...and best of all, their state government stays out of the way.
I assume that's code for letting corporations and business do whatever the hell they want?
My take on it is simply that office space, cost-of-living and housing has grown so high in the Bay area that moving elsewhere seems like a good deal.
Unfortunately for your rant, in all likelihood the net result of all of those people moving to Austin is that AUSTIN real estate prices are going to start skyrocketing, and that all of those transplanted people are going to want the same level of services they once had in CA.
The same exact thing happened to Colorado and Denver and Boulder a couple of decades ago when the tech boom hit with people moving there from CA... with the same exact result. Housing and COL went up, and the state started going Blue...
California has the highest income tax rate in the U.S. What services will Texans want that California "had"? I see California raking in billions of dollars each year, yet our roads and bridges are in shambles, our public schools are broke, yet government workers continue to rake in their high salaries, gold-plated benefits, while telling everyone to stay home, killing businesses while Newsom dines at French Laundry.
Businesses provide jobs. Jobs fuel the economy. How California treats businesses versus Texas is a very different thing. People are moving to Texas too so they must be doing something right.
Yes, people will move to Texas and other businesses and soon causing housing prices to go up. I'll bet Texas will be in a better position to deal with a good problem to have than anything remotely close to what California has done.
Yeah, I have no problem my rant.
Taxes improve lives, cities and society at least they did before tax laws were re-writen to only benefit the wealthiest.
That is perhaps the dumbest thing I’ve read all year. Then you made sure it was the dumbest with your tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff at the end.
California has some of the wealthiest people, they are now leaving and taking all the jobs they create with them. If the tax laws “were re-written to benefit the wealthiest”......wouldn’t they be staying?
Most employees will remain where they are or work from home. My own company, Dell, is based in Austin but has operations globally. This really doesn't change much. Companies will still pay state income taxes, on their local operations, and employees will still pay taxes in the state they reside. That said, I agree that California could take steps to make the state much more business friendly.
tolerance plays a big part those don’t exist in the American south or in most of the world.
Would you define “tolerance” as promoting stereotypes ?
Tech moving away will spell the end of America’s dominance in the tech sphere as the previous concentration afforded an environment that was conducive to new ideas and the people that create it.
What are you talking about? It’s clear the new tech corridors are going to be in States like Arizona, Texas, etc. Where these companies go, the money and the employees will follow.
Just hope the employees of Oracle doesn't bring the crazy California ideals to Texas. The California ideals will destroy Texas and especially Oracle. Oracle will die then. I'm from Texas but living in California. Yes, very odd. The California State legislation has no idea what reality is about. Newsom is living in his own bubble. From the various news stories, they think they can flaunt the laws and regulations of what we can do. I've had it with state politicians here thinking they're above everyone else. They love to speak with forked tongue. The low and middle class people are the ones the California state government loves to shaft.
Again, I just hope the Oracle employees doesn't bring the California ideals with them. They need to know the true reality outside of California.
Just my thoughts.
When was the last time you heard a progressive Democrat abandon their ideas in favor of conservatism?
Tech moving away will spell the end of America’s dominance in the tech sphere as the previous concentration afforded an environment that was conducive to new ideas and the people that create it.
What are you talking about? It’s clear the new tech corridors are going to be in States like Arizona, Texas, etc. Where these companies go, the money and the employees will follow.
Most employees will remain where they are or work from home. My own company, Dell, is based in Austin but has operations globally. This really doesn't change much. Companies will still pay state income taxes, on their local operations, and employees will still pay taxes in the state they reside. That said, I agree that California could take steps to make the state much more business friendly.
What give away more? The post secondary schools in Texas are second rate when compared to California. Oracle has decided to get the second or third tier student by moving to Texas.
Oracle are they first tier in tech anymore? they won’t find what they need in the Southeastern part of the USA. The west coast prominence doesn’t come from giving away freebies (southeast), the social part, environment, great post-secondary schools, and tolerance plays a big part those don’t exist in the American south or in most of the world.
That’s a rather provincial and elitist view of Texas and middle America. And I’ll tell you, you’re wrong. Austin in particular is a powerhouse culturally with its vibrant music scene, its thriving tech industry, and universities. Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio have their own powerful draws for people and business. Do not underestimate the people and the place.
