Apple's MagSafe Duo charger not compatible with first-party 29W adapter

AppleInsiderAppleInsider
Posted:
in General Discussion edited December 2020
Apple on Thursday published a support document detailing best practices for its MagSafe Duo charger, noting that users will not be able to simultaneously charge an iPhone 12 and Apple Watch with the company's legacy 29W power adapter.

MagSafe Duo


According to the support webpage, the Apple 29W USB-C power adapter is "incompatible" with MagSafe Duo. The company replaced the 29W model with a 30W version in 2018.

A quick look at MagSafe Duo's specifications explains why the charger doesn't work with the older adapter.

Apple notes the dual-charging accessory requires at least 15W of power (5V/3A or 9V/1.67A) to simultaneously juice up an iPhone and Apple Watch. The 29W power adapter does not meet those exact power delivery specifications.

Wireless charging rates are also noted in the document, with Apple claiming 11W of power for a 9V/2.22A power adapter and 14W for adapters rated at 9V/3A or higher. As previously reported, the iPhone 12 mini reaches a peak wireless charging rate of 12W with an adapter outputting 9V/2.62A, while adapters at or above 9V/3A will deliver a maximum of up to 14W peak power to other iPhone 12 models.

For more on power delivery profiles and why MagSafe can't charge at 15W with certain adapters, read AppleInsider's in-depth explainer.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,759member
    A quick look at MagSafe Duo's specifications explains why the charger doesn't work with the older adapter.
    And as well as not telling us here, the later linked article also has no mention of the 29w power supply directly. And Apple's page saying nothing more than it's incompatible.

    LMFTFY: The 29w charger only deals with USB PD 2.0, and therefore whilst the 29w USB C PSU can supply the required 3a at 5v or 1.67a at 9v, it won't because the dock needs PD 3.0, and the USB PD 2.0 fallback  doesn't provide enough juice. A slightly more expensive voltage regulator that supported USB PD 2.0 and 3.0 in the dock would have dealt with that. Apple could have had a fallback to PD 2 or below, and had the dock charge one or the other items so that in a pinch (likely when travelling), you could borrow a super common USB A charger or use a USB A wall socket. I see USB-A wall sockets all over the place, yet to see a USB-C one. My Anker charging puck works just fine charging my iPhone X with a 5v/2a power supply, and I even have a 5w wireless charger that is slow but fine for overnight charging.

    This thing is becoming a bigger and bigger white elephant as each day passes.
    edited December 2020 starof80CloudTalkinmobirdxyzzy01caladanianJapheysvanstromapplguydysamoriasdw2001
  • Reply 2 of 21
    starof80starof80 Posts: 19member
    elijahg said:
    A quick look at MagSafe Duo's specifications explains why the charger doesn't work with the older adapter.
    And as well as not telling us here, the later linked article also has no mention of the 29w power supply directly. And Apple's page saying nothing more than it's incompatible.

    LMFTFY: The 29w charger only deals with USB PD 2.0, and therefore whilst the 29w USB C PSU can supply the required 3a at 5v or 1.67a at 9v, it won't because the dock needs PD 3.0, and the USB PD 2.0 fallback  doesn't provide enough juice. A slightly more expensive voltage regulator that supported USB PD 2.0 and 3.0 in the dock would have dealt with that. Apple could have had a fallback to PD 2 or below, and had the dock charge one or the other items so that in a pinch (likely when travelling), you could borrow a super common USB A charger or use a USB A wall socket. I see USB-A wall sockets all over the place, yet to see a USB-C one. My Anker charging puck works just fine charging my iPhone X with a 5v/2a power supply, and I even have a 5w wireless charger that is slow but fine for overnight charging.

    This thing is becoming a bigger and bigger white elephant as each day passes.

