Just because other big tech is already doing this doesn't make "Apple is just late to the party" argument right. I've always stuck with Apple, and have never considered switching platforms for many reasons, but privacy is my #1. I can live with tech that isn't as cutting edge as other companies. Yes I miss the fingerprint reader, I would love a high refresh rate screen, or a super zoom lens, but Apple's stance on privacy trumps those things I don't have on an iPhone that I could have with another device. But this is a step too far. There's the question of giving up your rights for the good of society. Once we start giving up our freedoms for the sake of protection, where does it end? If they can do this with CSAM material, what's to stop other types of material in the future? Sure Apple will say no, but who knows what 10 years in the future would bring? Once the technology is introduced it can be changed at any time. What if China says "you need to flag and identify any people in our country that has these 100 images on their phone, or we're going to cut off all sales of iPhone in our country". What would Apple do then? Risk the sales of millions of iPhones or concede to the demand? I highly doubt it. Snowden is right, this needs to stop now.
I don't take advice from from the chicken little residing in Hotel Putin.
He’s literally there because he exposed the US government committed criminal constitutional violations against the American public. In fact, he’s there because our government has been proven capable of doing the exact type of illegal surveillance that people concerned about this new Apple program are talking about. You go ahead and keep cheering on totalitarianism wrapped in “save the children” and “stop terrorism” though.
He's literally there because he doesn't want to face the consequences of his acts and is willing to to serve as a stooge for Putin. You go ahead and bow down before him and Putin though, having others pay for the consequences of their actions is their signature move. Navalny gets all my respect for the courage of his moral stance, run away and hide chicken little gets none.
Just because other big tech is already doing this doesn't make "Apple is just late to the party" argument right.
Only hypocrites complain about Apple implementing a CSAM search methodology limited to syncing multiple pictures through their servers but have absolutely nothing to say and have said nothing up to now about how everyone else is performing more invasive searches.
iOS 15 Mail has a feature to obscure your IP address when loading remote images… and Apple offers to load them automatically with the obscured IP. How many people will have no idea what this is really about and choose to load images automatically? While the IP is obscured, the mere act of loading images confirms your email address is valid, that the messages are read, and indicates when they are read. So much for privacy.
How is this related to this article in any way? "So much for privacy", like it's Apple's fault. They remove tracking pixels and will be doing a few other things to obfuscate data for senders, but yes you are correct that loading remote content attached to your user ID reveals you opened it. This is an improvement over what's currently offered, and there's no magic solution here. What is your solution?
Don't open remote images in mail. The solution couldn't be more obvious or simple, and it should be the default.
And yes, that's completely different from Apple's spyware that scans your data on your phone.
yeah, Apple should break how embedded images in Email has worked for everyone because darkvader would enjoy the massive ensuing apple hate-fest.
Those of us who care know how to turn remote content off & why more people should do so.
Okay all you hand wringers, besides your histrionic end-of-the-world scenarios, what do you plan to do about it? Where will you go? Who will you buy your gear from? Where will you move to get away from the surveillance?
Answer? You can’t do ANYTHING except bitch about it, wallow in self pity and conspiracy theories. When this is implemented it will quickly die down and no one will care except you. Of course we’ll be subjected to your snide swipes in any thread remotely related to the subject, just like the ‘overpriced’ and ‘QA’ snipes that continue to abound.
iOS 15 Mail has a feature to obscure your IP address when loading remote images… and Apple offers to load them automatically with the obscured IP. How many people will have no idea what this is really about and choose to load images automatically? While the IP is obscured, the mere act of loading images confirms your email address is valid, that the messages are read, and indicates when they are read. So much for privacy.
How is this related to this article in any way? "So much for privacy", like it's Apple's fault. They remove tracking pixels and will be doing a few other things to obfuscate data for senders, but yes you are correct that loading remote content attached to your user ID reveals you opened it. This is an improvement over what's currently offered, and there's no magic solution here. What is your solution?
Don't open remote images in mail. The solution couldn't be more obvious or simple, and it should be the default.
