Epic Games expert says iOS could be like macOS without security drawbacks

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 77
    darkvaderdarkvader Posts: 597member
    Using your analogy, people who buy Ford vehicles should be able to install new software to replace your Ford's software. Do you really think that's safe to replace a vehicle's control software? Do you think Ford should resist that, and can Ford invalidate its warranty for people who replace its software? Or are you going to say that smartphones don't have a concept called "safety"?

    People can and do replace Ford's software.  "Safe" doesn't play into it at all, they own the car, they can replace the software.  Ford should not try to resist that, and legally cannot invalidate the warranty for people who replace the software (Magnuson-Moss).  They don't have to warranty non-Ford software, nor does the warranty cover components that non-Ford software breaks, but Ford would be violating the law if they refused to honor the warranty on any other part of the car.  And yes, that law also applies to Apple.  Smartphone "safety" is limited to things like fire hazards, "I saw something I didn't want my kid to see on the intarwebs" is not a safety issue.
    elijahg
  • Reply 62 of 77
    And Epic could make Fortnight more like Minecraft.  Coke could be made to taste more like Diet Coke.  Quarter Pounder could be given away for free.  So what?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 63 of 77
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,737member
    sflocal said:
    He’s right. macOS is much more open in terms of how users can install apps, and yet the Mac isn’t crawling with malware, unlike windows. Also, if iOS is opened to allow third party app stores, nothing would require users to download apps from those other stores if they didn’t want to. I’ve had an iPhone since 2007, but I recently started toying with android, and I’ve never used any other App Store besides the google play store even though others exist. 

    I think Apple is exerting too much control. For example, why is it that Netflix or any other app can’t tell me where and how to sign up for a subscription (if those apps don’t use IAP)? 

    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates. 

    Others might disagree, but my view is Apple is in some ways restricting trade by disallowing the existence of other app stores. And the restriction of trade is why I believe it’s just a matter a time before the hammer drops, whether in the USA, or Europe or elsewhere. 
    Lots of ignorance in this thread.

    You need to look no further than Android to see what a mess an "open" system is.  Security is so bad - to nonexistent - that no one even bothers to raise a stink about it.  It's a given.  You're advocating a similar path with iOS, and users - not companies - will flatly say "NO".

    It's not so much about right or wrong, good or bad.   It's just a different approach. 

    Yes, open systems like Android and Windows are, in your words, "messes" and security is deficient.
    But, at the same time Apple's closed systems are, some would say, "too limited and too restricted.   Why can't I...."

    I think comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges.   They each have advantages and disadvantages.

    The danger comes when outside pressure forces them to be something that they are not -- for a closed system to open up or vice-versa.



    Those "some would say" are a very small minority of tech users - more like Android shills - and companies like Epic.  Why does society place such a large importance on trying to satisfy 100% of everyone as opposed to say 95%?

    I'm honestly of the camp where if you don't like how something is being run, leave and go find something else.  In the end, if enough people did that, the company would begin thinking that maybe their approach is not very good and decide on making changes.  This is not happening on iOS that continues to make great strides in the mobile space.  So to those vocal minorities, I say "Take a hike".
    watto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 64 of 77
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 241member
    genovelle said:
    He’s right. macOS is much more open in terms of how users can install apps, and yet the Mac isn’t crawling with malware, unlike windows. Also, if iOS is opened to allow third party app stores, nothing would require users to download apps from those other stores if they didn’t want to. I’ve had an iPhone since 2007, but I recently started toying with android, and I’ve never used any other App Store besides the google play store even though others exist. 

    I think Apple is exerting too much control. For example, why is it that Netflix or any other app can’t tell me where and how to sign up for a subscription (if those apps don’t use IAP)? 

    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates. 

    Others might disagree, but my view is Apple is in some ways restricting trade by disallowing the existence of other app stores. And the restriction of trade is why I believe it’s just a matter a time before the hammer drops, whether in the USA, or Europe or elsewhere. 
    Is he and anyone else willing to put their home and financial future on the line to prove it? Android is the example and it is a horrible idea. 
    Well, as he said, macOS certainly works.
    elijahg
  • Reply 65 of 77
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,523member
    IreneW said:
    genovelle said:
    He’s right. macOS is much more open in terms of how users can install apps, and yet the Mac isn’t crawling with malware, unlike windows. Also, if iOS is opened to allow third party app stores, nothing would require users to download apps from those other stores if they didn’t want to. I’ve had an iPhone since 2007, but I recently started toying with android, and I’ve never used any other App Store besides the google play store even though others exist. 

