Netflix's password sharing crackdown is coming to the US

Posted:
in General Discussion
Following its rollout around the world, Netflix's plan to stop people sharing their accounts is now due to start in the US before the end of July.

Netflix logo
Netflix logo


Netflix inadvertently revealed the details of its strict password policy in February 2023, when it said it had accidentally posted information intended for countries outside the US. Now in its quarterly earnings report, the company has announced its plans for the States, as well as given some details of how the policy has fared overseas.

"Paid sharing is another important initiative as widespread account sharing (100M+ households) undermines our ability to invest in and improve Netflix for our paying members, as well as build our business," said the company in a letter to shareholders. "We're pleased with the results of our Q1 launches in Canada, New Zealand, Spain and Portugal, strengthening our confidence that we have the right approach."

In that letter, Netflix reveals that it had at least contemplated launching the scheme in the US around February. Saying that "with each launch, we learn more about how best to roll out these changes," Netflix reported that it " could have launched broadly in late Q1, but we found enough improvement opportunities in these areas to shift a broad launch to Q2 to implement those changes."

The intention to launch then was enough that changing it "will shift some of the membership growth and revenue benefit from Q2 to Q3."

While the investor note and financial earnings don't specify the details of how Netflix's password sharing crackdown works, it has functioned broadly the same way in each country where it's been tried. Basically, anyone at a subscriber's physical address can continue using Netflix, but the paying subscriber will have to confirm every month that a user away from there was part of the household.

It's meant to mean that, for instance, someone going to college can still be counted as part of the paying household. But that monthly prompt to confirm should add some friction to sharing an account with anyone else.

Short-term revenue decline is likely

Netflix does expect that it will lose subscribers when the new policy comes into effect in the States, but believes that overall it's worth it.

"[As] we roll out paid sharing -- and as some borrowers stop watching either because they don't convert to extra members or full paying accounts -- near term engagement, as measured by third parties like Nielsen, will likely shrink modestly," says Netflix. "However, we believe the pattern will be similar to what we've seen in Latin America, with engagement growth resuming over time as we continue to improve our programming and borrowers sign-up for their own accounts."

"For example, in Canada, which we believe is a reliable predictor for the US," it continues, "our paid membership base is now larger than prior to the launch of paid sharing and revenue growth has accelerated and is now growing faster than in the US."

The long-expected move to cracking down on passwords is one part of Netflix's attempts to grow its revenue. Another key factor was the November 2022 introduction of a new ad-supported tier, giving users a lower-cost entry to the service.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 14
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,007member
    Once again, this would be easier to swallow if Netflix would simply decouple access to 4K UHD (tech that’s standard on all but the smallest new TVs) from multiple-stream subscriptions. 

    Currently 4K UHD is only available via the highest-priced Netflix subscription. That tier also includes capability to use four streams simultaneously on one account. It’s ridiculous that they charge extra for a standard feature. That ridiculous extra cost is more tolerable, however, if it means you can offer up one of those simultaneous streams that you didn’t need to your mother-in-law or your uncle Benny. 

    Coming back now to tell you that you still have to pay extra for a standard feature, but now you can’t actually use the extra streams you didn’t need in the first place is just a big F.U. to their customers.

    Maybe they should really add to their bottom line by charging a premium for color pictures. Color TV is also a former “enhanced feature” that now comes standard on all of the TVs currently on the market, so why not charge extra for that, too? They could include twelve simultaneous streams (but only in one house) with that subscription. 
    muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondonSpitbathStrangeDaysCluntBaby92applebynaturewatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 14
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    "Netflix does expect that it will lose subscribers when the new policy comes into effect in the States, but believes that overall it's worth it. “

    Losing those subscribers will be a plus for Netflix. 
    Those subscribers who shared their password with all family members are hurting revenue anyway. Just like Napster and the music industry people will always be able to rationalize thievery, claiming Netflix is overpriced and deserved to be taken down. Human nature at its finest.
    williamlondonOferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 14
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,007member
    lkrupp said:
    "Netflix does expect that it will lose subscribers when the new policy comes into effect in the States, but believes that overall it's worth it. “

    Losing those subscribers will be a plus for Netflix. Those subscribers who shared their password with all family members are hurting revenue anyway. Just like Napster and the music industry people will always be able to rationalize thievery, claiming Netflix is overpriced and deserved to be taken down. Human nature at its finest.
    First, Netflix famously used to encourage account sharing. Changing the rules later doesn't suddenly make customers who took them up on that practice into thieves. It makes Netflix disingenuous as it implements price increases, much like breakfast cereal companies that shrink your "Lucky Charms" box while leaving the sticker price the same. 

