Apple halved Amazon's App Store fee to get Prime Video on iOS and Apple TV

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in General Discussion edited July 2020
Apple offered Amazon a reduced rate revenue sharing model in a bid to bring Prime Video to the App Store, a move that seemingly contradicts the tech giant's claims that it treats all apps and app makers equally.

Amazon Prime Video
First iteration of Amazon Prime Video for Apple TV.


In 2016, Apple services chief Eddy Cue proffered a deal in which Amazon would share 15% of revenues generated by new subscribers who signed up for Prime Video through an in-app purchase. Apple typically takes a 30% share of App Store subscription revenue, with the figure dropping to 15% for paying customers who maintain a subscription for more than one year.

The proposal was detailed in email correspondence published by the U.S. House Judiciary Committee as produced evidence in a congressional hearing on big tech antitrust matters on Wednesday.

Cue in a memo to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos recapped an apparent meeting at which the two executives discussed terms of a deal that would see Prime Video debut on iOS and Apple TV. At the time, the lack of Prime Video on Apple's set-top platform, a result of Bezos' unwillingness to allow the service onto devices that competed with Amazon's Fire TV boxes, was viewed by consumers as a platform shortcoming.

Along with a reduced 15% cut of subscriptions, Apple agreed to support integration with Siri and the then-new TV app for iOS, as well as incorporate Prime Video metadata for Siri and Spotlight searches. As part of the arrangement, Apple would take 15% of in-app processed subscriptions to "upsell" streaming services like Showtime, the email reads.

The finalized deal was never made public and it is unknown if terms of the agreement changed in the interim between Cue's email and the tvOS launch of Prime Video in December 2017. It is assumed that Amazon took advantage of the offer, however, as details align with a 2017 report regarding the Prime Video tvOS app and a return of Apple TV products on Amazon.com.

Bloomberg reported on the release of Cue's email on Wednesday.

The special arrangement calls into question claims made by Apple CEO Tim Cook and other executives regarding the company's App Store policies. In an opening statement at the Wednesday hearing, Cook said, "The App Store guidelines ensure a high-quality, reliable and secure user experience. They are transparent and applied equally to developers of all sizes and in all categories." He added that the rules are "not set in stone."

Cook doubled down on the stance during questioning, saying Apple "treats every developer the same."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 41
    dutchlorddutchlord Posts: 301member
    Troubles ahead for Cook
    elijahg
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 2 of 41
    Beatsbeats Posts: 3,073member
    ALL developers should be treated equally.

    People here like to talk about "capitalism" only if it means Apple gets screwed. I would have said "fu** off" if they didn't wanna join my platform and double down on TV+.


    dutchlord said:
    Troubles ahead for Cook

    What's the problem? Apple should be able to do whatever they want with THEIR store! People are just mad Apple is making money from their hard earned work.
    mike1lkrupplolliverbuttesilver
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 3 of 41
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,221member
    Beats said:
    ALL developers should be treated equally.

    People here like to talk about "capitalism" only if it means Apple gets screwed. I would have said "fu** off" if they didn't wanna join my platform and double down on TV+.


    dutchlord said:
    Troubles ahead for Cook

    What's the problem? Apple should be able to do whatever they want with THEIR store! People are just mad Apple is making money from their hard earned work.
    You really can't see the problem? That potential conflict?

    Apple can do what it wants. Of course. 

    But someone could come along and say 'this is abusive or harming competition' and depending on who says that, Apple won't be able to do what it wants. 
    chemengin1muthuk_vanalingamelijahg
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 4 of 41
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Isn't lying to Congress a crime?  If Cook is saying they treat everyone the same then that seems to be a pretty egregious lie.
    chemengin1muthuk_vanalingamelijahg
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 5 of 41
    Marvinmarvin Posts: 15,551moderator
    dutchlord said:
    Troubles ahead for Cook
    The phrasing Tim Cook uses seems contradictory at times but he described this already around 1:13:00 in the following video:



    A developer the size of Amazon or meeting the same conditions as them would be treated the same as Amazon. Of course a sole developer isn't expected to get the same deal as Amazon but in most cases that will be true. Governments do the same thing, they give out multi-billion dollar contracts to big companies instead of small ones; they give tax incentives to companies like Amazon to locate to their region where they wouldn't do the same for small companies. Governments can't criticize Apple for doing the same thing they do.

    Tim Cook explicitly said they treat everyone who meets the same conditions the same way. Netflix, Hulu and Amazon are on the same level regarding video streaming services. If some enthusiast makes a small special-interest video sharing app, it's not on the same level.

