Apple could lose all App Store revenue in EU and only take 1% hit

Posted:
in General Discussion
Side-loading and alternative app stores won't affect Apple's bottom line by much, and in fact, could improve its stock thanks to regulatory backoff -- at least according to Morgan Stanley.

Apple's App Store move might be just what it needs
Apple's App Store move might be just what it needs


Apple is allegedly planning on allowing third-party app stores and side-loading to comply with European Union law by 2024. The changes could only affect users in the EU, but would be a major shift in Apple's policy.

According to a note from Morgan Stanley seen by AppleInsider, the investing firm doesn't believe Apple's changes to the App Store will have a material effect on services revenue. Even in the worst-case scenario, Apple would only lose 2% of its total revenue globally in FY24.

Basically, Morgan Stanley estimates that if Apple lost all of its App Store revenue from the EU, the company would take a 4% hit to services revenue and a 1% hit to total revenue in FY24. If Apple allowed side-loading and alternative app stores globally, it could result in a 9% hit in services revenue and a 2% hit to total revenue in FY24.

These scenarios are based on a worse-case and highly unlikely set of events. This would require around 30% of iPhone owners to abandon the Apple App Store.

This is seen as unlikely, thanks to survey work conducted by Morgan Stanley. Less than 30% of participants in the survey indicated they would be extremely likely to purchase an app directly from a developer's website versus the App Store. Even then, users would want the app to be priced up to 35% less to make the transaction worthwhile.

Survey data from Morgan Stanley
Survey data from Morgan Stanley


Customers indicated that they do not want their payment information spread to too many places on the internet. Apple's App Store provides a centralized platform to access apps, pay for digital content, and use services with a single payment platform.

Apple seemingly has two choices to make, and it has chosen the lesser of two evils. It could allow side-loading and alternative app stores, or be forced by regulators to lower App Store commissions to reduce cost burden on developers.

Regulators would likely back off Apple and reduce antitrust pressure by giving developers the option to go to alternative app stores. However, customers would be unlikely to follow those developers, so apps would likely remain on the official Apple App Store.

Morgan Stanley has data that suggests only about 1% of Android users take advantage of alternate app stores and side-loading. The cost of doing business outside of the Apple App Store would fall on developers, which are primarily small businesses. These issues would compound into a high-risk, low-reward business model that developers would avoid.

Apple hasn't released any official statement about how it intends to handle third-party app stores or side-loading. The EU law gives businesses roughly until the end of 2023 to comply, so expect more information from Apple no later than WWDC in June.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 19
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,302member
    This makes sense, I suspect in the end, only hardcore gamers will sideload and most iOS users will stay the course with the convenience and ease of the AppStore.  

    The ease of ending subscriptions in the AppStore is first rate.  This is especially true for anyone who has the experience of trying to cancel AOL, telecom services, television cable service etc etc.  I suspect most gamers have yet to be subjected to #adulting & so have no experience of these things. 

    Almost all the fraud I have had to deal with online has stemmed from small website purchases, etc etc.

    It would take a lot for me to sideload but maybe Europeans are more trustworthy of small business.
    watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 2 of 19
    So Apple could close the App Store in the the EU and not loose much? But developers would lose BIG. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 19
    The App Store works great for 90% of developers and users. I don't think you would see a mass exodus. Multi-platform support for non-Apple platforms is probably the most compelling reason for third party stores. For most of the apps that leave, we were probably already going to their website to buy a subscription, audio book, etc.... so no change in revenue for Apple. I doubt we will see much in alternative app stores. They need to be really entrenched or people will worry they will lose their purchases when it goes under and compelling enough to get people to go out of their way. Instead we will probably see a handful of apps that have always struggled with App Store rules move to side-load or provide a side-load option as long as it is easy for them install and update from a website. Similarly, I don't really see casual gamers leaving the App Store where a lot of Apple's App Store revenue comes from unless Nintendo enters the game. Even if the heavyweight, Steam, enters the space they likely only pull over hardcore gamers.

