This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican's Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
BoyGeorge hasn’t done his homework. He never does.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
Are you seriously trying to deny that the Patriot Act authorizing the NSA to spy on anybody anywhere anytime doesn't Have Republican finger prints all over it?
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
Are you seriously trying to deny that the Patriot Act authorizing the NSA to spy on anybody anywhere anytime doesn't Have Republican finger prints all over it?
Bahahahaha!
Are you seriously trying to deny that the Democrats and President Obama were and are complicit? Bahahaha!
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
BoyGeorge hasn’t done his homework. He never does.
The trouble is: I do. And I don't spout nonsense like you Trumpers.
And no, the Patriot Act authorizing American intelligence to spy on Americans is all Republican -- conceived and rammed through congress by them in typical right wing fervor. But now you Trumpers would rather see 165,000+ Americans die than an effective tracing app that could have saved their lives. Why? Some imagined privacy thing!
I remember when the Republican Party was the GOP instead of a bunch of crazy ideologues -- who switch ideologies faster than Trump switches his lies.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
BoyGeorge hasn’t done his homework. He never does.
The trouble is: I do. And I don't spout nonsense like you Trumpers.
And no, the Patriot Act authorizing American intelligence to spy on Americans is all Republican -- conceived and rammed through congress by them in typical right wing fervor.
"President Obama on Tuesday slammed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
BoyGeorge hasn’t done his homework. He never does.
The trouble is: I do. And I don't spout nonsense like you Trumpers.
And no, the Patriot Act authorizing American intelligence to spy on Americans is all Republican -- conceived and rammed through congress by them in typical right wing fervor.
"President Obama on Tuesday slammed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
He's not Republican.
Sorry! The Patriot Act was conceived and passed by Republicans. They;re the ones who thought we should spy on anybody and everybody -- including Americans.
I can't see this as anything other than an abuse of government powers.
It used to be that sovereign nations were aware of limitations on the sale of US products to third parties before purchase.
I think that's a reasonable approach to applying restrictions but changing the rules at short notice for doubtful reasons and in the concealed name of protectionism but claiming national security concerns AFTER the sale, well that can only end badly because countries and companies will only see the US as an unreliable entity willing to do anything to get its way. In that scenario, the US will find itself in isolation as the world shuns its products.
We've seen this with Huawei and now with Tik Tok. If WeChat is affected too, it won't be long before Tim Cook is dining at the White House to try and drive a message into Trump's head.
Get off that pedestal on that horse of yours; even the worst of what that racist orange might do is still less than what Winnie Xi has been doing all the time with that great firewall of his.
People can't react before they react, so any argument of yours along the lines of "but it was ok yesterday" is pretty much null and moot.
However, the US has now moved to an extraterritorial mode and is attempting to apply 'sanctions' on its opponents by restricting what companies in sovereign nations can do with their products, simply because even a small part of them use US technology.
Take a look at China's new HK security law. Specifically if you make anti-China comments related to Hong Kong anywhere in the world, you can be arrested for them in Hong Kong. Then we can get into Tibet, Taiwan and the South China Sea as well, if you like. Let's not go comparing each nation's "extraterritorial mode".
Yes when you step into Hong Kong. Otoh the US wanted to extradite Gary McKinnon for things he did in the UK. Also extraordinary rendition of “targets” that they can’t get extradite. So sorry, not sorry, but I don’t give a toss about US security concerns.
"When you step into Hong Kong" isn't really correct; the Swedish citizen Gui Minhai was kidnapped from Thailand and taken into mainland China, and that was before the CCP had this national security law to refer to. He was kidnapped from a third country simply because his bookshop in Hong Kong was about to release a book with gossip the CCP found inconvenient.
So to the CCP the extraordinary conditions don't have to be that extraordinary; and there's no diplomacy with the other country, people are just disappeared from it, and then show up on Chinese television "confessing" to whatever they're forced to say.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
BoyGeorge hasn’t done his homework. He never does.
