Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.
But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed. The larger the display, the harder that becomes. If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier. I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here. I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful. At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.
you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop? The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?
I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around.
Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone.
As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability.
Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better.
My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements.
My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down.
On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task. Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task. I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens.
We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.
Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.
I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.
A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear.
Backpack?
But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop. But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video? Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store? I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case. Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.
I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff. If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
But youre not taking it in to use it. That wasn’t the point. The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.
But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed. The larger the display, the harder that becomes. If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier. I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here. I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful. At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.
you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop? The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?
I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around.
Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone.
As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability.
Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better.
My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements.
My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down.
On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task. Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task. I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens.
We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.
Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.
I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.
A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear.
Backpack?
But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop. But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video? Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store? I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case. Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.
I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff. If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
But youre not taking it in to use it. That wasn’t the point. The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
Different tasks for different devices for better usability. When you move to one traditional device, you end up making usability sacrifices.
You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging.
If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight.
Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk.
As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies.
Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.
But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed. The larger the display, the harder that becomes. If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier. I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here. I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful. At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.
you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop? The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?
I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around.
Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone.
As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability.
Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better.
My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements.
My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down.
On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task. Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task. I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens.
We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.
Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.
I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.
A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear.
Backpack?
But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop. But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video? Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store? I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case. Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.
I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff. If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
But youre not taking it in to use it. That wasn’t the point. The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
Different tasks for different devices for better usability. When you move to one traditional device, you end up making usability sacrifices.
You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging.
If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight.
Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk.
As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies.
Well that's straight up BS, but I wouldn't expect anything less from you.
For example, the iPhone 14 is 7.80mm thick while the Samsung Galaxy Fold 4 is 15.80mm thick. A little over doublet thickness as a smartphone despite you claiming "without the bulk".
Additionally, in tablet mode you get a mediocre tablet that's not really much bigger to warrant either the expense or having to use a considerably more bulky smartphone when the the iPhone mini size is the least popular size. The 10–11" range is the most popular with the 12–13" range following, with the iPad mini bring up the rear.
Even if the iPad mini was the most popular size, a double-size iPhone display wouldn't come close to the screen area. It's would all be a shitty iPhone and shitty iPad experience, just as all of these folding devices have been to date.
Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk.
That’s just it though: I don’t see any advantage. I see only poor compromises. I see another mechanical failure point (wear and tear, damage point when dropped, ingress point). I see a thicker phone in my pocket or in my hand. I see a device that requires 2 hands when fully open. All for the “convenience” of “just in case I need a bigger screen”.
Sometimes, KISS is the right thing to do, no matter how much it’s wanted. If I think I need a bigger screen, I plan and think ahead: do I need to tote my laptop with me in a backpack, or can it wait till I get home. Is it worth the inconvenience of carrying around a bag, or can I make do on the small screen of my phone?
At no point have I wished for a bigger screen on my phone.
Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.
But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed. The larger the display, the harder that becomes. If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier. I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here. I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful. At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.
you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop? The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?
I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around.
Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone.
As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability.
Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better.
My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements.
My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down.
On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task. Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task. I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens.
We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.
Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.
I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.
A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear.
Backpack?
But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop. But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video? Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store? I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case. Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.
I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff. If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
But youre not taking it in to use it. That wasn’t the point. The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
Different tasks for different devices for better usability. When you move to one traditional device, you end up making usability sacrifices.
You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging.
If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight.
Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk.
As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies.
Well that's straight up BS, but I wouldn't expect anything less from you.
For example, the iPhone 14 is 7.80mm thick while the Samsung Galaxy Fold 4 is 15.80mm thick. A little over doublet thickness as a smartphone despite you claiming "without the bulk".
Additionally, in tablet mode you get a mediocre tablet that's not really much bigger to warrant either the expense or having to use a considerably more bulky smartphone when the the iPhone mini size is the least popular size. The 10–11" range is the most popular with the 12–13" range following, with the iPad mini bring up the rear.
Even if the iPad mini was the most popular size, a double-size iPhone display wouldn't come close to the screen area. It's would all be a shitty iPhone and shitty iPad experience, just as all of these folding devices have been to date.
Here's one recent survey...
You obviously haven't been following folding phones.
Some points.
Even at 15mm a folding phone beats the bulk of having both a phone and a tablet to carry around.
You probably cherry picked your example as the Samsung is just one of many.
The last Huawei was basically the same thickness as an iPhone in a case. Once 8n tablet mode it's thinner.