    Some are wondering about the distinction between allowing App Stores _or_ allowing side-loading. I really don't see the difference. Side-loading is just an app-store for one app. What isn't clear is if there will be some sort of app review or royalties applied... If there is a loophole that requires essentially 30% outside the store, I'm sure EU would just adjust the regulation since that probably goes against the spirit of it. Apple could require non-essential SDKs to require royalties outside the App Store. For example, RealityKit isn't essential since anyone could re-implement it with the lower level Metal SDK. 

    The related open messaging regulation is very strange. It is requiring a level of interoperation that seems impossible to implement. I think the only way to do this would be for Apple to open up part of the transport, but require E2EE handoff to happen with an App Clip. The App Clip could securely store the encryption secret in the Keychain and facilitate video and audio calls with that service. In other words, Apple would never give any other service its E2EE secrets, instead the other service would need to give their E2EE secrets to your device without Apple being involved through the App Clip.
    edited December 2022 darkvaderwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 19
    croprcropr Posts: 1,128member
    Being an app developer myself, I might share  what I will do when 3rd party app store and payment engines will become available for iOS apps. I don't develop games, only business related apps linked to a cloud service.  My apps are all available on iOS, Android and the Web (for PC and Mac)
    1.  I will move all my apps to an app store that gives me much better marketing.    From a developer point of view the marketing of the Apple App Store sucks.   I did a survey among my customers and none of them have discovered my apps in the App store.     This is the main reason to move away from the Apple App Store.  In the first few years of the App Store the marketing was OK, but now there are so many apps on the App Store, that I have to provide my own marketing.
    2. My ideal app store should not impose business restrictions as the Apple App store does currently:  it should allow me to give discounts to my clients who buy multiple apps from me, it should let me distribute vouchers, it should allow special "launch offers", it should allow to have another main currency (e.g. the Euro) so that when the exchange rate changes the cost in Euro does not change, but the cost in $ does.
    3. My ideal app store should distribute iOS and Android versions of my apps, and should allow me to link the web version of my app.  I basically don't care which version of my app is downloaded.
    4. For payments I would use Ingenico, a well respected payment service provider, that I am currently using for the web version of my apps (I never had any fraud issue with Ingenico).   As such I will have 1 single payment service provider for all my apps on all devices..  Operationally this will lower the cost of my accounting and my help desk.
    I might assume that Apple after a while might react when more and more app stores becoming available.  Especially on point 2 Apple might move a bit to become more developer friendly.
     
    InspiredCodewilliamlondoniqatedomuthuk_vanalingamdarkvader
  • Reply 5 of 19
    neillwd said:
    So Apple could close the App Store in the the EU and not loose much? But developers would lose BIG. 

    What it says is that they would not lose much revenue if apps were available elsewhere. If no apps were available they would lose a lot of phone and iPad sales. 

    muthuk_vanalingamdarkvaderwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 19
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,250member
    neillwd said:
    So Apple could close the App Store in the the EU and not loose much? But developers would lose BIG. 
    That's not the claim. Of course no Appstore there whatsoever would have a financial impact. But just like with Google Play and Android users only a tiny percentage of iPhone owners would go elsewhere for their apps as long as the Appstore is available. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 7 of 19
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,824member
    cropr said:
    Being an app developer myself, I might share  what I will do when 3rd party app store and payment engines will become available for iOS apps. I don't develop games, only business related apps linked to a cloud service.  My apps are all available on iOS, Android and the Web (for PC and Mac)
    1.  I will move all my apps to an app store that gives me much better marketing.    From a developer point of view the marketing of the Apple App Store sucks.   I did a survey among my customers and none of them have discovered my apps in the App store.     This is the main reason to move away from the Apple App Store.  In the first few years of the App Store the marketing was OK, but now there are so many apps on the App Store, that I have to provide my own marketing.
    2. My ideal app store should not impose business restrictions as the Apple App store does currently:  it should allow me to give discounts to my clients who buy multiple apps from me, it should let me distribute vouchers, it should allow special "launch offers", it should allow to have another main currency (e.g. the Euro) so that when the exchange rate changes the cost in Euro does not change, but the cost in $ does.
    3. My ideal app store should distribute iOS and Android versions of my apps, and should allow me to link the web version of my app.  I basically don't care which version of my app is downloaded.
    4. For payments I would use Ingenico, a well respected payment service provider, that I am currently using for the web version of my apps (I never had any fraud issue with Ingenico).   As such I will have 1 single payment service provider for all my apps on all devices..  Operationally this will lower the cost of my accounting and my help desk.
    I might assume that Apple after a while might react when more and more app stores becoming available.  Especially on point 2 Apple might move a bit to become more developer friendly.
     