California has its venture capital class, which has given it its edge. But the more industries that take their businesses out of California, the more venture capitalists will follow in exodus. California is living on borrowed time with its willful destruction of its key power infrastructure, resulting in lower-income-unfriendly skyrocketing energy prices. It’s extraordinarily high tax rate and industry crushing regulation has put manufacturing on its knees, driving countless numbers out of work and out of state.
The ethical consequences of wealthy suburban white color desk bound workers dominating the politics of environmental over the economic security of the working class are clear and it does not look good.
California economy is nearly 40% larger than Texas and more diverse to boot, and the post-secondary schools are on another level from what is in Texas, elitist? Yes, I’m much better off being in Cali instead of Tennessee and Texas thank you mom, dad for getting out of those backward hellhole states.
Those that work for Oracle that end up in Texas will be getting a pay cut for moving, cause it’s cheaper you know, well at least it isn’t Florida.
Oracle on Friday announced that it would be moving its headquarters from the San Francisco Bay Area in California to Austin, Texas.
Credit: Oracle
The company said that the move would "best position Oracle for growth and provide our personnel with more flexibility about where and how the work," CNBCreported.
In addition to the headquarters move, the company is implementing a "more flexible" employee work location policy. A majority will be able to choose their office location or continue to work from home part or full time.
"In addition, we will continue to support major hubs for Oracle around the world, including those in the United States such as Redwood City, Austin, Santa Monica, Seattle, Denver, Orlando and Burlington, among others, and we expect to add other locations over time," the company said in a statement.
Oracle joins a growing list of tech companies leaving Silicon Valley. Earlier in December, Hewlett Packard Enterprise announced a move to Houston, Texas. Dropbox and Palantir Technologies are also in the midst of moving out of the Golden State.
Elon Musk recently moved to Texas, although his companies -- SpaceX and Tesla -- will maintain their primary operations in California.
Oracle is currently still in talks with Walmart, TikTok, and the U.S. government to acquire the U.S. operations of TikTok under a new company based in the country.
I’m so sick of Americans saying socialism is bad. Some even say it’s communism. They don’t even go beyond the label “socialism”, whereas democratic socialism is completely different from socialist countries in the past.
Coming from a Northern European country, we are capitalists rooted in democratic socialism. And our flavor of it is specific to ours. So with so many variety possible, stop saying “socialism” without explaining what YOU mean by it.
Musk and Oracle didn’t leave because of “socialism”. They left because of California’s laws (such as labor rules).
I have seen this before. Go ahead and move! Eventually your employees will leave your company and move back to the Golden State to start more successful and nimbler competitors. Their kids and spouses did not like the new climate especially the weather and social norms!
Unlike your new location, we still have the cleaner beaches, Hollywood, Disney Land, Open Spaces and Sun/Fun Diego just to name a few permanent entitlements. And by the way, our younger and better educated tech population do not like giving up the above or moving to far away from our gorgeous coast lines and beautiful unspoiled Mountains and Parks! You can move your company but its your employees and their happiness that really matters in the end! Sayonara, Adios, and Goodbye Oracle! 😜
Most employees will remain where they are or work from home. My own company, Dell, is based in Austin but has operations globally. This really doesn't change much. Companies will still pay state income taxes, on their local operations, and employees will still pay taxes in the state they reside. That said, I agree that California could take steps to make the state much more business friendly.
Not in CA. In CA, you pay income taxes on all income made in CA, no matter where you legally reside. If you reside in NV, with no State income taxes, then all your CA income is taxed in CA. If you reside in a State with a State income tax, then you get to deduct what State income taxes you paid in another State, from your CA income tax. In CA, one don't even have to set foot in CA, to be subject to CA income taxes.
In fact, if you are a resident of NV, worked in CA but also had income doing work in NV, CA will tax that NV income. Even if you are not a resident of CA based on where you live, CA consider you a tax resident based on where to make most of your income and thus all your income is subject to CA, tax as though you resided in CA. It is said that you have a better chance fighting the IRS than you do fighting CA Franchise Tax Board.
CA once taxed all CA pension, no matter what State the State workers moved to. CA is also trying to pass an "exit tax", where a wealthy person must still pay a portion of his wealth to CA, for ten years after moving out of CA.
CA do not consider you a resident of another State, for income tax purposes, until 18 months after moving out of CA. Even though you are a legal resident of another State after 6 months of living there.
