Intel targets M1 weaknesses in 'You're not on a Mac' ad campaign

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 126
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,290member
    This puzzles me. 

    The threat to Intel isn't Apple as a manufacturer, it's the viability of ARM as a general-purpose CPU platform. 

    Going after Apple is an extremely short-term strategy. Is the thinking really trying to drive Apple into failure and thus deny ARM its status as a legitimate option? 

    That can't be the idea.
    narwhalwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 126
    Most people are looking at these first Apple Silicon Macs wrong - these aren't Apple's powerhouse machines: they're simply the annual spec bump of the lowest end Apple computers with DCI-P3 displays, Wifi 6, and now with the new Apple Silicon M1 SoC.

    They have the same limitations as the machines they replace - 16 GB RAM and two Thunderbolt ports.

    These are the machines you give to a student or teacher or a lawyer or an accountant or a work-at-home information worker - folks who need a decently performing machine with decent build quality who don't want to lug around a huge powerhouse machine (or pay for one for that matter). They're still marketed at the same market segment, though they now have a vastly expanded compute power envelope.

    The real powerhouses will probably come later this year with the M1x (or whatever). Apple has yet to decide on an external memory interconnect and multichannel PCIe scheme, if they decide to move in that direction.

    Other CPU and GPU vendors and OEM computer makers take notice - your businesses are now on limited life support. These new Apple Silicon models can compete speed-wise up through the mid-high tier of computer purchases, and if as I expect Apple sells a ton of these many will be to your bread and butter customers.

    In fact, I suspect that Apple - once they recover their R&D costs - will be pushing the prices of these machines lower while still maintaining their margins - while competing computer makers will still have to pay Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, and nVidea for their expensive processors, whereas Apple's cost goes down the more they manufacture. Competing computer makers may soon be squeezed by Apple Silicon price/performance on one side and high component prices on the other.  Expect them to be demanding lower processor prices from the above manufacturers so they can more readily compete, and processor manufacturers may have to comply because if OEM computer manufacturers go under or stop making competing models, the processor makers will see a diminishing customer base.

    I believe the biggest costs for a chip fab are startup costs - no matter what processor vendors would like you to believe. Design and fab startup are expensive - but once you start getting decent yields, the additional costs are silicon wafers and QA. The more of these units Apple can move, the lower the per unit cost and the better the profits.

    So ... who should buy these M1 Macs?

    If you're in the target demographic - the student, teacher, lawyer, accountant, or work-at-home information worker: this is the Mac for you.

    If you're a heavy computer user like a creative and don't simply want a light and cheap computer with some additional video and sound editing capability for use on the go - I'd wait for the M1x (or whatever) later this year. You'll probably kick yourself when the machines targeted at you finally appear.
    jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 126
    Rayz2016 said:
    Strange. 

    The ads go with an aggressive, pushy tone that doesn’t mention the chips. Instead, they go with the idea that a generic PC is better than a Mac. Presumably they’re including AMD machines in this PC soup. 

    Sounds like they’ve thrown in the towel on performance and are going to focus on the touted advantages of PCs (the lack of a touch screen on the a Mac is nothing to do with it no longer having an Intel chip)
    EXACTLY. They are touting Windows advantages that have nothing to do with their chips. If you choose Windows because you want to play PC games or want a convertible tablet, don’t go with intel, go with AMD.

    this advertising campaign is just a big exercise in whataboutism
    wshuff4narwhalwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 126
    KTR said:
    Interesting how they didn't mentioned that you can run smartphone software on an intel base pc.  At least this is something is POSSIBLE on a M1 mac.  Guess someone should go on intel home pare and mentioned this lol
    You can run Android applications on a PC if you want to with Bluestacks. Works on a Mac too, if their home page is to be believed.

    I've never used it, but I've seen it frequently recommended on a forum I participate in.  Some people want to run a service they subscribe to on PC, instead of on a mobile device or tablet (or an actual treadmill/cycle/rower/elliptical)
    edited February 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 126
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,290member
    Most people are looking at these first Apple Silicon Macs wrong - these aren't Apple's powerhouse machines: they're simply the annual spec bump of the lowest end Apple computers with DCI-P3 displays, Wifi 6, and now with the new Apple Silicon M1 SoC.