Last August, Xiaomi released what was then the world's thinnest folding phone.
Lots of reviewers say they would keep their review units if they could. Some buy them for themselves anyway.
If the experience was so shitty, do you think that that kind of user would buy them?
The experience is better because it is bigger. The whole point of a folding phone isn't that 'it folds'. The point is that you get a tablet mode that, without a tablet on hand along with your regular phone, is impossible.
It is better for the reasons I've already given and if Apple releases a folding phone they will be marketing exactly that.
Fragility? Have you see any 'fold gate' stories? Any mass breaking?
Forget folding phones for a second, what is the number one break point on a regular phone? The glass, right? Front and back. And no moving parts!
Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.
But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed. The larger the display, the harder that becomes. If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier. I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here. I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful. At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.
you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop? The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?
I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around.
Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone.
As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability.
Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better.
My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements.
My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down.
On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task. Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task. I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens.
We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.
Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.
I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.
A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear.
Backpack?
But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop. But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video? Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store? I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case. Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.
I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff. If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
But youre not taking it in to use it. That wasn’t the point. The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
Different tasks for different devices for better usability. When you move to one traditional device, you end up making usability sacrifices.
You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging.
If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight.
Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk.
As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies.
Well that's straight up BS, but I wouldn't expect anything less from you.
For example, the iPhone 14 is 7.80mm thick while the Samsung Galaxy Fold 4 is 15.80mm thick. A little over doublet thickness as a smartphone despite you claiming "without the bulk".
Additionally, in tablet mode you get a mediocre tablet that's not really much bigger to warrant either the expense or having to use a considerably more bulky smartphone when the the iPhone mini size is the least popular size. The 10–11" range is the most popular with the 12–13" range following, with the iPad mini bring up the rear.
Even if the iPad mini was the most popular size, a double-size iPhone display wouldn't come close to the screen area. It's would all be a shitty iPhone and shitty iPad experience, just as all of these folding devices have been to date.
Here's one recent survey...
You obviously haven't been following folding phones.
Some points.
Even at 15mm a folding phone beats the bulk of having both a phone and a tablet to carry around.
You probably cherry picked your example as the Samsung is just one of many.
The last Huawei was basically the same thickness as an iPhone in a case. Once 8n tablet mode it's thinner.
Last August, Xiaomi released what was then the world's thinnest folding phone.
Lots of reviewers say they would keep their review units if they could. Some buy them for themselves anyway.
If the experience was so shitty, do you think that that kind of user would buy them?
The experience is better because it is bigger. The whole point of a folding phone isn't that 'it folds'. The point is that you get a tablet mode that, without a tablet on hand along with your regular phone, is impossible.
It is better for the reasons I've already given and if Apple releases a folding phone they will be marketing exactly that.
Fragility? Have you see any 'fold gate' stories? Any mass breaking?
Forget folding phones for a second, what is the number one break point on a regular phone? The glass, right? Front and back. And no moving parts!
Yes, the hinge has moving parts. Get over it.
As usual, that's a lot of non sequitors and other argumentative fallacies, but I'll address one non sequitor you bring up as some glowing reason why a folding smartphone that becomes an extra small tablet are brilliant: the lack of "fold gate" in the media. Your implication is that the technology is excellent when in fact you can't begin to have significant device issues paired with mass outrage over a tech failure until that technology actually affect people en masse which is not going to happen with such weak sales.
Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.
But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed. The larger the display, the harder that becomes. If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier. I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here. I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful. At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.
you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop? The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?
I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around.
Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone.
As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability.
Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better.
My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements.
My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down.
On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task. Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task. I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens.
We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.
Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.
I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.
A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear.
Backpack?
But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop. But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video? Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store? I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case. Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.
I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff. If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
But youre not taking it in to use it. That wasn’t the point. The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
Different tasks for different devices for better usability. When you move to one traditional device, you end up making usability sacrifices.
You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging.
If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight.
Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk.
As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies.
Well that's straight up BS, but I wouldn't expect anything less from you.
For example, the iPhone 14 is 7.80mm thick while the Samsung Galaxy Fold 4 is 15.80mm thick. A little over doublet thickness as a smartphone despite you claiming "without the bulk".
Additionally, in tablet mode you get a mediocre tablet that's not really much bigger to warrant either the expense or having to use a considerably more bulky smartphone when the the iPhone mini size is the least popular size. The 10–11" range is the most popular with the 12–13" range following, with the iPad mini bring up the rear.