    Netflix could solve their problem by selling subscriptions on a per-stream basis, with, if they insist, different pricing for picture and audio resolution. Why do they need to spend resources spying on you by policing which IP addresses are accessing which streams? Currently the only way they're "losing" revenue through account sharing is via their $16 and $20 plans, mostly the $20 plan, which is the only one that allows four simultaneous streams. The "standard" $7 and $10 plans only allow a single stream to occur on the account at a given time. If anyone is sharing on those accounts, it's already inconvenient for the customer, and harmless to Netflix, because the required bandwidth doesn't change. The $16 plan allows 2.

    If you have a single big-screen TV home theater setup in the den, Netflix does not have a single-stream option for you with a 4K UHD picture. They don't even have a single-stream option for a 1080p picture. For context, Best Buy currently has zero 40" or larger 720p TVs available. Zero. 720p is the black-and-white set of the 21st century. At this point, 1080p is the low-budget standard, yet Netflix even charges extra for that, and double the price of their single-stream ad-free subscription if you want 4K, the standard resolution of most TV's being sold today.

    So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else. 

    So no, this isn't about thievery. This is about Netflix changing the terms of the deal and then calling their own customers thieves. This is on the level of AT&T selling unlimited data plans and then several years later changing the deal by throttling bandwidth to dial-up modem speeds after a customer used a certain amount of data, and then saying with a straight face that those customers still had unlimited data plans.
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamSpitbathCluntBaby92Oferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 14
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Well, there’s nothing you can do about it except not subscribe, right? Netflix will survive and thrive because it has a quality product to offer, just like Apple and its “overpriced garbage”  according to some here.. If I had a penny for every post declaring hatred for some company and its policies (like cellular providers, cable TV companies, etc) I could buy an island in the South Pacific. 

    Keep gnashing those teeth, brother.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 5 of 14
    chutzpahchutzpah Posts: 392member
    lkrupp said:
    Well, there’s nothing you can do about it except not subscribe, right? Netflix will survive and thrive because it has a quality product to offer, just like Apple and its “overpriced garbage”  according to some here.. If I had a penny for every post declaring hatred for some company and its policies (like cellular providers, cable TV companies, etc) I could buy an island in the South Pacific. 

    Keep gnashing those teeth, brother.
    If I had a penny for every time you decried people for decrying something else, when no one in proximity to you has really done that in anything like the way you describe...

    I reckon I'd maybe have a dollar.  Still, free dollar!
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamSpitbathCluntBaby92Oferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 14
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,362member
    AppleZulu said:
    lkrupp said:
    "Netflix does expect that it will lose subscribers when the new policy comes into effect in the States, but believes that overall it's worth it. “

    Losing those subscribers will be a plus for Netflix. Those subscribers who shared their password with all family members are hurting revenue anyway. Just like Napster and the music industry people will always be able to rationalize thievery, claiming Netflix is overpriced and deserved to be taken down. Human nature at its finest.
    First, Netflix famously used to encourage account sharing. Changing the rules later doesn't suddenly make customers who took them up on that practice into thieves. It makes Netflix disingenuous as it implements price increases, much like breakfast cereal companies that shrink your "Lucky Charms" box while leaving the sticker price the same. 

    Netflix could solve their problem by selling subscriptions on a per-stream basis, with, if they insist, different pricing for picture and audio resolution. Why do they need to spend resources spying on you by policing which IP addresses are accessing which streams? Currently the only way they're "losing" revenue through account sharing is via their $16 and $20 plans, mostly the $20 plan, which is the only one that allows four simultaneous streams. The "standard" $7 and $10 plans only allow a single stream to occur on the account at a given time. If anyone is sharing on those accounts, it's already inconvenient for the customer, and harmless to Netflix, because the required bandwidth doesn't change. The $16 plan allows 2.