    They have the same limitations as the machines they replace - 16 GB RAM and two Thunderbolt ports.

    These are the machines you give to a student or teacher or a lawyer or an accountant or a work-at-home information worker - folks who need a decently performing machine with decent build quality who don't want to lug around a huge powerhouse machine (or pay for one for that matter). They're still marketed at the same market segment, though they now have a vastly expanded compute power envelope.

    The real powerhouses will probably come later this year with the M1x (or whatever). Apple has yet to decide on an external memory interconnect and multichannel PCIe scheme, if they decide to move in that direction.

    Other CPU and GPU vendors and OEM computer makers take notice - your businesses are now on limited life support. These new Apple Silicon models can compete speed-wise up through the mid-high tier of computer purchases, and if as I expect Apple sells a ton of these many will be to your bread and butter customers.

    In fact, I suspect that Apple - once they recover their R&D costs - will be pushing the prices of these machines lower while still maintaining their margins - while competing computer makers will still have to pay Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, and nVidea for their expensive processors, whereas Apple's cost goes down the more they manufacture. Competing computer makers may soon be squeezed by Apple Silicon price/performance on one side and high component prices on the other.  Expect them to be demanding lower processor prices from the above manufacturers so they can more readily compete, and processor manufacturers may have to comply because if OEM computer manufacturers go under or stop making competing models, the processor makers will see a diminishing customer base.

    I believe the biggest costs for a chip fab are startup costs - no matter what processor vendors would like you to believe. Design and fab startup are expensive - but once you start getting decent yields, the additional costs are silicon wafers and QA. The more of these units Apple can move, the lower the per unit cost and the better the profits.

    So ... who should buy these M1 Macs?

    If you're in the target demographic - the student, teacher, lawyer, accountant, or work-at-home information worker: this is the Mac for you.

    If you're a heavy computer user like a creative and don't simply want a light and cheap computer with some additional video and sound editing capability for use on the go - I'd wait for the M1x (or whatever) later this year. You'll probably kick yourself when the machines targeted at you finally appear.
    Nice text, and I agree with you — even if you post the exact blurb, verbatim, across multiple websites/comment pages.

    But what does this have to do with Intel's advertising campaign? 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 126
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,290member

    blastdoor said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Strange. 

    The ads go with an aggressive, pushy tone that doesn’t mention the chips. Instead, they go with the idea that a generic PC is better than a Mac. Presumably they’re including AMD machines in this PC soup. 

    Sounds like they’ve thrown in the towel on performance and are going to focus on the touted advantages of PCs (the lack of a touch screen on the a Mac is nothing to do with it no longer having an Intel chip)
    EXACTLY. They are touting Windows advantages that have nothing to do with their chips. If you choose Windows because you want to play PC games or want a convertible tablet, don’t go with intel, go with AMD.

    this advertising campaign is just a big exercise in whataboutism
    Five years from now, generic PCs and Windows will be running on ARM, not Intel. Keeping people on Windows is going to do nothing for Intel except maybe buy a little more time.
    narwhalwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 126
    It is ridiculous and in the same time very painful for a company like Intel, with more than 30 years experience with creating of computer chips, to compare it self with a company which just released its first one. It only shows, how good the Apple’s M1 chip is.
    But with the defending the quality of its own computer chips in this ad, Intel is trying also to reduce the pressure from the PC companies, which are demanding better chips from Intel, in order to be able to compete with the Apple’s M1.
    And for Apple, this is just the beginning.........
    edited February 2021 narwhalwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 126
    DuhSesame said:
    DuhSesame said:
    Isn't it a basic rule that you punch up not down when adverting? When you are trying to argue that you are as good or better than something  you are admitting that the something is the thing to beat. So they are reinforcing the fact/perception that Apple is the chip designer to beat.