If you move out of CA for say 2 years and made a lot of money from selling stocks from a portfolio you had while residing in CA, if you move back to CA, CA will go after you for back taxes. CA will claim that you only moved out of CA for tax avoidance purposes and you have always intended to return to CA.
Look up "jock tax', pertaining to profession athletes. If for e.g., Tim Harden was getting paid $500K per game, every time the Rockets plays a CA team in CA, he has to pay CA income tax on that income. It doesn't matter if he resides in TX. On the other hand, if Steph Curry was also getting paid $500K per game, then CA will tax him on every game he plays, no matter what State its played in. He gets to deduct any State taxes he pays in other States, but his entire income is subject to CA income taxes.
If The GSW plays the Rockets in TX, Tim Harden owes no TX State income taxes on the $500K he will make, but Steph Curry will have to pay CA State income taxes on all the $500K he made, because TX has no State income tax from which he had to pay. While with Tim Harden, only the games he played in CA are subject to CA taxes, with Steph Curry all the games he plays are subject to CA State income taxes. Unless he plays in NY, where the State and local taxes there might be the same or more than CA taxes.
Now for businesses, it's about the same. If your business headquarter resides in CA, then all your profits are subject to CA corporate taxes. If your headquarter resides outside CA, then only the profits you made in CA are subject to CA corporate taxes. So with Oracle moving their headquarter to TX, Oracle will only have to pay CA taxes on profits made in CA. The profits they make in other States will no longer to taxed by CA, though can be taxed by the States where the profit was made. But CA has one of the highest State corporate tax at 8.84%. So essentially, with a headquarter in CA, all your profits is subject to CA 8.84% State corporate tax, no matter which State you made the profit. And this don't include the high cost of operating a business in CA.
Not only is CA not tax friendly toward business, they are not too tax friendly toward its residents. At least those residents with taxable income. There is no capital gains tax in CA. All capital gains (long and short term) are considered ordinary income and thus can move your other income up the tax brackets. On the other hand, Feds tax long term capital gains at 15% (at least for my income level) and what long term capital gains I have will not drive my other ordinary income up the tax brackets. In other words, If I had income of $1,050,000 and $1,000,000 was from long term capital gains, the other $50,000 will be tax at the marginal tax rate for $50,000 and not at the marginal tax rate of $1,000,000. Not so in CA.
Two once mighty companies that are becoming more irrelevant with each passing day.
This is downsizing, plain and simple.
I’ve dealt with Oracle technologies for the better part of the last two decades. They basically threw away their advantage in database and ERP technologies by implementing ridiculously overpriced licensing agreements and not integrating their core products.
A company could be using Oracle database and Oracle Financials but one quickly saw that those two had no relation to each other, other than the name Oracle preceding each product.
Then came cloud services and again they dropped the ball on this. Ellison was initially mocking it until one day he decided that they were full in on the cloud, whatever that meant. By then, Amazon and Microsoft, were way out ahead of them in that area, not to mention that MS had already eaten their lunch in the database tech area.
So now a shrinking tech company is leaving California to save some $$$. I wish them luck.
I have a good friend from Texas and he always refers to Austin as a place where someone took a giant post hill digger, scooped up a chuck of California, and planted it firmly in Texas. Having spent quite a bit of time there, I understand the analogy. It doesn’t bother me in any way. Austin is a great place to visit, amazing food and an amazing music scene. The traffic will make you want to cry.
Most employees will remain where they are or work from home. My own company, Dell, is based in Austin but has operations globally. This really doesn't change much. Companies will still pay state income taxes, on their local operations, and employees will still pay taxes in the state they reside. That said, I agree that California could take steps to make the state much more business friendly.
What give away more? The post secondary schools in Texas are second rate when compared to California. Oracle has decided to get the second or third tier student by moving to Texas.
Oracle are they first tier in tech anymore? they won’t find what they need in the Southeastern part of the USA. The west coast prominence doesn’t come from giving away freebies (southeast), the social part, environment, great post-secondary schools, and tolerance plays a big part those don’t exist in the American south or in most of the world.
That’s a rather provincial and elitist view of Texas and middle America. And I’ll tell you, you’re wrong. Austin in particular is a powerhouse culturally with its vibrant music scene, its thriving tech industry, and universities. Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio have their own powerful draws for people and business. Do not underestimate the people and the place.