And yes, that's completely different from Apple's spyware that scans your data on your phone.
Here’s the problem, “scans your data on your phones” is a disingenuous characterization. They have very clearly restricted the code to the iCloud interface. It only hashes pictures flagged for iCloud use and compares those hashes to the intersection of two distinct third party databases. They are not scanning to entirety of your phone because this is not a specific API. They have looked at the Supreme Courts rulings and understand that they cannot be forced to turn this into a general API (and thus available to all programs. So please take your Edgelord self off of my apartment ledge.
You guys, I just have to remind you that MS, Google, Facebook, and Twitter have been "scanning" your videos and images for CSAM for years. Apple was actually "late" to this feature. Now you're upset about Apple? LOL
Clearly, none of you people have a clue on how it works.
Snowden is a traitor and betrayed our Americans for exposing our privacy for the internet to see and you're worried about Apple who is making sure no child porn is shared across the Internet while preserving privacy?
What Google et al are doing is NOT the same thing as Apple proposes. The "cloud" is just a slang word that means someone else's computer. When you choose to upload a photo to a third party you lose the right to control over that same photo. Apple proposes that when you take a photo you lose control over it. That is very very different, and Snowdens point is exactly correct. It is true that Snowden broken laws but that isn't relevant to the conversation; it's an ad-hominem attack against what you perceive to be a character flaw. That type of character attack doesn't contribute anything and makes you look desperate to prove a point. Don't do it. As far as a "clue" about how it works, well I am afraid I do. Here is a link to a better writer than me: blog (hackerfactor blog). Read it.
You guys, I just have to remind you that MS, Google, Facebook, and Twitter have been "scanning" your videos and images for CSAM for years. Apple was actually "late" to this feature. Now you're upset about Apple? LOL
Clearly, none of you people have a clue on how it works.
Snowden is a traitor and betrayed our Americans for exposing our privacy for the internet to see and you're worried about Apple who is making sure no child porn is shared across the Internet while preserving privacy?
What Google et al are doing is NOT the same thing as Apple proposes. The "cloud" is just a slang word that means someone else's computer. When you choose to upload a photo to a third party you lose the right to control over that same photo. Apple proposes that when you take a photo you lose control over it. That is very very different, and Snowdens point is exactly correct. It is true that Snowden broken laws but that isn't relevant to the conversation; it's an ad-hominem attack against what you perceive to be a character flaw. That type of character attack doesn't contribute anything and makes you look desperate to prove a point. Don't do it. As far as a "clue" about how it works, well I am afraid I do. Here is a link to a better writer than me: blog (hackerfactor blog). Read it.
And you don’t look “look desperate to prove a point” with your disinformation and contrived nonsense about how this works? Why yes you do look desperate. But never fear, this will be implemented and you will have nowhere to go to get away from it unless you drop off the internet. Move to Android? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha… ha ha ha ha.
You guys, I just have to remind you that MS, Google, Facebook, and Twitter have been "scanning" your videos and images for CSAM for years. Apple was actually "late" to this feature. Now you're upset about Apple? LOL
Clearly, none of you people have a clue on how it works.
Snowden is a traitor and betrayed our Americans for exposing our privacy for the internet to see and you're worried about Apple who is making sure no child porn is shared across the Internet while preserving privacy?
We don’t want Apple to turn into Facebook or Google.
You guys, I just have to remind you that MS, Google, Facebook, and Twitter have been "scanning" your videos and images for CSAM for years. Apple was actually "late" to this feature. Now you're upset about Apple? LOL
Clearly, none of you people have a clue on how it works.
Snowden is a traitor and betrayed our Americans for exposing our privacy for the internet to see and you're worried about Apple who is making sure no child porn is shared across the Internet while preserving privacy?