    Yep. I thought it was a gimmick from the start, plus the 12 series is having serious problems. Glad I got my 11 in September than wait in October for the 12.

    williamlondon
  • Reply 3 of 21
    GabyGaby Posts: 190member
    The thing that is bugging me about this - and I accept the environmental argument in and of itself, and anything that we can all do to make a difference in reducing e-waste really helps, but even as an admitted Apple (cringes) “fanboy” I have to say that this has been an additional benefit for Apple, but primarily about the revenue in my opinion. At least that’s what the optics suggest.  And if not then it’s been poorly thought out and executed, however knowing Apple, I find it difficult to believe they would make a mistake this large but I digress... The point is the more that these types of details crop up the more It supports that they are being greedy. You can’t say that you’re not providing the new 20W chargers  (which are the new standard) because there are two billion was it? chargers already in circulation, and that this is good for the planet when those adapters are 90% + old 5W adapters that cannot charge even the new iPhones efficiently let alone support the new accessories. So either way people must buy even more adapters contributing yet more e-waste. I think it would have been prudent to offer credit for returning old gear or offering discounted/gratis 20W based on a similar principle. Ultimately reducing all the countless worthless old and unused plugs, and headphones.  It would also be wise to ensure that these new adapters and standards remain capable and consistent  for as long as possible so we don’t have this same issue again in a few years. In any event it’s safe to say this has been handled rather poorly. Personally I would have liked an option to swap out a lightning-usbC cable for a MagSafe. One can dream....
    rinosaurxyzzy01JapheydysamoriawilliamlondonCloudTalkincaladanian
  • Reply 4 of 21
    bestkeptsecretbestkeptsecret Posts: 4,265member
    This this is getting more and more ridiculous. 

    I bought a pair of HomePods. I've ordered the AirPods Max. However, I don't think I can pull the trigger on this purchase. This thing is just not making any sense to me. It is the iPod Socks of our era. 
    svanstromwilliamlondon
  • Reply 5 of 21
    Fidonet127Fidonet127 Posts: 508member

    Gaby:

    You can’t say that you’re not providing the new 20W chargers  (which are the new standard) because there are two billion was it? chargers already in circulation, and that this is good for the planet when those adapters are 90% + old 5W adapters that cannot charge even the new iPhones efficiently let alone support the new accessories.



    The old chargers can efficiently charge the phones just by using a cable. Wireless charging is an extra and is only 50% efficient. The wireless charger doesn’t come with the phone. If you have an old charger, just use a direct cable to the phone and you will charge faster than any wireless charging method and is more efficient. If you want the wireless charger and don’t have a new standard charger, buy both at the same time. 

  • Reply 6 of 21
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    What happened to “it just works”?

    Something is amiss in the accessories department. First we have this expensive piece of tutt you need an electrical engineering apprentice on standby to tell you if it can charge your iGadget or not

    … and then we had the headphone brassiere. Hopefully there’s a decent hard case on the way. 

    What’s the rush, Apple? Take your time. 
    edited December 2020 screenscriberdysamoriachemengin1caladanian
  • Reply 7 of 21
    svanstromsvanstrom Posts: 702member
    It should be the perfect combo charger for me, but since Apple wanted to save a few dollars on parts the thing's bloody useless. I have absolutely enough power coming out of USB-C ports on my desk at home; but just as with the MBP16 charger I'm guessing it's all the wrong standard.

    The display doesn't state a thing about what version of PD it provides; and as far as I can tell Apple doesn't even specify the PD version for their own Mac computers: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201163#specification

    Following their "[t]o learn which specification is supported"-advice on a MBP16 you'd only get this:
    "Charging and Expansion
    Four Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports with support for:

    Charging
    DisplayPort
    Thunderbolt (up to 40Gb/s)
    USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)"

    Yes, charging is possible, but the snowflake MagSafe Duo Charger probably won't be able to handle exactly how the Mac is able to provide it with up to 15W.

