EU winding down Apple Music antitrust investigation, charges expected

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 39
    This is why there are no tech companies - outside of Spotify whose behavior is horrendous - in the EU.

    The more I read of the EU, the more I agree with the UK about getting out of Fortress Europe.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 39
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,614member
    I disagree that Apple has a monopoly. Apple has achieved a huge mindshare advantage in the markets they serve because of their superior execution against their plans.

     To be a monopoly they would have had to unfairly acquired access to a finite resource, such as right of way for running train tracks or mineral rights in a specific area. If they were a monopoly they would have acquired smaller competitors and imposed restrictions that lock customers into their platform, with no opportunity for customers to move to other platforms.

     Apple may look like a monopoly due to their amazing success and because they did not give up or throw in the towel when faced with daunting challenges. But what finite resource does Apple have that they unfairly acquired or denied their competitors? If fortitude and resolve were a finite resource I guess they’d be guilty.

     But punishing Apple for their success in markets that have exponential growth potential due to network effects is primitive and backward thinking. Apple’s success, much like Google’s and Amazon’s, needs to be measured using a different measuring stick than what worked 50 or 100 years ago. What may have looked like a monopoly 50 years ago in a largely disconnected economy is today simply a company taking advantage of the new possibilities that we’ve spent decades putting in place.

     Companies that are losers under the new normal are the ones who don’t deserve to win. No consolation prizes for losers.
    edited March 5 pscooter63n2itivguyanantksundaramuraharawatto_cobraradarthekat
  • Reply 23 of 39
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,614member
    This is why there are no tech companies - outside of Spotify whose behavior is horrendous - in the EU.

    The more I read of the EU, the more I agree with the UK about getting out of Fortress Europe.

    So you've never heard of Siemens, ABB, Schneider-Electric, Airbus, Kuka Robotics, Bosch, ... just to name a few of many amazing tech companies based in the EU who are doing remarkably well.

    Spotify has around 5,500 employees. Siemens has around 380,000 employees. ABB has around 145,000 employees. Schneider-Electric has around 130,000 employees. Bosch has almost 400,000 employees.

    I think you're missing the forest surrounding a relatively small clump of trees.
    edited March 5 muthuk_vanalingamdope_ahmine
  • Reply 24 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,765member
    This is why there are no tech companies - outside of Spotify whose behavior is horrendous - in the EU.

    The more I read of the EU, the more I agree with the UK about getting out of Fortress Europe.
    What? 

    https://www.information-age.com/value-of-european-tech-companies-soars-to-e618-billion-123492448/
    muthuk_vanalingamurahara
  • Reply 25 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,765member
    dewme said:
    This is why there are no tech companies - outside of Spotify whose behavior is horrendous - in the EU.

    The more I read of the EU, the more I agree with the UK about getting out of Fortress Europe.

    So you've never heard of Siemens, ABB, Schneider-Electric, Airbus, Kuka Robotics, Bosch, ... just to name a few of many amazing tech companies based in the EU who are doing remarkably well.

    Spotify has around 5,500 employees. Siemens has around 380,000 employees. ABB has around 145,000 employees. Schneider-Electric has around 130,000 employees. Bosch has almost 400,000 employees.

    I think you're missing the forest surrounding a relatively small clump of trees.
    Allow me to add SAP to your nice list. 
    dewmemuthuk_vanalingamurahara
  • Reply 26 of 39
    jumejume Posts: 206member
    hexclock said:
    dewme said:
    1. Apple builds a platform (at great expense).
    2. Apple opens up its platform to allow 3rd party content.
    3. Third party joins the platform by agreeing to the terms & conditions defined by the platform owner, i.e., Apple.
    4. Third party content provider decides they no longer like being treated as a guest in the owner's home.
    5. Third party content provider runs crying to their daddy, the EU protectionism squad.
    6. Daddy comes over, sues the platform owner, and beats them up with the protectionism stick of justice.

    Maybe I'm living in a warped reality, but this is like inviting a guest into your home and then having them sue you because you didn't allow them to sleep in your bed, use your bathroom, soil your towels, play with your dog, drink your booze, or drive your car. The court then intervenes and forces you to grant your "first party" or "owner" privileges to the third party.

    There used to be a time when ownership had its privileges. Apparently, or at least within the scope of EU protectionist policies, ownership means nothing. The EU thinks they own it all and the creators, architects, builders, and investors in platforms that cost huge sums of time, money, and resources are there merely to serve the state and its hapless minions who cannot create anything by themselves.