    Such interesting points. Thanks for the opportunity to look into the thinking of a developer. What is your take on App Store security (in respect of potential third party stores)?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 19
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,062member
    gatorguy said:
    neillwd said:
    So Apple could close the App Store in the the EU and not loose much? But developers would lose BIG. 
    That's not the claim. Of course no Appstore there whatsoever would have a financial impact. But just like with Google Play and Android users only a tiny percentage of iPhone owners would go elsewhere for their apps as long as the Appstore is available. 
    No. That is the claim. 

    >"Basically, Morgan Stanley estimates that if Apple lost all of its App Store revenue from the EU, the company would take a 4% hit to services revenue and a 1% hit to total revenue in FY24"<

    Closing down the Apple App Store in the EU has the same effect as losing all of it's App Store revenue from the EU. They are not saying that no apps will be available on iOS in the EU. Just that none of the apps available will be from the Apple App Store. Now 1% of total revenue is not chump change, it's $4B, but it's still only 1% of Apple total revenue. Apple will lose much more revenue than that, from the shortage of iPhones this quarter. And there have been recent quarters where it's been reported that App Store revenue have grown by double digits. 

    And that's sounds about right when using napkin math, Apple have never revealed their App Store revenue or broken down their Service revenue. For sure, they are only counting their commission as revenue and not the total price of the app, subscription or IAP. So if App Store revenue is about 25 to 30% of Apple total Service revenue (as rumored), and the EU represent about 15% of App Store revenue, (about the same as their iPhone market share, iPhone marketshare in all of Europe is 23%.The UK is the largest iPhone market in Europe and no longer part of the EU.), then closing down the App Store in the EU will result in about a 4% hit to total Service revenue. (15% of 27.5% (averaging  25 + 30%)) And because we know that total Service revenue is about 20% of Apple total revenue, a 4% hit to Service revenue represent a 1% hit to Apple total revenue.  
    edited December 2022
  • Reply 9 of 19
    cropr said:
    Being an app developer myself, I might share  what I will do when 3rd party app store and payment engines will become available for iOS apps. I don't develop games, only business related apps linked to a cloud service.  My apps are all available on iOS, Android and the Web (for PC and Mac)
    1.  I will move all my apps to an app store that gives me much better marketing.    From a developer point of view the marketing of the Apple App Store sucks.   I did a survey among my customers and none of them have discovered my apps in the pApp store.     This is the main reason to move away from the Apple App Store.  In the first few years of the App Store the marketing was OK, but now there are so many apps on the App Store, that I have to provide my own marketing.
    2. My ideal app store should not impose business restrictions as the Apple App store does currently:  it should allow me to give discounts to my clients who buy multiple apps from me, it should let me distribute vouchers, it should allow special "launch offers", it should allow to have another main currency (e.g. the Euro) so that when the exchange rate changes the cost in Euro does not change, but the cost in $ does.
    3. My ideal app store should distribute iOS and Android versions of my apps, and should allow me to link the web version of my app.  I basically don't care which version of my app is downloaded.
    4. For payments I would use Ingenico, a well respected payment service provider, that I am currently using for the web version of my apps (I never had any fraud issue with Ingenico).   As such I will have 1 single payment service provider for all my apps on all devices..  Operationally this will lower the cost of my accounting and my help desk.
    I might assume that Apple after a while might react when more and more app stores becoming available.  Especially on point 2 Apple might move a bit to become more developer friendly.
     