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211925
  • Reply 8 of 21
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Lots of hate for this one. I got one, I had an extra USC C charger, and have been happy with it. I normally travel for work and it seems perfectly geared toward people in my situation. Totally realize I’m the outlier though. 
  • Reply 9 of 21
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    Fidonet127 said:

    The old chargers can efficiently charge the phones just by using a cable. Wireless charging is an extra and is only 50% efficient. The wireless charger doesn’t come with the phone. If you have an old charger, just use a direct cable to the phone and you will charge faster than any wireless charging method and is more efficient.
    Are you saying we are wasting much more energy by using wireless charging?
  • Reply 10 of 21
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,728member
    I'm not trying to make excuses for Apple, but I'm honestly wondering if all this mess is a product of them switching from Lightning to USB-C?  USB has always been a convoluted mess of different sized connectors, as well as different transfer speeds and power levels with the same connector.  It's a perfect example of what you get when you have a bunch of different companies with different (and often competing) goals coming up with a standard.  I'll forever remember a quote from a mailing list I was on back when I was working with Firewire and the USB 2.0 spec had just been released.  Someone called it "polishing a turd".
  • Reply 11 of 21
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,360member
    I like the Duo charger, though it's too pricey for my taste. I think it makes a great travel charger, though durability remains to be seen. It wouldn't do for me as a day-to-day desk charger.

    At least Apple may be a little out in front with the release of this info. Whet I didn't see here (and I may have missed it) is if the 30W charger will support the Duo charger.

    dysamoria said:
    Are you saying we are wasting much more energy by using wireless charging?
    I don't know if the 50% figure is at all accurate, but inductive/wireless charging definitely is not as efficient as charge by wire. The MagSafe protocol minimizes some energy loss by ensuring correct alignment when the phone and charger "lock" together. A lot of people have complained about poor charging that turned out be be a function of not aligning phones with the charging coil. 

    I thought it was a gimmick from the start, plus the 12 series is having serious problems.

    It's not a "gimmick" though I would say it's overpriced. And what are the serious problems you allege for the 12 series?

  • Reply 12 of 21
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,931member
    So Apple eliminates the power supplies supposedly to "reduce environmental waste" because everyone already has them anyway. Except the vast majority are the woefully underpowered 5W cubes. There are a reasonable number of 20W chargers, neither of which are large enough for this device and it turns out neither they nor the more expensive 29 watt charger are compatible with this because Apple didn't spend a few extra cents on a better voltage regulator on a device that is already overpriced. But there's no way for the average consumer to figure out why a 29W charger can't charge at 15W with the device. Just Effing brilliant.

    Apple products have always been more expensive but it's been worth it because they are well designed and last. Now we're seeing poorly designed products that have cut corners and apple too cheap to include the proper power supply. I'm not impressed. 

    macgui said:
    I like the Duo charger, though it's too pricey for my taste. I think it makes a great travel charger, though durability remains to be seen. It wouldn't do for me as a day-to-day desk charger.

    At least Apple may be a little out in front with the release of this info. Whet I didn't see here (and I may have missed it) is if the 30W charger will support the Duo charger.

    dysamoria said:
    Are you saying we are wasting much more energy by using wireless charging?
    I don't know if the 50% figure is at all accurate, but inductive/wireless charging definitely is not as efficient as charge by wire. The MagSafe protocol minimizes some energy loss by ensuring correct alignment when the phone and charger "lock" together. A lot of people have complained about poor charging that turned out be be a function of not aligning phones with the charging coil. 

    I thought it was a gimmick from the start, plus the 12 series is having serious problems.

    It's not a "gimmick" though I would say it's overpriced. And what are the serious problems you allege for the 12 series?

    The numbers I've seen say 25-30% loss in efficiency for wireless charging. I haven't seen anything specific to MagSafe but a direct wire connection is always more efficient. 
    chemengin1elijahgsvanstromcaladanian
  • Reply 13 of 21
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,080member
    Step back for a little perspective:

    How long ago was it that EVERY device came with it's own bespoke barrel-plug DC adapter? There was no expectation that one could use the power supply from an old device to power a new one. If you were geeky enough (probably most of us) you could read the power specification diagram on the transformer for polarity, volts & amps and find interchangeable power supplies, maybe even adapt them if you were really adventurous.

