DAalseth said: This is precisely why Apple is being investigated for, and will get nailed for, abusive monopolistic behaviour.
I doubt anyone can put together a convincing antitrust case using the 30% cut. It's never been increased, so you'd have to find a way of arguing that the App Store harmed customers right from the start.
The developer should simply make the app of use in a small capacity to all users without the need for a free trial and offer the rest of the content via in-app purchase or subscription. Apple’s rules protect users from spam and annoying sales nesltters.
Basically DownDog want to harvest people’s contact details (from free trial) so they can spam people who don’t want a paid subscription. Apple’ house, Apple’ rules. If you don’t love it, leave it.
“When you’re running down our app store man, you’re walking on the fightin’ side of me”
Apple should start thinking of the US and European governments as the Apple app review review. When an app fails Apple's review, it can't be released to the App Store. When Apple fails the government app review review, it will cost Apple billions of dollars and force it to change its app review process. In other words, Apple should be very very careful right now when rejecting apps for silly arbitrary reasons. It should review its own rejections and ask itself if it is really worth risking the wrath of government oversight? As it stands, Apple is proceeding with maximum hubris and it is going to cost them. Apple would really hate to be broken up but it could happen easily. Imagine if iOS was a separate company from iPad OS and Mac OS and Watch OS.
I’m absolutely with the developer here, on this issue.
So you think developers should have free access to the App Store and Apple should get nothing in return. Because that's what this guy is wanting. He wants the marketing clout of the App Store but doesn't want to pay for it. He offers his app as a free trial but if you want to buy it you go to his website. Yeah, cut Apple out of the deal even though Apple provides the platform, the marketing, the server space. All the developer has to do is upload their app, get it approved and they enjoy all the clout of the world's most valuable marketing platform. The developer doesn't need to advertise, they don't even need a website.
Pethaps he doesn't want the marketing clout of the App Store at all... but as there is no alternative to the App Store...
Can't you see an issue there? And if it is Apple which is blocking the refund of subscriptions of people who forget to cancel...
Surely you can see that something isn't quite right in this setup?
In a society leaning toward lawlessness, we have this to look forward to as well. Yay.
Developers don’t like what they signed up for, so they spin the narrative until they get what they want and ruin a perfectly great thing.
Rules are good. Enforcing them is good. Note to developer: get back in line. When you develop a successful platform that everyone wants, you can call the shots. Until then, be a good partner.
Another developer who bites the hand that feeds them, why? Quite simple, they love “provoked”nrejections, they get enormous free publicity and probably have more subscriptions in a few weeks than they normally would have in year ... whine and earn yourself a big pay check as you finally get noticed within the millions of App’s ... shame on you (and the media giving them a platform)!
I’m absolutely with the developer here, on this issue.
And I’m firmly in the Apple camp. Apple is the one doing all the work obtaining and keeping its large base of customers willing to pay for apps. If 30% is too high given what Apple does they’re more than happy to go to the Android camp, where they probably make zero money.
70% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
whiners.
What? This isn't even related to your tirade about the Apple cut. It's about whether trial periods should auto-renew when they end.
Apple should start thinking of the US and European governments as the Apple app review review. When an app fails Apple's review, it can't be released to the App Store. When Apple fails the government app review review, it will cost Apple billions of dollars and force it to change its app review process. In other words, Apple should be very very careful right now when rejecting apps for silly arbitrary reasons. It should review its own rejections and ask itself if it is really worth risking the wrath of government oversight? As it stands, Apple is proceeding with maximum hubris and it is going to cost them. Apple would really hate to be broken up but it could happen easily. Imagine if iOS was a separate company from iPad OS and Mac OS and Watch OS.
This is what I don't understand - well, I do; it's Apple's notoriously stubborn attitude that "we know best for everyone" but still. A simple tweak to the rules or even a small reduction in their App Store cut may cost them a little in the short run, but it will keep the governments from sniffing around. It'll cost one hell of a lot less in the long run than the fine they'll get if they lose the EU/US antitrust cases - plus most likely the installation of a government official to monitor things. In any case if it wasn't for third party devs, the iPhone would be nowhere near as popular as it is now, and Apple could reward them with a small fee cut.
The alternative for the developer is to not build on the iOS platform. Apple doesn't force them. Build your app as a website, then promote it yourself and ask people to add the URL as an icon on the iPhone's home page. That would mean they get all the money and don't have to deal with apple or the App store at all. They won't do this though because then they take all the risk of marketing, hosting, and updating the platform. It's easier to pay 30% and get the App store and it's benefits.