The trouble is: I do. And I don't spout nonsense like you Trumpers.
And no, the Patriot Act authorizing American intelligence to spy on Americans is all Republican -- conceived and rammed through congress by them in typical right wing fervor.
"President Obama on Tuesday slammed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
He's not Republican.
Sorry! The Patriot Act was conceived and passed by Republicans. They;re the ones who thought we should spy on anybody and everybody -- including Americans.
But, nice try!
Sorry your zealotry is getting the best of you.
I'm certain the Chinese are working hard to forge a change in Administrations and propaganda is part of the playbook. President Trump has been very difficult for them to work with (difficult for a lot of us) so the Chinese "friends" are being pushed hard with these propaganda suggestions. How many of these tactics do you employ George?
- To the extent possible make America the target of criticism.
- Play down the existence of Taiwan.
- Do not directly confront [the idea of] democracy; rather, frame the argument in terms of “what kind of system can truly implement democracy.”
- To the extent possible, choose various examples in Western countries of violence and unreasonable circumstances to explain how democracy is not well-suited to capitalism.
- Use America’s and other countries’ interference in international affairs to explain how Western democracy is actually an invasion of other countries and [how the West] is forcibly pushing [on other countries] Western values.
- Use the bloody and tear-stained history of a [once] weak people [i.e., China] to stir up pro-Party and patriotic emotions.
- Increase the exposure that positive developments inside China receive.
Team Trump employs their own propaganda and the Russians are appearing to do the same as the Chinese (Horrid time of the year, I hate politics and the zealotry on both sides). So I get you, but IMO you're playing blind unless instead you're a supporting element of 五毛党 . Just as you recommend for others do yourself a favor: Educate yourself.
The Patriot Act was a team effort, Democrats and Republicans working together to get the Patriot Act passed, and a Democratic President Obama strong-arming Congress to get it renewed in 2015 or it would have expired. In fact this year's Democratic candidate Joe Biden not only voted for the 2001 Patriot Act, but he also claims credit for conceiving it.
"I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing," Biden was quoted as saying by the New Republic in 2001. "And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill," Biden continued, referring to the Patriot Act. The act of course broadened the surveillance capabilities of U.S. law enforcement agencies, something that has wavering support depending on whatever current circumstances are at play.
It wasn't just a one-off claim from him either. In 2002, when the FBI director Ashcroft was testifying before Congress, Biden said not only that he wrote the 1994 act, but that the AG called him to say it was generally the same as the one Biden wrote and tried to get passed.
"Civil libertarians were opposed to it," Biden said. "Right after 1994, and you can ask the attorney general this, because I got a call when he introduced the Patriot Act. He said, 'Joe, I'm introducing the act basically as you wrote it in 1994.'
So the Patriot Act was conceived by a Democrat. That's fact according to Joe Biden unless Biden is not being honest and I'm sure you aren't pasting "liar" on him.
I can't see this as anything other than an abuse of government powers.
It used to be that sovereign nations were aware of limitations on the sale of US products to third parties before purchase.
I think that's a reasonable approach to applying restrictions but changing the rules at short notice for doubtful reasons and in the concealed name of protectionism but claiming national security concerns AFTER the sale, well that can only end badly because countries and companies will only see the US as an unreliable entity willing to do anything to get its way. In that scenario, the US will find itself in isolation as the world shuns its products.
We've seen this with Huawei and now with Tik Tok. If WeChat is affected too, it won't be long before Tim Cook is dining at the White House to try and drive a message into Trump's head.
Get off that pedestal on that horse of yours; even the worst of what that racist orange might do is still less than what Winnie Xi has been doing all the time with that great firewall of his.
People can't react before they react, so any argument of yours along the lines of "but it was ok yesterday" is pretty much null and moot.
