose if we have their gpu's at all.

    Just so I'm not sounding too negative, I am very excited for the common development across iOS and OSX.  This should bring a ton of software across both platforms.  
    The first Rosetta was not built by Apple, and was obviously a only a stopgap to keep Photoshop and ProTools on the Mac until the Publishers could be arm-twisted into porting them to Intel OS X.

    This is night and day different. If there is a performance hit, it appears negligible.

    nVidia doesn’t own a patent on hardware ray-tracing; at least not on the concept. Apple will catch up to that in a couple of years, IMHO.

    And you know what comes with a ton of software? A ton of marketshare, that’s what! And you know what comes with a ton of marketshare? A ton of new Developers, that’s what! And you know what comes with a ton of new Developers? A ton of new software, that’s what! And you know what comes with a ton of new software...
    edited June 2020 asdasdfastasleeproundaboutnowRayz2016macky the mackyrundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 160 of 342
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,586member
    crowley said:
    If Rosetta is generating a translation of x86 apps on install, does that mean the storage for those apps is going to balloon (until they get recompiled, obvs)?

    Barely... binary code is usually a fraction of the actual size of an app. Most space is taken up by resources (images, videos, etc.), not code.
    razorpitfastasleepJWSCroundaboutnowjdb8167watto_cobra
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