Qualcomm says its Apple Silicon rival chips will be in PCs by late 2023

AppleInsider · April 29, 2022 4:36PM

Nuvia Arm processors from Qualcomm are now said to be on track for shipping in PCs by late 2023, making the company behind schedule to compete with Apple Silicon.

Credit: WikiMedia Commons

In November 2021, Qualcomm predicted that it would take nine months for its newly-acquired Nuvia Arm processors to take on Apple's M-series chips. That would mean at least testing the processors in 2022, with shipping products expected to be in 2023.

According to Tom's Hardware, however, Qualcomm's president and CEO Christian Amon has confirmed that "development is on track, and we expect to have [the processors] in late 2023."

Amon also said that Qualcomm's use of the Nuvia-designed processor was specifically because the company is "going after the performance tier."

Qualcomm bought Nuvia for $14 billlion in 2021. Chip designer Nuvia was founded by former Apple employees, which has led to a series of legal issues.

Previously, Qualcomm's predictions for the Nuvia processors have centered on it being a way to make Windows laptops that rival Apple's M1 chips in the MacBook Pro. However, Apple has already said that it will be making no more versions of the M1, and the expectation is that by 2023 it will already be on to an M2, or even M3.

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lkrupp · April 29, 2022 5:24PM

Promises, promises. And where will Apple’s M-series be in 2023 by the way? Falling behind? It’s clear that Apple has lit a fire under the asses of Qualcomm, Intel, AMD, and the rest or they wouldn’t be making these claims. That’s good for the industry.

netrox · April 29, 2022 5:30PM

With what OS? Windows on ARM? ARM Linux?

foregoneconclusion · April 29, 2022 5:32PM

Nuvia sounds like an artificial sweetener.

blastdoor · April 29, 2022 7:22PM

This the most interesting potential development in the PC CPU space since Ryzen (potentially more interesting, really).

Qualcomm doesn't have to beat Apple to succeed, they just have to beat Intel. Major factors affecting this outcome include:

1. Do they get strong support from Microsoft?
2. Does TSMC retain the process lead over Intel?
3. Do developers port and optimize?

My guesses:

1. Sort of...
2. Yes.... barely
3. Some key developers do... most second tier don't

And so the result will be:
moderate success, enough to keep trying.

dewme · April 29, 2022 7:36PM

blastdoor said:

This the most interesting potential development in the PC CPU space since Ryzen (potentially more interesting, really).

Qualcomm doesn't have to beat Apple to succeed, they just have to beat Intel. Major factors affecting this outcome include:

1. Do they get strong support from Microsoft?
2. Does TSMC retain the process lead over Intel?
3. Do developers port and optimize?

My guesses:

1. Sort of...
2. Yes.... barely
3. Some key developers do... most second tier don't

And so the result will be:
moderate success, enough to keep trying.

Nice summation that sounds reasonable. The X-factor that I see that’s still working in Apple’s favor is that they still own the whole HW/SW stack. If Qualcomm’s definition of “PC” encapsulates current Wintel (or WinX86) products Apple still comes away a big winner. Trying to take on Apple by emulating Apple’s strategy (Apple Silicon) is one thing, but when you’re doing it without the benefits that Apple enjoys by owning the whole stack is quite another thing. Your #1 and #3 points are going to be a big struggle for the vast majority of PC vendors, save Microsoft itself. Even then, Microsoft probably wants to do their own silicon.

lorca2770 · April 29, 2022 7:45PM

dewme said:

blastdoor said:

This the most interesting potential development in the PC CPU space since Ryzen (potentially more interesting, really).

Qualcomm doesn't have to beat Apple to succeed, they just have to beat Intel. Major factors affecting this outcome include:

1. Do they get strong support from Microsoft?
2. Does TSMC retain the process lead over Intel?
3. Do developers port and optimize?

My guesses:

1. Sort of...
2. Yes.... barely
3. Some key developers do... most second tier don't

And so the result will be:
moderate success, enough to keep trying.

