Apple unveils plans to ditch Intel chips in Macs for 'Apple Silicon'

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  • Reply 181 of 342
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,714member
    mjtomlin said:
    Peza said:
    mjtomlin said:
    macxpress said:
    No word on Windows support? That's gonna be a deal breaker for some.

    Why do people think that whenever something new comes out, everything old just stops working. Those people can just buy an Intel Mac, which will still be supported for years. If there aren’t any new ones sold, they can always buy a used one cheaper.

    Apples idea of years seems to be 5. Yes it’s correct as it’s ‘years’, but I don’t know many people who buy new Macs every 5 years.

    5 years!?

    My Mac mini from 2012 is running the latest version of macOS... that’s umm... give me a second to do the arithmetic... 8 years.
    Historically, Apple Hardware has had a longer useful and supported life than PCs. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 182 of 342
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,319member
    lkrupp said:

    AppleZulu said:
    Remember all those peanuts in the peanut gallery who were cursing Tim Cook because Apple was "abandoning the Mac?" 
    They are abandoning the Mac. The new machines will be just be iPads with a few tweaks. 
    What drugs are you currently mixing?
    macplusplusfastasleepmelgrosswatto_cobra
  • Reply 183 of 342
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,319member

    apple1991 said:
    Apple Silicon = touch based Macs? 
    Nope. They could have any time, but there’s still no reason to. Moving your hands off the keyboard to reach out to a screen hinders productivity. 
    macplusplusasdasdwatto_cobra
  • Reply 184 of 342
    Riker said:

    Quit with the Hater shit, willya? It gets really old. Take it to MacRumors; it’s all they’ve got there.
    There are opinions in the world that differ from yours.
    True; but it does get tiresome. They all allege the same ol’ stuff; but never back it up with even a scintilla of fact.

    And there is a difference between allegation and opinion.
    StrangeDayschiarundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 184 of 342
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,319member
    MplsP said:
    mjtomlin said:
    Peza said:
    mjtomlin said:
    macxpress said:
    No word on Windows support? That's gonna be a deal breaker for some.

    Why do people think that whenever something new comes out, everything old just stops working. Those people can just buy an Intel Mac, which will still be supported for years. If there aren’t any new ones sold, they can always buy a used one cheaper.

    Apples idea of years seems to be 5. Yes it’s correct as it’s ‘years’, but I don’t know many people who buy new Macs every 5 years.

    5 years!?

    My Mac mini from 2012 is running the latest version of macOS... that’s umm... give me a second to do the arithmetic... 8 years.
    Historically, Apple Hardware has had a longer useful and supported life than PCs. 
    Agreed. I ran my 2011 iMac for 8 years before replacing it. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 186 of 342
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,319member
    Remember when everyone was handwringing over open source software getting cut off? That's not happening.

    Yup. Some joker recently tried claiming Cook was anti open-source and they lamented the good ol’ days of Jobs as if he were a champion of open. lol. 
    edited June 2020 fastasleeppatchythepirateJWSCwatto_cobra
  • Reply 187 of 342
    Xed said:
    longfang said:
    beng said:
    So, will Rosetta 2 run 32 bit apps?
    Why would it when current OSX doesn’t.
    Now that they have Rosetta 2 it better support 16-bit Motorola processors, too!
    ...and 8 bit 6502 and 16 bit 65816, too!

    if it doesn’t have full Apple IIgs Compatibility, I’m
    moving to Windows! 🤣
    DAalsethRayz2016chiaright_said_fredraoulduke42watto_cobra
  • Reply 188 of 342
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,319member

    entropys said:
    Why would Apple even build MacBooks or iMacs anymore! They will probably build larger screen iPads! Cook has been a fan of the iPad as a computer replacement anyway! It appears that the Apple computer line up will be just a few iPads and iPhones! Mac Pro might still have a Intel Xeon Chips for a brief time but I do not see the pro line up existing but a few years! Apple computers will not exist much longer! All Tim Cook wants is a mobile device environment with limited pro features! Apple wants to go into services as well! It’s all about sales margins! Cook claims innovation but it really is about money! Apple is not dead but will be totally different in a few years!
    The iPad is not a computer replacement. It is a computer.
    I think in many ways this is a takeover of the Mac by the iPad. At present the dev macs will actually be using the iPad SOC (A12z). It is certainly freeing things up and removal some of the power/thermal limitations, but there is no reason that there will not be a lot of interoperatibility of software on ipadOS 14 and macOS 11. The main difference in the end will be power and UI.