    If you have a single big-screen TV home theater setup in the den, Netflix does not have a single-stream option for you with a 4K UHD picture. They don't even have a single-stream option for a 1080p picture. For context, Best Buy currently has zero 40" or larger 720p TVs available. Zero. 720p is the black-and-white set of the 21st century. At this point, 1080p is the low-budget standard, yet Netflix even charges extra for that, and double the price of their single-stream ad-free subscription if you want 4K, the standard resolution of most TV's being sold today.

    So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else. 

    So no, this isn't about thievery. This is about Netflix changing the terms of the deal and then calling their own customers thieves. This is on the level of AT&T selling unlimited data plans and then several years later changing the deal by throttling bandwidth to dial-up modem speeds after a customer used a certain amount of data, and then saying with a straight face that those customers still had unlimited data plans.
    The disingenuous part about Netflix is spot on. As business owners they obviously came to the realization that promoting sharing was ultimately a bad thing for them and backtracked on that strategy, which they are allowed to do. As far as the nickel & dime up-charges on resolutions, it does suck but they obviously think they can get away with it just like ISPs and cellular services can get away with selling "unlimited" data plans that have throttling. Totally disingenuous and deceptive marketing, but too few subscribers are holding them accountable. 

    The shrinkflation argument is pretty much business as usual across the board for many producers lately. The choices of-late are jack up the price, reduce the quantity, or do a bit of both. At least Apple has been doing better in this regard, especially with the new M2 Mac mini. 

    Your final metaphor is interesting, but not exactly applicable in my opinion:

    "So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else."

    The non-applicable part is that if you buy a box of magically delicious Lucky Charms and decide to share them with family, friends, or whomever, you are giving up your Lucky Charms and can no longer consume them yourself. When Netflix was not actively enforcing the number of concurrently active streams, i.e., no bowl smacking, you weren't giving up anything when you shared your Lucky Charms. Everyone you shared with was getting their own free box of Lucky Charms because you paid for one box.

    Now if Netflix actively enforced the number of concurrently active streams and if the subscription cost was purely based on the number of number of concurrently active streams you paid for the sharing thing would be moot. If you wanted to pay for 10 streams and give 9 of them away, or if 20 people wanted to time-share those 9 extra streams you gave away, that would be your choice and Netflix should not care one bit because they'd enforce the hard limit on the number of active streams. You'd simply be giving away a portion of what you bought, which is a loss to you. This seems like a totally fair approach for everyone involved, regardless of what Netflix did in the past.

    stompyOferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 14
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,007member
    dewme said:
    AppleZulu said:
    lkrupp said:
    "Netflix does expect that it will lose subscribers when the new policy comes into effect in the States, but believes that overall it's worth it. “

    Losing those subscribers will be a plus for Netflix. Those subscribers who shared their password with all family members are hurting revenue anyway. Just like Napster and the music industry people will always be able to rationalize thievery, claiming Netflix is overpriced and deserved to be taken down. Human nature at its finest.
    First, Netflix famously used to encourage account sharing. Changing the rules later doesn't suddenly make customers who took them up on that practice into thieves. It makes Netflix disingenuous as it implements price increases, much like breakfast cereal companies that shrink your "Lucky Charms" box while leaving the sticker price the same. 

    Netflix could solve their problem by selling subscriptions on a per-stream basis, with, if they insist, different pricing for picture and audio resolution. Why do they need to spend resources spying on you by policing which IP addresses are accessing which streams? Currently the only way they're "losing" revenue through account sharing is via their $16 and $20 plans, mostly the $20 plan, which is the only one that allows four simultaneous streams. The "standard" $7 and $10 plans only allow a single stream to occur on the account at a given time. If anyone is sharing on those accounts, it's already inconvenient for the customer, and harmless to Netflix, because the required bandwidth doesn't change. The $16 plan allows 2.

    If you have a single big-screen TV home theater setup in the den, Netflix does not have a single-stream option for you with a 4K UHD picture. They don't even have a single-stream option for a 1080p picture. For context, Best Buy currently has zero 40" or larger 720p TVs available. Zero. 720p is the black-and-white set of the 21st century. At this point, 1080p is the low-budget standard, yet Netflix even charges extra for that, and double the price of their single-stream ad-free subscription if you want 4K, the standard resolution of most TV's being sold today.