    Not only that, it's the developer who sets the prices, not Apple. If a developer wants $4.99/month and doesn't like the fee, they can charge more.

    $4.99 x 0.7 = $3.49, $6.99 x 0.7 = $4.89. For a subscription after 12 months, it's 15% for everyone so $5.99 x 0.85 = $5.09

    Having to charge $5.99 vs $4.99 is hardly extortion. The App Store runs on multi-billion dollar data centers across the world to be able to service over 1 billion users in an efficient way. The people who profit from the store help pay for it. Most apps on the store are free.
    razorpitihatescreennamesSpamSandwichmwhitelolliverbestkeptsecretbuttesilver
     7Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 6 of 41
    temperortemperor Posts: 78member
    Much ado about nothing, all subscription services can profit from the 15% tariff, subscription based services will go from 30 to 15% in the second year ... So maybe just maybe they got a one year discount, but we do not know all the details of the deal ...


    mwhite
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 7 of 41
    There is no issue with Tim’s statements
    In Cookette phraseology equality means that some are being treated more equal than others
    muthuk_vanalingamelijahg
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 8 of 41
    uraharaurahara Posts: 733member
    There is no issue with Tim’s statements
    In Cookette phraseology equality means that some are being treated more equal than others
    In your preference: Let’s treat all people the same  
    And you get this left part of the picture. Do you really want this? Or you just throwing smart sounding parades out at us?
    razorpitlkruppXedlogic2.6lolliverwatto_cobrabuttesilverFileMakerFeller
     7Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 9 of 41
    CheeseFreezecheesefreeze Posts: 1,397member
    Cook is being a hypocrite. I have seen the store promoting some indie developers and completely ignoring others, regardless of quality. There’s no such thing as “equality” - its unsustainable to treat everyone perfectly equally. Just be honest about it.
    chemengin1muthuk_vanalingam
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 10 of 41
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    urahara said:
    There is no issue with Tim’s statements
    In Cookette phraseology equality means that some are being treated more equal than others
    In your preference: Let’s treat all people the same  
    And you get this left part of the picture. Do you really want this? Or you just throwing smart sounding parades out at us?
    Do you really think that image has anything to do with Amazon getting preferential treatment here? Wouldnt Amazon in fact be the bigger guy getting the two boxes to stand on? 
    edited July 2020
    avon b7larryalkruppBeatsmuthuk_vanalingamelijahg
     5Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 11 of 41
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,345member
    urahara said:
    There is no issue with Tim’s statements
    In Cookette phraseology equality means that some are being treated more equal than others
    In your preference: Let’s treat all people the same  
    And you get this left part of the picture. Do you really want this? Or you just throwing smart sounding parades out at us?
    They could just buy tickets and sit in the stands like everyone else. 
    razorpitlarryamike1lkruppmikethemartian
     5Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 12 of 41
    Apple offered Amazon a reduced rate revenue sharing model in a bid to bring Prime Video to the App Store, a move that seemingly contradicts the tech giant's claims that it treats all apps and app makers equally.

    Amazon Prime Video
    First iteration of Amazon Prime Video for Apple TV.


    In 2016, Apple services chief Eddy Cue proffered a deal in which Amazon would share 15% of revenues generated by new subscribers who signed up for Prime Video through an in-app purchase. Apple typically takes a 30% share of App Store subscription revenue, with the figure dropping to 15% for paying customers who maintain a subscription for more than one year.

    The proposal was detailed in email correspondence published by the U.S. House Judiciary Committee as produced evidence in a congressional hearing on big tech antitrust matters on Wednesday.

    Cue in a memo to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos recapped an apparent meeting at which the two executives discussed terms of a deal that would see Prime Video debut on iOS and Apple TV. At the time, the lack of Prime Video on Apple's set-top platform, a result of Bezos' unwillingness to allow the service onto devices that competed with Amazon's Fire TV boxes, was viewed by consumers as a platform shortcoming.

    Along with a reduced 15% cut of subscriptions, Apple agreed to support integration with Siri and the then-new TV app for iOS, as well as incorporate Prime Video metadata for Siri and Spotlight searches. As part of the arrangement, Apple would take 15% of in-app processed subscriptions to "upsell" streaming services like Showtime, the email reads.

    The finalized deal was never made public and it is unknown if terms of the agreement changed in the interim between Cue's email and the tvOS launch of Prime Video in December 2017. It is assumed that Amazon took advantage of the offer, however, as details align with a 2017 report regarding the Prime Video tvOS app and a return of Apple TV products on Amazon.com.

    Bloomberg reported on the release of Cue's email on Wednesday.