Nice summation that sounds reasonable. The X-factor that I see that’s still working in Apple’s favor is that they still own the whole HW/SW stack. If Qualcomm’s definition of “PC” encapsulates current Wintel (or WinX86) products Apple still comes away a big winner. Trying to take on Apple by emulating Apple’s strategy (Apple Silicon) is one thing, but when you’re doing it without the benefits that Apple enjoys by owning the whole stack is quite another thing. Your #1 and #3 points are going to be a big struggle for the vast majority of PC vendors, save Microsoft itself. Even then, Microsoft probably wants to do their own silicon.

"...Even then, Microsoft probably wants to do their own silicon..." That is were the money is. That is the reality of combining silicon and sofware under the same roof. Not a good prospect for Qualcomm

tommikele · April 29, 2022 8:09PM

Since Apple makes their own chips for their products and does not sell them to others, perhaps the writer could explain how Qualcomm's chip are competition for Apple.

blastdoor · April 29, 2022 8:42PM

dewme said:

blastdoor said:

This the most interesting potential development in the PC CPU space since Ryzen (potentially more interesting, really).

Qualcomm doesn't have to beat Apple to succeed, they just have to beat Intel. Major factors affecting this outcome include:

1. Do they get strong support from Microsoft?
2. Does TSMC retain the process lead over Intel?
3. Do developers port and optimize?

My guesses:

1. Sort of...
2. Yes.... barely
3. Some key developers do... most second tier don't

And so the result will be:
moderate success, enough to keep trying.

Nice summation that sounds reasonable. The X-factor that I see that’s still working in Apple’s favor is that they still own the whole HW/SW stack. If Qualcomm’s definition of “PC” encapsulates current Wintel (or WinX86) products Apple still comes away a big winner. Trying to take on Apple by emulating Apple’s strategy (Apple Silicon) is one thing, but when you’re doing it without the benefits that Apple enjoys by owning the whole stack is quite another thing. Your #1 and #3 points are going to be a big struggle for the vast majority of PC vendors, save Microsoft itself. Even then, Microsoft probably wants to do their own silicon.

Exactly -- owning the whole stack is huge, and nobody else does. The analogs for Apple are:

1. 100% support for Apple Silicon from Apple Operating Systems
2. Yes... barely
3. There's going to be only one CPU architecture to support on the Mac, and that's ASi. So Mac developers will support ASi. There's really no choice.

But it's not hopeless for Qualcomm -- they just have to keep plugging away, much as AMD has had to over the years. If the Nuvia chips are consistently better than x86 year after year, MS and developer support will eventually emerge.

22july2013 · April 29, 2022 11:04PM

Now is the time for Apple to sell its M Series chips to PC vendors. Get a foothold before the competition does.

nicholfd · April 30, 2022 12:15AM

22july2013 said:

Now is the time for Apple to sell its M Series chips to PC vendors. Get a foothold before the competition does.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?

What makes you think there's 40%+ margin on M Series CPUs? What makes you think Microsoft would support Windows on M Series CPUs (they haven't on the Mac yet...)?

Apple has never been, and never will be a component vendor, especially for competitors. Apple pays someone else to make Apple designed components for Apple products.

PERIOD.

nicholfd · April 30, 2022 12:27AM

designr said:

Lemme see if I have this right.

Qualcomm just announced that they are 2-years behind Apple.

Did I get it right?

Nope - they announced they are 3-years behind Apple.

They stated late, 2023 for consumer product release. M1 mini & MacBook Air were released late 2020 (got mine November, 2020).

edited April 2022

luthers95reeses · April 30, 2022 2:02AM

foregoneconclusion said:

Nuvia sounds like an artificial sweetener.

Or a birth control ring

ktr · April 30, 2022 2:14PM

blastdoor said:

dewme said:

blastdoor said:

This the most interesting potential development in the PC CPU space since Ryzen (potentially more interesting, really).

Qualcomm doesn't have to beat Apple to succeed, they just have to beat Intel. Major factors affecting this outcome include:

1. Do they get strong support from Microsoft?
2. Does TSMC retain the process lead over Intel?
3. Do developers port and optimize?

My guesses:

1. Sort of...
2. Yes.... barely
3. Some key developers do... most second tier don't

And so the result will be:
moderate success, enough to keep trying.