    I think Apple is exerting too much control. For example, why is it that Netflix or any other app can’t tell me where and how to sign up for a subscription (if those apps don’t use IAP)? 

    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates. 

    Others might disagree, but my view is Apple is in some ways restricting trade by disallowing the existence of other app stores. And the restriction of trade is why I believe it’s just a matter a time before the hammer drops, whether in the USA, or Europe or elsewhere. 
    Is he and anyone else willing to put their home and financial future on the line to prove it? Android is the example and it is a horrible idea. 
    Well, as he said, macOS certainly works.
    Yes, that's correct, macOS works to the point where it has earned a whopping 15% of the desktop market, compared with Windows that has 75%. Perhaps macOS would work even better if it copied the walled-garden approach of iOS.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 77
    davidwdavidw Posts: 1,331member
    darkvader said:
    Using your analogy, people who buy Ford vehicles should be able to install new software to replace your Ford's software. Do you really think that's safe to replace a vehicle's control software? Do you think Ford should resist that, and can Ford invalidate its warranty for people who replace its software? Or are you going to say that smartphones don't have a concept called "safety"?

    People can and do replace Ford's software.  "Safe" doesn't play into it at all, they own the car, they can replace the software.  Ford should not try to resist that, and legally cannot invalidate the warranty for people who replace the software (Magnuson-Moss).  They don't have to warranty non-Ford software, nor does the warranty cover components that non-Ford software breaks, but Ford would be violating the law if they refused to honor the warranty on any other part of the car.  And yes, that law also applies to Apple.  Smartphone "safety" is limited to things like fire hazards, "I saw something I didn't want my kid to see on the intarwebs" is not a safety issue.
    >"........ and legally cannot invalidate the warranty for people who replace the software (Magnuson-Moss)."<  

    Of course they can. What planet do you live on? If you changed the ECU 
    software on an auto so that the car shifts at a higher RPM and it burns out the trans, do you actually think auto manufacturer or dealer, will cover the repair cost under warranty? They can not legally void your warranty on your smog devices, instrument cluster, battery, master brake cylinder, ABS or anything else that was not affected by the change in software, but they sure as Hell can void that 100K mile warranty on your drivetrain. Including any extended warranty you may have bought for it. Change the ECU so your auto burns richer, don't expect any warranty coverage if the catalytic converter burns out, if the change is detected. That's why many auto enthusiast wait until their cars are out of warranty, before flashing the ECU to get better performance. 

    https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/44uufk/would_getting_an_ecu_tune_void_my_warranty/

    https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/3787314-can-dealer-see-if-the-car-has-been-tuned-even-if-returned-to-stock.html

    In CA at least, if you change the ECU software on an auto and it's detected when you bring the car in for a smog test, you will not be able to registered the auto and legally drive it on the public roads. Even if it might still pass the smog emission test otherwise.

    BTW- Magnuson-Moss has nothing to do with modification. It only covers replacement on parts with OEM parts and it doesn't matter who performs the replacement. Replacing the ECU with OEM is OK. But modifying the software in it will void any warranty, if it causes any damage to any parts of the auto. 
    edited May 16 roundaboutnowwatto_cobra
  • Reply 67 of 77
    XedXed Posts: 1,030member
    IreneW said:
    genovelle said:
    He’s right. macOS is much more open in terms of how users can install apps, and yet the Mac isn’t crawling with malware, unlike windows. Also, if iOS is opened to allow third party app stores, nothing would require users to download apps from those other stores if they didn’t want to. I’ve had an iPhone since 2007, but I recently started toying with android, and I’ve never used any other App Store besides the google play store even though others exist. 

    I think Apple is exerting too much control. For example, why is it that Netflix or any other app can’t tell me where and how to sign up for a subscription (if those apps don’t use IAP)? 

    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates. 