    I will buying from Apple Store only and not from ideal app stores as you suggest. You don’t offer enough to bother buying from your store. I am not interested in having to do evaluations of the payment gateway, the privacy safeguards and the security of my information of third part app stores. There’s plenty of fish in the Apple App Store. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 19
    croprcropr Posts: 1,128member
    iqatedo said:
    cropr said:
    Being an app developer myself, I might share  what I will do when 3rd party app store and payment engines will become available for iOS apps. I don't develop games, only business related apps linked to a cloud service.  My apps are all available on iOS, Android and the Web (for PC and Mac)
    1.  I will move all my apps to an app store that gives me much better marketing.    From a developer point of view the marketing of the Apple App Store sucks.   I did a survey among my customers and none of them have discovered my apps in the App store.     This is the main reason to move away from the Apple App Store.  In the first few years of the App Store the marketing was OK, but now there are so many apps on the App Store, that I have to provide my own marketing.
    2. My ideal app store should not impose business restrictions as the Apple App store does currently:  it should allow me to give discounts to my clients who buy multiple apps from me, it should let me distribute vouchers, it should allow special "launch offers", it should allow to have another main currency (e.g. the Euro) so that when the exchange rate changes the cost in Euro does not change, but the cost in $ does.
    3. My ideal app store should distribute iOS and Android versions of my apps, and should allow me to link the web version of my app.  I basically don't care which version of my app is downloaded.
    4. For payments I would use Ingenico, a well respected payment service provider, that I am currently using for the web version of my apps (I never had any fraud issue with Ingenico).   As such I will have 1 single payment service provider for all my apps on all devices..  Operationally this will lower the cost of my accounting and my help desk.
    I might assume that Apple after a while might react when more and more app stores becoming available.  Especially on point 2 Apple might move a bit to become more developer friendly.
     
    Such interesting points. Thanks for the opportunity to look into the thinking of a developer. What is your take on App Store security (in respect of potential third party stores)?
    I assume that Apple will still want to sign an app before it is distributed on any app store.  As such on the iOS device there will be no change: only apps signed by Apple are allowed to be installed.  This means that Apple will still have an app approval process where some requirements should be met. 

    The requirements for an app approval for 3rd party stores should include all technical and security features as Apple has now, but the business restrictions should be gone.   I myself don't want to have lower technical and security requirements:  it would be easier to sell the app, if there is an Apple verification stamp on it.   One of my apps is an electronic voting system, where it is crucial that the customers trust the system. 

    So I don't mind that Apple would charge for the app approval service.  This could only be a fixed fee and no longer a percentage, as Apple should no longer have any business with the pricing. 

