Fake Apple stocks are starting to trade on various blockchain platforms

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 28

    DAalseth said:
    maltz said:
    physguy said:
    Yet another pyramid scheme. Selling items with no intrinsic value and depending on the next purchaser to bails you out. 
    That actually isn't different from actual stock, the value is only what the next buyer will pay. The difference being that APPL has a divided but even that is a guarantee. 

    This VERY different than actual stock - actual stock does indeed have intrinsic value.  When you own stock, you literally own a small piece of that company.  Within the limits of incorporation, that means you own a piece of its assets, a piece of its debt, you might receive a piece of its revenue (dividends), and can even participate in some company decisions by voting your shares.
    Sigh, you cannot take your share of Apple stock and swing by Apple Park and trade it in for your "small piece" of the company. At the end of the day the value is limited to what another person will pay you for the share. That is it, a share is only worth what someone else thinks it's worth paying for.
    No you can’t because the stock IS part of the company. that’s what they mean when they say you own part of the company. You can take it to Apple Park and they will buy it from you for money, but no they won’t give you a piece of the sidewalk. You already own that. The stock certificate is proof that you do. And it is worth what someone, or Apple is willing to pay for it, but you also get, as mentioned above, dividends and voting rights into the running of the company. You get that because you own a share of, part of, the company.
    This is incorrect. If I take my stock ( and I do own Apple stock) down to Apple Park they will not give me money for it. Apple is under no obligation to buy stock from stocker holders when the stock holder wants to sell it. That is literally what I am saying when I say I cannot go to Apple Park and get my bit of the company. If I want to sell it I need to find someone that wants to buy it and we have to agree on the price. So I am holding it and waiting for the next buyer to bail me out as the comment I responded to put it. 
  • Reply 22 of 28
    maltz said:
    physguy said:
    Yet another pyramid scheme. Selling items with no intrinsic value and depending on the next purchaser to bails you out. 
    That actually isn't different from actual stock, the value is only what the next buyer will pay. The difference being that APPL has a divided but even that is a guarantee. 

    This VERY different than actual stock - actual stock does indeed have intrinsic value.  When you own stock, you literally own a small piece of that company.  Within the limits of incorporation, that means you own a piece of its assets, a piece of its debt, you might receive a piece of its revenue (dividends), and can even participate in some company decisions by voting your shares.
    Sigh, you cannot take your share of Apple stock and swing by Apple Park and trade it in for your "small piece" of the company. At the end of the day the value is limited to what another person will pay you for the share. That is it, a share is only worth what someone else thinks it's worth paying for.
    Lol…. 
    DAMN! That passive aggressive “sigh” wasn’t even aimed at me & I still got a bit triggered!!!

    How suuuuuuper disrespectful!
    I mean… I’d get you acting like you’re explaining something the thousandth time to a less than average intelligent child to some extremely small extent if the OP was popping off & you were incontrovertibly correct, I guess.
    But in this case- you’re grossly either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the fundamentals of how stock ownership works… and STILL acting all smugly superior.
    Not gonna lie- kinda makes you come off as an ass, and a clown. An ass clown, if you will!

    I barely know where to start picking apart your ignorant post… Lol, you mixed in just enough actual facts with some total bs & sprinkled a big dose of unbridled opinion, so (purposefully?) it’s a bit hard to dissect to attack, and honestly not worth all that much effort, since you already showed your hand that you just get huffy & dismissive when faced with polite correction.

