UK won't copy EU USB-C common charger mandate

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 55
    omasouomasou Posts: 575member
    GG1 said:
    omasou said:
    mfryd said:
    The new EU rule only applies to phones that used wired charging.  It does not apply to phones that only use wireless charging (such as Apple's MagSafe).  If Apple used software to disable charging on the lightning port, that would make the iPhone 13 compliant with the new USB-C rule.
    or move to wireless charging on all new phones and ditch the lighting port.
    What port does the charging puck use? ;)
    I believe the law requires the device port to be USBC but if talking about both end of the cable then Apple already has USBC version of the puck for watch and phone. So a non-issue, just need to delete the device port. done.
    edited June 2022
  • Reply 42 of 55
    omasouomasou Posts: 575member
    scatz said:
    A sadly political piece.

    I much prefer articles purely about Apple and their product from this site.
    +1

    I also don't understand the "comparison" articles. I don't follow other companies so what they sell and if it's good or not is not relevant, at least to me. Nor do I understand their brand structure, e.g. is a Samsung Note a low-end, mid-tier, high-end? Don't know. Don't care.

    Give me in-depth articles about Apple and Apple product that I may have not known or missed in the announcement but don't rehash an announcement. Articles have been weak lately. Must be a result of the recent hires?

    Oh, and stop creating articles for the sole purpose of including affiliate links. They are transparent and we are not that stupid.
    edited June 2022 mobird
  • Reply 43 of 55
    kiltedgreenkiltedgreen Posts: 599member
    If I was a manufacturer, would I think ” the UK doesn’t have to have a USB-C port, so just for them I’ll make a special model that uses lighting instead and increase my production costs accordingly”?

    No. I’d be an idiot to do that. So we will still get the lightning port dropped just like all other member states. Our stupid government thinks we can just make our own rules, but when you sell to other countries (or huge markets like the EU) we still have to meet their regulations to do so.

    Leaving the EU Is probably the largest act of self-harm we have ever done in this country. We now have to comply with all EU regulations (if we actually made any mobile phones!), but unlike when we were members, we can no longer be part of writing the regulations we will still have to adhere to in order to sell there.

    It’s way beyond idiotic.
    avon b7chelindarkvaderargonaut
  • Reply 44 of 55
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    xbit said:
    You say "the UK lost the protection of EU agreements when it left the Union".  it's however more like that since BREXIT the UK is now protected FROM that bunch of un-elected bureaucratic buffoons !
    The UK has an unelected second house and an unelected head of state.

    And this USB-C regulation is the perfect example of the short-sightedness of leaving the EU. Devices sold in the UK will be affected by this legistlation whether the UK is in or out of the EU. All that's changed is that the UK has lost its seat at the table deciding on the regulations.
    And now, tortes are talking about going back to Imperial. Talk about stupid.
    muthuk_vanalingamdarkvaderargonaut
  • Reply 45 of 55
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    omasou said:
    GG1 said:
    omasou said:
    mfryd said:
    The new EU rule only applies to phones that used wired charging.  It does not apply to phones that only use wireless charging (such as Apple's MagSafe).  If Apple used software to disable charging on the lightning port, that would make the iPhone 13 compliant with the new USB-C rule.
    or move to wireless charging on all new phones and ditch the lighting port.
    What port does the charging puck use? ;)
    I believe the law requires the device port to be USBC but if talking about both end of the cable then Apple already has USBC version of the puck for watch and phone. So a non-issue, just need to delete the device port. done.
    No.
    darkvader
  • Reply 46 of 55
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member

    omasou said:
    scatz said:
    A sadly political piece.

    I much prefer articles purely about Apple and their product from this site.
    +1

    I also don't understand the "comparison" articles. I don't follow other companies so what they sell and if it's good or not is not relevant, at least to me. Nor do I understand their brand structure, e.g. is a Samsung Note a low-end, mid-tier, high-end? Don't know. Don't care.

    Give me in-depth articles about Apple and Apple product that I may have not known or missed in the announcement but don't rehash an announcement. Articles have been weak lately. Must be a result of the recent hires?

