I really hope this thing has the elegance of the Pro Mouse, or something near it. If it looks or acts anything like the vast sea of anti-ergonomic Windows mice I'm going to be sticking with my Pro Mouse for as long as I possibly can.
It would be nice to have the option to choose to buy a two-button, scroll-wheel mouse with your mac. However, I find myself working mostly with modifier keys and keyboard shortcuts, on a *Windows PC* at work, that is (eeek!); it's just faster for about everything, especially browsing the web (mozilla) and using Word! Every now and then I *have* to resort to right-click context menus, but it's mostly the last measure and I keep converting "newcomers" to the modifier options. Maybe modifier vs. right click people are like visual vs. audio-types of people?
I definitely *like* the scroll wheel, though. I just wish the "grab hand" to be implemented in more than just in Acrobat Reader, as a second option.
All in all I don't really see what the fuss is about Apple not offering a double button mouse - if you need one, get one!
Will the laptops then come with two clickable buttons on their trackpads? I see a firestorm of disenchanted forum-speak brewing. hrrmmm
Personally I think the ought to at least include a scroll wheel. It'd be nice to have one of those little eraser nubin thingies on the laptops, I always kinda liked them.
After looking over rumors and info from various sources, including AtAT's <a href="http://www.appleturns.com/episode/?date=4/8/2002"; target="_blank">2-button mouse prognostication</a> and YourDailyMac's rumors on <a href="http://www.yourdailymac.com/bluetoothbatteries.html"; target="_blank">Bluetooth keyboards and mice</a>, I think that new mice are in the works. Here's how I think it will break down:
Pro users (G4 desktop): 2-button mouse standard
Consumers (iMac): 1-button mouse (standard) or 2-button mouse (optional)
If a scroll wheel/button is implemented on the 2-button model, it may actually be a separate button encompassing the whole bottom/end of the mouse (like the button on today's mouse, but on the other (closer) end) that users would hold and drag [the mouse] to scroll, but that would probably prove too complicated and clunky.
One thing is almost certain: per the YourDailyMac article, if Apple suceeds in implementing the wireless, battery-powered Bluetooth mouse, we'll see it at MWNY or sometime before the end of this year. All the software elements are there; the only thing missing is the hardware.
A wireless mouse would be damn cool, but it'd need a battery and have to dock with the keyboard if they wanted to keep it optical. Seems like the 'light' would use a lot of power.
If they went back to a rolling ball type of design they could possibly generate enough power using a self winding gyroscopic mechanism like those used in some watches. Stipulation being that it is VERY low power and not too far from the bluetooth transmitter (maybe in the keyboard?)
I dunno.
As far as two buttons and scroll wheels go, I think it either has to be a change to every computer they sell, or nothing at all.
If they went back to a rolling ball type of design they could possibly generate enough power using a self winding gyroscopic mechanism like those used in some watches. Stipulation being that it is VERY low power and not too far from the bluetooth transmitter (maybe in the keyboard?)
Honest question: what do you do with 5 mouse buttons. I can see where it might come in handy for gaming, but other than that?
I don't know, I'm happy with the Pro Mouse. frankly, I use the mouse as little as possible. The more I can do with just the keyboard, the better: it's faster.
<strong>If Apple tried to satisfy all of you goobers, they'd have 51 product lines, two dozen models of each, all in assorted shades of every imaginable Pantone color. Plus several dozen different types/shapes/button arrangements of mice per each shade.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, Apple tried that back in the dark ages...it was called "Performa"
Something like 72 different models, and for many of them the only difference was which mass-market vendor was selling it and what software it came with!
I agree to keep it simple (1-button), if you want more do what I did and buy a 3rd-party mouse...my Thinking Mouse is awesome...too bad Kensington doesnt make a USB version with scroll wheel...
Today I ditched my wireless optical mouse and the wireless keyboard b/c I was tired of changing the batteries in the mouse every two weeks. Add up the cost of 2 AA batteries every two weeks over a period of years - not to mention the pain in the a$$ when the batteries die and you realize you don't have any more and have to run out to the store just to finish your work
I really thought that wireless would be the way to go, but now I'd never use it again unless they figure out a way to recharge the batteries with a docking station or something like my Palm... even that is a bit clunky by Apple's standards. All in all, I tried wireless and the whole battery issue sucks. Please don't do it Apple - or better yet, find a way around the batteries all together.
Sorry for the rant... had to run to BestBuy tonight when the batteries went dead again! No more wireless mice for me!