    So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else. 

    So no, this isn't about thievery. This is about Netflix changing the terms of the deal and then calling their own customers thieves. This is on the level of AT&T selling unlimited data plans and then several years later changing the deal by throttling bandwidth to dial-up modem speeds after a customer used a certain amount of data, and then saying with a straight face that those customers still had unlimited data plans.
    The disingenuous part about Netflix is spot on. As business owners they obviously came to the realization that promoting sharing was ultimately a bad thing for them and backtracked on that strategy, which they are allowed to do. As far as the nickel & dime up-charges on resolutions, it does suck but they obviously think they can get away with it just like ISPs and cellular services can get away with selling "unlimited" data plans that have throttling. Totally disingenuous and deceptive marketing, but too few subscribers are holding them accountable. 

    The shrinkflation argument is pretty much business as usual across the board for many producers lately. The choices of-late are jack up the price, reduce the quantity, or do a bit of both. At least Apple has been doing better in this regard, especially with the new M2 Mac mini. 

    Your final metaphor is interesting, but not exactly applicable in my opinion:

    "So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else."

    The non-applicable part is that if you buy a box of magically delicious Lucky Charms and decide to share them with family, friends, or whomever, you are giving up your Lucky Charms and can no longer consume them yourself. When Netflix was not actively enforcing the number of concurrently active streams, i.e., no bowl smacking, you weren't giving up anything when you shared your Lucky Charms. Everyone you shared with was getting their own free box of Lucky Charms because you paid for one box.

    Now if Netflix actively enforced the number of concurrently active streams and if the subscription cost was purely based on the number of number of concurrently active streams you paid for the sharing thing would be moot. If you wanted to pay for 10 streams and give 9 of them away, or if 20 people wanted to time-share those 9 extra streams you gave away, that would be your choice and Netflix should not care one bit because they'd enforce the hard limit on the number of active streams. You'd simply be giving away a portion of what you bought, which is a loss to you. This seems like a totally fair approach for everyone involved, regardless of what Netflix did in the past.

    Well, o.k. No metaphor is perfect. If it was, it would be a literal description of a thing, rather than a comparison to another thing to make a point.

    Perhaps a better metaphor would be if General Mills only included the marshmallows in multipacks of cereal boxes and is now sending out an angry leprechaun to stop you from sharing the extra boxes.

    As far as the last point, I think Netflix is already enforcing the number of concurrently active streams, and that's perfectly ok. The fifth person to try to simultaneously watch something on a four-stream account gets an error message until somebody else finishes. It's a four-stream account. There's nothing wrong with that, and I think that's already happening. The problem here is that they're now saying they'll stop the second person (or even the first) from watching something on a four stream account if that person is streaming from the wrong IP address. They're saying you can only have the green clover marshmallows if you buy the big warehouse club multipack, and none of those boxes of cereal from that multipack may be eaten by anyone outside of your household, ever, even when the boxes inside your household are sitting idle in the cupboard. 
    muthuk_vanalingamCluntBaby92Ofer
  • Reply 8 of 14
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,362member
    AppleZulu said:
    dewme said:
    AppleZulu said:
    lkrupp said:
    "Netflix does expect that it will lose subscribers when the new policy comes into effect in the States, but believes that overall it's worth it. “

    Losing those subscribers will be a plus for Netflix. Those subscribers who shared their password with all family members are hurting revenue anyway. Just like Napster and the music industry people will always be able to rationalize thievery, claiming Netflix is overpriced and deserved to be taken down. Human nature at its finest.
    First, Netflix famously used to encourage account sharing. Changing the rules later doesn't suddenly make customers who took them up on that practice into thieves. It makes Netflix disingenuous as it implements price increases, much like breakfast cereal companies that shrink your "Lucky Charms" box while leaving the sticker price the same. 

