"The most advanced military in the world"
What's the helicopter crash count now? Helicopters should be removed from military service if they only serve to contibute to our own death toll.
And what's this about attacking the caravan carrying the freaking Russian Ambassador? Does anyone communicate, or since this is "war" is a certain level of confusion acceptable? No. These people are idiots, plain and clear. If a Russian Ambassador is attacked, or an embassy bombed, or a coalition plane shot down by "friendly fire" then there should be a court-marshall. No exceptoins. It seems the military leaders are not taking responsibility for grave mistakes, and that is unacceptable. It is costing lives.
I found it funny that the Chinese Government had to specifically send the US their embassy's street address this time around. But they were definitely smart to have done so. At least they're covering their asses.
Anyone want to do the research? How many "friendly fire" incidents have there been now? It seems we are our greatest enemy here.
And you people think that Saddam bombed the marketplace himself. Right.
And what's this about attacking the caravan carrying the freaking Russian Ambassador? Does anyone communicate, or since this is "war" is a certain level of confusion acceptable? No. These people are idiots, plain and clear. If a Russian Ambassador is attacked, or an embassy bombed, or a coalition plane shot down by "friendly fire" then there should be a court-marshall. No exceptoins. It seems the military leaders are not taking responsibility for grave mistakes, and that is unacceptable. It is costing lives.
I found it funny that the Chinese Government had to specifically send the US their embassy's street address this time around. But they were definitely smart to have done so. At least they're covering their asses.
Anyone want to do the research? How many "friendly fire" incidents have there been now? It seems we are our greatest enemy here.
And you people think that Saddam bombed the marketplace himself. Right.
Comments
And, so far, despite acknowledging other accidents, the Pentagon denies the Russian incident.
It's a real problem all right. If you have a solution to it, tell it to the Marines.
Aries 1B
A few weeks ago one crashed in East Texas looking for pieces of the Columbia shuttle.
And since their "only" function isn't to crash we'll keep them.
And since you aren't the one dying because of them perhaps you should keep your outrage in check. Let those at risk decide.
Originally posted by tonton
What's the helicopter crash count now? Helicopters should be removed from military service if they only serve to contibute to our own death toll.
And what's this about attacking the caravan carrying the freaking Russian Ambassador? Does anyone communicate, or since this is "war" is a certain level of confusion acceptable? No. These people are idiots, plain and clear. If a Russian Ambassador is attacked, or an embassy bombed, or a coalition plane shot down by "friendly fire" then there should be a court-marshall. No exceptoins. It seems the military leaders are not taking responsibility for grave mistakes, and that is unacceptable. It is costing lives.
I found it funny that the Chinese Government had to specifically send the US their embassy's street address this time around. But they were definitely smart to have done so. At least they're covering their asses.
Anyone want to do the research? How many "friendly fire" incidents have there been now? It seems we are our greatest enemy here.
And you people think that Saddam bombed the marketplace himself. Right.
tonton, I could not help but notice your frustration with your post. I think we all wish nothing would go wrong in war but if you really think about it nothing goes 100% right with anything in life.
Fellows
As for 'collateral damage', the number of civilians we kill is way too high all things considered. With the technology we have we could verify every bombing target before blowing it up. The problem is there is more pressure on saving our own military then there is on saving civilians. That's a crime though, especially when one of the 'valid' reasons for going to war is to liberate and save said civilians.
As safe as our military is, it's still irresponsible.
I mean, if that were the case, the (NY) Rangers would have at least made the playoffs, right?
I think those who claim our military is careless and irresponsible have absolutely no idea what the military does and in what conditions it does its work. Welcome to war. War is always ugly, and no amount of sophistication can eliminate this fact. Those who expect no civilian tragedies and no mistakes are dellusional or at least have very unrealistic expectations. Sorry.
I'm sure there are those who think these soldiers don't care, or are happy about these things too. That's a case of invention -- inventing a "bad guy" persona in these soldiers to meet the inventor's own agenda. I'm not saying that every soldier is a boy scout, but it is a cynical assumption to say the least. Sorry for that too.
that's 76 dead, total of 250,000+. at most that's 0.03% of our troops have died from anything. we're averaging approx. 5 deaths per day of the war. that's 0.002% per day.
as for civilian casualities? it's hovering around 0.004%
Originally posted by bunge
First, I imagine the number of 'enemies' we kill with heliocopters is far greater then the number of our own troops that die in them. I imagine they do their job really well.