    And what could it lead too? More powerful software on iPad. On the desktop, a touch screen DeskPad (aka MS Studio done right). Personally I think it might be the end of the Mac as we know it.
    Why? There's nothing to suggest at this point that the Mac hardware/UI experience is going away or being supplanted by iPadOS and touch hardware only. I seriously don't understand how people can conclude this is the end of Mac when it's so clearly obvious to anyone with eyes and ears that they're stoked to make far better, more powerful Macs that exist alongside the iOS/iPadOS experience, now with more shared UX traits and cross-development advantages. 

    I mean sure, it's the "end of the Mac as we know it" as it has been with every major shift of the platform. Moving from a 9" black and white screen to a 13" color monitor was the end of the Mac as I first knew it. This is going to be a huge leap forward in the evolution of the Mac, and I could not be more here for it.
    Bingo. This guy gets it! Lord people love to panic. 
    macplusplusraoulduke42watto_cobra
  • Reply 189 of 342
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,560member
    Best WWDC keynote in years. Straight to the point, no interacting with a life audience, pre-recorded is they doctor get it right without hiccups and keep it tightly scripted.  They should do it this way every year, with apologies to the live audience who would love to be present.  
    I thought it was overproduced, sterile and lifeless. And the typical American superlative Ken doll acting. Cringe.
    I did like however what they announced, an amazing update.
    They aren't actors or spokesmodels. They are businesspeople and engineers. You want a scintillating performance where the person has you on your feet cheering every minute, you're looking at the wrong people.
    edited June 2020 randominternetpersonRayz2016MplsPwatto_cobra
  • Reply 190 of 342
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Awesome! No more waiting on deadbeat chipmakers.
    There were no deadbeat chip vendors. Apple could have moved to AMD two years ago and have the fastest systems around. 
    Better to move to their own custom chips. Chips which are maximized specifically for Apple’s performance requirements.
    tmaymelgrosswatto_cobra
  • Reply 191 of 342
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,560member
    entropys said:
    Why would Apple even build MacBooks or iMacs anymore! They will probably build larger screen iPads! Cook has been a fan of the iPad as a computer replacement anyway! It appears that the Apple computer line up will be just a few iPads and iPhones! Mac Pro might still have a Intel Xeon Chips for a brief time but I do not see the pro line up existing but a few years! Apple computers will not exist much longer! All Tim Cook wants is a mobile device environment with limited pro features! Apple wants to go into services as well! It’s all about sales margins! Cook claims innovation but it really is about money! Apple is not dead but will be totally different in a few years!
    The iPad is not a computer replacement. It is a computer.
    I think in many ways this is a takeover of the Mac by the iPad. At present the dev macs will actually be using the iPad SOC (A12z). It is certainly freeing things up and removal some of the power/thermal limitations, but there is no reason that there will not be a lot of interoperatibility of software on ipadOS 14 and macOS 11. The main difference in the end will be power and UI.

    And what could it lead too? More powerful software on iPad. On the desktop, a touch screen DeskPad (aka MS Studio done right). Personally I think it might be the end of the Mac as we know it.
    Why? There's nothing to suggest at this point that the Mac hardware/UI experience is going away or being supplanted by iPadOS and touch hardware only. I seriously don't understand how people can conclude this is the end of Mac when it's so clearly obvious to anyone with eyes and ears that they're stoked to make far better, more powerful Macs that exist alongside the iOS/iPadOS experience, now with more shared UX traits and cross-development advantages. 

