Apple pushes back on India's demand to support GPS rival in 2023 iPhones

AppleInsiderAppleInsider
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in iPhone
India wants Apple and other major smartphone producers to adopt its own satellite-based geolocation system in the iPhone and other devices, with the government intending to force vendors into supporting NavIC in hardware sold in the country from 2023.




The iPhone 14 has extensive support for navigation around the world, including GPS, GLONASS, Galileo, QZSS, and BeiDou. If India's government gets its way, another will be added to the list.

The government wants to increase the usage of NavIC, India's rival to GPS, which is being minimally used. While operational since 2018, it has been mandated for use in trackers used by public vehicles, but little else.

In documents seen by Reuters, the government plans to make smartphone producers add support to NavIC, for mobile devices sold in India from January 2023.

Apple, as well as Xiaomi and Samsung, have reportedly met with the government in August and September. The manufacturers are not keen on the change, due to the potential high research and production costs, as well as the regulatory testing associated with the change.

The change in support could also impact the launch of upcoming smartphones, pushing back release dates to stay in compliance.

In minutes from one meeting, Samsung's India lead Binu George expressed concern over the cost of new chipsets and other components. George also worried that later launches could be impacted, proposing it could affect models already being prepared for launch in 2024.

Smartphone producers have called for the government to push back the timing of compliance until 2025, to give them all a chance to implement the changes. A senior government official told the report a final decision will arrive within days.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 18
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Why? Because if the government owns the GPS they can track your whereabouts much more easily.
    edited September 2022
  • Reply 2 of 18
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 1,125member
    lkrupp said:
    Why? Because if the government owns the GPS they can track your whereabouts much more easily.
    GPS doesn't work that way - the satellites transmit their own time/location signals for the GPS receiver to work with. There is no signal sent the other way.

    A more likely reason: they need to justify the expenditure on NavIC "which is being minimally used".
    dewmemike1davendk49thtOferanantksundaramFileMakerFellerStrangeDayselijahg
  • Reply 3 of 18
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,295member
    India seems more problematic than other countries in working with manufacturers…intrusive, meddlesome and way too bureaucratic.
    jas99netroxradarthekatviclauyycwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 18
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,404member
    badmonk said:
    India seems more problematic than other countries in working with manufacturers…intrusive, meddlesome and way too bureaucratic.
    "Intrusive, meddlesome and way too bureaucratic" is an apt description of the Indian government.

    But much more so than, say, China (e.g., privacy), Brazil (all manner of issues), or the EU (e.g., dongles, intrusive taxes) in their own ways? No.

    But if the worry is that the volumes sold there do not (yet) justify that expense, I would tend to agree, but that's a different argument.
    FileMakerFellerracerhomie3scstrrfwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 18
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,166member
    badmonk said:
    India seems more problematic than other countries in working with manufacturers…intrusive, meddlesome and way too bureaucratic.
    It doesn’t matter the political or economic philosophy underpinning the organisation of government, it is the size. Let government do too. Many things, hand over too much responsibility to government, and you end up with all sorts of boondoggles, ear marking and overt oppression, even down to consumer choices, all designed to line the pockets of the political class and their friends.
    let government  be responsible for too much, and you get Big Brother.
    wg45678watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 18
    FileMakerFellerFileMakerFeller Posts: 1,546member
    entropys said:
    badmonk said:
    India seems more problematic than other countries in working with manufacturers…intrusive, meddlesome and way too bureaucratic.
    It doesn’t matter the political or economic philosophy underpinning the organisation of government, it is the size. Let government do too. Many things, hand over too much responsibility to government, and you end up with all sorts of boondoggles, ear marking and overt oppression, even down to consumer choices, all designed to line the pockets of the political class and their friends.
    let government  be responsible for too much, and you get Big Brother.
    Let government be responsible for too little and you get incidents like the Union Carbide disaster in the 1980s, or this more recent one. It is a difficult and never-ending process to find the right balance. My own preference is to follow the path that leads to increased safety.
    9secondkox2scstrrfthtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 18
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,858member
    India won’t work, Apple is however on it’s way to regional iPhones….Like it or not.
    edited September 2022
  • Reply 8 of 18
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,717member
    Yeah… no. This is apples product. Not India government issue. 

    aople doesn’t tarnish their brand and product because another big brother says so. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 18
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,717member
    entropys said:
    badmonk said:
    India seems more problematic than other countries in working with manufacturers…intrusive, meddlesome and way too bureaucratic.
    It doesn’t matter the political or economic philosophy underpinning the organisation of government, it is the size. Let government do too. Many things, hand over too much responsibility to government, and you end up with all sorts of boondoggles, ear marking and overt oppression, even down to consumer choices, all designed to line the pockets of the political class and their friends.
    let government  be responsible for too much, and you get Big Brother.
    Let government be responsible for too little and you get incidents like the Union Carbide disaster in the 1980s, or this more recent one. It is a difficult and never-ending process to find the right balance. My own preference is to follow the path that leads to increased safety.
    Let government have you much power and you end up with nazi Germany. Ussr Russia. Current China. Or heck, the current USA nosedive. 