    Others might disagree, but my view is Apple is in some ways restricting trade by disallowing the existence of other app stores. And the restriction of trade is why I believe it’s just a matter a time before the hammer drops, whether in the USA, or Europe or elsewhere. 
    Is he and anyone else willing to put their home and financial future on the line to prove it? Android is the example and it is a horrible idea. 
    Well, as he said, macOS certainly works.
    Yes, that's correct, macOS works to the point where it has earned a whopping 15% of the desktop market, compared with Windows that has 75%. Perhaps macOS would work even better if it copied the walled-garden approach of iOS.
    It always surprises me when people on tech forums make statements like the OP did. The iPhone and iPad are the success they are because of how stripped down Mac OS X and rebuilt it for a mobile computing device with the average user in mind. Far too often I see people commenting about how much better it would be if iOS was like macOS or even the longstanding desire to have iPadOS replace with macOS and yet they never seem to comprehend how Apple didn't invent the tablet or smartphone, yet are now the gold standard for consumer device because of Apple's amazing efforts, not in spite of. If shoehorning a desktop OS and 1970s methodology was going to make a tablet great then the several decades of Windows tablets would be dominating right now.
    roundaboutnowBombdoewatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 68 of 77
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,523member
    Xed said:
    IreneW said:
    genovelle said:
    He’s right. macOS is much more open in terms of how users can install apps, and yet the Mac isn’t crawling with malware, unlike windows. Also, if iOS is opened to allow third party app stores, nothing would require users to download apps from those other stores if they didn’t want to. I’ve had an iPhone since 2007, but I recently started toying with android, and I’ve never used any other App Store besides the google play store even though others exist. 

    I think Apple is exerting too much control. For example, why is it that Netflix or any other app can’t tell me where and how to sign up for a subscription (if those apps don’t use IAP)? 

    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates. 

    Others might disagree, but my view is Apple is in some ways restricting trade by disallowing the existence of other app stores. And the restriction of trade is why I believe it’s just a matter a time before the hammer drops, whether in the USA, or Europe or elsewhere. 
    Is he and anyone else willing to put their home and financial future on the line to prove it? Android is the example and it is a horrible idea. 
    Well, as he said, macOS certainly works.
    Yes, that's correct, macOS works to the point where it has earned a whopping 15% of the desktop market, compared with Windows that has 75%. Perhaps macOS would work even better if it copied the walled-garden approach of iOS.
    It always surprises me when people on tech forums make statements like the OP did. The iPhone and iPad are the success they are because of how stripped down Mac OS X and rebuilt it for a mobile computing device with the average user in mind. Far too often I see people commenting about how much better it would be if iOS was like macOS or even the longstanding desire to have iPadOS replace with macOS and yet they never seem to comprehend how Apple didn't invent the tablet or smartphone, yet are now the gold standard for consumer device because of Apple's amazing efforts, not in spite of. If shoehorning a desktop OS and 1970s methodology was going to make a tablet great then the several decades of Windows tablets would be dominating right now.
    Thanks for correctly understanding my implied ideas. I usually try to avoid hidden meaning, but this time I chose to employ implications, and you got them.

    I'm not actually sure it would be a good idea for macOS to become more like iOS. I think the difference being that most macOS users are very techno-literate, while most iOS users are not.
  • Reply 69 of 77
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,299member
    sflocal said:
    sflocal said:
    He’s right. macOS is much more open in terms of how users can install apps, and yet the Mac isn’t crawling with malware, unlike windows. Also, if iOS is opened to allow third party app stores, nothing would require users to download apps from those other stores if they didn’t want to. I’ve had an iPhone since 2007, but I recently started toying with android, and I’ve never used any other App Store besides the google play store even though others exist. 

    I think Apple is exerting too much control. For example, why is it that Netflix or any other app can’t tell me where and how to sign up for a subscription (if those apps don’t use IAP)? 

    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates. 

    Others might disagree, but my view is Apple is in some ways restricting trade by disallowing the existence of other app stores. And the restriction of trade is why I believe it’s just a matter a time before the hammer drops, whether in the USA, or Europe or elsewhere. 
    Lots of ignorance in this thread.

    You need to look no further than Android to see what a mess an "open" system is.  Security is so bad - to nonexistent - that no one even bothers to raise a stink about it.  It's a given.  You're advocating a similar path with iOS, and users - not companies - will flatly say "NO".

    It's not so much about right or wrong, good or bad.   It's just a different approach. 

    Yes, open systems like Android and Windows are, in your words, "messes" and security is deficient.
    But, at the same time Apple's closed systems are, some would say, "too limited and too restricted.   Why can't I...."

    I think comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges.   They each have advantages and disadvantages.

    The danger comes when outside pressure forces them to be something that they are not -- for a closed system to open up or vice-versa.