I never could figure you guys out crying about the batteries... I have a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse on my PC, and haven't had to change the batteries yet. Trying to remember when I bought this thing.... I know for a fact it was well before Christmas (could have even been November). And this computer gets used 5-6 days a week.
I think the understood approach to an Apple 2 button mouse would be a version of the pro mouse with an x click and a y click. The y click is what's on every mouse ever made. The x click, in the case of the pro mouse, would be like a barrell roll motion.
I hate scroll wheels. They get in the way more often than they are useful.
<strong>I never could figure you guys out crying about the batteries... I have a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse on my PC, and haven't had to change the batteries yet. Trying to remember when I bought this thing.... I know for a fact it was well before Christmas (could have even been November). And this computer gets used 5-6 days a week.
I'll trade you so you can see what I'm crying about. I have (if you have the Logitech Optical Freedom set) the exact same setup as you, and I change the mouse batteries every two weeks. Wanna swap? Then you can change the batteries and I can have your super mouse.
<strong>I'm sure Apple will have an innovative way of addressing the recharing issue. :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>
considering that Apple already wants $60 *each* for it's current keyboard and mouse, I'm sure not looking forward to paying $60 + $50 bluetooth + $50 innovative battery charging solution.
<strong>Honest question: what do you do with 5 mouse buttons. I can see where it might come in handy for gaming, but other than that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Left Click, Right Click, Middle Click (many UNIX apps and some 3D apps require this)
I'll trade you so you can see what I'm crying about. I have (if you have the Logitech Optical Freedom set) the exact same setup as you, and I change the mouse batteries every two weeks. Wanna swap? Then you can change the batteries and I can have your super mouse.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My mistake buddy - just reread your post and see that you have an optical mouse. Just the standard old ball mouse for me here.
I have a Logitech wireless keyboard... very ergonomic, works great. I love it, and I don't ever want to go back to a keyboard I can't put on my lap or move around my desk or hand to someone else in the room. The only thing I don't like is that with this wireless keyboard, unless I use a crappy USB hub, I've only got the two ports on my iMac to use. Which can be annoying when I want to download pictures from my camera, and I have to unplug the keyboard. It would ROCK if Logitech could put a USB port or two on the little receiver for the keyboard, though. Apple could just add more ports, and put the wireless receiver inside the machine not taking up a USB port.
Also, I've only replaced the batteries once in like.. damn.. must be 4 or 5 months. And I've put this thing through a beating.
I have read in this post, some of the most ridiculous arguments that I have ever seen in my life. And I have a better understanding of why Apple will never move beyond 5%.
"2 buttons is 2 confusing."
If you're smart enough to figure out when to [option + click], then you pass the right mouse button test.
"Programs will start requiring a 2nd button."
Rubbish! As a long time Windows user, I have yet to encounter any program that requires 2 buttons. There are programs that make good use of it. But require? I don't think so.
"I like/need the one button mouse so they should keep it as the standard."
Who cares what you like or need? You are a small percentage of an even smaller percentage of computer users. What you like is irrelevant. What the greater market likes is what's important. If you have a special need, (I am disabled too), then you buy the special hardware/software. Don't make everyone else have to buy something extra or go third party because you can't use up to date features.
"I just can't use 2 buttons."
Then don't. Map the other button so that it does nothing. Woolla! You still have a one button mouse. The rest of the world will have a two button mouse without having to buy separate hardware.
"Apple has to differentiate itself from the rest of the market."
By sticking with less functional hardware and alienating the vast majority of computer users? Being different just for its own sake is called being contrary.
(This last one is my favorite.)
"Third party vendors would be upset."
Give me a break!!! With that philosophy, Apple should definitely stop branding monitors, keyboards, or anything else they brand. To carry this argument to its logical conclusion, (not that it is at all logical), Apple purposely includes second class input devices to keep MS and Logitech happy.
My own theory about the one button mouse is simple pride and arrogance on Apples part. They will never admit defeat or that they were wrong about an interface idea. I'm glad they tried it. that shows inventiveness. The fact that they won't move on, however, shows blind stubbornness.
For many reasons, this mouse issue is very symptomatic of why Apple can't gain market share. They don't understand the first thing about PC users and they wonder why the rest of the world looks at Apple, shrugs their shoulders and buys a Dell.