California has its venture capital class, which has given it its edge. But the more industries that take their businesses out of California, the more venture capitalists will follow in exodus. California is living on borrowed time with its willful destruction of its key power infrastructure, resulting in lower-income-unfriendly skyrocketing energy prices. It’s extraordinarily high tax rate and industry crushing regulation has put manufacturing on its knees, driving countless numbers out of work and out of state.
The ethical consequences of wealthy suburban white color desk bound workers dominating the politics of environmental over the economic security of the working class are clear and it does not look good.
California economy is nearly 40% larger than Texas and more diverse to boot, and the post-secondary schools are on another level from what is in Texas, elitist? Yes, I’m much better off being in Cali instead of Tennessee and Texas thank you mom, dad for getting out of those backward hellhole states.
Those that work for Oracle that end up in Texas will be getting a pay cut for moving, cause it’s cheaper you know, well at least it isn’t Florida.
Wow. Doubling down on elitism and provincialism. Bravo! I didn’t see that coming.
Or, maybe you need to travel more outside your bubble.
Arizona turned Blue because of the exodus from California. Texas is next due to the same effect.
Same thing happened in Colorado.
People leave CA because of what they created. Move to other states and start the same thing all over again.
It’s a cancer.
Oh, and I still chuckle at the plea from New York Governor Andrew Cuomo for wealthy people to return to Manhattan even as the Democrat party is pushing for higher taxes on the wealthy. Atlas is finally shrugging.
Biden lost Texas by only 4 percent. Beto lost the Texas senate race by 2 percent. More young techies and Californians moving to Texas means that we may never have a Republican president or senate majority in the near future.
Most employees will remain where they are or work from home. My own company, Dell, is based in Austin but has operations globally. This really doesn't change much. Companies will still pay state income taxes, on their local operations, and employees will still pay taxes in the state they reside. That said, I agree that California could take steps to make the state much more business friendly.
What give away more? The post secondary schools in Texas are second rate when compared to California. Oracle has decided to get the second or third tier student by moving to Texas.
Oracle are they first tier in tech anymore? they won’t find what they need in the Southeastern part of the USA. The west coast prominence doesn’t come from giving away freebies (southeast), the social part, environment, great post-secondary schools, and tolerance plays a big part those don’t exist in the American south or in most of the world.
That’s a rather provincial and elitist view of Texas and middle America. And I’ll tell you, you’re wrong. Austin in particular is a powerhouse culturally with its vibrant music scene, its thriving tech industry, and universities. Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio have their own powerful draws for people and business. Do not underestimate the people and the place.
California has its venture capital class, which has given it its edge. But the more industries that take their businesses out of California, the more venture capitalists will follow in exodus. California is living on borrowed time with its willful destruction of its key power infrastructure, resulting in lower-income-unfriendly skyrocketing energy prices. It’s extraordinarily high tax rate and industry crushing regulation has put manufacturing on its knees, driving countless numbers out of work and out of state.
The ethical consequences of wealthy suburban white color desk bound workers dominating the politics of environmental over the economic security of the working class are clear and it does not look good.
California economy is nearly 40% larger than Texas and more diverse to boot, and the post-secondary schools are on another level from what is in Texas, elitist? Yes, I’m much better off being in Cali instead of Tennessee and Texas thank you mom, dad for getting out of those backward hellhole states.
Those that work for Oracle that end up in Texas will be getting a pay cut for moving, cause it’s cheaper you know, well at least it isn’t Florida.
Wow. Doubling down on elitism and provincialism. Bravo! I didn’t see that coming.
Or, maybe you need to travel more outside your bubble.
When it comes to Texas, Tennessee, yes sir, Jackie Robinson had in particular Texas and Fort Hood right worthless.... good luck Oracle employee’s another step lower on the tech ladder....
Comments
Would you define “tolerance” as promoting stereotypes ?
If so, you win..... you are extremely “tolerant”.
California used to be more moderate. Remember Pete Wilson?
When was the last time you heard a progressive Democrat abandon their ideas in favor of conservatism?
Pete Wilson turned California blue by alienating every Mexican-American in sight, Arizona is going the same way.
Those that work for Oracle that end up in Texas will be getting a pay cut for moving, cause it’s cheaper you know, well at least it isn’t Florida.