What Google et al are doing is NOT the same thing as Apple proposes. The "cloud" is just a slang word that means someone else's computer. When you choose to upload a photo to a third party you lose the right to control over that same photo. Apple proposes that when you take a photo you lose control over it. That is very very different, and Snowdens point is exactly correct. It is true that Snowden broken laws but that isn't relevant to the conversation; it's an ad-hominem attack against what you perceive to be a character flaw. That type of character attack doesn't contribute anything and makes you look desperate to prove a point. Don't do it. As far as a "clue" about how it works, well I am afraid I do. Here is a link to a better writer than me: blog (hackerfactor blog). Read it.
And you don’t look “look desperate to prove a point” with your disinformation and contrived nonsense about how this works? Why yes you do look desperate. But never fear, this will be implemented and you will have nowhere to go to get away from it unless you drop off the internet. Move to Android? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha… ha ha ha ha.
Why are you making this a brand supremacy battle? It’s pretty ridiculous man. Plenty of people have a problem with this AND the stuff other companies are doing. Stop fanboying. I’m not sure what point you think you are proving by being like, “ha ha, you will have nowhere to run from the panopticon surveillance state!” Yeah dude, that’s kind of what people are concerned about and you think it’s some kind of mic drop.
You guys, I just have to remind you that MS, Google, Facebook, and Twitter have been "scanning" your videos and images for CSAM for years. Apple was actually "late" to this feature. Now you're upset about Apple? LOL
Clearly, none of you people have a clue on how it works.
Snowden is a traitor and betrayed our Americans for exposing our privacy for the internet to see and you're worried about Apple who is making sure no child porn is shared across the Internet while preserving privacy?
What Google et al are doing is NOT the same thing as Apple proposes. The "cloud" is just a slang word that means someone else's computer. When you choose to upload a photo to a third party you lose the right to control over that same photo. Apple proposes that when you take a photo you lose control over it. That is very very different, and Snowdens point is exactly correct. It is true that Snowden broken laws but that isn't relevant to the conversation; it's an ad-hominem attack against what you perceive to be a character flaw. That type of character attack doesn't contribute anything and makes you look desperate to prove a point. Don't do it. As far as a "clue" about how it works, well I am afraid I do. Here is a link to a better writer than me: blog (hackerfactor blog). Read it.
Apple is doing the hash compare on your device prior to uploading it their cloud server. Google et al do it after the image is uploaded to their server. Thus Google knows how many hits you get, while Apple has no idea since your device keeps it to itself until you hit the threshold.
If you're as worried about privacy as you say, then you should be as/more upset about Google et al having logs of your CSAM hash compare results.
You guys, I just have to remind you that MS, Google, Facebook, and Twitter have been "scanning" your videos and images for CSAM for years. Apple was actually "late" to this feature. Now you're upset about Apple? LOL
Clearly, none of you people have a clue on how it works.
Snowden is a traitor and betrayed our Americans for exposing our privacy for the internet to see and you're worried about Apple who is making sure no child porn is shared across the Internet while preserving privacy?
We don’t want Apple to turn into Facebook or Google.
Or Dropbox or Twitter or Tumblr or any big service hosting content? Yeah they all do CSAM hash scans for kiddie porn, my guy. And guess what -- Apple has too! This was first implemented server-side over a year ago, perhaps in 2019:
You guys, I just have to remind you that MS, Google, Facebook, and Twitter have been "scanning" your videos and images for CSAM for years. Apple was actually "late" to this feature. Now you're upset about Apple? LOL
Clearly, none of you people have a clue on how it works.
Snowden is a traitor and betrayed our Americans for exposing our privacy for the internet to see and you're worried about Apple who is making sure no child porn is shared across the Internet while preserving privacy?
We don’t want Apple to turn into Facebook or Google.
Or Dropbox or Twitter or Tumblr or any big service hosting content? Yeah they all do CSAM hash scans for kiddie porn, my guy. And guess what -- Apple has too! This was first implemented server-side over a year ago, perhaps in 2019:
The difference being that those other companies did not try to build themselves up as being the "privacy company" with massive marketing campaigns which turned out to be all lies in the end.