    Netflix could solve their problem by selling subscriptions on a per-stream basis, with, if they insist, different pricing for picture and audio resolution. Why do they need to spend resources spying on you by policing which IP addresses are accessing which streams? Currently the only way they're "losing" revenue through account sharing is via their $16 and $20 plans, mostly the $20 plan, which is the only one that allows four simultaneous streams. The "standard" $7 and $10 plans only allow a single stream to occur on the account at a given time. If anyone is sharing on those accounts, it's already inconvenient for the customer, and harmless to Netflix, because the required bandwidth doesn't change. The $16 plan allows 2.

    If you have a single big-screen TV home theater setup in the den, Netflix does not have a single-stream option for you with a 4K UHD picture. They don't even have a single-stream option for a 1080p picture. For context, Best Buy currently has zero 40" or larger 720p TVs available. Zero. 720p is the black-and-white set of the 21st century. At this point, 1080p is the low-budget standard, yet Netflix even charges extra for that, and double the price of their single-stream ad-free subscription if you want 4K, the standard resolution of most TV's being sold today.

    So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else. 

    So no, this isn't about thievery. This is about Netflix changing the terms of the deal and then calling their own customers thieves. This is on the level of AT&T selling unlimited data plans and then several years later changing the deal by throttling bandwidth to dial-up modem speeds after a customer used a certain amount of data, and then saying with a straight face that those customers still had unlimited data plans.
    The disingenuous part about Netflix is spot on. As business owners they obviously came to the realization that promoting sharing was ultimately a bad thing for them and backtracked on that strategy, which they are allowed to do. As far as the nickel & dime up-charges on resolutions, it does suck but they obviously think they can get away with it just like ISPs and cellular services can get away with selling "unlimited" data plans that have throttling. Totally disingenuous and deceptive marketing, but too few subscribers are holding them accountable. 

    The shrinkflation argument is pretty much business as usual across the board for many producers lately. The choices of-late are jack up the price, reduce the quantity, or do a bit of both. At least Apple has been doing better in this regard, especially with the new M2 Mac mini. 

    Your final metaphor is interesting, but not exactly applicable in my opinion:

    "So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else."

    The non-applicable part is that if you buy a box of magically delicious Lucky Charms and decide to share them with family, friends, or whomever, you are giving up your Lucky Charms and can no longer consume them yourself. When Netflix was not actively enforcing the number of concurrently active streams, i.e., no bowl smacking, you weren't giving up anything when you shared your Lucky Charms. Everyone you shared with was getting their own free box of Lucky Charms because you paid for one box.

    Now if Netflix actively enforced the number of concurrently active streams and if the subscription cost was purely based on the number of number of concurrently active streams you paid for the sharing thing would be moot. If you wanted to pay for 10 streams and give 9 of them away, or if 20 people wanted to time-share those 9 extra streams you gave away, that would be your choice and Netflix should not care one bit because they'd enforce the hard limit on the number of active streams. You'd simply be giving away a portion of what you bought, which is a loss to you. This seems like a totally fair approach for everyone involved, regardless of what Netflix did in the past.

    Well, o.k. No metaphor is perfect. If it was, it would be a literal description of a thing, rather than a comparison to another thing to make a point.

    Perhaps a better metaphor would be if General Mills only included the marshmallows in multipacks of cereal boxes and is now sending out an angry leprechaun to stop you from sharing the extra boxes.

    As far as the last point, I think Netflix is already enforcing the number of concurrently active streams, and that's perfectly ok. The fifth person to try to simultaneously watch something on a four-stream account gets an error message until somebody else finishes. It's a four-stream account. There's nothing wrong with that, and I think that's already happening. The problem here is that they're now saying they'll stop the second person (or even the first) from watching something on a four stream account if that person is streaming from the wrong IP address. They're saying you can only have the green clover marshmallows if you buy the big warehouse club multipack, and none of those boxes of cereal from that multipack may be eaten by anyone outside of your household, ever, even when the boxes inside your household are sitting idle in the cupboard. 
    Netflix has always had some location based restrictions due to licensing and IP concerns for certain content, which is one of the reasons behind the use of VPNs. But if Netflix is now putting streaming restrictions that are tied to a specific IP address, well that’s a new and painful twist. I certainly expect that I can access my Netflix streams when I’m traveling as long as no locality licensing issues are in play. Even cable companies like Spectrum allow their services to be consumed from any location and on any device, with some exceptions for access to local TV stations due to licensing restrictions. 

