I don't play Fortnight but I agree with Epic I've never agreed with Apple claiming a portion of all sales from an app even if those sales don't go through the AppStore. Some have compared it to having rules for stocking things in your own store. That's not it Some have said that Epic and others are trying to profit while not paying for the store. Not right either Look at it this way. I have a store. You want to sell something, a computer let's say, in my store. I can and should get a cut of the price for my trouble of hosting your product That's fair. But should I then demand a cut of everything else that is bought with that computer? I sell a Dell computer so anything purchased from Dell on that computer has to pay a toll back to me even if you're a thousand miles away from my store? Of course not, that would be absurd. Yet Apple is demanding a slice of everything bought on Amazon Prime, and Kindle, and all in game purchases, and more, even if those transactions have nothing to do and go nowhere near Apple's store. That has never felt right to me. Apple should get a cute of sales in their store. But that should be the end of it. Oh and don't go around saying if they don't like it they can go elsewhere, to Android for example. Apple has the only store where developers make significant money. The profits from the android store is a fraction. It's like saying if you don't want to pay my forever cut on sales you can go to the other store in the poor section of town where nobody can afford your stuff. Not really a choice for most developers. It's this kind of behavior that's getting Apple in trouble with antitrust hawks.
Please learn to write in paragraphs, and to use proper grammar and spelling. You sound like a child.
Your post is also devoid of any logic. The App Store is nothing like asking a computer buyer to share profits of anything they sell with that computer, although if two people agreed to such an arrangement it would be completely legal.
The App Store is a place where developers can distribute apps in exchange for a fee. The fact that some people think the fee is too high, or that the fee is passed onto consumers as part of the price of the app does not constitute an antitrust violation.
And yes, people can go elsewhere. Plenty of people switch between Android and iOS, and then back again. The fact that most don't want to doesn't mean they are forced to stay, and actually increases the value of the App Store to developers.
Apple doesn’t have a monopoly on phones. If you don’t like the terms, you can always not sell your games in iOS. Android is the “leader” in phones anyway.
I don’t care either way, but it also impacts Apple’s own iPhone customers that might want a certain app.
The complaint alleges that Apple has become a "behemoth seeking to control markets, block competition and stifle innovation," and claims that the company's size and reach "far exceeds that of any technology monopolist in history."
A behemoth with how much of the mobile phone market exactly? Of the desktop market? Of the laptop market? Epic just wants free access to customers. This is a dead suit. Every reseller/store pays a wholesale price. And in grocery stores you also pay a shelving fee. If I won't pay that Safeway won't carry my product. So good luck here...
Yes. It is amazing how these companies make the claim that Apple is monopolizing the market for Apple products. Even more amazing that some politicians are swallowing this line. Maybe they should turn their attention to Sony for monopolizing the market for Sony game consoles. Or Merceds Benz for their lock on the market for Mercedes Benz cars. Ridiculously stupid thinking.
The Apple App Store is a subordinate market. It exists solely because of the iPhone and iPad. If Apple has a monopoly in the smartphone and tablet market, then sure, Epic has a case because that is the only way consumers can buy and play their games. But with Android out there, Epic cannot claim that Apple is shutting them out of the market. If they must sue someone, maybe they should sue Google and the Android phone manufacturers for putting out such lousy product that nobody wants to play Fortnite through their platform. But that's not true either because a lot of Android phone owners play Fortnite.
Exactly. One could just as well argue that Epic should allow other game developers to sell games on the Epic store, and do so for free. But of course Epic will not allow that because it's their store. And they would be right in doing so because their store is not an industry within the meaning of antitrust law.