    Oh, and stop creating articles for the sole purpose of including affiliate links. They are transparent and we are not that stupid.
    Most of us do follow it, so the articles are, at the very least, interesting.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 47 of 55
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 757member
    mfryd said:
    The new EU rule only applies to phones that used wired charging.  It does not apply to phones that only use wireless charging (such as Apple's MagSafe).  If Apple used software to disable charging on the lightning port, that would make the iPhone 13 compliant with the new USB-C rule.
    Sounds like EU just helped Apple sell more Magsafe chargers.  We shareholders thank the Union.
    edited June 2022
  • Reply 48 of 55
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,913member
    Portless iPhone is great but understand the world moves slower to support wireless charging everywhere; common places like airports, in flight charging, billions of public places where you can find USB or Electric plug to charge your phone/tablets/etc with adapter/cable. This shows portless phones will take longer than we would like to see.
  • Reply 49 of 55
    darkvaderdarkvader Posts: 1,146member
    Fortunately for the UK (and the US) it won't matter.

    USB-C is coming on iPhones worldwide.  Apple's idiotic proprietary connector is living on borrowed time.
  • Reply 50 of 55
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,564member
    space808 said:
    viclauyyc said:
    melgross said:
    It doesn’t matter if the UK doesn’t follow the rule. Can anyone imagine Apple using two different ports? One on phones going to some nations, and a different one going elsewhere? Not going to happen. Apple has almost definitely been studying going to USB C for years. This won’t be something out of the blue for them. There are advantages in transfer speeds. They could implement 20Gb/s. If they had the power budget they could even have Thunderbolt. Lightning is a better physical connector, and slimmer. But with Apple going to slightly thicker phones the past few years, that slight difference isn’t important anymore. It’s also been better sealed against water intrusion, but new USB C connectors are much improved.

    so the case for staying with Lightning only in the phone, basically, is becoming less supportable. And this would give Apple the excuse to tell people with lots of Lightning cables and accessories that they were forced to do it, so don’t get ticked off at them, blame the EU instead. That would be a win for Apple.
    I think the more important issues is the future. Sure USB C is the best option now. But what about 10 years down the road? The same thing applies to SCSI, it was the best, but hardly anyone use it now. And we all know government is really slow to react to change. So EU user might need to use USB C for the next 20 years. 

    Because regulations just cannot be updated, can they? It's not like the EU has engineers on hand that make technical recommendations to the commission.. Nope.
    Remember that if they’d had their way five years ago, we’d be stuck with micro-USB today… USB-C will be in its eighth year of widespread adoption when this regulation takes effect in 2024. 

    Whatever advances might loom in the future, the EU will not be nimble in adopting it…
    tmay
  • Reply 51 of 55
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    spheric said:
    space808 said:
    viclauyyc said:
    melgross said:
    It doesn’t matter if the UK doesn’t follow the rule. Can anyone imagine Apple using two different ports? One on phones going to some nations, and a different one going elsewhere? Not going to happen. Apple has almost definitely been studying going to USB C for years. This won’t be something out of the blue for them. There are advantages in transfer speeds. They could implement 20Gb/s. If they had the power budget they could even have Thunderbolt. Lightning is a better physical connector, and slimmer. But with Apple going to slightly thicker phones the past few years, that slight difference isn’t important anymore. It’s also been better sealed against water intrusion, but new USB C connectors are much improved.

    so the case for staying with Lightning only in the phone, basically, is becoming less supportable. And this would give Apple the excuse to tell people with lots of Lightning cables and accessories that they were forced to do it, so don’t get ticked off at them, blame the EU instead. That would be a win for Apple.
    I think the more important issues is the future. Sure USB C is the best option now. But what about 10 years down the road? The same thing applies to SCSI, it was the best, but hardly anyone use it now. And we all know government is really slow to react to change. So EU user might need to use USB C for the next 20 years. 

    Because regulations just cannot be updated, can they? It's not like the EU has engineers on hand that make technical recommendations to the commission.. Nope.
    Remember that if they’d had their way five years ago, we’d be stuck with micro-USB today… USB-C will be in its eighth year of widespread adoption when this regulation takes effect in 2024. 