    Those "some would say" are a very small minority of tech users - more like Android shills - and companies like Epic.  Why does society place such a large importance on trying to satisfy 100% of everyone as opposed to say 95%?

    I'm honestly of the camp where if you don't like how something is being run, leave and go find something else.  In the end, if enough people did that, the company would begin thinking that maybe their approach is not very good and decide on making changes.  This is not happening on iOS that continues to make great strides in the mobile space.  So to those vocal minorities, I say "Take a hike".

    It's not about ideology -- or shouldn't be.

    Rather each has good points and its bad points:   Open systems have advantages over closed and Closed system can have advantages over open.

    And yeh, each must choose -- and shouldn't complain if they choose wrong.
  • Reply 70 of 77
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,333member
    elijahg said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Xed said:
    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates.
    So you're asking why a store wouldn't want to allow a product to lead them to another store where products are potentially more profitable for the seller? Have you ever seen TV at BestBuy advertise about buying the same TV at Walmart to save a couple bucks?
    I think you’re looking at this wrong. You say Best Buy should not allow the tv to advertise about Walmart while the tv is in the store. Fair point. 

    But you’re not talking about what the purchaser of the TV does with it AFTER they purchased it. Would you want Best Buy to have the power to tell Samsung or Sony (device manufacturer) that they’re restricted from allowing users to look at Walmart ads after they took the tv home? That would be ludicrous. 

    But yet Apple has the power to tell Netflix (app manufacturer) what users can do with the App AFTER we purchase/download the app? Once the app is on our phones, that’s akin to taking the tv home in my example above. That’s where your analogy breaks down in my view. Netflix should have the right to tell its users about subscription details, etc. 
    I live in a house. 
    I own the house outright. 
    But there are rules that state what I’m allowed to do to my house.
    I cannot put up a fence around my front lawn (weird one). I cannot build a four storey extension in my back garden, even though I own the land. I cannot build a massive three hundred foot satellite dish in the roof. I cannot do anything that would make the house unsafe and then try and sell it. 

    Why? Because even though I own the house and the land, the rules are their to stop me from doing dumb stuff that affects everything me. 

    And you actually don’t own any piece of software. You only think you do. 

    You can actually do all those things you listed, but there likely will be consequences, and those consequences will be your responsibility, not whoever sold you the materials. Just like there would be for third party app stores. You can make your house unsafe and then sell it as long as you inform the buyer, if you didn't then there would be consequences. If you were to replace a floor in your house, whilst in the process of replacement it may be unsafe, and it would be your responsibility to ensure no harm comes to yourself or anyone else. So as you're advocating the banning of third party app stores for the negative consequences, are you advocating the banning of knife sales, hardware stores, auto parts, etc too? Because all those things are potentially dangerous. We should ban hardware stores for the general public, in case they do buy tools and materials that would potentially make their house unsafe. And here we're talking about apps, the worst that can really happen is fraud; it's not potentially deadly like someone doing their own DIY. 

    I could enable SSH, remove my password and open ports to the Internet, that would be my responsibility and my fault if I got hacked. No one goes running to Apple when someone gets Mac malware, so why is it apparently different with the phone? Apple wants control over the apps on the phone, obviously because they make a lot of money from the App Store. Anyone who thinks that's not the primary reason for the lock-in is just delusional. 
    Sounds like you don’t own a house. No, you cannot do those things which are against local ordinance or code, despite owning the property. Nor can you open a liquor store in your house. You simply cannot do whatever you want. 
    Yes, you can. I could go to the hardware store right now and buy materials to do anything I liked, anything that would break the local codes. That doesn't, as I quite clearly said, mean it is free from consequence. No one is going to stop me from buying bricks just in case I might break some law. No one is going to stop me mixing mortar incase I break some code. It is my responsibility to use those materials legally, not the responsibility of the hardware store. I could open a liquor store in my front room if I so wanted. Again, doesn't mean it would be free from consequence.

    There would be no point in courts if people were disallowed from doing anything that might result in a broken law, because it would not be possible to break the law. I assume you are one of the people who thinks "free speech" equates to "speech free of consequence"?