I don't play Fortnight but I agree with Epic I've never agreed with Apple claiming a portion of all sales from an app even if those sales don't go through the AppStore. Some have compared it to having rules for stocking things in your own store. That's not it Some have said that Epic and others are trying to profit while not paying for the store. Not right either Look at it this way. I have a store. You want to sell something, a computer let's say, in my store. I can and should get a cut of the price for my trouble of hosting your product That's fair. But should I then demand a cut of everything else that is bought with that computer? I sell a Dell computer so anything purchased from Dell on that computer has to pay a toll back to me even if you're a thousand miles away from my store? Of course not, that would be absurd. Yet Apple is demanding a slice of everything bought on Amazon Prime, and Kindle, and all in game purchases, and more, even if those transactions have nothing to do and go nowhere near Apple's store. That has never felt right to me. Apple should get a cute of sales in their store. But that should be the end of it. Oh and don't go around saying if they don't like it they can go elsewhere, to Android for example. Apple has the only store where developers make significant money. The profits from the android store is a fraction. It's like saying if you don't want to pay my forever cut on sales you can go to the other store in the poor section of town where nobody can afford your stuff. Not really a choice for most developers. It's this kind of behavior that's getting Apple in trouble with antitrust hawks.
If Epic gets away with this what's stopping everyone company from making their applications free and charging people off line? For example, why wouldn't Adobe offer a crippled version of Photoshop for the iPad and offer to add the missing features via a web form. So Apple would have created the development tools and hosted the application and earn 30% of $0.
Epic signed a clearly worded contract. Then, snuck and enabled new payment code in their app. All while working in parallel putting together a lawsuit and PR campaign including the video to be in hand when Apple expectedly pulled the app
At a minimum, Epic is morally bankrupt and has no ethics. Who in the world would want to work for a company that does something like this?
I have no problem buying an app from the App Store... but Apple should not collect on in-app purchases or subscriptions as they have provided no value to it. These developers have designed their own commerce systems at their expense... why should Apple get any piece of it when their system doesn't touch it? If the concern is that companies will make everything on the a App Store just a gateway - then Apple can charge the developers for hosting and marketing their products on the store - as the only way to download apps is through the store.
I have no problem buying an app from the App Store... but Apple should not collect on in-app purchases or subscriptions as they have provided no value to it. These developers have designed their own commerce systems at their expense... why should Apple get any piece of it when their system doesn't touch it? If the concern is that companies will make everything on the a App Store just a gateway - then Apple can charge the developers for hosting and marketing their products on the store - as the only way to download apps is through the store.
You're using the App Store and Apple hardware to enjoy the content. There's no excuse around it.
I have no problem buying an app from the App Store... but Apple should not collect on in-app purchases or subscriptions as they have provided no value to it. These developers have designed their own commerce systems at their expense... why should Apple get any piece of it when their system doesn't touch it? If the concern is that companies will make everything on the a App Store just a gateway - then Apple can charge the developers for hosting and marketing their products on the store - as the only way to download apps is through the store.
I think you are mistaken. The so called developers you mentioned are using Apple provided tools and technologies to develop the iOS apps. If they don’t want to use this, they are free to use the web apps. You cannot expect all free lunches without paying the company. This also protects them from the patents as Apple licenses them and provides them to developers. Why do you think none of the developers get sued for anything they do? Cause Apple Is paying for those patents.
Apple should agree to let Epic use the App Store totally free and without a fee.... and then disable their in App purchases due to technical errors that they aim to solve "within weeks". Then they should offer Epic the option to launch their own App Store on iPhone, but it will intentionally be filled with weird buggs that will make any app running in it crash, hoping to solve all the problems the next year.
I feel for developers. Even though I have no stake, I can’t quite dismiss their argument that 30% is too high. Even though it would be hard to get a “right number”.
As dor Fortnite being out of the App Store, well, let’s just say it isn’t the worst that happened in 2020. It ultimately means nothing at all!
And yes, the fact that Epic actions were as planned and rehearsed as an Apple Event, really imparts a sleazy air around the whole thing. And that is a shame, even though I’ve never been into Fortnite, I still remember fondly the Infinity Blade saga! Ah, and yes, they were on stage with Apple, fawning at each other like newlyweds...
About time. They are our devices, we should be able to run whatever we want on them including a competing app store. If Apple thinks 30% is fair then it can try competing with app stores where the cut is 10% and see how well it does. What if a $10 app cost only $8 on another app store? How many customers would stick with Apple then?