    Whatever advances might loom in the future, the EU will not be nimble in adopting it…
    What do you mean "if" they had their way?  They did have their way, they issued a memo (13 years ago not 5), got broad sign up, the industry shifted to use micro-USB, and then was in a position to rapidly adopt USB-C.  All except Apple, who dithered, necessitating a more direct approach.  They originally considered a second memo, but specifically called out "a major mobile phone manufacturer" for "the use of proprietary charging interfaces" as a reason that a simple revision wasn't satisfactory.  

    If Apple had moved to USB-C of their own accord there probably wouldn't be regulation on the cards because there wouldn't need to be.


    muthuk_vanalingamargonaut
  • Reply 52 of 55
    wood1208 said:
    Portless iPhone is great but understand the world moves slower to support wireless charging everywhere; common places like airports, in flight charging, billions of public places where you can find USB or Electric plug to charge your phone/tablets/etc with adapter/cable. This shows portless phones will take longer than we would like to see.
    Instead of bringing your USB to lightning cable to all those places, bring your USB to MagSafe cable. Done.
  • Reply 53 of 55
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,053member
    crowley said:
    spheric said:
    space808 said:
    viclauyyc said:
    melgross said:
    It doesn’t matter if the UK doesn’t follow the rule. Can anyone imagine Apple using two different ports? One on phones going to some nations, and a different one going elsewhere? Not going to happen. Apple has almost definitely been studying going to USB C for years. This won’t be something out of the blue for them. There are advantages in transfer speeds. They could implement 20Gb/s. If they had the power budget they could even have Thunderbolt. Lightning is a better physical connector, and slimmer. But with Apple going to slightly thicker phones the past few years, that slight difference isn’t important anymore. It’s also been better sealed against water intrusion, but new USB C connectors are much improved.

    so the case for staying with Lightning only in the phone, basically, is becoming less supportable. And this would give Apple the excuse to tell people with lots of Lightning cables and accessories that they were forced to do it, so don’t get ticked off at them, blame the EU instead. That would be a win for Apple.
    I think the more important issues is the future. Sure USB C is the best option now. But what about 10 years down the road? The same thing applies to SCSI, it was the best, but hardly anyone use it now. And we all know government is really slow to react to change. So EU user might need to use USB C for the next 20 years. 

    Because regulations just cannot be updated, can they? It's not like the EU has engineers on hand that make technical recommendations to the commission.. Nope.
    Remember that if they’d had their way five years ago, we’d be stuck with micro-USB today… USB-C will be in its eighth year of widespread adoption when this regulation takes effect in 2024. 

    Whatever advances might loom in the future, the EU will not be nimble in adopting it…
    What do you mean "if" they had their way?  They did have their way, they issued a memo (13 years ago not 5), got broad sign up, the industry shifted to use micro-USB, and then was in a position to rapidly adopt USB-C.  All except Apple, who dithered, necessitating a more direct approach.  They originally considered a second memo, but specifically called out "a major mobile phone manufacturer" for "the use of proprietary charging interfaces" as a reason that a simple revision wasn't satisfactory.  

    If Apple had moved to USB-C of their own accord there probably wouldn't be regulation on the cards because there wouldn't need to be.

    The industry shifting to micro-USB had nothing to do with some 2009 EU memo (MoU). Micro-USB was already writing on wall before 2009. The micro-USB was introduced in 2007. 

    One of the most popular cell phone at the time (and of all times) was the Motorola Razr. This was a $499 cell phone introduced in 2003. 4 years before a $599 iPhone put the smart in smartphone and 6 years before any EU memo. The Motorola Razr in 2003 already adopted the USB mini. As with many other cell phones from Nokia, LG, Philips, Samsung, Sony, Blackberry, etc., at the time. Why? Because faster data exchange with a computer was becoming a necessity rather than an option. Before cell phones had cameras and were MP3 players and were being used as PDA's, syncing to a computer wasn't that important. In fact, if you look at early cell phones that mainly function as phones, they had a dedicated port for charging and another port for syncing to a computer using the computer 9 pin serial port. This was mainly so one could use a computer to input contact data, rather than entering the data using a numeric keypad. (Remember the almost toothpick thin audio like charging plug for a Nokia? Or the tiny clip like one for Motorola clamshell phones? Or the $30 dedicated sync cable?) This was the source of 30 different type of chargers at the time. And of course, one never got the syncing cable with the purchase of the phone. Phone companies like Nokia, Motorola, LG, Samsung, etc., rather "upsell" the syncing cable. They only provided the charger.