I realise this is an Apple fan site, but it's absurd how many people here blindly defend Apple no matter what they do. Apple is always right, apparently, even in cases where they've lost multiple lawsuits on the same subject or had to compensate people, they're still right. Every time. Always. Apparently.
We all love Apple here, and we all want Apple to be successful. But that success doesn't mean they should be free to stomp on us the users, or developers, or their own staff because Cook wants to make a few more million dollars to put in the bank to add to their existing billions they don't know what to do with. Criticism of Apple doesn't make you a "hater", it is is usually aimed ultimately to improve the product on offer. Remember Apple is a business, and they're there to make as much money as they can from users. If you're one of the several here that blindly defend Apple, take a step back and look at the bigger picture: it's the trillion dollar Apple vs a lowly developer who's in all likelihood relying on Apple's latest check to put food on the table for his family. Who does that couple of percent make a bigger difference to?
Any trial offer always ask for a credit card and agreeing to a detail legal agreement before the trial starts! It not free since cancellations are a month into paid contract! That is why I never try “trial free” offers. They keep billing even after you request cancellation. Sometime 3 months before it stops.
I realise this is an Apple fan site, but it's absurd how many people here blindly defend Apple no matter what they do. Apple is always right, apparently, even in cases where they've lost multiple lawsuits on the same subject or had to compensate people, they're still right. Every time. Always. Apparently.
We all love Apple here, and we all want Apple to be successful. But that success doesn't mean they should be free to stomp on us the users, or developers, or their own staff because Cook wants to make a few more million dollars to put in the bank to add to their existing billions they don't know what to do with. Criticism of Apple doesn't make you a "hater", it is is usually aimed ultimately to improve the product on offer. Remember Apple is a business, and they're there to make as much money as they can from users. If you're one of the several here that blindly defend Apple, take a step back and look at the bigger picture: it's the trillion dollar Apple vs a lowly developer who's in all likelihood relying on Apple's latest check to put food on the table for his family. Who does that couple of percent make a bigger difference to?
Perhaps the reason we use their products is because we agree with their ethos. Regarding the law, this is the same ‘law’ that let MS steal Apple’s UI whilst claiming is was Xerox’s UI? Now that’s blind!
I’m absolutely with the developer here, on this issue.
So you think developers should have free access to the App Store and Apple should get nothing in return. Because that's what this guy is wanting. He wants the marketing clout of the App Store but doesn't want to pay for it. He offers his app as a free trial but if you want to buy it you go to his website. Yeah, cut Apple out of the deal even though Apple provides the platform, the marketing, the server space. All the developer has to do is upload their app, get it approved and they enjoy all the clout of the world's most valuable marketing platform. The developer doesn't need to advertise, they don't even need a website.
Major developers like Facebook and Uber are getting a free ride. And that's just two examples. So that doesn't exactly hold water.
I realise this is an Apple fan site, but it's absurd how many people here blindly defend Apple no matter what they do. Apple is always right, apparently, even in cases where they've lost multiple lawsuits on the same subject or had to compensate people, they're still right. Every time. Always. Apparently.
We all love Apple here, and we all want Apple to be successful. But that success doesn't mean they should be free to stomp on us the users, or developers, or their own staff because Cook wants to make a few more million dollars to put in the bank to add to their existing billions they don't know what to do with. Criticism of Apple doesn't make you a "hater", it is is usually aimed ultimately to improve the product on offer. Remember Apple is a business, and they're there to make as much money as they can from users. If you're one of the several here that blindly defend Apple, take a step back and look at the bigger picture: it's the trillion dollar Apple vs a lowly developer who's in all likelihood relying on Apple's latest check to put food on the table for his family. Who does that couple of percent make a bigger difference to?
I realise this is an Apple fan site, but it's absurd how many people here blindly defend Apple no matter what they do. Apple is always right, apparently, even in cases where they've lost multiple lawsuits on the same subject or had to compensate people, they're still right. Every time. Always. Apparently.
We all love Apple here, and we all want Apple to be successful. But that success doesn't mean they should be free to stomp on us the users, or developers, or their own staff because Cook wants to make a few more million dollars to put in the bank to add to their existing billions they don't know what to do with. Criticism of Apple doesn't make you a "hater", it is is usually aimed ultimately to improve the product on offer. Remember Apple is a business, and they're there to make as much money as they can from users. If you're one of the several here that blindly defend Apple, take a step back and look at the bigger picture: it's the trillion dollar Apple vs a lowly developer who's in all likelihood relying on Apple's latest check to put food on the table for his family. Who does that couple of percent make a bigger difference to?
I suspect a few own Apple shares so it’s in their vested personal financial interests to drive up that share price and defend Apple no matter what.