    It sounds logical that a 3rd party app store provider would also want to be sure that the apps it is distributing, are secure.  Only criminals want  to download from a dodgy app store. The marketing of Apple wants  us to believe that Apple is the only one who can provide well trusted and secure environment and that there will be a lot of insecure app stores: but that is fake news.
    muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondoniqatedo
  • Reply 11 of 19
    croprcropr Posts: 1,128member
    Hedware said:
    cropr said:
    Being an app developer myself, I might share  what I will do when 3rd party app store and payment engines will become available for iOS apps. I don't develop games, only business related apps linked to a cloud service.  My apps are all available on iOS, Android and the Web (for PC and Mac)
    1.  I will move all my apps to an app store that gives me much better marketing.    From a developer point of view the marketing of the Apple App Store sucks.   I did a survey among my customers and none of them have discovered my apps in the pApp store.     This is the main reason to move away from the Apple App Store.  In the first few years of the App Store the marketing was OK, but now there are so many apps on the App Store, that I have to provide my own marketing.
    2. My ideal app store should not impose business restrictions as the Apple App store does currently:  it should allow me to give discounts to my clients who buy multiple apps from me, it should let me distribute vouchers, it should allow special "launch offers", it should allow to have another main currency (e.g. the Euro) so that when the exchange rate changes the cost in Euro does not change, but the cost in $ does.
    3. My ideal app store should distribute iOS and Android versions of my apps, and should allow me to link the web version of my app.  I basically don't care which version of my app is downloaded.
    4. For payments I would use Ingenico, a well respected payment service provider, that I am currently using for the web version of my apps (I never had any fraud issue with Ingenico).   As such I will have 1 single payment service provider for all my apps on all devices..  Operationally this will lower the cost of my accounting and my help desk.
    I might assume that Apple after a while might react when more and more app stores becoming available.  Especially on point 2 Apple might move a bit to become more developer friendly.
     
    I will buying from Apple Store only and not from ideal app stores as you suggest. You don’t offer enough to bother buying from your store. I am not interested in having to do evaluations of the payment gateway, the privacy safeguards and the security of my information of third part app stores. There’s plenty of fish in the Apple App Store. 

    If you only buy from the Apple App Store, that is fine with me. 

    My customers tell me a different story.   I have developed an e-voting app for general assemblies of large organizations.  In this case the flow is:  I am convincing the board of the organization to use my system;  the system, payment included, is set up for 1 general assembly;  the members of the organization are invited; and the members download the iOS app, the Android app or use the web version.  So as a user of the e-voting app you do not decide which app store or payment system is being used. It is sufficient that I convince the board of the organization.    And for the board, there is only 1 major concern: the trust in the election results.
    muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondondarkvader
  • Reply 12 of 19
    App approval on the Apple Store is free I believe so if Apple charge to have an app approved to side load on another App Store would this be a loop hole to keep collecting money?
    Charge per download on approved apps not downloaded from the App Store. 


  • Reply 13 of 19
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,396member
    I wouldn’t make any assumptions about anything until we see exactly how Apple implements alternative app stores on their proprietary platform. My preference would be to by-default sandbox side loaded apps so they cannot access any core services that have security or privacy implications. I suspect they’ll take an approach similar to macOS where users will have to explicitly grant side-loaded apps access to built-in operating system features that have security and privacy implications. This should not be a big deal since it’s worked out pretty well for macOS, assuming no hurdles based on the fact that the total number of available apps on iOS and iPadOS dwarfs the total number of apps available on macOS.

    In my opinion I don’t think that having other ways to get apps on to devices that are now supported by the App Store is going to make a difference for anyone other than a very tiny fraction of developers. It really comes down to what those folks who are complaining about Apple’s App Store expect from an alternative “app store” other than direct download from a developer’s own e-commerce functionality. I appreciate @Cropr’s “wish list for the perfect app store“ but who is providing such a store today? Who is going to build such a store tomorrow with lower commissions, fewer restrictions, and greater app discovery capabilities than what Apple currently charges? 

    I’m not discounting the viability of third party app stores because the same basic model is already widespread for products sold through retail channels. But somebody has to have the financial incentive to build them and the details of how to do that in a highly profitable way are still TBD. Yes, discovery of apps could be greatly improved if app stores were more narrowly defined and specialized, like a game store, online gambling store, photography store, personal health management store, etc. I have no problem with this model and actually see it as a normal evolution for the app market in general. The early days of automobiles saw far greater numbers of manufacturers than what we have today. The ones that survived were the ones that could sustain sales and profitability over time. The ones that couldn’t went away or were consolidated into the ones that survived. The App Store is really no different. Some apps don’t deserve to survive.