    But I will address a few things…
    First, YES, if I owned 50% of AAPL & they went completely under, I absolutely could and would be able to take 50% of the cash from them selling off Apple Park, I could take 50% of the proceeds from sale of all their warehouses (or I could just accept 50% of their warehouses), etc.
    Sooooooo…. if AAPL went completely under & you owned a fake copy of AAPL via a mirrored financial instrument, lol who would you go to for your share? And share of what?
    2nd, although there certainly is a trade type which you describe (Google: “greater fools stock theory”) in which you purchase a stock at far above its intrinsic value, a foolish idea indeed, but counting on a ‘greater fool’ to purchase it for more…. however, this is DEFINITELY NOT the only type of stock types or trade types that exist- as you very incorrectly claim.
    Lastly (for now), you run into some circular logic in your final sentence.
    So you say that a stock is only worth what someone will pay for it.
    OK.
    But doesn’t it also follow that someone will only pay what it’s worth??
    Lol, you’re chasing your own tail there!
    Stocks are affected by MANY factors. Their worth is based on a blend of facts & opinions. The fact that they may own (like Apple) literally billions of dollars worth of buildings, vehicles, and other tangible resources, gives it a value of at least that amount. Then you add in things that are opinion based, such as “will they be able to capture a meaningful share of a new market?”, and the like. Together, all these factors give us a price.

    At any rate… I really liked the comment you were replying to! It has full truths, not half truths.

    fin.

  • Reply 23 of 28
    maltz said:
    maltz said:
    physguy said:
    Yet another pyramid scheme. Selling items with no intrinsic value and depending on the next purchaser to bails you out. 
    That actually isn't different from actual stock, the value is only what the next buyer will pay. The difference being that APPL has a divided but even that is a guarantee. 

    This VERY different than actual stock - actual stock does indeed have intrinsic value.  When you own stock, you literally own a small piece of that company.  Within the limits of incorporation, that means you own a piece of its assets, a piece of its debt, you might receive a piece of its revenue (dividends), and can even participate in some company decisions by voting your shares.
    Sigh, you cannot take your share of Apple stock and swing by Apple Park and trade it in for your "small piece" of the company. At the end of the day the value is limited to what another person will pay you for the share. That is it, a share is only worth what someone else thinks it's worth paying for.

    Actually, in some very specific circumstances, yes, you can do exactly that.  Stock buybacks are pretty close, for example.  I once took advantage of a stock buyback from Tyson Foods (I think it was?) where I was paid for my stock by Tyson itself as part of a temporary program where they offered to buy out people who had very small numbers of shares.  I didn't have to travel to Arkansas to trade my couple of shares for my "small piece" of the company, but otherwise, it's pretty much exactly the transaction you describe.

    Edit - to expand on that a little, though, you are partly right.  The entire company is worth, collectively, what people, collectively, are willing to pay for it.  So in that sense, yes, it's only worth what people are willing to pay.  But that's true of anything.  It doesn't mean that there is no actual asset attached.
    The bolded part is 100% in alignment with what I initially said; "That actually isn't different from actual stock, the value is only what the next buyer will pay."

    So a fake stock and an Apple issued stock have the same value, it's what the next person will pay based on what they perceive the value to be. You can certainly make an argument that there are reasons to perceive more value in an Apple issue stock but a the end fo the day the value is in what a buyer will pay. 
  • Reply 24 of 28
    maltz said:
    physguy said:
    Yet another pyramid scheme. Selling items with no intrinsic value and depending on the next purchaser to bails you out. 
    That actually isn't different from actual stock, the value is only what the next buyer will pay. The difference being that APPL has a divided but even that is a guarantee. 

    This VERY different than actual stock - actual stock does indeed have intrinsic value.  When you own stock, you literally own a small piece of that company.  Within the limits of incorporation, that means you own a piece of its assets, a piece of its debt, you might receive a piece of its revenue (dividends), and can even participate in some company decisions by voting your shares.
    Sigh, you cannot take your share of Apple stock and swing by Apple Park and trade it in for your "small piece" of the company. At the end of the day the value is limited to what another person will pay you for the share. That is it, a share is only worth what someone else thinks it's worth paying for.
    Lol…. 
    DAMN! That passive aggressive “sigh” wasn’t even aimed at me & I still got a bit triggered!!!

    How suuuuuuper disrespectful!
    I mean… I’d get you acting like you’re explaining something the thousandth time to a less than average intelligent child to some extremely small extent if the OP was popping off & you were incontrovertibly correct, I guess.
    But in this case- you’re grossly either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the fundamentals of how stock ownership works… and STILL acting all smugly superior.
    Not gonna lie- kinda makes you come off as an ass, and a clown. An ass clown, if you will!