Nice summation that sounds reasonable. The X-factor that I see that’s still working in Apple’s favor is that they still own the whole HW/SW stack. If Qualcomm’s definition of “PC” encapsulates current Wintel (or WinX86) products Apple still comes away a big winner. Trying to take on Apple by emulating Apple’s strategy (Apple Silicon) is one thing, but when you’re doing it without the benefits that Apple enjoys by owning the whole stack is quite another thing. Your #1 and #3 points are going to be a big struggle for the vast majority of PC vendors, save Microsoft itself. Even then, Microsoft probably wants to do their own silicon.

Exactly -- owning the whole stack is huge, and nobody else does. The analogs for Apple are:

1. 100% support for Apple Silicon from Apple Operating Systems
2. Yes... barely
3. There's going to be only one CPU architecture to support on the Mac, and that's ASi. So Mac developers will support ASi. There's really no choice.

But it's not hopeless for Qualcomm -- they just have to keep plugging away, much as AMD has had to over the years. If the Nuvia chips are consistently better than x86 year after year, MS and developer support will eventually emerge.

The problem I see, is, how are they going to solve the vas majority of programs running on that soc?

ktr · April 30, 2022 2:15PM

yea

danox · April 30, 2022 7:50PM

netrox said:

With what OS? Windows on ARM? ARM Linux?

Qualcomm hoping companies will sign on and give them half of everything they sell.

22july2013 · April 30, 2022 8:02PM

nicholfd said:

22july2013 said:

Now is the time for Apple to sell its M Series chips to PC vendors. Get a foothold before the competition does.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?

What makes you think there's 40%+ margin on M Series CPUs? What makes you think Microsoft would support Windows on M Series CPUs (they haven't on the Mac yet...)?

Apple has never been, and never will be a component vendor, especially for competitors. Apple pays someone else to make Apple designed components for Apple products.

PERIOD.

Actually Apple was a "component vendor" for its own competitors when they allowed other PC manufacturers to install Mac OS 7 on their new PCs, for a license fee of $50 per computer. A total of 75 different manufacturers made legal, licensed Mac clones from 1995 to 1997.

There's a second goofy mistake in your post, but I'm not going to waste my time correcting you.

bonobob · April 30, 2022 10:22PM

Qualcomm's phone chips get 2 years of driver support. If they do the same with their PC chips, folks will need to replace their PCs every 2 years in order to get security updates, if it all works out like with Android.

waveparticle · April 30, 2022 11:01PM

blastdoor said:

This the most interesting potential development in the PC CPU space since Ryzen (potentially more interesting, really).

Qualcomm doesn't have to beat Apple to succeed, they just have to beat Intel. Major factors affecting this outcome include:

1. Do they get strong support from Microsoft?
2. Does TSMC retain the process lead over Intel?
3. Do developers port and optimize?

My guesses:

1. Sort of...
2. Yes.... barely
3. Some key developers do... most second tier don't

And so the result will be:
moderate success, enough to keep trying.

Microsoft will gladly support. Because it can charge PC users again for the ported Office suite.

nicholfd · April 30, 2022 11:47PM

waveparticle said:

blastdoor said:

This the most interesting potential development in the PC CPU space since Ryzen (potentially more interesting, really).

Qualcomm doesn't have to beat Apple to succeed, they just have to beat Intel. Major factors affecting this outcome include:

1. Do they get strong support from Microsoft?
2. Does TSMC retain the process lead over Intel?
3. Do developers port and optimize?

My guesses:

1. Sort of...
2. Yes.... barely
3. Some key developers do... most second tier don't

And so the result will be:
moderate success, enough to keep trying.

Microsoft will gladly support. Because it can charge PC users again for the ported Office suite.

You must not realize they do not do that now. You have one O365 subscription, and it's cross platform/architecture.

On whatever platform (OS)/architecture, you just log in with your Microsoft O365 credentials, in the Office apps.

edited April 2022

larryjw · May 2, 2022 1:09PM

So, Qualcomm become another supplier of ARM chips (and the other support chips which are required to build a complete system?).

There are a number of SOCs on the market, and who knows how many embedded systems. Are companies waiting around for Qualcomm to deliver something special, when there are many suppliers already?

Qualcomm will have to bring something very special to the table have an effect.

Qualcomm says its Apple Silicon rival chips will be in PCs by late 2023

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