    This is nothing more than a culture of pathetic losers.


    Socialists don’t believe in private ownership, nor individuality. 
    Sure yes we are socialists ... At list we are not freezing to death when -10 deg. C hits the continent, nor hit with 18.000 USD electricity bills, and at list everyone can afford top notch healthcare.

    Long live the USA's capitalism that will save us all. 
    edited March 5 muthuk_vanalingamuraharadope_ahmine
  • Reply 27 of 39
    jumejume Posts: 206member

    The more I read of the EU, the more I agree with the UK about getting out of Fortress Europe.
    Yeah if you would just travel to the UK and ask young working people (20-50y olders) what they have to say about how great it is in the UK since they left the EU. It is a mess and people were fucked over with Brexit by a right-wing populists and Trump'ists. 
    uraharamuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 28 of 39
    croprcropr Posts: 1,046member
    cropr said: A company like Spotify is paying for a secure payment system around 2% for credit cards transactions and 0.5% for debit cards transactions.  The marginal cost for a global software distribution center for its iOS app is about zero, Spotify has already set up a secured distribution center for the Windows, Linux and Mac versions of its app.  Comparing this to the 15% to 30% Apple is charging, I cannot call this a small price.  
    As many people have explained before, the App Store isn't just providing a payment system or a distribution system. Apple created the OS and the hardware too. They created the tools for developers to create the apps with. They're not a middleman like a credit card company or an internet host. Trying to use those kinds of comparisons is disingenuous. 
    Indeed, the developers are paying for the hardware and the tools at market prices, so your point is totally irrelevant in this discussion
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 29 of 39
    uraharaurahara Posts: 530member
    cropr said:
    cropr said: A company like Spotify is paying for a secure payment system around 2% for credit cards transactions and 0.5% for debit cards transactions.  The marginal cost for a global software distribution center for its iOS app is about zero, Spotify has already set up a secured distribution center for the Windows, Linux and Mac versions of its app.  Comparing this to the 15% to 30% Apple is charging, I cannot call this a small price.  
    As many people have explained before, the App Store isn't just providing a payment system or a distribution system. Apple created the OS and the hardware too. They created the tools for developers to create the apps with. They're not a middleman like a credit card company or an internet host. Trying to use those kinds of comparisons is disingenuous. 
    Indeed, the developers are paying for the hardware and the tools at market prices, so your point is totally irrelevant in this discussion
    It seems like you misunderstood his point. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 39
    This is why there are no tech companies - outside of Spotify whose behavior is horrendous - in the EU.

    The more I read of the EU, the more I agree with the UK about getting out of Fortress Europe.
    Yeah, we should all get out of our union fortresses. Let’s just split EU and UK and USA up into individual states. That will be sooo much better …especially for China and Russia that will easily eat us all for breakfast then. Get a brain and screw it in for gods sake. We need to unite, not divide outselves.
    edited March 5 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 31 of 39
    gc_ukgc_uk Posts: 113member
    If I were Apple I would start off by asking the EU: "Under what EU law does Apple even need to sell third party software that competes directly with Apple's own software?"
    That isn't even what the complaint is about. Stop trying to score political points.
  • Reply 32 of 39
    gc_ukgc_uk Posts: 113member

    dewme said:
    1. Apple builds a platform (at great expense).
    2. Apple opens up its platform to allow 3rd party content.
    3. Third party joins the platform by agreeing to the terms & conditions defined by the platform owner, i.e., Apple.
    4. Third party content provider decides they no longer like being treated as a guest in the owner's home.
    5. Third party content provider runs crying to their daddy, the EU protectionism squad.
    6. Daddy comes over, sues the platform owner, and beats them up with the protectionism stick of justice.


    Not what the case is about, but keep on trying with straw man arguments.
  • Reply 33 of 39
    gc_ukgc_uk Posts: 113member
    EU = the land of the Self Entitled Freeloading Losers....
    and US seems to want to follow suit in total ignorance! 


    Yawn
  • Reply 34 of 39
    gc_ukgc_uk Posts: 113member
    hexclock said:

    Socialists don’t believe in private ownership, nor individuality. 
    Which countries in the EU are socialists?
  • Reply 35 of 39
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,310member
    EU = the land of the Self Entitled Freeloading Losers....
    and US seems to want to follow suit in total ignorance! 