    And anyway back to the original point, it is *my* device, and it is not for Apple to decide what I do with it. What I do with that however, is not Apple's responsibility, it is mine. If I drill a hole in it and it breaks, that's my responsibility, not the responsibility of the shop that sold me the drill.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 71 of 77
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,333member
    sflocal said:
    He’s right. macOS is much more open in terms of how users can install apps, and yet the Mac isn’t crawling with malware, unlike windows. Also, if iOS is opened to allow third party app stores, nothing would require users to download apps from those other stores if they didn’t want to. I’ve had an iPhone since 2007, but I recently started toying with android, and I’ve never used any other App Store besides the google play store even though others exist. 

    I think Apple is exerting too much control. For example, why is it that Netflix or any other app can’t tell me where and how to sign up for a subscription (if those apps don’t use IAP)? 

    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates. 

    Others might disagree, but my view is Apple is in some ways restricting trade by disallowing the existence of other app stores. And the restriction of trade is why I believe it’s just a matter a time before the hammer drops, whether in the USA, or Europe or elsewhere. 
    Lots of ignorance in this thread.

    You need to look no further than Android to see what a mess an "open" system is.  Security is so bad - to nonexistent - that no one even bothers to raise a stink about it.  It's a given.  You're advocating a similar path with iOS, and users - not companies - will flatly say "NO".
    I know you won't reply because you're apparently never able to defend your points, but why not look any further than macOS instead, as that is an example of an "open" system too. Is it a mess? Is security so bad that it's "a given" you will get malware on your Mac? And if not, why do you think that is?
  • Reply 72 of 77
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,333member
    IreneW said:
    genovelle said:
    He’s right. macOS is much more open in terms of how users can install apps, and yet the Mac isn’t crawling with malware, unlike windows. Also, if iOS is opened to allow third party app stores, nothing would require users to download apps from those other stores if they didn’t want to. I’ve had an iPhone since 2007, but I recently started toying with android, and I’ve never used any other App Store besides the google play store even though others exist. 

    I think Apple is exerting too much control. For example, why is it that Netflix or any other app can’t tell me where and how to sign up for a subscription (if those apps don’t use IAP)? 

    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates. 

    Others might disagree, but my view is Apple is in some ways restricting trade by disallowing the existence of other app stores. And the restriction of trade is why I believe it’s just a matter a time before the hammer drops, whether in the USA, or Europe or elsewhere. 
    Is he and anyone else willing to put their home and financial future on the line to prove it? Android is the example and it is a horrible idea. 
    Well, as he said, macOS certainly works.
    Yes, that's correct, macOS works to the point where it has earned a whopping 15% of the desktop market, compared with Windows that has 75%. Perhaps macOS would work even better if it copied the walled-garden approach of iOS.
    So go the opposite direction to the clear market leader in both mobile and desktop to improve marketshare? Yeah not sure you've worked that one out too well.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 73 of 77
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,333member
    Xed said:
    IreneW said:
    genovelle said:
    He’s right. macOS is much more open in terms of how users can install apps, and yet the Mac isn’t crawling with malware, unlike windows. Also, if iOS is opened to allow third party app stores, nothing would require users to download apps from those other stores if they didn’t want to. I’ve had an iPhone since 2007, but I recently started toying with android, and I’ve never used any other App Store besides the google play store even though others exist. 

    I think Apple is exerting too much control. For example, why is it that Netflix or any other app can’t tell me where and how to sign up for a subscription (if those apps don’t use IAP)? 

    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates. 