    I barely know where to start picking apart your ignorant post… Lol, you mixed in just enough actual facts with some total bs & sprinkled a big dose of unbridled opinion, so (purposefully?) it’s a bit hard to dissect to attack, and honestly not worth all that much effort, since you already showed your hand that you just get huffy & dismissive when faced with polite correction.

    But I will address a few things…
    First, YES, if I owned 50% of AAPL & they went completely under, I absolutely could and would be able to take 50% of the cash from them selling off Apple Park, I could take 50% of the proceeds from sale of all their warehouses (or I could just accept 50% of their warehouses), etc.
    Sooooooo…. if AAPL went completely under & you owned a fake copy of AAPL via a mirrored financial instrument, lol who would you go to for your share? And share of what?
    2nd, although there certainly is a trade type which you describe (Google: “greater fools stock theory”) in which you purchase a stock at far above its intrinsic value, a foolish idea indeed, but counting on a ‘greater fool’ to purchase it for more…. however, this is DEFINITELY NOT the only type of stock types or trade types that exist- as you very incorrectly claim.
    Lastly (for now), you run into some circular logic in your final sentence.
    So you say that a stock is only worth what someone will pay for it.
    OK.
    But doesn’t it also follow that someone will only pay what it’s worth??
    Lol, you’re chasing your own tail there!
    Stocks are affected by MANY factors. Their worth is based on a blend of facts & opinions. The fact that they may own (like Apple) literally billions of dollars worth of buildings, vehicles, and other tangible resources, gives it a value of at least that amount. Then you add in things that are opinion based, such as “will they be able to capture a meaningful share of a new market?”, and the like. Together, all these factors give us a price.

    At any rate… I really liked the comment you were replying to! It has full truths, not half truths.

    fin.


    You are correct, I shouldn't have put the "sigh" in there. It wasn't polite. 

    Maltz, I apologize for being a jerk and putting in a sarcastic "sigh" you were totally civil and didn't deserve that. 

    As for the above, it's a rambling mess that seems to largely depend on personal attacks and fundamental lack of understanding of bankruptcy liquidation.  Best of luck to you.
    edited July 2021
  • Reply 25 of 28
    JapheyJaphey Posts: 1,767member
    maltz said:
    physguy said:
    Yet another pyramid scheme. Selling items with no intrinsic value and depending on the next purchaser to bails you out. 
    That actually isn't different from actual stock, the value is only what the next buyer will pay. The difference being that APPL has a divided but even that is a guarantee. 

    This VERY different than actual stock - actual stock does indeed have intrinsic value.  When you own stock, you literally own a small piece of that company.  Within the limits of incorporation, that means you own a piece of its assets, a piece of its debt, you might receive a piece of its revenue (dividends), and can even participate in some company decisions by voting your shares.
    Sigh, you cannot take your share of Apple stock and swing by Apple Park and trade it in for your "small piece" of the company. At the end of the day the value is limited to what another person will pay you for the share. That is it, a share is only worth what someone else thinks it's worth paying for.
    Lol…. 
    DAMN! That passive aggressive “sigh” wasn’t even aimed at me & I still got a bit triggered!!!

    How suuuuuuper disrespectful!
    I mean… I’d get you acting like you’re explaining something the thousandth time to a less than average intelligent child to some extremely small extent if the OP was popping off & you were incontrovertibly correct, I guess.
    But in this case- you’re grossly either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the fundamentals of how stock ownership works… and STILL acting all smugly superior.
    Not gonna lie- kinda makes you come off as an ass, and a clown. An ass clown, if you will!

    I barely know where to start picking apart your ignorant post… Lol, you mixed in just enough actual facts with some total bs & sprinkled a big dose of unbridled opinion, so (purposefully?) it’s a bit hard to dissect to attack, and honestly not worth all that much effort, since you already showed your hand that you just get huffy & dismissive when faced with polite correction.