Coming from a Northern European country, we are capitalists rooted in democratic socialism. And our flavor of it is specific to ours. So with so many variety possible, stop saying “socialism” without explaining what YOU mean by it.
Musk and Oracle didn’t leave because of “socialism”. They left because of California’s laws (such as labor rules).
I have seen this before. Go ahead and move! Eventually your employees will leave your company and move back to the Golden State to start more successful and nimbler competitors. Their kids and spouses did not like the new climate especially the weather and social norms!
Unlike your new location, we still have the cleaner beaches, Hollywood, Disney Land, Open Spaces and Sun/Fun Diego just to name a few permanent entitlements. And by the way, our younger and better educated tech population do not like giving up the above or moving to far away from our gorgeous coast lines and beautiful unspoiled Mountains and Parks! You can move your company but its your employees and their happiness that really matters in the end! Sayonara, Adios, and Goodbye Oracle! 😜
In fact, if you are a resident of NV, worked in CA but also had income doing work in NV, CA will tax that NV income. Even if you are not a resident of CA based on where you live, CA consider you a tax resident based on where to make most of your income and thus all your income is subject to CA, tax as though you resided in CA. It is said that you have a better chance fighting the IRS than you do fighting CA Franchise Tax Board.
CA once taxed all CA pension, no matter what State the State workers moved to. CA is also trying to pass an "exit tax", where a wealthy person must still pay a portion of his wealth to CA, for ten years after moving out of CA.
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/detail/california-wealth-and-exit-tax-would-be-an-unconstitutional-disaster
CA do not consider you a resident of another State, for income tax purposes, until 18 months after moving out of CA. Even though you are a legal resident of another State after 6 months of living there.
If you move out of CA for say 2 years and made a lot of money from selling stocks from a portfolio you had while residing in CA, if you move back to CA, CA will go after you for back taxes. CA will claim that you only moved out of CA for tax avoidance purposes and you have always intended to return to CA.
Look up "jock tax', pertaining to profession athletes. If for e.g., Tim Harden was getting paid $500K per game, every time the Rockets plays a CA team in CA, he has to pay CA income tax on that income. It doesn't matter if he resides in TX. On the other hand, if Steph Curry was also getting paid $500K per game, then CA will tax him on every game he plays, no matter what State its played in. He gets to deduct any State taxes he pays in other States, but his entire income is subject to CA income taxes.
If The GSW plays the Rockets in TX, Tim Harden owes no TX State income taxes on the $500K he will make, but Steph Curry will have to pay CA State income taxes on all the $500K he made, because TX has no State income tax from which he had to pay. While with Tim Harden, only the games he played in CA are subject to CA taxes, with Steph Curry all the games he plays are subject to CA State income taxes. Unless he plays in NY, where the State and local taxes there might be the same or more than CA taxes.
Now for businesses, it's about the same. If your business headquarter resides in CA, then all your profits are subject to CA corporate taxes. If your headquarter resides outside CA, then only the profits you made in CA are subject to CA corporate taxes. So with Oracle moving their headquarter to TX, Oracle will only have to pay CA taxes on profits made in CA. The profits they make in other States will no longer to taxed by CA, though can be taxed by the States where the profit was made. But CA has one of the highest State corporate tax at 8.84%. So essentially, with a headquarter in CA, all your profits is subject to CA 8.84% State corporate tax, no matter which State you made the profit. And this don't include the high cost of operating a business in CA.
Not only is CA not tax friendly toward business, they are not too tax friendly toward its residents. At least those residents with taxable income. There is no capital gains tax in CA. All capital gains (long and short term) are considered ordinary income and thus can move your other income up the tax brackets. On the other hand, Feds tax long term capital gains at 15% (at least for my income level) and what long term capital gains I have will not drive my other ordinary income up the tax brackets. In other words, If I had income of $1,050,000 and $1,000,000 was from long term capital gains, the other $50,000 will be tax at the marginal tax rate for $50,000 and not at the marginal tax rate of $1,000,000. Not so in CA.
Or, maybe you need to travel more outside your bubble.
Oh, and I still chuckle at the plea from New York Governor Andrew Cuomo for wealthy people to return to Manhattan even as the Democrat party is pushing for higher taxes on the wealthy. Atlas is finally shrugging.