I’m absolutely with the developer here, on this issue.
And I’m firmly in the Apple camp. Apple is the one doing all the work obtaining and keeping its large base of customers willing to pay for apps. If 30% is too high given what Apple does they’re more than happy to go to the Android camp, where they probably make zero money.
70% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
whiners.
I bet you own Apple shares. Never on the side of the customer, and this developer never stated they don’t want to give Apple its cut, their complaint is clearly over Apple forcing them to take money from the apps customers, basically here’s a free trial, enter all your payment details and we will charge you if you don’t cancel, it’s a dirty trick purely designed to milk money from the customer, putting the giant corporation Frits and foremost and the customer a very far behind lonely second.
It’s not only an anti competitive move but very clearly anti consumer and I’d argue in come countries potentially illegal. I’m glad the developer stood up to Apple on this one.
As a developer myself, I remember easily the years of boxed software and the difficulty of actually making money in that market. Factor in overhead, marketing, distribution, and everything else associated with selling independently, a 30% cut to access that market is chump change.
Apple created this market that developers have access to. Not the other way around.
keep whining.
I’m sure the billions in profit from the App Store Apple clears every quarter is a bit of an incentive for Apple to create it, as opposed to exclusively creating it for developers. I’m also not sure everyone would think 30% is ‘chump change’, for instance I’d imagine Netflix or Spotify don’t consider the millions that equates to as cheap. Yes Apple provides a platform, but it’s financial reports clearly show it’s not at a loss to them. Also it has been highlighted recently they do not treat all companies equally.
One of the things I detest and find very anti-consumer is free trials that auto-renew.
I’m curious what justification all the supporters here have for mandating an auto renewal of a subscription after the trial period has ended, especially when Apple forbids refunds? It’s hard to see this policy as anything more than Apple forcing a policy that preys on consumers who miss a cancellation deadline.
I realise this is an Apple fan site, but it's absurd how many people here blindly defend Apple no matter what they do. Apple is always right, apparently, even in cases where they've lost multiple lawsuits on the same subject or had to compensate people, they're still right. Every time. Always. Apparently.
We all love Apple here, and we all want Apple to be successful. But that success doesn't mean they should be free to stomp on us the users, or developers, or their own staff because Cook wants to make a few more million dollars to put in the bank to add to their existing billions they don't know what to do with. Criticism of Apple doesn't make you a "hater", it is is usually aimed ultimately to improve the product on offer. Remember Apple is a business, and they're there to make as much money as they can from users. If you're one of the several here that blindly defend Apple, take a step back and look at the bigger picture: it's the trillion dollar Apple vs a lowly developer who's in all likelihood relying on Apple's latest check to put food on the table for his family. Who does that couple of percent make a bigger difference to?
100% agree.
I don’t necessarily have an issue with the 30% App Store fee - I think there’s value in it for both the developer and the consumer. Part of what I like about the Apple App Store is the security in it. Still, I can see the issue some people have with it being required and not having an option.
Comments
Basically DownDog want to harvest people’s contact details (from free trial) so they can spam people who don’t want a paid subscription.
Apple’ house, Apple’ rules. If you don’t love it, leave it.
“When you’re running down our app store man, you’re walking on the fightin’ side of me”
Can't you see an issue there? And if it is Apple which is blocking the refund of subscriptions of people who forget to cancel...
Surely you can see that something isn't quite right in this setup?
We all love Apple here, and we all want Apple to be successful. But that success doesn't mean they should be free to stomp on us the users, or developers, or their own staff because Cook wants to make a few more million dollars to put in the bank to add to their existing billions they don't know what to do with. Criticism of Apple doesn't make you a "hater", it is is usually aimed ultimately to improve the product on offer. Remember Apple is a business, and they're there to make as much money as they can from users. If you're one of the several here that blindly defend Apple, take a step back and look at the bigger picture: it's the trillion dollar Apple vs a lowly developer who's in all likelihood relying on Apple's latest check to put food on the table for his family. Who does that couple of percent make a bigger difference to?
Yes Apple provides a platform, but it’s financial reports clearly show it’s not at a loss to them. Also it has been highlighted recently they do not treat all companies equally.
I’m curious what justification all the supporters here have for mandating an auto renewal of a subscription after the trial period has ended, especially when Apple forbids refunds? It’s hard to see this policy as anything more than Apple forcing a policy that preys on consumers who miss a cancellation deadline.
I don’t necessarily have an issue with the 30% App Store fee - I think there’s value in it for both the developer and the consumer. Part of what I like about the Apple App Store is the security in it. Still, I can see the issue some people have with it being required and not having an option.