    But I will address a few things…
    First, YES, if I owned 50% of AAPL & they went completely under, I absolutely could and would be able to take 50% of the cash from them selling off Apple Park, I could take 50% of the proceeds from sale of all their warehouses (or I could just accept 50% of their warehouses), etc.
    Sooooooo…. if AAPL went completely under & you owned a fake copy of AAPL via a mirrored financial instrument, lol who would you go to for your share? And share of what?
    2nd, although there certainly is a trade type which you describe (Google: “greater fools stock theory”) in which you purchase a stock at far above its intrinsic value, a foolish idea indeed, but counting on a ‘greater fool’ to purchase it for more…. however, this is DEFINITELY NOT the only type of stock types or trade types that exist- as you very incorrectly claim.
    Lastly (for now), you run into some circular logic in your final sentence.
    So you say that a stock is only worth what someone will pay for it.
    OK.
    But doesn’t it also follow that someone will only pay what it’s worth??
    Lol, you’re chasing your own tail there!
    Stocks are affected by MANY factors. Their worth is based on a blend of facts & opinions. The fact that they may own (like Apple) literally billions of dollars worth of buildings, vehicles, and other tangible resources, gives it a value of at least that amount. Then you add in things that are opinion based, such as “will they be able to capture a meaningful share of a new market?”, and the like. Together, all these factors give us a price.

    At any rate… I really liked the comment you were replying to! It has full truths, not half truths.

    fin.


    As for the above, it's a rambling mess that seems to largely depend on personal attacks and fundamental lack of understanding of bankruptcy liquidation.  Best of luck to you.
    Lol…the best part was where they said your opinion was not worth the effort to dissect, but then composed a thousand word piece doing exactly that. 

    I’m just here for the entertainment and some good natured trolling. 

    fin
    edited July 2021 [Deleted User]muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 26 of 28
    Japhey said:
    maltz said:
    physguy said:
    Yet another pyramid scheme. Selling items with no intrinsic value and depending on the next purchaser to bails you out. 
    That actually isn't different from actual stock, the value is only what the next buyer will pay. The difference being that APPL has a divided but even that is a guarantee. 

    This VERY different than actual stock - actual stock does indeed have intrinsic value.  When you own stock, you literally own a small piece of that company.  Within the limits of incorporation, that means you own a piece of its assets, a piece of its debt, you might receive a piece of its revenue (dividends), and can even participate in some company decisions by voting your shares.
    Sigh, you cannot take your share of Apple stock and swing by Apple Park and trade it in for your "small piece" of the company. At the end of the day the value is limited to what another person will pay you for the share. That is it, a share is only worth what someone else thinks it's worth paying for.
    Lol…. 
    DAMN! That passive aggressive “sigh” wasn’t even aimed at me & I still got a bit triggered!!!

    How suuuuuuper disrespectful!
    I mean… I’d get you acting like you’re explaining something the thousandth time to a less than average intelligent child to some extremely small extent if the OP was popping off & you were incontrovertibly correct, I guess.
    But in this case- you’re grossly either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the fundamentals of how stock ownership works… and STILL acting all smugly superior.
    Not gonna lie- kinda makes you come off as an ass, and a clown. An ass clown, if you will!

    I barely know where to start picking apart your ignorant post… Lol, you mixed in just enough actual facts with some total bs & sprinkled a big dose of unbridled opinion, so (purposefully?) it’s a bit hard to dissect to attack, and honestly not worth all that much effort, since you already showed your hand that you just get huffy & dismissive when faced with polite correction.

    But I will address a few things…
    First, YES, if I owned 50% of AAPL & they went completely under, I absolutely could and would be able to take 50% of the cash from them selling off Apple Park, I could take 50% of the proceeds from sale of all their warehouses (or I could just accept 50% of their warehouses), etc.
    Sooooooo…. if AAPL went completely under & you owned a fake copy of AAPL via a mirrored financial instrument, lol who would you go to for your share? And share of what?
    2nd, although there certainly is a trade type which you describe (Google: “greater fools stock theory”) in which you purchase a stock at far above its intrinsic value, a foolish idea indeed, but counting on a ‘greater fool’ to purchase it for more…. however, this is DEFINITELY NOT the only type of stock types or trade types that exist- as you very incorrectly claim.
    Lastly (for now), you run into some circular logic in your final sentence.
    So you say that a stock is only worth what someone will pay for it.
    OK.
    But doesn’t it also follow that someone will only pay what it’s worth??
    Lol, you’re chasing your own tail there!
    Stocks are affected by MANY factors. Their worth is based on a blend of facts & opinions. The fact that they may own (like Apple) literally billions of dollars worth of buildings, vehicles, and other tangible resources, gives it a value of at least that amount. Then you add in things that are opinion based, such as “will they be able to capture a meaningful share of a new market?”, and the like. Together, all these factors give us a price.