This quandary can easily be solved, as has already been mentioned. OPTIONS. Oh, wait, Apple hates options. But, let's just say Apple smartens up. We may get a real "Pro" Mouse this WWDC or MWNY! I just bought a Logitech Cordless Optical, and it is almost perfect. Great range, etc, and I love the right click and scroll wheel. Hell, most Windoze people are used to this, and even expect this. one person I know would buy a Mac, except for ONE thing! No right click! (Yes, he is stupid. He didn't believe me until I showed him my Logitech on my iBook. PC people...)
The Logitech doesn't quite fit me right, however. But even worse, I hate having to lug a reciever around. heh. Cordless? Not quite... Apple or not, I am replacing it with a Bluetooth mouse and that tiny adapter (or maybe it will be built into the next PB, and I'll buy that! In my dreams)
The current "Pro" mouse is excellent, as an iMac mouse. I don't know why Apple calls it a Pro mouse. iMouse? Er.. I'll leave that to them. The fact is, most people HAVE used computers. Winblows computers. So, Apple should get with the program, on mice, and everything else. This situation is like their current predicament with RAM, or PCI, or ATA, or USB, or 1394a, or 802.11b, or...... Well, I guess we know this MWNY won't be boring. Apple has their work cut out for them.
Comments
I really hope this thing has the elegance of the Pro Mouse, or something near it. If it looks or acts anything like the vast sea of anti-ergonomic Windows mice I'm going to be sticking with my Pro Mouse for as long as I possibly can.
I definitely *like* the scroll wheel, though. I just wish the "grab hand" to be implemented in more than just in Acrobat Reader, as a second option.
All in all I don't really see what the fuss is about Apple not offering a double button mouse - if you need one, get one!
Personally I think the ought to at least include a scroll wheel. It'd be nice to have one of those little eraser nubin thingies on the laptops, I always kinda liked them.
Pro users (G4 desktop): 2-button mouse standard
Consumers (iMac): 1-button mouse (standard) or 2-button mouse (optional)
If a scroll wheel/button is implemented on the 2-button model, it may actually be a separate button encompassing the whole bottom/end of the mouse (like the button on today's mouse, but on the other (closer) end) that users would hold and drag [the mouse] to scroll, but that would probably prove too complicated and clunky.
One thing is almost certain: per the YourDailyMac article, if Apple suceeds in implementing the wireless, battery-powered Bluetooth mouse, we'll see it at MWNY or sometime before the end of this year. All the software elements are there; the only thing missing is the hardware.
My 2¢.
[ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: Carbon3 ]</p>
If they went back to a rolling ball type of design they could possibly generate enough power using a self winding gyroscopic mechanism like those used in some watches. Stipulation being that it is VERY low power and not too far from the bluetooth transmitter (maybe in the keyboard?)
I dunno.
As far as two buttons and scroll wheels go, I think it either has to be a change to every computer they sell, or nothing at all.
<strong>
If they went back to a rolling ball type of design they could possibly generate enough power using a self winding gyroscopic mechanism like those used in some watches. Stipulation being that it is VERY low power and not too far from the bluetooth transmitter (maybe in the keyboard?)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
They would never go back to a ball mouse.
I don't know, I'm happy with the Pro Mouse. frankly, I use the mouse as little as possible. The more I can do with just the keyboard, the better: it's faster.
<strong>If Apple tried to satisfy all of you goobers, they'd have 51 product lines, two dozen models of each, all in assorted shades of every imaginable Pantone color. Plus several dozen different types/shapes/button arrangements of mice per each shade.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, Apple tried that back in the dark ages...it was called "Performa"
Something like 72 different models, and for many of them the only difference was which mass-market vendor was selling it and what software it came with!
I agree to keep it simple (1-button), if you want more do what I did and buy a 3rd-party mouse...my Thinking Mouse is awesome...too bad Kensington doesnt make a USB version with scroll wheel...
I really thought that wireless would be the way to go, but now I'd never use it again unless they figure out a way to recharge the batteries with a docking station or something like my Palm... even that is a bit clunky by Apple's standards. All in all, I tried wireless and the whole battery issue sucks. Please don't do it Apple - or better yet, find a way around the batteries all together.
Sorry for the rant... had to run to BestBuy tonight when the batteries went dead again! No more wireless mice for me!
[ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
I hate scroll wheels. They get in the way more often than they are useful.
<strong>I never could figure you guys out crying about the batteries... I have a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse on my PC, and haven't had to change the batteries yet. Trying to remember when I bought this thing.... I know for a fact it was well before Christmas (could have even been November). And this computer gets used 5-6 days a week.
[ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll trade you so you can see what I'm crying about. I have (if you have the Logitech Optical Freedom set) the exact same setup as you, and I change the mouse batteries every two weeks. Wanna swap? Then you can change the batteries and I can have your super mouse.
<strong>I'm sure Apple will have an innovative way of addressing the recharing issue. :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>
considering that Apple already wants $60 *each* for it's current keyboard and mouse, I'm sure not looking forward to paying $60 + $50 bluetooth + $50 innovative battery charging solution.
<strong>Honest question: what do you do with 5 mouse buttons. I can see where it might come in handy for gaming, but other than that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Left Click, Right Click, Middle Click (many UNIX apps and some 3D apps require this)
Option Click
Command Click
Now all five buttons are occupied
<strong>
I'll trade you so you can see what I'm crying about. I have (if you have the Logitech Optical Freedom set) the exact same setup as you, and I change the mouse batteries every two weeks. Wanna swap? Then you can change the batteries and I can have your super mouse.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My mistake buddy - just reread your post and see that you have an optical mouse. Just the standard old ball mouse for me here.
Guess those optical mice suck way more juice.
[ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
Also, I've only replaced the batteries once in like.. damn.. must be 4 or 5 months. And I've put this thing through a beating.
"2 buttons is 2 confusing."
If you're smart enough to figure out when to [option + click], then you pass the right mouse button test.
"Programs will start requiring a 2nd button."
Rubbish! As a long time Windows user, I have yet to encounter any program that requires 2 buttons. There are programs that make good use of it. But require? I don't think so.
"I like/need the one button mouse so they should keep it as the standard."
Who cares what you like or need? You are a small percentage of an even smaller percentage of computer users. What you like is irrelevant. What the greater market likes is what's important. If you have a special need, (I am disabled too), then you buy the special hardware/software. Don't make everyone else have to buy something extra or go third party because you can't use up to date features.
"I just can't use 2 buttons."
Then don't. Map the other button so that it does nothing. Woolla! You still have a one button mouse. The rest of the world will have a two button mouse without having to buy separate hardware.
"Apple has to differentiate itself from the rest of the market."
By sticking with less functional hardware and alienating the vast majority of computer users? Being different just for its own sake is called being contrary.
(This last one is my favorite.)
"Third party vendors would be upset."
Give me a break!!! With that philosophy, Apple should definitely stop branding monitors, keyboards, or anything else they brand. To carry this argument to its logical conclusion, (not that it is at all logical), Apple purposely includes second class input devices to keep MS and Logitech happy.
My own theory about the one button mouse is simple pride and arrogance on Apples part. They will never admit defeat or that they were wrong about an interface idea. I'm glad they tried it. that shows inventiveness. The fact that they won't move on, however, shows blind stubbornness.
For many reasons, this mouse issue is very symptomatic of why Apple can't gain market share. They don't understand the first thing about PC users and they wonder why the rest of the world looks at Apple, shrugs their shoulders and buys a Dell.
(What did the pirate say the movie was rated?)
This quandary can easily be solved, as has already been mentioned. OPTIONS. Oh, wait, Apple hates options. But, let's just say Apple smartens up. We may get a real "Pro" Mouse this WWDC or MWNY! I just bought a Logitech Cordless Optical, and it is almost perfect. Great range, etc, and I love the right click and scroll wheel. Hell, most Windoze people are used to this, and even expect this. one person I know would buy a Mac, except for ONE thing! No right click! (Yes, he is stupid. He didn't believe me until I showed him my Logitech on my iBook. PC people...)
The Logitech doesn't quite fit me right, however. But even worse, I hate having to lug a reciever around. heh. Cordless? Not quite... Apple or not, I am replacing it with a Bluetooth mouse and that tiny adapter (or maybe it will be built into the next PB, and I'll buy that! In my dreams)
The current "Pro" mouse is excellent, as an iMac mouse. I don't know why Apple calls it a Pro mouse. iMouse? Er.. I'll leave that to them. The fact is, most people HAVE used computers. Winblows computers. So, Apple should get with the program, on mice, and everything else. This situation is like their current predicament with RAM, or PCI, or ATA, or USB, or 1394a, or 802.11b, or...... Well, I guess we know this MWNY won't be boring. Apple has their work cut out for them.
[ 04-14-2002: Message edited by: Aquatik ]</p>