    I mean sure, it's the "end of the Mac as we know it" as it has been with every major shift of the platform. Moving from a 9" black and white screen to a 13" color monitor was the end of the Mac as I first knew it. This is going to be a huge leap forward in the evolution of the Mac, and I could not be more here for it.
    Correct. macOS evolves. I'm sure someone coming from System 6 or 7 would look at Catalina and say "This isn't a Mac any more". When OX-X came out there were howls of protest and gnashing of teeth, "You are destroying the Mac." Wasn't true then, isn't now. To be honest the changes to some of the software,  I like. They sorely needed updating.
    raoulduke42watto_cobra
  • Reply 192 of 342
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,523member
    Yay, up and running with macOS Big Sur.
     
    roundaboutnowtmayfastasleepmelgrossbikerduderaoulduke42watto_cobra
  • Reply 193 of 342
    XedXed Posts: 1,583member
    MacPro said:
    Yay, up and running with macOS Big Sur.
     
    Did you edit your Menu Bar items or is that how it looks on the right? I have my usual assortment but they are spread out a lot more than I need for use with a mouse cursor. This makes me think that touchscreen Macs are a comin'.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 194 of 342
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,784member
    Tell us your experience with the menu bar. It looked very ipadesque, but customisable.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 195 of 342
    titantigertitantiger Posts: 300member
    Riker said:

    Quit with the Hater shit, willya? It gets really old. Take it to MacRumors; it’s all they’ve got there.
    There are opinions in the world that differ from yours.
    But saying something is your opinion is not some sort of inoculation against criticism.  Opinions need to based in something factual unless we're just talking about your favorite flavor of bubble gum (matters of taste).  You're just saying dumb shit.
    rundhvidmelgrosswatto_cobra
  • Reply 196 of 342
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,111member
    I need time to get used to... the new Finder icon on the Dock  :-/
    edited June 2020 nubuswatto_cobra
  • Reply 197 of 342
    I skimmed the posts here but didn’t see anything here, but Microsoft already has a ARM port of Windows, and perhaps in addition to the Surface Pro there might be other Windows machines that start showing up with arm processors rather than x86.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if some Windows PC manufacturers start moving in the same direction that Apple is going. Maybe with Snapdragon processors rather than their own in-house version but still probably a move we might see in the Windows world too, following Apple’s lead.
    edited June 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 198 of 342
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 1,570member
    nubus said:
    1. Linux compatible but no word on Windows?
    2. If Messages is the most important Mac app and Safari is mainly for Pinterest... then this marks then end of the Mac for corporate use. Tim said PERSONAL computer. Don't expect docks or any focus on knowledge workers beyond group chat. iOS 14 uses AI to organize apps - but macOS doesn't use AI to organize documents or mix them with side panels showing related mails, chats,... that is super disappointing.
    1. The omission of Windows mention was the most eyebrow-raising thing in the demo.

    2. The term “Personal Computer” is a generic term. Give it a rest! 

    This is a transitional version of macOS. They can’t really let macOS shine until it can finally shed the Intel limitations, like no ML Subsystem to do those fancy document organization tricks.
    Apple doesn’t need to sell windows for Microsoft. Do no need to mention. 

    And Apple DID mention virtualization. They didn’t want to give Microsoft the fanfare on Apples historic day. But virtualization includes Linux (similar time the underpinnings if current Mac OS X. 

    But Apple was virtualizing Windows in the power PC era as well. And things have come a very long way since then. 

    What’s interesting is the sparsely detailed graphics that Apple has up. It details:

    notebook and desktop specific CPUs. 

    It also looks to show a performance disparity directly r
    wlated to power consumption. 