If by "enemies" you mean "Saddam's death squads" then I'm sure you're right.
Originally posted by bunge
As for 'collateral damage', the number of civilians we kill is way too high all things considered.
Which all things are those. Like "considering all the lies of the Iraqi government which I lap up like sweet milk the number of civilians we kill is way too high". Or what?
Originally posted by bunge
With the technology we have we could verify every bombing target before blowing it up.
You're in fantasy land
Originally posted by bunge
The problem is there is more pressure on saving our own military then there is on saving civilians. That's a crime though, especially when one of the 'valid' reasons for going to war is to liberate and save said civilians.
As safe as our military is, it's still irresponsible.
Yea that's why our medics are treating more of their people than ours. That's why our guys get ambushed when they Iraqis wave a white flag. That's why our guys throw themselves on top of women when Saddam's death squads are firing on civilians. 'cause, you know, we are just too careless and brutal.
Maybe you should take a fresh look at how far the US goes to spare lives. You're extreme anti-americanism is clouding your judgment in this area.
Originally posted by tonton
What's the helicopter crash count now? Helicopters should be removed from military service if they only serve to contibute to our own death toll.
And what's this about attacking the caravan carrying the freaking Russian Ambassador? Does anyone communicate, or since this is "war" is a certain level of confusion acceptable? No. These people are idiots, plain and clear. If a Russian Ambassador is attacked, or an embassy bombed, or a coalition plane shot down by "friendly fire" then there should be a court-marshall. No exceptoins. It seems the military leaders are not taking responsibility for grave mistakes, and that is unacceptable. It is costing lives.
I found it funny that the Chinese Government had to specifically send the US their embassy's street address this time around. But they were definitely smart to have done so. At least they're covering their asses.
Anyone want to do the research? How many "friendly fire" incidents have there been now? It seems we are our greatest enemy here.
And you people think that Saddam bombed the marketplace himself. Right.
I agree that helicopters and V22s crash way too often. But, being that we're the only brave souls that stand up to tyrants, I guess it'll have to do. My dad's ship, CV-7 had a design flaw in the way air was in the fuel tanks. When the torpedo hit it, it went up like a roman candle some 60 years ago. But, they improved the design and I'm sure they will on helicopters and the like, as well.
Just think if Saddam had given up, how many fewer lives, dollars and worthless internet posts would have been saved.
Originally posted by BRussell
I think the reason it seems like there are a lot of friendly fire and accidental deaths is that there are so few combat deaths. I wonder what the friendly fire and accidental death rates are for others, such as the Iraqis. I bet they're at least as high.
And, so far, despite acknowledging other accidents, the Pentagon denies the Russian incident.
That is precisely the case.
As for the Russian convoy, the Russian journalists indicated they were stuck in a crossfire between coalition and Iraqi forces.
Originally posted by groverat
Helicopters crash. They are giant hollow metal balls sitting underneath whirling blades. It's amazing more don't crash.
A few weeks ago one crashed in East Texas looking for pieces of the Columbia shuttle.
And since their "only" function isn't to crash we'll keep them.
And since you aren't the one dying because of them perhaps you should keep your outrage in check. Let those at risk decide.
Yeah, do a search for "helicopter crash" on CNN.com and it'll be plainly apparent that tonton's jab at the military is FUD. Whether you're Jeff Bezos, a rescue team approaching Mt. Hood, or a traffic reporter, it doesn't matter. Helicopters are complex machines, period...it has nothing to do with the military.
"the fundamental difference between a plane and a helicopter is that a plane wants to fly, a helicoptor wants to crash"
In peace time training, its easier not to make mistakes as there is no threat of danger. but in a war, one is bound to make mistakes due to the stress and urgency of the situation.
We should not balme them, but hope they learn from their mistakes. This kind of death is unavoidable, but not warranted.
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
If you want to bitch about military helicopters bitch about the ****ing Osprey boondoggle. ****ing military and ****ing Boeing with one ****ed up aircraft which is ****ing the taxpayer in the ****ing ass.
Well, the program is cancelled. . . but I digress.
The V-22 was a good idea, though. Too bad our computer systems weren't quite good enough.