Even if the iPad mini was the most popular size, a double-size iPhone display wouldn't come close to the screen area. It's would all be a shitty iPhone and shitty iPad experience, just as all of these folding devices have been to date.
Here's one recent survey...
You obviously haven't been following folding phones.
Some points.
Even at 15mm a folding phone beats the bulk of having both a phone and a tablet to carry around.
You probably cherry picked your example as the Samsung is just one of many.
The last Huawei was basically the same thickness as an iPhone in a case. Once 8n tablet mode it's thinner.
Last August, Xiaomi released what was then the world's thinnest folding phone.
Lots of reviewers say they would keep their review units if they could. Some buy them for themselves anyway.
If the experience was so shitty, do you think that that kind of user would buy them?
The experience is better because it is bigger. The whole point of a folding phone isn't that 'it folds'. The point is that you get a tablet mode that, without a tablet on hand along with your regular phone, is impossible.
It is better for the reasons I've already given and if Apple releases a folding phone they will be marketing exactly that.
Fragility? Have you see any 'fold gate' stories? Any mass breaking?
Forget folding phones for a second, what is the number one break point on a regular phone? The glass, right? Front and back. And no moving parts!
Yes, the hinge has moving parts. Get over it.
As usual, that's a lot of non sequitors and other argumentative fallacies, but I'll address one non sequitor you bring up as some glowing reason why a folding smartphone that becomes an extra small tablet are brilliant: the lack of "fold gate" in the media. Your implication is that the technology is excellent when in fact you can't begin to have significant device issues paired with mass outrage over a tech failure until that technology actually affect people en masse which is not going to happen with such weak sales.
Nonsense. Any device that sells for over a $1,500 and fails precisely on the point for which you bought it, would be all over the news.
Just look at the Samsung review units, most of which failed due to people trying to pull off what they thought was a screen protector which had to be removed.
That story was impossible to miss.
If folding phones, the ones that have sold in millions so far, had had any kind of statistically significant failure rate, we would be well aware of it by now.
I didn't say the folding technology was 'excellent' but if you take a look around and see what people think, that adjective would not be a poor choice.
As I've said, my brother's entire family moved to folding phones and I have another brother with a Samsung Fold.
Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.
Ummmm.... foldables WERE mainstream, going back to at least my Motorola StarTac from almost 30 years ago and possibly earlier than that. Sure, folding screens on phones are relatively new, but the folding phone form factor is not... and the "candy bar" form factor ultimately won out. Look: Samsung has been in the folding screen phone business for five years now and it remains a tiny niche of sales. Apple is not in the business of serving tiny niches. Do I think a folding iPhone could add some much needed excitement during an iPhone event in September? Sure. But do I think it's a good business decision? No. It's too niche and doesn't offer a sufficient return on investment.
However... I do think folding screen tech could be really interesting applied to iPad, especially the 11" and 13" models, making for a far more compact form factor when traveling with these mobile devices.
Seems iPhone 17 Air is the preamble to iPhone 18 Fold. Any great folding phone will have to come from something thin and Apple is #1 on thin.
Not so sure it can be sold in the EU with the 2027 requirement that users can swap the battery without special tools. Either make a special thick version for EU, don't sell it at all, or do something unexpected. Going to be interesting!
Seems iPhone 17 Air is the preamble to iPhone 18 Fold. Any great folding phone will have to come from something thin and Apple is #1 on thin.
Not so sure it can be sold in the EU with the 2027 requirement that users can swap the battery without special tools. Either make a special thick version for EU, don't sell it at all, or do something unexpected. Going to be interesting!
I thought the EU battery requirement was to be able to be serviced with standard tools? So, all the existing Apple devices are ok except for the wearables and the speakers. And those wearables and speakers have waivers or don't need to meet the user replaceable battery requirement.
I have a pet theory about foldables that make them poor sellers, relative to say an iPhone mini or iPhone Plus, or an iPhone "Ultra". Devices using more square aspect ratios at about 7 to 9 inch diagonals are in an input zone of death. You can't enter text easily with it one handed nor two handed.
This display size is mostly used as reader devices like a Kindle or an iPad mini. When you need to write a message, enter text, it is just cumbersome. Can't thumb-type. Can't type like a full sized keyboard with 0.75" key spacing. Having to unfold it only makes it more cumbersome to type something, or even quickly look at something. Hence, virtually all of the foldables have an outer screen to serve the purpose of a traditional 5 to 6 inch class smartphone.