    So there was no way that the upcoming smartphones in 2009, were not going to adopt micro-USB, to sync data. Serial ports were already gone and MB of data turned into GB of data. Plus mobile phones companies weren't going to use anything other than micro-US for data syncing because it was already designed to be backward compatible with devices using USB min (and USB A)i. Smartphone makers (at the time) didn't choose to adopt micro-USB to charge their phone, because of some EC memo about standardizing chargers. They were going to choose micro-USB to sync with a computer anyway, because it was the most logical and economical choice.

    What the EU memo did was to ensure that all smartphones makers that was going to adopt micro-USB for data, get together to come up with a standard charging protocol so that they could all use the same charger. It did not require any smartphone maker to adopt the micro-USB for transferring data. And the EU went out of their way to mention that it did not want this memo to hinder innovation. 

    from your link

    https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-and-electronic-engineering-industries-eei/radio-equipment-directive-red/one-common-charging-solution-all_en

    >The European Commission facilitated an agreement among major handset manufacturers to adopt a common charger for data-enabled mobile phones sold in the EU.

    In June 2009, phone manufacturers agreed to sign a memorandum of understanding (MoU), agreeing to harmonise chargers for new models of data-enabled handsets, coming onto the market as of 2011.<


    No where did it state that the EC facilitated the adaptation of micro-USB for data transfer. Since the micro-USB for data transfer was already going to be the choice of most smartphone makers, the EC played a hand in making sure chargers between them are standardized. That's why this only pertain to data-enabled phones. Phones that didn't need high speed data transfer, did not need to have a micro-USB for data transfer and were not required to use micro-USB just for charging.

    from this press release

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_09_1049

    >In a Memorandum of Understanding (“MoU”), which was submitted to the Commission today, the industry commits to provide chargers compatibility on the basis of the Micro-USB connector.<

    That is not saying the industry were committed to use micro-USB in order to standardize chargers. What they committed to was to standardized chargers so to be compatible with all phones adopting micro-USB. The compatibility and standardization of the charger will be developed by all that signed the memo.  



    From a link of the 2009 EU memo, that was signed by Apple and others ...

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/MEMO_09_301

    >Are all mobile phones covered by the MoU?

    The MoU covers micro-USB data-enabled mobile phones. The MoU excludes mobile phones which do not support USB data exchange and also certain unusual formats of phone, for example phones worn as wristwatches.<

    Notice the memo wasn't requiring phones to use micro-USB and did not pertain to phones that wasn't using USB for data exchange. The iPhone did not use USB for data exchange. At the time it was still using the 30 pin and later switched to lightning, for data exchange. USB is hardware interface. But Apple did make it so that micro-USB chargers would be compatible with lightning, using the proper adapter cable. 


    https://techpp.com/2012/10/19/apple-lightning-connector-vs-micro-usb/

    In 2012, the lightning was superior to micro-mini. Since the EC memo was not suppose to stop companies from innovating better tech, Apple was allowed to use their lightning connector. Apple did not back out of any agreement by not adopting micro-USB. There was never any agreement or requirement by the EC, for phone makers to use micro-USB. The agreement was that if they were going to use micro-USB for data, they agreed to help develop standards for charging so that all phones using a micro-USB connector for data exchange, can use the same standard charger. It took USB C to catch up with a lightning in 2015. Even today, lightning can offer USB3 data speed and fast charging. But it looks like the EU will no longer allow Apple to use it, as they did in 2012, because it's not considered superior to USB C. 


    Yes, the EU did have their way with this memo (in 2009) but only for the standardization of the charger for phones that adopted the micro-USB connector. Which is all they wanted to do. But no way can the EU take or you give any credit, for the industry shifting to micro-USB because of this memo. The shift was going to happen regardless, the EU knew this and took advantage to make sure chargers were going to be standardized with devices adopting micro-USB, before the big shift to micro-USB. It's just the progression from serial 232 to USB A to USB mini to micro-USB  to USB C and later to the next USB. The industry is not going to stop developing better USB, just because the EU made the USB C charger standard. If the EU had put forth regulation mandating phones to come with a micro-USB in 2010, we might not had seen USB C appear on devices as soon as it did in 2015.The eventual truth is that even the USB C chargers, will eventually end up being stored unused in consumers drawers or as E-waste. Just like the 10 year old 5W Apple chargers now.   