Hey folks, read the comments on the YouTube video to hear what people outside the Apple bubble think. Best one thus far: “You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain” Over 13,000 comments thus far. Seems to have touched a nerve.
The complaint alleges that Apple has become a "behemoth seeking to control markets, block competition and stifle innovation," and claims that the company's size and reach "far exceeds that of any technology monopolist in history."
A behemoth with how much of the mobile phone market exactly? Of the desktop market? Of the laptop market? Epic just wants free access to customers. This is a dead suit. Every reseller/store pays a wholesale price. And in grocery stores you also pay a shelving fee. If I won't pay that Safeway won't carry my product. So good luck here...
If Epic wins I’m going to start a business selling popcorn and other snacks in movie theater lobbies. Without paying the cinemas a dime. Maybe I’ll setup kiosks in malls to sell products, rent free. And maybe I’ll even sell bottles of wine inside restaurants.
I don't play Fortnight but I agree with Epic I've never agreed with Apple claiming a portion of all sales from an app even if those sales don't go through the AppStore. Some have compared it to having rules for stocking things in your own store. That's not it Some have said that Epic and others are trying to profit while not paying for the store. Not right either Look at it this way. I have a store. You want to sell something, a computer let's say, in my store. I can and should get a cut of the price for my trouble of hosting your product That's fair. But should I then demand a cut of everything else that is bought with that computer? I sell a Dell computer so anything purchased from Dell on that computer has to pay a toll back to me even if you're a thousand miles away from my store? Of course not, that would be absurd. Yet Apple is demanding a slice of everything bought on Amazon Prime, and Kindle, and all in game purchases, and more, even if those transactions have nothing to do and go nowhere near Apple's store. That has never felt right to me. Apple should get a cute of sales in their store. But that should be the end of it. Oh and don't go around saying if they don't like it they can go elsewhere, to Android for example. Apple has the only store where developers make significant money. The profits from the android store is a fraction. It's like saying if you don't want to pay my forever cut on sales you can go to the other store in the poor section of town where nobody can afford your stuff. Not really a choice for most developers. It's this kind of behavior that's getting Apple in trouble with antitrust hawks.
In your model what's to stop all the apps from going freemium and then Apple gets nothing?
The only way it works is if any app with in app purchases also has an up front price.
I don't play Fortnight but I agree with Epic I've never agreed with Apple claiming a portion of all sales from an app even if those sales don't go through the AppStore. Some have compared it to having rules for stocking things in your own store. That's not it Some have said that Epic and others are trying to profit while not paying for the store. Not right either Look at it this way. I have a store. You want to sell something, a computer let's say, in my store. I can and should get a cut of the price for my trouble of hosting your product That's fair. But should I then demand a cut of everything else that is bought with that computer? I sell a Dell computer so anything purchased from Dell on that computer has to pay a toll back to me even if you're a thousand miles away from my store? Of course not, that would be absurd. Yet Apple is demanding a slice of everything bought on Amazon Prime, and Kindle, and all in game purchases, and more, even if those transactions have nothing to do and go nowhere near Apple's store. That has never felt right to me. Apple should get a cute of sales in their store. But that should be the end of it. Oh and don't go around saying if they don't like it they can go elsewhere, to Android for example. Apple has the only store where developers make significant money. The profits from the android store is a fraction. It's like saying if you don't want to pay my forever cut on sales you can go to the other store in the poor section of town where nobody can afford your stuff. Not really a choice for most developers. It's this kind of behavior that's getting Apple in trouble with antitrust hawks.
Your argument falls down. It’s not about poor android customers. It’s about people who can afford an Apple phone. Those people, who presumably have the money to buy Apple products and services and software, can take their Apple iPhone money and instead buy an Android phone. Nothing stopping them. They aren’t poor, by your own argument. There’s a clear choice for Epic, sell on Android’s app stores and market to everyone, including those who would buy iPhones, that people should buy an Android phone to play Epic games.