    A side note on Appleinsider's position on Intel:

    Appleinsder describing Intel on Jan 15th 2021:
    “ The previously dominant processor giant is slipping into obscurity fast"

    Appleinsider describing Intel on Feb 11th 2021:
    "With Intel in a dominant position -- at least for now -- in the chipmaking industry"

    According to AI, Intel's position in the world has improved dramatically in the last month. 


    Well are they?
    Anyone with proper knowledge about processors are going to buy it?
    If you just said “x86 got a better environment” as a processor company, you might just say nothing at all.
    No clue where you going with that or what it had to do with my comment. 
    There’s no “punch up not down” for them at all.  The better way to do right now is shut up and build better processors.
    In the context of advertising, which is what I’m talking about, attacking a smaller player is punching down while attacking a bigger one is punching up. Generally speaking punching down is seen as a bad route to go as it gives credence to the smaller player. 

    Intel is a bit bigger in the PC space than Apple so they are most certainly punching down. Conversely when Apple did switcher and Mac vs PC ads they were punching up. You will notice Apple doesn’t punch down once it takes a more dominate position and just advertises on the strengths of their products. They didn’t respond when Microsoft and Samsung ran attack ads on the iPhone because it would have only served to elevate those products. They don’t make  attack ads for the Apple Watch, AirPods ... because they don’t need to elevate them to their status. 

    Intel is absolutely punching down and it’s a really stupid idea. Unless your Apple, for Apple it is great as it is basically free advertising for the Mac. 


  • Reply 29 of 126
    neilmneilm Posts: 964member
    Intel would do better to focus on getting their own house in order. Otherwise they risk becoming the BlackBerry of microprocessors.
    mike1uraharawatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 126
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 2,920member
    spheric said:

    blastdoor said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Strange. 

    The ads go with an aggressive, pushy tone that doesn’t mention the chips. Instead, they go with the idea that a generic PC is better than a Mac. Presumably they’re including AMD machines in this PC soup. 

    Sounds like they’ve thrown in the towel on performance and are going to focus on the touted advantages of PCs (the lack of a touch screen on the a Mac is nothing to do with it no longer having an Intel chip)
    EXACTLY. They are touting Windows advantages that have nothing to do with their chips. If you choose Windows because you want to play PC games or want a convertible tablet, don’t go with intel, go with AMD.

    this advertising campaign is just a big exercise in whataboutism
    Five years from now, generic PCs and Windows will be running on ARM, not Intel. Keeping people on Windows is going to do nothing for Intel except maybe buy a little more time.
    Maybe. That would require somebody — most likely Qualcomm or Nvidia — to design ARM chips that beat Intel and AMD. That could happen but it’s not certain. Those guys are probably more interested in servers than client PCs. 

    Another possibility is that the PC ends up like Android, with an inferior processor but most PC users not knowing or caring. I actually think this is most likely.

    Another possibility is that Intel or AMD starts changing the x86 ISA to make it more competitive with ARM. They could include 1 or 2 “compatibility cores” that use the full, old ISA and then lots of modern cores that use a more RISC-like ISA. The OS would need to know what to send where, but I imagine MS would cooperate.

    The thing that could really light a fire under Wintel is Apple jumping in with both feet on Mac gaming. I think there are tons of people who would happily go Mac if the games they want to play were available. Apple should buy Aspyr and spend a few billion getting all the AAA games running great on the Mac. It’s low hanging fruit 
    muthuk_vanalingamOfernarwhalwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 126
    It’s 2021 and people are still taking this seriously....

    Maybe we need to stop taking sides and enjoy the freedom of choice?
  • Reply 32 of 126
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,290member
    blastdoor said:

    The thing that could really light a fire under Wintel is Apple jumping in with both feet on Mac gaming. I think there are tons of people who would happily go Mac if the games they want to play were available. Apple should buy Aspyr and spend a few billion getting all the AAA games running great on the Mac. It’s low hanging fruit 
    Don't Apple already own the biggest, most profitable gaming platform in the world (iOS)? PC gaming has 23% global market share, while Apple has already made their new machines largely compatible with iOS gaming. 

    THAT was the "low-hanging fruit". 