    At any rate… I really liked the comment you were replying to! It has full truths, not half truths.

    fin.


    As for the above, it's a rambling mess that seems to largely depend on personal attacks and fundamental lack of understanding of bankruptcy liquidation.  Best of luck to you.
    Lol…the best part was where they said your opinion was not worth the effort to dissect, but then composed a thousand word piece doing exactly that. 

    I’m just here for the entertainment and some good natured trolling. 

    fin
    Japhey said:
    maltz said:
    physguy said:
    Yet another pyramid scheme. Selling items with no intrinsic value and depending on the next purchaser to bails you out. 
    That actually isn't different from actual stock, the value is only what the next buyer will pay. The difference being that APPL has a divided but even that is a guarantee. 

    This VERY different than actual stock - actual stock does indeed have intrinsic value.  When you own stock, you literally own a small piece of that company.  Within the limits of incorporation, that means you own a piece of its assets, a piece of its debt, you might receive a piece of its revenue (dividends), and can even participate in some company decisions by voting your shares.
    Sigh, you cannot take your share of Apple stock and swing by Apple Park and trade it in for your "small piece" of the company. At the end of the day the value is limited to what another person will pay you for the share. That is it, a share is only worth what someone else thinks it's worth paying for.
    Lol…. 
    DAMN! That passive aggressive “sigh” wasn’t even aimed at me & I still got a bit triggered!!!

    How suuuuuuper disrespectful!
    I mean… I’d get you acting like you’re explaining something the thousandth time to a less than average intelligent child to some extremely small extent if the OP was popping off & you were incontrovertibly correct, I guess.
    But in this case- you’re grossly either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the fundamentals of how stock ownership works… and STILL acting all smugly superior.
    Not gonna lie- kinda makes you come off as an ass, and a clown. An ass clown, if you will!

    I barely know where to start picking apart your ignorant post… Lol, you mixed in just enough actual facts with some total bs & sprinkled a big dose of unbridled opinion, so (purposefully?) it’s a bit hard to dissect to attack, and honestly not worth all that much effort, since you already showed your hand that you just get huffy & dismissive when faced with polite correction.

    But I will address a few things…
    First, YES, if I owned 50% of AAPL & they went completely under, I absolutely could and would be able to take 50% of the cash from them selling off Apple Park, I could take 50% of the proceeds from sale of all their warehouses (or I could just accept 50% of their warehouses), etc.
    Sooooooo…. if AAPL went completely under & you owned a fake copy of AAPL via a mirrored financial instrument, lol who would you go to for your share? And share of what?
    2nd, although there certainly is a trade type which you describe (Google: “greater fools stock theory”) in which you purchase a stock at far above its intrinsic value, a foolish idea indeed, but counting on a ‘greater fool’ to purchase it for more…. however, this is DEFINITELY NOT the only type of stock types or trade types that exist- as you very incorrectly claim.
    Lastly (for now), you run into some circular logic in your final sentence.
    So you say that a stock is only worth what someone will pay for it.
    OK.
    But doesn’t it also follow that someone will only pay what it’s worth??
    Lol, you’re chasing your own tail there!
    Stocks are affected by MANY factors. Their worth is based on a blend of facts & opinions. The fact that they may own (like Apple) literally billions of dollars worth of buildings, vehicles, and other tangible resources, gives it a value of at least that amount. Then you add in things that are opinion based, such as “will they be able to capture a meaningful share of a new market?”, and the like. Together, all these factors give us a price.