    Come to think of it, those little DC spec diagrams on old transformers were pretty helpful to those geeky enough to care about such things, I wonder if it's time that every USB-C device using Power Delivery should be required to incorporate a tiny E-ink or OLED screen to display detail about faults/capabilities. It would be a design challenge, but with some care (I know, not USB's strong suit) it must be possible to display useful info to confirm a power supply is providing what a downstream device needs as well as displaying real-time capacity per-port when no device is plugged in to inform users, perhaps letting them know before attempting to use an under-power supply.

    Some better USB-C battery power supplies already incorporate screens to give details about power per port. My Ubiquiti Unifi networking gear has little touchscreens on the front panel that are touch & swipe sensitive and can display basic device health info (as well as guide a really cool AR experience where each port is labeled with the device it feeds...). Anyway, little screens are popping up everywhere, maybe USB-C Power Supplies are a good place for another one.
    edited December 2020
  • Reply 14 of 21
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,016member
    It was about 10-12 years ago that comedian Bill Burr made fun of Steve Jobs by saying "new phone doesn't fit the old charger, this is your guy?"  We're to the point of this thing becoming a total farce now.  I stand by my position that Apple would have had no trouble just eliminating the wired EarPods from the box. But the charger? I knew this would end up being a total mess, though I didn't see it expanding to other products.  

    Apple could have dealt with this so much better. For example:  

    1.  Just include the damn USB-C charging brick.  Stop nickel and dime-ing us on a phone that costs up to $1300.   
    2.  Make and include a 5W USB-C brick.  State that it only supports standard charging rates.  
    3.  Keep the old charging brick and cable, offering users ability to later upgrade to a USB-C solution and/or MagSafe.  

    As for this particular situation, it's both comical and probably moot.  This charger is expensive, doesn't include a USB-C brick and from what I read, has questionably durability.  This thing is going to fail spectacularly.  
    MplsP
  • Reply 15 of 21
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,728member
    polymnia said:

    How long ago was it that EVERY device came with it's own bespoke barrel-plug DC adapter? There was no expectation that one could use the power supply from an old device to power a new one.
    While true, nobody was labelling those adapters with an overarching name like Universal Serial Bus or claiming interoperability.  Many of them were different sizes so that it wasn't even possible to plug an adapter from one device into another.  I agree that things have gotten better in many ways (e.g. you're not going to fry a device by using the wrong adapter), but it's still far too confusing for the average person.

    I wonder if it's time that every USB-C device using Power Delivery should be required to incorporate a tiny E-ink or OLED screen to display detail about faults/capabilities.
    I think a far better solution would be to make it so that every connector could dynamically adapt to the needs of whatever is connected to it.  Hide the complexity completely.  The design challenge then would be to find a way to make that solution cheap enough for things like wall plugs and other inexpensive electronics.  That and figuring out a solution for low power devices where it's not possible to adapt to high power needs.
  • Reply 16 of 21
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Jfc, this incompatibility is getting absurd.  Maybe to the point where maybe Apple should consider some kind of trade in program,.
    chemengin1svanstromcaladanian
  • Reply 17 of 21
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,080member
    auxio said:
    polymnia said:

    How long ago was it that EVERY device came with it's own bespoke barrel-plug DC adapter? There was no expectation that one could use the power supply from an old device to power a new one.
    While true, nobody was labelling those adapters with an overarching name like Universal Serial Bus or claiming interoperability.  Many of them were different sizes so that it wasn't even possible to plug an adapter from one device into another.  I agree that things have gotten better in many ways (e.g. you're not going to fry a device by using the wrong adapter), but it's still far too confusing for the average person.

    I wonder if it's time that every USB-C device using Power Delivery should be required to incorporate a tiny E-ink or OLED screen to display detail about faults/capabilities.
    I think a far better solution would be to make it so that every connector could dynamically adapt to the needs of whatever is connected to it.  Hide the complexity completely.  The design challenge then would be to find a way to make that solution cheap enough for things like wall plugs and other inexpensive electronics.  That and figuring out a solution for low power devices where it's not possible to adapt to high power needs.
    It would be great if EVERY power supply could meet every demand, but then every power supply will need to big, heavy & expensive enough to supply the highest demand device possible within the USB PD spec, right? I like being able to throw a small Anker PD3 power supply in a bag to keep myself powered on the go (well, maybe someday I'll be on the go again ߘ䩠while having a much bigger supply at my home to power big devices quickly. The little Anker PD3 power supply will not be able to satisfy the most demanding devices, but I like having the small power supply for my own day-to-day needs. 