    Competing with a market of specialised gaming rigs is a far more complex endeavour, and a constantly moving target. I doubt Apple has any more real interest in this than they have had for the past twenty-five years (despite recurrent lip-service and the occasional "sensational" revelation — HALO was supposed to be Mac-only).
    Oferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 126
    Why does my laptop need to power a rocket launch? My phone works just fine without running x86 instructions. If performing rocket launches was a common or important requirement, then wouldn't the software be ported (or rosetta)?

    These taglines sort of all apart if you give it any more than superficial consideration. Maybe ads don't have to though.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 126
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Pretty good campaign tbh.  Pithy and easy to understand.
  • Reply 35 of 126
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,097member
    Not seeing the connection between these ads and M1 chips.  Seems like they target Macs in general. 
    narwhalwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 126
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,097member
    Resorting to stats.
    Stats are always for losers.
    People can see that.
    -Haiku

    Apple’s pages are full of stats. Does that make them losers too?
    "full of stats" ???    I don't think so. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 126
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,135member
    Isn't it a basic rule that you punch up not down when adverting? When you are trying to argue that you are as good or better than something  you are admitting that the something is the thing to beat. So they are reinforcing the fact/perception that Apple is the chip designer to beat.

    A side note on Appleinsider's position on Intel:

    Appleinsder describing Intel on Jan 15th 2021:
     The previously dominant processor giant is slipping into obscurity fast"

    Appleinsider describing Intel on Feb 11th 2021:
    "
    With Intel in a dominant position -- at least for now -- in the chipmaking industry"

    According to AI, Intel's position in the world has improved dramatically in the last month. 



    Yep. Generally, you avoid disparaging your customer or competitor. (Political ads being the exception lately)
    Several years ago, when iPhones were really hitting their stride, Samsung ignored this rule. They actually released commercials ridiculing the people waiting outside for the launch of a new iPhone (5 or 6 I believe). Probably not a good idea to make fun of the very customers you are trying to attract.
    edited February 2021 muthuk_vanalingamRayz2016narwhalwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 126
    Usually I see government industrial subsidy as a good thing but… I have a question. Five years ago the technology to do what TSMC was doing existed since as they were doing it. Instead, the US chip companies rested on there laurels, thinking what they were doing as good enough and could not even develop the capability to do what TSMC was doing. Now the IS chip companies are 5 years behind and crying for help from the government to do what they couldn’t/didn’t do 5 years ago.  So, why were they not developing this technology 5 years ago? Then  would have continued to be a leader in the industry and not require government assistance to catch up. (This from a life long liberal)
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 126
    If your laptop doubles as a space heater, you’re not on a Mac.
    edited February 2021 Rayz2016firelockwatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 126
    mike1 said:
    Isn't it a basic rule that you punch up not down when adverting? When you are trying to argue that you are as good or better than something  you are admitting that the something is the thing to beat. So they are reinforcing the fact/perception that Apple is the chip designer to beat.

    A side note on Appleinsider's position on Intel:

    Appleinsder describing Intel on Jan 15th 2021:
    “ The previously dominant processor giant is slipping into obscurity fast"

    Appleinsider describing Intel on Feb 11th 2021:
    "With Intel in a dominant position -- at least for now -- in the chipmaking industry"

    According to AI, Intel's position in the world has improved dramatically in the last month. 



    Yep. Generally, you avoid disparaging your customer or competitor. (Political ads being the exception lately)
    Several years ago, when iPhones were really hitting their stride, Samsung ignored this rule. They actually released commercials ridiculing the people waiting outside for the launch of a new iPhone (5 or 6 I believe). Probably not a good idea to make fun of the very customers you are trying to attract.
    I felt like the Samsung ads weren't trying to win over iPhone customers so much as people that were buying non-Samsung Android devices. But in the end it's still crappy advertising because it saying "Look! We are as good or better than the iPhone" so it automatically means the customer that may not be considering an iPhone should be. Samsung continued past those ads as well. They mocked dropping the headphone jack and the notch. And what has happened? Samsung's marketshare declined from 2012 and Apple has stayed steady. It's just a really bad approach to Advertising unless are the underdog. 
    edited February 2021
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