    At any rate… I really liked the comment you were replying to! It has full truths, not half truths.

    fin.


    As for the above, it's a rambling mess that seems to largely depend on personal attacks and fundamental lack of understanding of bankruptcy liquidation.  Best of luck to you.
    Lol…the best part was where they said your opinion was not worth the effort to dissect, but then composed a thousand word piece doing exactly that. 

    I’m just here for the entertainment and some good natured trolling. 

    fin
    Good natured trolling recognized & accepted! =)

    As for the ignorant loudmouth know it all-Ummm…. I return his passive aggressive “best of luck”, I guess? Lol.

    Honestly, I kinda urge/dare him to put his money where his mouth is & shift his investments all into fake stocks! I’ll wait…

    *crickets chirping*
  • Reply 27 of 28
    tatendaztatendaz Posts: 1member
    This article shows a clear lack of understanding of how blockchain work. Apple insider should higher more people to write about blockchain tech that actually understand how they work. Tokenized sticks are not fake stocks but function more like a derivative which is completely legal in the financial markets. So far I have not heard of any that have completely lost their peg to the underlying asset even though they have a very small liquidity meaning they are functioning as intended and even better since they are doing this in low liquidity. So blockchain tech proves itself as solid use here as well. Every heard the term blockchain can fix that? This is exactly it. You can follow my Twitter @realtatendazhou if you agree and wanna hear more about crypto and blockchains
  • Reply 28 of 28
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,728member
    auxio said:
    maltz said:
    physguy said:
    Yet another pyramid scheme. Selling items with no intrinsic value and depending on the next purchaser to bails you out. 
    That actually isn't different from actual stock, the value is only what the next buyer will pay. The difference being that APPL has a divided but even that is a guarantee. 

    This VERY different than actual stock - actual stock does indeed have intrinsic value.  When you own stock, you literally own a small piece of that company.  Within the limits of incorporation, that means you own a piece of its assets, a piece of its debt, you might receive a piece of its revenue (dividends), and can even participate in some company decisions by voting your shares.
    Sigh, you cannot take your share of Apple stock and swing by Apple Park and trade it in for your "small piece" of the company. At the end of the day the value is limited to what another person will pay you for the share. That is it, a share is only worth what someone else thinks it's worth paying for.
    I mean, we can break things down to the philosophical level here if you want.  After all, what's the definition of "value"?  One could say that, unless something can help sustain your existence, it doesn't really have any value.  Everything else in life is simply something to be traded for something else, and the "value" is determined at the point of that trade.

    But regardless, there are things which have a connection to real world objects, and things which don't.  In the case of stock, it has a connection to everything which makes up a company.  In the case of money, it has a connection to the region of the world from which it originated.  In the case of purely digital assets like cryptocurrency, there is no such connection.

    You are so close to getting it. Money is an abstract and doesn't exist in the real world. We print paper to represent that abstract but it's still an abstract. Currencies fail when people stop believing they have value, that is it.. Money's value build down to collective belief. Same goes with stock, we collectively believe it has a monetary value and trade based on what we believe that monetary value is.
    No, I do actually get it.  I've studied a fair bit about economic theory.  The value of money has nothing to do with the paper which is the physical representation of it.  What it does have to do with is the perceived value of the country or region of the world it's associated with.  In a simplified analysis, the value of the US dollar is related to how confident investors are in the economy of the US.  Obviously the valuation is more complicated than that, but regardless, there is a real world entity (the US economy) to which the value is tied.

    Is there an element of belief in that?  Absolutely.  But at the end of the day, that belief has something tangible/real to support it.  A real world measurement, if you want to think about it in scientific terms.  Cryptocurrency does not.  Its value is purely based on belief.

    Your analysis of money is akin to theoretical physics.  Sure, if you analyze the physical world down to the atomic level, everything breaks down and you can't prove that the object you see in front of you isn't just being created by your mind's perception of it.  But regardless of that analysis, the object isn't going to disappear anytime soon.
    muthuk_vanalingamtycho_macuser
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