    In pro level notebooks and especially desktops, these new CPU/GPU combos are going to be beastly. To the point that Windows based computers won’t be able to keep up in either all out performance OR power efficiency. Not something I would have ever thought possible. This sounds like a very quickly forthcoming paradigm shift in computing. 
    edited June 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 199 of 342
    Peza said:
    If the road this ends up going down means the same apps on a Mac are the same apps on an iPad, then surely Apples PC market share is going to shrink even further, everyone will just buy a much cheaper iPad. 

    I’m not questioning Apples silicone prowess here, I’m questioning if developers will follow them down the path. 
    That would make sense if similarly equipped iPad with keyboard we're cheaper. The choice won't be price it will be the form factor and if you want a desktop.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 200 of 342
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,213member

    I’m amazed they demoed Maya (and gaming) using Rosetta 2. I’m going to guess that 3D/animation apps are all going to be needing to be on Metal already in order to work in Rosetta (or at least work well?) but I’m beyond excited for this!

    Guess we’ll be waiting to see the new iMac, wonder when that’ll launch. 
    They demoed 1080p 60fps low settings and most of the acceleration was coming from the Afterburner integrated components they failed to mention on that motherboard. They mentioned no specs, completely unlike Apple. They showed the barest of stuff working, including that pathetic Maya demo of a wireframe and low graphic non-textured edit view.

    Just take a look at what is on the upcoming Motherboard. Most of the heavy lifting will come from the Afterburner parts and not the CPU/GPU SoC.

    All those specific processors/accelerators are FPGA based. High efficiency audio processor, Cryptography Acceleration, High-performance video editing, Machine Learning accelerators, High quality camera processor, Neural Engine. These are parts of the SoC. These are add-ons that you can't put in a smartphone or an iPad due to the massive batteries in the way. This stuff is bits and pieces on the Motherboard that compensate for the SoC being weak overall.

    You put each one of those in an Intel or especially an AMD system with the Zen 3 and it's 64 core/128 thread max for consumers and you have something that nothing Apple does will ever compete. Apple is doing this to increase their profit margins and further stream line contractual agreements with third parties by no longer being contractually obligated for x amount of years with this or that vendor.

    Apple will save the fully loaded system specs shown below for their most expensive variety of system and reduce the components down to their entry level machines. Profit margins will increase along with prices.

    The most annoying oblique reference is `Advanced silicon packaging.' The industry leader in advanced Silicon Packaging is the Zen line. The Zen 4 is introducing X3D packaging (2.5D & 3D packaging] for their SoC APUs and CPUs. It's obvious that AMD will be soon move to APUs only with Infinity Architecture shared backplane allowing for GPUs to share the same bandwidth/memory. Zen 2 APUs already have lower power design than Intel.

    Zen 3 drops down considerably further. AMD and Apple will be on 5nm and below at the same time.

    Nothing Apple is doing is for lack of options.



    The point was, it was all running under emulation in a 2 year old iPad SoC. 1080p/60fps for a game and a complex poly view in Maya running AT ALL is pretty impressive, given nobody was even sure they'd be able to pull off x86 emulation! In the Platforms State of the Union they showed Cinema 4D running in a textured view. The takeaway is that if these things are running fairly well on this dev kit prototype, and presumably we'll see far better performance on shipping Macs, then it's far more likely we'll be able to use many x86 apps fairly well until they shift to Arm. That's a good thing. What's this about Afterburner? I haven't heard anything about that. As for all the disparate components that can and will be added to these SoCs, it sounds like you're complaining. What's to complain about?

    You put each one of those in an Intel or especially an AMD system with the Zen 3 and it's 64 core/128 thread max for consumers and you have something that nothing Apple does will ever compete
    I don't think I would ever be foolhardy enough to bet against Apple here. You have no idea what they have in their dungeon despite having worked there once decades ago or whatever. Your constant bleating about Apple and AMD is getting tiresome. Clearly that's not the direction they're going now, so are you going to keep beating this horse? It's dead.
    randominternetpersonjdb8167rundhvidmelgrosswatto_cobra
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