So, the essential upsell in a foldable is how much a buyer values using that 7 to 9 inch squarer display. If it is only for reading or watching video, the additional cost of a foldable device isn't worth the it for that.
Apple probably has been trying to figure this out for a long time, and I don't think there really is a solution. Folding a 11" iPad in half to make it pocketable or a 13" iPad in half to make it easier to carry, or a 20" display laptop in half to make it mobile, perhaps there is more value with that. But in the phone foldables, you have to wonder what is being gained for the tradeoffs being made.
I'd like to see Apple's take on a foldable phone simply to see whether they can overcome the preconceived notions of how it should work, how it folds, and what extra utility you get from having a phone that folds. As others have mentioned, if Apple does a foldable phone they'll have to decide whether the foldability provides better pocketability or more screen real estate, i.e., tablet like functionality. Doing both seems like a stretch unless they resort to some sort of origami design.
If they go down the tablet path maybe they can do something that has a kickstand and a projected-light keyboard and sensors so you can use it on a flat surface like a tablet with a keyboard.
Coming up with a super reliable hinge is a make or break critical requirement. If they did a flip version it would be cool to be able to open, close, and adjust the angle of the flip-up part using controls on the edge of the phone instead of using your fingers. That would allow for single handed operation. Just as long as there is no possibility of it opening while it's in your pocket, everything should be okay.
The main cost challenge I see with folding phones beyond the more difficult manufacturing and assembly is the need to provide additional display and control elements to be able to use the phone when it's folded. All that extra work and components will certainly drive up the cost.
I'd like to see Apple's take on a foldable phone simply to see whether they can overcome the preconceived notions of how it should work, how it folds, and what extra utility you get from having a phone that folds. As others have mentioned, if Apple does a foldable phone they'll have to decide whether the foldability provides better pocketability or more screen real estate, i.e., tablet like functionality. Doing both seems like a stretch unless they resort to some sort of origami design.
If they go down the tablet path maybe they can do something that has a kickstand and a projected-light keyboard and sensors so you can use it on a flat surface like a tablet with a keyboard.
Coming up with a super reliable hinge is a make or break critical requirement. If they did a flip version it would be cool to be able to open, close, and adjust the angle of the flip-up part using controls on the edge of the phone instead of using your fingers. That would allow for single handed operation. Just as long as there is no possibility of it opening while it's in your pocket, everything should be okay.
The main cost challenge I see with folding phones beyond the more difficult manufacturing and assembly is the need to provide additional display and control elements to be able to use the phone when it's folded. All that extra work and components will certainly drive up the cost.
If a foldable screen ever comes to market from Apple, it will be an iPad, not an iPhone. For many of the reasons stated upthread already, a foldable phone is a bundle of not-as-good-as-a-regular-iphone compromises, all in the interest of dubious use cases.
On the other hand a foldable iPad wouldn't require an additional screen on the outside of the folded device, and would be less prone to mechanical failure because it would be folded and unfolded only a fraction of the number of times as would a folding phone. People aren't generally compulsive about whipping out their iPad to check things every other minute. The iPad operating system would also require almost no new bloat to support a folding iPad, because the opened screen would be the same aspect ratio as other iPads, and the closed screen would just be off. A folding phone would necessitate that iOS support additional screen aspect ratios, as well as a separate screen on the outside, for when the phone is folded. (And if it doesn't have an outside screen, the hinge would be even more prone to failure, because even checking simple notifications would require more folding and unfolding.)
The use case for an iPad would also be an actual thing people might want: access to a truly large iPad screen that, folded in half, becomes easier to carry around in a coat pocket, purse or small messenger bag.
Comments
You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging.
If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight.
Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk.
As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies.
For example, the iPhone 14 is 7.80mm thick while the Samsung Galaxy Fold 4 is 15.80mm thick. A little over doublet thickness as a smartphone despite you claiming "without the bulk".
Additionally, in tablet mode you get a mediocre tablet that's not really much bigger to warrant either the expense or having to use a considerably more bulky smartphone when the the iPhone mini size is the least popular size. The 10–11" range is the most popular with the 12–13" range following, with the iPad mini bring up the rear.
Even if the iPad mini was the most popular size, a double-size iPhone display wouldn't come close to the screen area. It's would all be a shitty iPhone and shitty iPad experience, just as all of these folding devices have been to date.
Here's one recent survey...
At no point have I wished for a bigger screen on my phone.