However, the US has now moved to an extraterritorial mode and is attempting to apply 'sanctions' on its opponents by restricting what companies in sovereign nations can do with their products, simply because even a small part of them use US technology.
Take a look at China's new HK security law. Specifically if you make anti-China comments related to Hong Kong anywhere in the world, you can be arrested for them in Hong Kong. Then we can get into Tibet, Taiwan and the South China Sea as well, if you like. Let's not go comparing each nation's "extraterritorial mode".
Yes when you step into Hong Kong. Otoh the US wanted to extradite Gary McKinnon for things he did in the UK. Also extraordinary rendition of “targets” that they can’t get extradite. So sorry, not sorry, but I don’t give a toss about US security concerns.
"When you step into Hong Kong" isn't really correct; the Swedish citizen Gui Minhai was kidnapped from Thailand and taken into mainland China, and that was before the CCP had this national security law to refer to. He was kidnapped from a third country simply because his bookshop in Hong Kong was about to release a book with gossip the CCP found inconvenient.
So to the CCP the extraordinary conditions don't have to be that extraordinary; and there's no diplomacy with the other country, people are just disappeared from it, and then show up on Chinese television "confessing" to whatever they're forced to say.
Read up on Julian Assange and how he was arrested and eventually cornered in an embassy.
Most countries made sedition and related activities illegal. Some even fought a long civil war to prevent the break up of their union.
Your "point" about China kidnapping people from other countries, not in any way adhering to any local laws/diplomacy, is in your head somehow related to Assange running to an embassy to hide rather than facing further questioning about sexual assault after an Interpol arrest warrant was made?
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
BoyGeorge hasn’t done his homework. He never does.
The trouble is: I do. And I don't spout nonsense like you Trumpers.
And no, the Patriot Act authorizing American intelligence to spy on Americans is all Republican -- conceived and rammed through congress by them in typical right wing fervor.
"President Obama on Tuesday slammed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
He's not Republican.
Sorry! The Patriot Act was conceived and passed by Republicans. They;re the ones who thought we should spy on anybody and everybody -- including Americans.
But, nice try!
Sorry your zealotry is getting the best of you.
It was a team effort, Democrats and Republicans working together to get it passed, and in 2015 a Democrat Obama strong-arming Congress to get it renewed rather than allow it to expire according to law. In fact this year's Democratic candidate Joe Biden not only voted for the 2001 Patriot Act, he claims credit for conceiving it.
"I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing," Biden was quoted as saying in 2001. "And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill," Biden continued, referring to the Patriot Act. The act broadened the surveillance capabilities of U.S. law enforcement agencies as it relates to identifying potential terrorists, and many of its provisions apparently opposed by you.
It wasn't just a one-off claim either. In 2002, when the FBI director Ashcroft was testifying before Congress, Biden said not only that he wrote the 1994 act, but that the AG called him to say the Patriot Act was generally the same as the one Biden wrote and tried to get passed.
"Civil libertarians were opposed to it," Biden said. "Right after 1994, and you can ask the attorney general this, because I got a call when he introduced the Patriot Act. He said, 'Joe, I'm introducing the act basically as you wrote it in 1994.'
So the Patriot Act was conceived by a Democrat. That's fact according to Joe Biden unless Biden is not being entirely honest and I'm sure you aren't pasting "liar" on him.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
BoyGeorge hasn’t done his homework. He never does.
The trouble is: I do. And I don't spout nonsense like you Trumpers.
And no, the Patriot Act authorizing American intelligence to spy on Americans is all Republican -- conceived and rammed through congress by them in typical right wing fervor.
"President Obama on Tuesday slammed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
He's not Republican.
Sorry! The Patriot Act was conceived and passed by Republicans. They;re the ones who thought we should spy on anybody and everybody -- including Americans.
But, nice try!
Sorry your zealotry is getting the best of you.
I'm certain the Chinese are working hard to forge a change in Administrations and propaganda is part of the playbook.