    We may eventually see such specialization emerge, but in the meantime I think the primary beneficiaries of opening up Apple’s proprietary devices to alternative app loading and payment models will be the same deep pocketed and obnoxious self promoters who have convinced public officials through various means that the company’s personal problems are actually global problems that need to be solved through heavy-handed legal directives. The rest of the vast developer community will have to deal with normal evolution and “survival of the fittest” laws of customer driven natural selection. Having more app stores to sell their wares through isn’t going to make a difference in the end if their apps don’t make the cut with buyers. 
     
    foregoneconclusionwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 19
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,250member
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    neillwd said:
    So Apple could close the App Store in the the EU and not loose much? But developers would lose BIG. 
    That's not the claim. Of course no Appstore there whatsoever would have a financial impact. But just like with Google Play and Android users only a tiny percentage of iPhone owners would go elsewhere for their apps as long as the Appstore is available. 
    No. That is the claim.
    Thanks. So I've re-read it and you're probably correct. After thinking about it I remember that the majority of Apple's app revenues come from China, with the US a distant 2nd. No idea where the EU is on the list, but it would still seem it would be more than 4%. No matter really as for the most part you're probably correct and I was mistaken.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 15 of 19
    darkvaderdarkvader Posts: 1,146member
    toganl said:
    App approval on the Apple Store is free I believe so if Apple charge to have an app approved to side load on another App Store would this be a loop hole to keep collecting money?
    Charge per download on approved apps not downloaded from the App Store.
    Why would Apple be entitled to ANY revenue on apps downloaded outside of the Apple app store?  Why would Apple have any part of "approving" apps downloaded directly from the developer or a site like GitHub?

    Apple doesn't need to sign apps downloaded from sources other than Apple.  Just like on the Mac the developer can sign the app or not sign the app and let the user tap though an extra warning or go through an extra step equivalent to control-clicking and picking Open on the Mac for unsigned apps.

    No need whatsoever for Apple to have any involvement or control.

    Remember, it's NOT Apple's iPhone, it's YOUR iPhone.
  • Reply 16 of 19
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Just take a look at the real world of Android. There is almost NO side-loading going on, almost no third party app stores of any significance. Most Android users stick to the the Google Play store. Most of the crap you hear is from the usual asshats that stir the pot. The same thing will happen if this comes to pass. The vast majority of iOS users will stick to the App Store, as will developers. They know which side their bread is buttered on. The asshat cadre will start their stores and quickly find out what real users want, and real users want the convenience and ease of use of the App Store. 
    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 19
    lkrupp said:
    Just take a look at the real world of Android. There is almost NO side-loading going on, almost no third party app stores of any significance. Most Android users stick to the the Google Play store. Most of the crap you hear is from the usual asshats that stir the pot. The same thing will happen if this comes to pass. The vast majority of iOS users will stick to the App Store, as will developers. They know which side their bread is buttered on. The asshat cadre will start their stores and quickly find out what real users want, and real users want the convenience and ease of use of the App Store. 
    For a change, I agree completely with you on this post. For many doomsday predictors (of virus/malware infecting iPhones) once iOS is opened up, the reality is entirely different. We have a real world example to draw the inferences, but somehow many of them refusing to see what is already happening in the Android world.
  • Reply 18 of 19
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,250member
    lkrupp said:
    Just take a look at the real world of Android. There is almost NO side-loading going on, almost no third party app stores of any significance. Most Android users stick to the the Google Play store. Most of the crap you hear is from the usual asshats that stir the pot. The same thing will happen if this comes to pass. The vast majority of iOS users will stick to the App Store, as will developers. They know which side their bread is buttered on. The asshat cadre will start their stores and quickly find out what real users want, and real users want the convenience and ease of use of the App Store. 
    For a change, I agree completely with you on this post. For many doomsday predictors (of virus/malware infecting iPhones) once iOS is opened up, the reality is entirely different. We have a real world example to draw the inferences, but somehow many of them refusing to see what is already happening in the Android world.
    I agree with him too. (!!)
    muthuk_vanalingam
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