    The best safety measure is freedom and small government. 

    Keep law and order and prevent chaos. Stop creating new laws to make government more powerful and Let the people choose  the rest. 
    edited September 2022 watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 18
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,879member
    lkrupp said:
    Why? Because if the government owns the GPS they can track your whereabouts much more easily.
    Not if you keep that tinfoil on nice & tight. 
    viclauyycscstrrfbonobob
  • Reply 11 of 18
    CalamanderCalamander Posts: 86member
    JP234 said:
    This will come down to which party needs the other more. Pretty sure Apple wins this one.
    Government always wins, unless it's a very small, unimportant nation. 

    Apple will do what the government demands. 1.3Bn customers are at stake! 

    They're just negotiating at this stage. 
    JP234watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 18
    CalamanderCalamander Posts: 86member
    StrangeDays said:
    lkrupp said:
    Why? Because if the government owns the GPS they can track your whereabouts much more easily.
    Not if you keep that tinfoil on nice & tight. 
    Both these comments are strange.

    Governments always know where you are through the cell towers. That's how cell phones work, and if you want to use a cell phone, the network must be able to track you, so they know where you are and can route data / calls to you. It's built into the technology. 

    Since government has full access to that data they always know where you are as long as your phone is on. 

    Comment 1 is strange because the government doesn't need GPS to track you. They're already tracking you. 

    Comment 2 is strange because the fact that they track you is not a theory, it's how cell phone work. 

    Which government branch can access the tracking data at any given time is another matter - but they are tracking ya.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 18
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,319member
    For a tech coverage site I find it odd you don’t dedicate a line maybe even a paragraph to the actual difference between this tech system and the one’s already supported. 

    Short answer needs additional band L5 to be covered for positioning system which already exists is some chipsets. Snapdragon mostly.

    applguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 18
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,858member
    Calamander said:
    JP234 said:
    This will come down to which party needs the other more. Pretty sure Apple wins this one.
    Government always wins, unless it's a very small, unimportant nation. 

    Apple will do what the government demands. 1.3Bn customers are at stake! 

    They're just negotiating at this stage. 
    At most 150 million people total.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 18
    muthuk_vanalingammuthuk_vanalingam Posts: 1,333member
    danox said:
    Calamander said:
    JP234 said:
    This will come down to which party needs the other more. Pretty sure Apple wins this one.
    Government always wins, unless it's a very small, unimportant nation. 

    Apple will do what the government demands. 1.3Bn customers are at stake! 

    They're just negotiating at this stage. 
    At most 150 million people total.
    You have added one zero extra in your estimates. At most 15 million user base (not annual sales, overall user base). With average replacement cycle of 3 years, 5 million sales per year max. it will take at least a decade for Apple to take the demands from Indian government seriously.
  • Reply 16 of 18
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,166member
    entropys said:
    badmonk said:
    India seems more problematic than other countries in working with manufacturers…intrusive, meddlesome and way too bureaucratic.
    It doesn’t matter the political or economic philosophy underpinning the organisation of government, it is the size. Let government do too. Many things, hand over too much responsibility to government, and you end up with all sorts of boondoggles, ear marking and overt oppression, even down to consumer choices, all designed to line the pockets of the political class and their friends.
    let government  be responsible for too much, and you get Big Brother.
    Let government be responsible for too little and you get incidents like the Union Carbide disaster in the 1980s, or this more recent one. It is a difficult and never-ending process to find the right balance. My own preference is to follow the path that leads to increased safety.
    Actually that incident was under a big government that extended into the means of production.  Until recent times India was quite socialist in its approach with fixed pricing of many markets etc etc. particularly agriculture and retail prices. And of course, the worst polluting factories last century were all Soviet bloc, and these days China.  All with very large government sectors in full,control of the means of production.


    Regardless , there is a big difference between government getting into bed with corporations and letting its interests and corruption influence how things are done, if which India is a rolled gold example, and proper regulation of a free market.  It is no accident things are getting better in India, even for the environment, as the dead hand of government has been lifted.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 18
    verne araseverne arase Posts: 460member
    I think Apple should manufacture Indian market phones in India, and Chinese market phones in China - but for global production should manufacture in some non-BRICS country.

    These countries are just too wacky and make too many self-supporting demands.
    watto_cobra
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