LOL.... I stopped reading right there!
While it is true that Trump solicited China to interfere in our election to help him get himself elected to a second debacle, they turned him down cold. Why? Because, unlike Trump and unlike the U.S. under Trump, the Chinese have integrity.
The other country Trump solicited (that we know about) is Ukraine who has also turned him down cold -- although there are a few pro-Russian politicians there taking orders from the Moscow instead of Kiev who are trying to help Trump anyway they can.
So far, U.S. intelligence has only identified one country actively attacking our elections in order to install their shill as our president -- and that's Russia. They installed their boy in the White House once and they are doing their best (according to U.S. intelligence) to do it again.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
BoyGeorge hasn’t done his homework. He never does.
The trouble is: I do. And I don't spout nonsense like you Trumpers.
And no, the Patriot Act authorizing American intelligence to spy on Americans is all Republican -- conceived and rammed through congress by them in typical right wing fervor.
"President Obama on Tuesday slammed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
He's not Republican.
Sorry! The Patriot Act was conceived and passed by Republicans. They;re the ones who thought we should spy on anybody and everybody -- including Americans.
But, nice try!
Sorry your zealotry is getting the best of you.
I'm certain the Chinese are working hard to forge a change in Administrations and propaganda is part of the playbook.
LOL.... I stopped reading right there!
No you didn't. You're choosing to make believe you didn't see the evidence from Biden himself that a Democrat conceived of the Patriot Act, this years Presidential nominee no less. That would force you to admit being wrong. Gosh, can't have that.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
BoyGeorge hasn’t done his homework. He never does.
The trouble is: I do. And I don't spout nonsense like you Trumpers.
And no, the Patriot Act authorizing American intelligence to spy on Americans is all Republican -- conceived and rammed through congress by them in typical right wing fervor.
"President Obama on Tuesday slammed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
He's not Republican.
Sorry! The Patriot Act was conceived and passed by Republicans. They;re the ones who thought we should spy on anybody and everybody -- including Americans.
But, nice try!
Sorry your zealotry is getting the best of you.
I'm certain the Chinese are working hard to forge a change in Administrations and propaganda is part of the playbook. President Trump has been very difficult for them to work with (difficult for a lot of us) so the Chinese "friends" are being pushed hard with these propaganda suggestions. How many of these tactics do you employ George?
- To the extent possible make America the target of criticism.
- Play down the existence of Taiwan.
- Do not directly confront [the idea of] democracy; rather, frame the argument in terms of “what kind of system can truly implement democracy.”
- To the extent possible, choose various examples in Western countries of violence and unreasonable circumstances to explain how democracy is not well-suited to capitalism.
- Use America’s and other countries’ interference in international affairs to explain how Western democracy is actually an invasion of other countries and [how the West] is forcibly pushing [on other countries] Western values.
- Use the bloody and tear-stained history of a [once] weak people [i.e., China] to stir up pro-Party and patriotic emotions.
- Increase the exposure that positive developments inside China receive.
Team Trump employs their own propaganda and the Russians are appearing to do the same as the Chinese (Horrid time of the year, I hate politics and the zealotry on both sides). So I get you, but IMO you're playing blind unless instead you're a supporting element of 五毛党 . Just as you recommend for others do yourself a favor: Educate yourself.
The Patriot Act was a team effort, Democrats and Republicans working together to get the Patriot Act passed, and a Democratic President Obama strong-arming Congress to get it renewed in 2015 or it would have expired. In fact this year's Democratic candidate Joe Biden not only voted for the 2001 Patriot Act, but he also claims credit for conceiving it.
"I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing," Biden was quoted as saying by the New Republic in 2001. "And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill," Biden continued, referring to the Patriot Act. The act of course broadened the surveillance capabilities of U.S. law enforcement agencies, something that has wavering support depending on whatever current circumstances are at play.