    The special arrangement calls into question claims made by Apple CEO Tim Cook and other executives regarding the company's App Store policies. In an opening statement at the Wednesday hearing, Cook said, "The App Store guidelines ensure a high-quality, reliable and secure user experience. They are transparent and applied equally to developers of all sizes and in all categories." He added that the rules are "not set in stone."

    Cook doubled down on the stance during questioning, saying Apple "treats every developer the same."
    For some reason I am remembering AppleInsider published an article explaining how Amazon had to eventually support iOS, iPadOS, TVOS and more to get a “special” commission deal  
    lolliver
     0Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 13 of 41
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,481member
    asdasd said:
    urahara said:
    There is no issue with Tim’s statements
    In Cookette phraseology equality means that some are being treated more equal than others
    In your preference: Let’s treat all people the same  
    And you get this left part of the picture. Do you really want this? Or you just throwing smart sounding parades out at us?
    Do you really think that image has anything to do with Amazon getting preferential treatment here? Wouldnt Amazon in fact be the bigger guy getting the two boxes to stand on? 
    I don’t think either really fits. Because there is a partnership that is mutually beneficial on a larger scale, there is a different playing field. It’s cost Apple Cash to build, maintain, and support their platform. Small developers can not guarantee a huge volume of subscribers to offset those costs, an Amazon or Netflix can because they have a billion users. Apple’s business model is to only focus on products that have return of 30 profit margin. That first year at their standard 30% for low volume apps is likely used to offset the cost of supporting the total failures and those that get canceled after a month or two. Not to mention the free apps on the store. 
    edited July 2020
    mwhite
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 14 of 41
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    hexclock said:
    urahara said:
    There is no issue with Tim’s statements
    In Cookette phraseology equality means that some are being treated more equal than others
    In your preference: Let’s treat all people the same  
    And you get this left part of the picture. Do you really want this? Or you just throwing smart sounding parades out at us?
    They could just buy tickets and sit in the stands like everyone else. 
    Lol, thought the same thing.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 15 of 41
    svanstromsvanstrom Posts: 702member
    urahara said:
    There is no issue with Tim’s statements
    In Cookette phraseology equality means that some are being treated more equal than others
    In your preference: Let’s treat all people the same  
    And you get this left part of the picture. Do you really want this? Or you just throwing smart sounding parades out at us?
    There are several ways to treat people "equally"…


    But the problem is that in this case there's fence like in frame #1 and #2, but they (Apple) only gave a box to the tallest person (Amazon).

    Buuuuut… that is only one perspective, because if you take a step back you could argue that in this case it was Amazon that was the bully, and Apple being the victim as they had to give in to the demands of Amazon; that was abusing their position while trying to create their own little Amazon-only monopoly-like circumstances. :) 
    BeatslolliverCheeseFreeze
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 16 of 41
    crowley said:
    Isn't lying to Congress a crime?  If Cook is saying they treat everyone the same then that seems to be a pretty egregious lie.
    Yes and it could be but not necessarily. The email in question is four years old and Apple may have allowed special deals then but since given up the practice.

    Tim also laid out subscription fees as 30% for the first year and 15% for every year after. That wasn't always the case but we wouldn't say he lied because the policy changed. He correctly characterized their current policy which is what is relevant. In fact 2016, the year that this email is from, is the year Apple changed the subscription policy form 70/30 split to 70/30 for year one and 85/15 for each year after. For all we know that is the deal Amazon got and Apple simply took it and extended it to all developers. 
    edited July 2020
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 17 of 41
    svanstromsvanstrom Posts: 702member

    hexclock said:
    urahara said:
    There is no issue with Tim’s statements
    In Cookette phraseology equality means that some are being treated more equal than others
    In your preference: Let’s treat all people the same  
    And you get this left part of the picture. Do you really want this? Or you just throwing smart sounding parades out at us?
    They could just buy tickets and sit in the stands like everyone else. 
    I'd tell you to duck, but damn that point went high in your case.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 18 of 41
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,474member
    Right, because every supplier in every business offers the same deal to every customer regardless of their size or importance. Gimme a break.
    castcoresvanstromBeatslolliverbuttesilver
     5Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 19 of 41
    mubailimubaili Posts: 455member
    crowley said:
    Isn't lying to Congress a crime?  If Cook is saying they treat everyone the same then that seems to be a pretty egregious lie.
    Treat everyone the same means same rule apply to everyone, which means if your application has as many audiences as Amazon Prime has, your app would be treated the same as Amazon Prime.
    lolliver
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 20 of 41
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,927member
    We don’t know the full deal. Perhaps amazon bullied Apple into the 15% in exchange for concessions on Amazons end. 
    Beats
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
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