    That's why the UK got the hell out.
  • Reply 36 of 39
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,350moderator
    jume said:
    hexclock said:
    dewme said:
    1. Apple builds a platform (at great expense).
    2. Apple opens up its platform to allow 3rd party content.
    3. Third party joins the platform by agreeing to the terms & conditions defined by the platform owner, i.e., Apple.
    4. Third party content provider decides they no longer like being treated as a guest in the owner's home.
    5. Third party content provider runs crying to their daddy, the EU protectionism squad.
    6. Daddy comes over, sues the platform owner, and beats them up with the protectionism stick of justice.

    Maybe I'm living in a warped reality, but this is like inviting a guest into your home and then having them sue you because you didn't allow them to sleep in your bed, use your bathroom, soil your towels, play with your dog, drink your booze, or drive your car. The court then intervenes and forces you to grant your "first party" or "owner" privileges to the third party.

    There used to be a time when ownership had its privileges. Apparently, or at least within the scope of EU protectionist policies, ownership means nothing. The EU thinks they own it all and the creators, architects, builders, and investors in platforms that cost huge sums of time, money, and resources are there merely to serve the state and its hapless minions who cannot create anything by themselves.

    This is nothing more than a culture of pathetic losers.


    Socialists don’t believe in private ownership, nor individuality. 
    Sure yes we are socialists ... At list we are not freezing to death when -10 deg. C hits the continent, nor hit with 18.000 USD electricity bills, and at list everyone can afford top notch healthcare.

    Long live the USA's capitalism that will save us all. 
    Is that 70,000 figure correct?  That’s a lot of deaths from temperatures that aren’t unusual in the American southwest...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave
  • Reply 37 of 39
    What an anti-EU sentiment on this forum by a bunch of Americans who look at the world in two dimensions. 
    Unbelievable, considering how America has been screwing up most of pretty much everything.
    Most seem not even to know what democratic socialism is, and the fact that capitalism is also very much a part of society in EU countries. For  Americans it seems to be a lot of “this versus that”. 
    edited March 6 gc_ukmuthuk_vanalingamcrowley
  • Reply 38 of 39
    gc_ukgc_uk Posts: 113member
    What an anti-EU sentiment on this forum by a bunch of Americans who look at the world in two dimensions. 
    Unbelievable, considering how America has been screwing up most of pretty much everything.
    Most seem not even to know what democratic socialism is, and the fact that capitalism is also very much a part of society in EU countries. For  Americans it seems to be a lot of “this versus that”. 
    Also conveniently forgetting Apple is under anti-trust investigations in the US but ... “socialists”. 
    muthuk_vanalingamCheeseFreeze
  • Reply 39 of 39
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,183member
    jume said:
    hexclock said:
    dewme said:
    1. Apple builds a platform (at great expense).
    2. Apple opens up its platform to allow 3rd party content.
    3. Third party joins the platform by agreeing to the terms & conditions defined by the platform owner, i.e., Apple.
    4. Third party content provider decides they no longer like being treated as a guest in the owner's home.
    5. Third party content provider runs crying to their daddy, the EU protectionism squad.
    6. Daddy comes over, sues the platform owner, and beats them up with the protectionism stick of justice.

    Maybe I'm living in a warped reality, but this is like inviting a guest into your home and then having them sue you because you didn't allow them to sleep in your bed, use your bathroom, soil your towels, play with your dog, drink your booze, or drive your car. The court then intervenes and forces you to grant your "first party" or "owner" privileges to the third party.

    There used to be a time when ownership had its privileges. Apparently, or at least within the scope of EU protectionist policies, ownership means nothing. The EU thinks they own it all and the creators, architects, builders, and investors in platforms that cost huge sums of time, money, and resources are there merely to serve the state and its hapless minions who cannot create anything by themselves.

    This is nothing more than a culture of pathetic losers.


    Socialists don’t believe in private ownership, nor individuality. 
    Sure yes we are socialists ... At list we are not freezing to death when -10 deg. C hits the continent, nor hit with 18.000 USD electricity bills, and at list everyone can afford top notch healthcare.

    Long live the USA's capitalism that will save us all. 
    You probably forgot about this - 30,000 deaths. (Also look up 2019): https://www.britannica.com/event/European-heat-wave-of-2003
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