It wasn't just a one-off claim from him either. In 2002, when the FBI director Ashcroft was testifying before Congress, Biden said not only that he wrote the 1994 act, but that the AG called him to say it was generally the same as the one Biden wrote and tried to get passed.
"Civil libertarians were opposed to it," Biden said. "Right after 1994, and you can ask the attorney general this, because I got a call when he introduced the Patriot Act. He said, 'Joe, I'm introducing the act basically as you wrote it in 1994.'
So the Patriot Act was conceived by a Democrat. That's fact according to Joe Biden unless Biden is not being honest and I'm sure you aren't pasting "liar" on him.
This is so frustrating. I disagree with basically everything else about Trump but I only have a problem with the crazy way he's trying to address a pertinent issue on this one. Even if only because he thinks people who use TikTok hate him. If China blocks Facebook and Google, then only Chinese companies get to compete in the Chinese market. That means there's a financial advantage to social media companies based in (and answerable to) the Chinese gov. Why should those companies then be allowed to compete in the US market?
Personally I'm not happy with Facebook either, it's increasingly hard to avoid using any of their products. People put WhatsApp numbers in shop windows like it's not also a phone number and people expect you to use it. I'd be even less happy if Facebook were based in China. Some of the social scoring and monitoring of people they do over there sounds dystopian.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
No, it is COMPLETELY relevant! It becomes so when a wanna be dictator uses smear campaigns to create an enemy in order to distract from his own corruption.
And, you have far too much faith in the NSA who daily scoops up massive amounts of data 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year ever since the Republican and Democratic Patriot Act. And you have far too much skepticism of the CCP who doesn't give a damn what you think.
Democrats and a Democratic President renewed it when they had a chance to choose not to do so. Don't be so disingenuous, you're getting sloppier the more you post.
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
BoyGeorge hasn’t done his homework. He never does.
The trouble is: I do. And I don't spout nonsense like you Trumpers.
And no, the Patriot Act authorizing American intelligence to spy on Americans is all Republican -- conceived and rammed through congress by them in typical right wing fervor.
"President Obama on Tuesday slammed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
He's not Republican.
Sorry! The Patriot Act was conceived and passed by Republicans. They;re the ones who thought we should spy on anybody and everybody -- including Americans.
But, nice try!
Sorry your zealotry is getting the best of you.
I'm certain the Chinese are working hard to forge a change in Administrations and propaganda is part of the playbook.
LOL.... I stopped reading right there!
No you didn't. You're choosing to make believe you didn't see the evidence from Biden himself that a Democrat conceived of the Patriot Act, this years Presidential nominee no less. That would force you to admit being wrong. Gosh, can't have that.
Bahahahaha!
.... Sorry, but next to the Iraq War, the Patriot Act was Bush & Cheney's crown jewel.
Comments
Heck, Biden himself took point on attacking "unfair Chinese trade policies" when Obama was President. I don't think you ever mentioned it, so apparently that was OK because it came from the left? Our previous President was proud of the fact he had filed more enforcement actions against the Chinese than anyone in the previous 14 years.
This aggressive action on "unfair Chinese trade" ramped up with a Democratic administration, not a new invention from a Republican one.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/12/fact-sheet-obama-administrations-record-trade-enforcement
https://www.ft.com/content/fed9f136-4914-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab
And it was a Democratic President Obama pressuring Congress to renew the Patriot Act when he could have done the opposite. Where were you condemning him for it?
From May 2015:
"President Obama on Tuesday slammmed the Senate for failing to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act that are set to expire on June 1. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Obama called for the Senate to “work through” the Memorial Day recess to find a solution for renewing government surveillance powers that were passed in the aftermath of 9/11"
Are you seriously trying to deny that the Democrats and President Obama were and are complicit? Bahahaha!
The trouble is: I do. And I don't spout nonsense like you Trumpers.
He's not Republican.