    Others might disagree, but my view is Apple is in some ways restricting trade by disallowing the existence of other app stores. And the restriction of trade is why I believe it’s just a matter a time before the hammer drops, whether in the USA, or Europe or elsewhere. 
    Is he and anyone else willing to put their home and financial future on the line to prove it? Android is the example and it is a horrible idea. 
    Well, as he said, macOS certainly works.
    Yes, that's correct, macOS works to the point where it has earned a whopping 15% of the desktop market, compared with Windows that has 75%. Perhaps macOS would work even better if it copied the walled-garden approach of iOS.
    It always surprises me when people on tech forums make statements like the OP did. The iPhone and iPad are the success they are because of how stripped down Mac OS X and rebuilt it for a mobile computing device with the average user in mind. Far too often I see people commenting about how much better it would be if iOS was like macOS or even the longstanding desire to have iPadOS replace with macOS and yet they never seem to comprehend how Apple didn't invent the tablet or smartphone, yet are now the gold standard for consumer device because of Apple's amazing efforts, not in spite of. If shoehorning a desktop OS and 1970s methodology was going to make a tablet great then the several decades of Windows tablets would be dominating right now.
    Windows tablets are and always were crap because the UI was and is crap, the hardware was junk as was the input method of a pen. Microsoft still doesn't understand this, which is why they have a marketshare of basically nothing in the tablet market. Android does a better job, but again not great because they're trying to use a mobile UI on the tablet screen. iPads work so well because the UI is designed from the ground up for touch. Nothing to do with the walled garden. If it was all about the walled garden, then iOS's marketshare would be where Android's is now.
    edited May 16
  • Reply 74 of 77
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,523member
    elijahg said:
    And anyway back to the original point, it is *my* device, and it is not for Apple to decide what I do with it. What I do with that however, is not Apple's responsibility, it is mine. If I drill a hole in it and it breaks, that's my responsibility, not the responsibility of the shop that sold me the drill.
    Sure, if you want to try to install a different OS than iOS, go ahead, Apple won't mind. But if what you are implying is that Apple's iOS developers must kowtow to all your demands of functionality inside iOS, which is what you are implying behind your weasel words, then you are wrong.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 75 of 77
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 241member
    Xed said:
    IreneW said:
    genovelle said:
    He’s right. macOS is much more open in terms of how users can install apps, and yet the Mac isn’t crawling with malware, unlike windows. Also, if iOS is opened to allow third party app stores, nothing would require users to download apps from those other stores if they didn’t want to. I’ve had an iPhone since 2007, but I recently started toying with android, and I’ve never used any other App Store besides the google play store even though others exist. 

    I think Apple is exerting too much control. For example, why is it that Netflix or any other app can’t tell me where and how to sign up for a subscription (if those apps don’t use IAP)? 

    When the iPhone ecosystem was small, Apple’s level of control wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, but as the iOS ecosystem has ballooned to billions of users and billions of dollars of trade, I can see why governments and courts around the planet are interested in how the ecosystem operates. 

    Others might disagree, but my view is Apple is in some ways restricting trade by disallowing the existence of other app stores. And the restriction of trade is why I believe it’s just a matter a time before the hammer drops, whether in the USA, or Europe or elsewhere. 
    Is he and anyone else willing to put their home and financial future on the line to prove it? Android is the example and it is a horrible idea. 
    Well, as he said, macOS certainly works.
    Yes, that's correct, macOS works to the point where it has earned a whopping 15% of the desktop market, compared with Windows that has 75%. Perhaps macOS would work even better if it copied the walled-garden approach of iOS.
    It always surprises me when people on tech forums make statements like the OP did. The iPhone and iPad are the success they are because of how stripped down Mac OS X and rebuilt it for a mobile computing device with the average user in mind. Far too often I see people commenting about how much better it would be if iOS was like macOS or even the longstanding desire to have iPadOS replace with macOS and yet they never seem to comprehend how Apple didn't invent the tablet or smartphone, yet are now the gold standard for consumer device because of Apple's amazing efforts, not in spite of. If shoehorning a desktop OS and 1970s methodology was going to make a tablet great then the several decades of Windows tablets would be dominating right now.
    I have never asked for merging iOS and macOS. I _only_ agreed that allowing third-party app stores does not mean the iOS would be necessarily less secure.

    The possibility of a touch screen on a Mac or a cursor on an iPad is a completely different question (and, by the way, none of them has anything to do with why Apple failed in the corporate PC market, and by extension fell behind in the private market).
    elijahg
  • Reply 76 of 77
    BittySonBittySon Posts: 67member
    And Epic could make great games …. So many couldas.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 77 of 77
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,333member
    elijahg said:
    And anyway back to the original point, it is *my* device, and it is not for Apple to decide what I do with it. What I do with that however, is not Apple's responsibility, it is mine. If I drill a hole in it and it breaks, that's my responsibility, not the responsibility of the shop that sold me the drill.
    Sure, if you want to try to install a different OS than iOS, go ahead, Apple won't mind. But if what you are implying is that Apple's iOS developers must kowtow to all your demands of functionality inside iOS, which is what you are implying behind your weasel words, then you are wrong.
    Nope, Apple devs have no requirement to "kowtow" to anything, since the facility for third party app installation already exists and it's purely policy that is not allowing distribution. Nothing to do with iOS developers at all. If changes are required by the lawsuit however, they certainly will be required to "kowtow" to it.

    You may need to get a dictionary btw - my words were intentionally unambiguous.
    edited May 18
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