About time. They are our devices, we should be able to run whatever we want on them including a competing app store. If Apple thinks 30% is fair then it can try competing with app stores where the cut is 10% and see how well it does. What if a $10 app cost only $8 on another app store? How many customers would stick with Apple then?
You’re conflating the hardware, which you own, with the OS, which you license. It doesn’t belong to you or to Epic or anyone other than Apple. The OS provides the libraries and software interfaces used by apps to do anything useful. Apple spends a great deal of money creating, maintaining and updating those libraries and interfaces. And the company therefore should have a right to recoup those costs from those who benefit. The app developers. It’s not just a store that sells cars (apps), it’s the road upon which those cars drive. And it’s a private road, with a toll. That’s just the way it is.
About time. They are our devices, we should be able to run whatever we want on them including a competing app store. If Apple thinks 30% is fair then it can try competing with app stores where the cut is 10% and see how well it does. What if a $10 app cost only $8 on another app store? How many customers would stick with Apple then?
I bet all of them will stick with Apple.
Privacy, security, vetted Apps, single entity to trust your credit card to...these are all easily worth a couple dollars.
Apps are dirt cheap. The average iOS user spends less than $10 a month on Apps. Saving $2 for increased risk of malware or other issues is not enough to make people switch.
And that’s assuming prices are actually cheaper. More likely they charge the same price and pocket the extra money for themselves.
Totally orchestrated by Epic. Pathetic.
Go build your own store. Show us all how it is done—the right way. Seriously, do it. Maybe it will be something as crappy as Origin? Maybe not. But after investing a kajillion bucks like Apple did, let’s see how you do. We’ll continue the conversation then.
Comments
Please learn to write in paragraphs, and to use proper grammar and spelling. You sound like a child.
Your post is also devoid of any logic. The App Store is nothing like asking a computer buyer to share profits of anything they sell with that computer, although if two people agreed to such an arrangement it would be completely legal.
The App Store is a place where developers can distribute apps in exchange for a fee. The fact that some people think the fee is too high, or that the fee is passed onto consumers as part of the price of the app does not constitute an antitrust violation.
And yes, people can go elsewhere. Plenty of people switch between Android and iOS, and then back again. The fact that most don't want to doesn't mean they are forced to stay, and actually increases the value of the App Store to developers.
Exactly. One could just as well argue that Epic should allow other game developers to sell games on the Epic store, and do so for free. But of course Epic will not allow that because it's their store. And they would be right in doing so because their store is not an industry within the meaning of antitrust law.
These developers have designed their own commerce systems at their expense... why should Apple get any piece of it when their system doesn't touch it?
If the concern is that companies will make everything on the a App Store just a gateway - then Apple can charge the developers for hosting and marketing their products on the store - as the only way to download apps is through the store.
As dor Fortnite being out of the App Store, well, let’s just say it isn’t the worst that happened in 2020. It ultimately means nothing at all!
And yes, the fact that Epic actions were as planned and rehearsed as an Apple Event, really imparts a sleazy air around the whole thing. And that is a shame, even though I’ve never been into Fortnite, I still remember fondly the Infinity Blade saga! Ah, and yes, they were on stage with Apple, fawning at each other like newlyweds...
“You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain”
Over 13,000 comments thus far. Seems to have touched a nerve.
The only way it works is if any app with in app purchases also has an up front price.
Your argument falls down. It’s not about poor android customers. It’s about people who can afford an Apple phone. Those people, who presumably have the money to buy Apple products and services and software, can take their Apple iPhone money and instead buy an Android phone. Nothing stopping them. They aren’t poor, by your own argument. There’s a clear choice for Epic, sell on Android’s app stores and market to everyone, including those who would buy iPhones, that people should buy an Android phone to play Epic games.
Privacy, security, vetted Apps, single entity to trust your credit card to...these are all easily worth a couple dollars.
Apps are dirt cheap. The average iOS user spends less than $10 a month on Apps. Saving $2 for increased risk of malware or other issues is not enough to make people switch.
And that’s assuming prices are actually cheaper. More likely they charge the same price and pocket the extra money for themselves.