I'm certain the Chinese are working hard to forge a change in Administrations and propaganda is part of the playbook. President Trump has been very difficult for them to work with (difficult for a lot of us) so the Chinese "friends" are being pushed hard with these propaganda suggestions. How many of these tactics do you employ George?
- To the extent possible make America the target of criticism.
- Play down the existence of Taiwan.
- Do not directly confront [the idea of] democracy; rather, frame the argument in terms of “what kind of system can truly implement democracy.”
- To the extent possible, choose various examples in Western countries of violence and unreasonable circumstances to explain how democracy is not well-suited to capitalism.
- Use America’s and other countries’ interference in international affairs to explain how Western democracy is actually an invasion of other countries and [how the West] is forcibly pushing [on other countries] Western values.
- Use the bloody and tear-stained history of a [once] weak people [i.e., China] to stir up pro-Party and patriotic emotions.
- Increase the exposure that positive developments inside China receive.Source https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2011/06/future-banned-on-sina-weibo-search/
Team Trump employs their own propaganda and the Russians are appearing to do the same as the Chinese (Horrid time of the year, I hate politics and the zealotry on both sides). So I get you, but IMO you're playing blind unless instead you're a supporting element of 五毛党 . Just as you recommend for others do yourself a favor: Educate yourself.
The Patriot Act was a team effort, Democrats and Republicans working together to get the Patriot Act passed, and a Democratic President Obama strong-arming Congress to get it renewed in 2015 or it would have expired. In fact this year's Democratic candidate Joe Biden not only voted for the 2001 Patriot Act, but he also claims credit for conceiving it.
"I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing," Biden was quoted as saying by the New Republic in 2001. "And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill," Biden continued, referring to the Patriot Act. The act of course broadened the surveillance capabilities of U.S. law enforcement agencies, something that has wavering support depending on whatever current circumstances are at play.
It wasn't just a one-off claim from him either. In 2002, when the FBI director Ashcroft was testifying before Congress, Biden said not only that he wrote the 1994 act, but that the AG called him to say it was generally the same as the one Biden wrote and tried to get passed."Civil libertarians were opposed to it," Biden said. "Right after 1994, and you can ask the attorney general this, because I got a call when he introduced the Patriot Act. He said, 'Joe, I'm introducing the act basically as you wrote it in 1994.'
So the Patriot Act was conceived by a Democrat. That's fact according to Joe Biden unless Biden is not being honest and I'm sure you aren't pasting "liar" on him.
It was a team effort, Democrats and Republicans working together to get it passed, and in 2015 a Democrat Obama strong-arming Congress to get it renewed rather than allow it to expire according to law. In fact this year's Democratic candidate Joe Biden not only voted for the 2001 Patriot Act, he claims credit for conceiving it.
"I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing," Biden was quoted as saying in 2001. "And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill," Biden continued, referring to the Patriot Act. The act broadened the surveillance capabilities of U.S. law enforcement agencies as it relates to identifying potential terrorists, and many of its provisions apparently opposed by you.
It wasn't just a one-off claim either. In 2002, when the FBI director Ashcroft was testifying before Congress, Biden said not only that he wrote the 1994 act, but that the AG called him to say the Patriot Act was generally the same as the one Biden wrote and tried to get passed."Civil libertarians were opposed to it," Biden said. "Right after 1994, and you can ask the attorney general this, because I got a call when he introduced the Patriot Act. He said, 'Joe, I'm introducing the act basically as you wrote it in 1994.'
So the Patriot Act was conceived by a Democrat. That's fact according to Joe Biden unless Biden is not being entirely honest and I'm sure you aren't pasting "liar" on him.
BOOM!
Personally I'm not happy with Facebook either, it's increasingly hard to avoid using any of their products. People put WhatsApp numbers in shop windows like it's not also a phone number and people expect you to use it. I'd be even less happy if Facebook were based in China. Some of the social scoring and monitoring of people they do over there sounds dystopian.
I'm sorry if that makes you squirm....