Some points.
Even at 15mm a folding phone beats the bulk of having both a phone and a tablet to carry around.
You probably cherry picked your example as the Samsung is just one of many.
The last Huawei was basically the same thickness as an iPhone in a case. Once 8n tablet mode it's thinner.
Last August, Xiaomi released what was then the world's thinnest folding phone.
Lots of reviewers say they would keep their review units if they could. Some buy them for themselves anyway.
If the experience was so shitty, do you think that that kind of user would buy them?
The experience is better because it is bigger. The whole point of a folding phone isn't that 'it folds'. The point is that you get a tablet mode that, without a tablet on hand along with your regular phone, is impossible.
It is better for the reasons I've already given and if Apple releases a folding phone they will be marketing exactly that.
Fragility? Have you see any 'fold gate' stories? Any mass breaking?
Forget folding phones for a second, what is the number one break point on a regular phone? The glass, right? Front and back. And no moving parts!
Yes, the hinge has moving parts. Get over it.
Just look at the Samsung review units, most of which failed due to people trying to pull off what they thought was a screen protector which had to be removed.
That story was impossible to miss.
If folding phones, the ones that have sold in millions so far, had had any kind of statistically significant failure rate, we would be well aware of it by now.
I didn't say the folding technology was 'excellent' but if you take a look around and see what people think, that adjective would not be a poor choice.
As I've said, my brother's entire family moved to folding phones and I have another brother with a Samsung Fold.
They love them and have had zero issues.
However... I do think folding screen tech could be really interesting applied to iPad, especially the 11" and 13" models, making for a far more compact form factor when traveling with these mobile devices.
Not so sure it can be sold in the EU with the 2027 requirement that users can swap the battery without special tools. Either make a special thick version for EU, don't sell it at all, or do something unexpected. Going to be interesting!
I have a pet theory about foldables that make them poor sellers, relative to say an iPhone mini or iPhone Plus, or an iPhone "Ultra". Devices using more square aspect ratios at about 7 to 9 inch diagonals are in an input zone of death. You can't enter text easily with it one handed nor two handed.
This display size is mostly used as reader devices like a Kindle or an iPad mini. When you need to write a message, enter text, it is just cumbersome. Can't thumb-type. Can't type like a full sized keyboard with 0.75" key spacing. Having to unfold it only makes it more cumbersome to type something, or even quickly look at something. Hence, virtually all of the foldables have an outer screen to serve the purpose of a traditional 5 to 6 inch class smartphone.
So, the essential upsell in a foldable is how much a buyer values using that 7 to 9 inch squarer display. If it is only for reading or watching video, the additional cost of a foldable device isn't worth the it for that.
Apple probably has been trying to figure this out for a long time, and I don't think there really is a solution. Folding a 11" iPad in half to make it pocketable or a 13" iPad in half to make it easier to carry, or a 20" display laptop in half to make it mobile, perhaps there is more value with that. But in the phone foldables, you have to wonder what is being gained for the tradeoffs being made.
If they go down the tablet path maybe they can do something that has a kickstand and a projected-light keyboard and sensors so you can use it on a flat surface like a tablet with a keyboard.
Coming up with a super reliable hinge is a make or break critical requirement. If they did a flip version it would be cool to be able to open, close, and adjust the angle of the flip-up part using controls on the edge of the phone instead of using your fingers. That would allow for single handed operation. Just as long as there is no possibility of it opening while it's in your pocket, everything should be okay.
The main cost challenge I see with folding phones beyond the more difficult manufacturing and assembly is the need to provide additional display and control elements to be able to use the phone when it's folded. All that extra work and components will certainly drive up the cost.
On the other hand a foldable iPad wouldn't require an additional screen on the outside of the folded device, and would be less prone to mechanical failure because it would be folded and unfolded only a fraction of the number of times as would a folding phone. People aren't generally compulsive about whipping out their iPad to check things every other minute. The iPad operating system would also require almost no new bloat to support a folding iPad, because the opened screen would be the same aspect ratio as other iPads, and the closed screen would just be off. A folding phone would necessitate that iOS support additional screen aspect ratios, as well as a separate screen on the outside, for when the phone is folded. (And if it doesn't have an outside screen, the hinge would be even more prone to failure, because even checking simple notifications would require more folding and unfolding.)
The use case for an iPad would also be an actual thing people might want: access to a truly large iPad screen that, folded in half, becomes easier to carry around in a coat pocket, purse or small messenger bag.