You guys, I just have to remind you that MS, Google, Facebook, and Twitter have been "scanning" your videos and images for CSAM for years. Apple was actually "late" to this feature. Now you're upset about Apple? LOL
Clearly, none of you people have a clue on how it works.
Snowden is a traitor and betrayed our Americans for exposing our privacy for the internet to see and you're worried about Apple who is making sure no child porn is shared across the Internet while preserving privacy?
I also stated in a post yesterday that Apple has been scanning outgoing and incoming icloud email for CSAM since 2019 and I haven't heard any of this outrage?
From what I keep reading folks are stuck in the thinking that they are scanning on device only for your photos. If someone here can provide proof that the entire process is done totally on device without uploading to iCloud being necessary please provide this info.
Federighi said “the cloud does the other half of the algorithm,” so
while photos are scanned on the device it requires iCloud to fully work.
Federighi emphatically stated that the system is “literally part of the
pipeline for storing images in iCloud.”
Same misinformation is going around about the message scanning for kids underage.. iMessages scans explicit images within the message app on device, so iMessage remains encrypted end to end and Apple doesn't see anything.
If a parent or family leader opts in users under 18 will get a a blurred image in the text and a message asking f they want to view the image. Like a NSFW warning.. if the child is 13 or younger and they choose to view or send this type of image a message is sent to the family leader saying an image was viewed or sent. It does not send the text to a parent to see what the child is sending or receiving like some folks may think. Like why in the world would Apple pass an under age explicit image to a parent's device? What parent would want those type of images of kids anywhere near their personal devices? I think the notification would be enough proof without needing see an explicit underage photo or message.
This is how I understand the 2 separate scanning features.. If someone knows better please share the info.
I agree 100% with Snowden, doing this spying on the device is the worst thing ever from Apple. Hopefully Apple changes mind and put this in iCloud. This would make me updating to iOS 15 and buying an iPhone 13 Pro as I originally planned.
I agree 100% with Snowden, doing this spying on the device is the worst thing ever from Apple. Hopefully Apple changes mind and put this in iCloud. This would make me updating to iOS 15 and buying an iPhone 13 Pro as I originally planned.
I agree 100% with Snowden, doing this spying on the device is the worst thing ever from Apple. Hopefully Apple changes mind and put this in iCloud. This would make me updating to iOS 15 and buying an iPhone 13 Pro as I originally planned.
And what are you gonna do with competitors like Microsoft and Google? They have been using that approach for YEARS!!!! When are you gonna learn to realize your view is irrational and illogical with no basis in reality and only backfires if you buy a non-Apple products loaded with bloatware and spyware which will know about you more than Apple does?
Snowden is a hero, and he knows exactly what he’s talking about. He should long have been given political asylum in a Western European country, and be nominated for the Nobel peace prize together with Assange.
Comments
He's literally there because he doesn't want to face the consequences of his acts and is willing to to serve as a stooge for Putin. You go ahead and bow down before him and Putin though, having others pay for the consequences of their actions is their signature move. Navalny gets all my respect for the courage of his moral stance, run away and hide chicken little gets none.
yeah, Apple should break how embedded images in Email has worked for everyone because darkvader would enjoy the massive ensuing apple hate-fest.
Those of us who care know how to turn remote content off & why more people should do so.
Answer? You can’t do ANYTHING except bitch about it, wallow in self pity and conspiracy theories. When this is implemented it will quickly die down and no one will care except you. Of course we’ll be subjected to your snide swipes in any thread remotely related to the subject, just like the ‘overpriced’ and ‘QA’ snipes that continue to abound.
Apple has ‘destroyed’ its brand? Hardly.
Meanwhile: Microsoft, Dropbox, Google, and all the others have been doing this same hash comparing for years. (Apple has too, server-side)
If you're as worried about privacy as you say, then you should be as/more upset about Google et al having logs of your CSAM hash compare results.
https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2020/01/09/apples-scanning-icloud-photos-for-child-abuse-images/ ;
He should long have been given political asylum in a Western European country, and be nominated for the Nobel peace prize together with Assange.