  • Reply 54 of 55
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Dude, get yourself an editor or something because for all those hundreds of words you've written I have sod all idea what your pedantry is trying to achieve, and little understanding of what you're really getting at, banging on about data as if it's relevant.  Nothing you said provides any argument against what I stated.  Not a word.  

    And as for:
    But no way can the EU take or you give any credit, for the industry shifting to micro-USB because of this memo. The shift was going to happen regardless, the EU knew this and took advantage to make sure chargers were going to be standardized with devices adopting micro-USB, before the big shift to micro-USB.
    ???  What "advantage" did they take?  You're accusing the bloated, communist, overreaching EU of writing a memo ensuring that something that was already happening happened?  For "advantage"?  What hindsight inspired advantage are you dreaming of?


    Your entire post is hindsight hubris.  Maybe Micro-USB on phones would have happened anyway, it's possible.  But you can't say that for sure, or that it would have happened at the speed it did.  That's what the memo was seeking to ensure.  And it did, except for Apple.

    muthuk_vanalingamavon b7
  • Reply 55 of 55
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,341member
    crowley said:
    spheric said:
    space808 said:
    viclauyyc said:
    melgross said:
    It doesn’t matter if the UK doesn’t follow the rule. Can anyone imagine Apple using two different ports? One on phones going to some nations, and a different one going elsewhere? Not going to happen. Apple has almost definitely been studying going to USB C for years. This won’t be something out of the blue for them. There are advantages in transfer speeds. They could implement 20Gb/s. If they had the power budget they could even have Thunderbolt. Lightning is a better physical connector, and slimmer. But with Apple going to slightly thicker phones the past few years, that slight difference isn’t important anymore. It’s also been better sealed against water intrusion, but new USB C connectors are much improved.

    so the case for staying with Lightning only in the phone, basically, is becoming less supportable. And this would give Apple the excuse to tell people with lots of Lightning cables and accessories that they were forced to do it, so don’t get ticked off at them, blame the EU instead. That would be a win for Apple.
    I think the more important issues is the future. Sure USB C is the best option now. But what about 10 years down the road? The same thing applies to SCSI, it was the best, but hardly anyone use it now. And we all know government is really slow to react to change. So EU user might need to use USB C for the next 20 years. 

    Because regulations just cannot be updated, can they? It's not like the EU has engineers on hand that make technical recommendations to the commission.. Nope.
    Remember that if they’d had their way five years ago, we’d be stuck with micro-USB today… USB-C will be in its eighth year of widespread adoption when this regulation takes effect in 2024. 

    Whatever advances might loom in the future, the EU will not be nimble in adopting it…
    What do you mean "if" they had their way?  They did have their way, they issued a memo (13 years ago not 5), got broad sign up, the industry shifted to use micro-USB, and then was in a position to rapidly adopt USB-C.  All except Apple, who dithered, necessitating a more direct approach.  They originally considered a second memo, but specifically called out "a major mobile phone manufacturer" for "the use of proprietary charging interfaces" as a reason that a simple revision wasn't satisfactory.  

    If Apple had moved to USB-C of their own accord there probably wouldn't be regulation on the cards because there wouldn't need to be.

    FFS. 

    The regulations were promulgated to reduce electronic waste. There wasn't any advantage to restrict Apple from providing a 2g dongle to meet the micro USB standard, and for the record, micro USB was an abysmal standard, especially after Apple released Lightning. That Apple wanted to transition to a connector superior to Type C is probable, but again, promulgated standards will result in a delay of the next generation of connector, so Apple will deliver an iPhone with USB Type C at the last possible moment.

    Personally, I wish that Apple would propose a next generation standard, Type D, based on the Lightning connector, and evolved from USB 4 specs. Not going to happen because USB.ORG isn't actually interested in pushing another connector this decade.
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