    Edit: To say nothing of the constantly advancing USB spec. Even if you came up with a reference spec for power supplies that would power EVERYTHING within the 2020 USB PD spec, you know there will be a 2021 spec and if more power-hungry modes are available, there is no way last years power supplies will be able to meet that. Maybe I lack the creativety to imagine another way for ALL power supplies to support ALL devices across time?
    edited December 2020
  • Reply 18 of 21
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,728member
    polymnia said:

    Edit: To say nothing of the constantly advancing USB spec. Even if you came up with a reference spec for power supplies that would power EVERYTHING within the 2020 USB PD spec, you know there will be a 2021 spec and if more power-hungry modes are available, there is no way last years power supplies will be able to meet that. Maybe I lack the creativety to imagine another way for ALL power supplies to support ALL devices across time?
    It would likely need to be broken down into classes of devices and the plugs + cables _clearly_ identified for compatibility.
  • Reply 19 of 21
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,080member
    auxio said:
    polymnia said:

    Edit: To say nothing of the constantly advancing USB spec. Even if you came up with a reference spec for power supplies that would power EVERYTHING within the 2020 USB PD spec, you know there will be a 2021 spec and if more power-hungry modes are available, there is no way last years power supplies will be able to meet that. Maybe I lack the creativety to imagine another way for ALL power supplies to support ALL devices across time?
    It would likely need to be broken down into classes of devices and the plugs + cables _clearly_ identified for compatibility.
    I'll just move right past the fact that many multipart USB charger's capabilities change as more plugs are inserted. ie: multi-port charges may have 100 watts total between 2 ports. printing a label doesn't mean much when the power available to a particular port changes due to other devices being plugged/unplugged.

    Devices are broken into classes now, those are the Power Delivery Profiles (not sure that's the technical term) and there are dozen of them AFAIK. This labeling ISN'T happening now. Even if it was, no one can keep them all straight, honestly humans aren't good at this kind of thing. And there must be edge cases where a USB PD2 device can support some USB PD3 modes, though not all of them, making labeling by class (PD2, PD3, etc.) difficult.

    If the machine knows what it needs (and it does, with PD), it it should show me. It the machine knows it's not getting what it needs, it should show me. If there is an edge case presents itself (reduced capacity, available power has changed since plugin, etc.) it should offer an explanation.
  • Reply 20 of 21
    seankillseankill Posts: 566member
    starof80 said:
    elijahg said:
    A quick look at MagSafe Duo's specifications explains why the charger doesn't work with the older adapter.
    And as well as not telling us here, the later linked article also has no mention of the 29w power supply directly. And Apple's page saying nothing more than it's incompatible.

    LMFTFY: The 29w charger only deals with USB PD 2.0, and therefore whilst the 29w USB C PSU can supply the required 3a at 5v or 1.67a at 9v, it won't because the dock needs PD 3.0, and the USB PD 2.0 fallback  doesn't provide enough juice. A slightly more expensive voltage regulator that supported USB PD 2.0 and 3.0 in the dock would have dealt with that. Apple could have had a fallback to PD 2 or below, and had the dock charge one or the other items so that in a pinch (likely when travelling), you could borrow a super common USB A charger or use a USB A wall socket. I see USB-A wall sockets all over the place, yet to see a USB-C one. My Anker charging puck works just fine charging my iPhone X with a 5v/2a power supply, and I even have a 5w wireless charger that is slow but fine for overnight charging.

    This thing is becoming a bigger and bigger white elephant as each day passes.

    Yep. I thought it was a gimmick from the start, plus the 12 series is having serious problems. Glad I got my 11 in September than wait in October for the 12.

    While I think this thing is a POS, the iPhone 12 Max is pretty great (upgraded from a 7+); camera is just night and day better.
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