    I suppose any company that is selling a service is free to place whatever restrictions they want on how their service is consumed. Some of the apps I use every day including, for example, Office 365, Carbon Copy Pro, 1Password, etc., have restrictions that are tied to different editions, like personal, team, family, household, enterprise, educational, unlimited, etc., of the products. If we view software products as being simply a means to consume a certain type of service, they too define editions/versions that define and restrict the scope of customer’s consumption of what they provide.

    The sellers of these products/services tend of hold all of the cards for whatever they sell. As consumers we can only choose whatever’s best for us functionally and financially. At some point the sellers can, and often will, redefine what they will make available for sale and we have to grin and bear it or kick them to the curb. Was I happy when 1Password and Microsoft changed their selling models to focus on subscriptions versus one-time purchase? Nope. Will I be happy the first time I try to use my Netflix subscription when sitting in a hotel in Kansas and it doesn’t work? Nope. Was I happy when Apple stopped charging for macOS upgrades and decided to give away iWork. Yes. Was fairness ever part of any of these changes? Probably not.

    Sometimes you win and sometimes you pay.


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 9 of 14
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,337member
    lkrupp said:
    "Netflix does expect that it will lose subscribers when the new policy comes into effect in the States, but believes that overall it's worth it. “

    Losing those subscribers will be a plus for Netflix. 
    Those subscribers who shared their password with all family members are hurting revenue anyway. Just like Napster and the music industry people will always be able to rationalize thievery, claiming Netflix is overpriced and deserved to be taken down. Human nature at its finest.
    How is this comparable to Napster? If you pay for 2 streams and share with the whole family there can only be 2 streams used at once..period. It's not like you can give 50 people your sign on and they can all sit back and enjoy Netflix at the same time on your single account? It simply doesn't work that way.

    Napster was about people stealing entire albums or songs with zero money paid and sharing them without limit. As someone else mentioned if I pay for Ultra HD and with Ultra HD comes with four streams no more no less. I know multiple people that pay for that ( Ultra HD ) and don't have a family in the household that use it. Does Netflix prorate that monthly price for all of the streams that aren't used? Absolutely not...so easy with the thievery cracks.. If I pay for 2 streams I want the ability to use them as I want.

    All they need to do is set up the ability to do family sharing and charge accordingly. I share my 2 stream account with my GF.. she stays with me about 3 days per week. To say that we both need to have a separate accounts because 2 streams can no longer be shared is silly to me.

    edited April 2023 StrangeDaysmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 14
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,337member
    dewme said:
    AppleZulu said:
    lkrupp said:
    "Netflix does expect that it will lose subscribers when the new policy comes into effect in the States, but believes that overall it's worth it. “

    Losing those subscribers will be a plus for Netflix. Those subscribers who shared their password with all family members are hurting revenue anyway. Just like Napster and the music industry people will always be able to rationalize thievery, claiming Netflix is overpriced and deserved to be taken down. Human nature at its finest.
    First, Netflix famously used to encourage account sharing. Changing the rules later doesn't suddenly make customers who took them up on that practice into thieves. It makes Netflix disingenuous as it implements price increases, much like breakfast cereal companies that shrink your "Lucky Charms" box while leaving the sticker price the same. 

    Netflix could solve their problem by selling subscriptions on a per-stream basis, with, if they insist, different pricing for picture and audio resolution. Why do they need to spend resources spying on you by policing which IP addresses are accessing which streams? Currently the only way they're "losing" revenue through account sharing is via their $16 and $20 plans, mostly the $20 plan, which is the only one that allows four simultaneous streams. The "standard" $7 and $10 plans only allow a single stream to occur on the account at a given time. If anyone is sharing on those accounts, it's already inconvenient for the customer, and harmless to Netflix, because the required bandwidth doesn't change. The $16 plan allows 2.

    If you have a single big-screen TV home theater setup in the den, Netflix does not have a single-stream option for you with a 4K UHD picture. They don't even have a single-stream option for a 1080p picture. For context, Best Buy currently has zero 40" or larger 720p TVs available. Zero. 720p is the black-and-white set of the 21st century. At this point, 1080p is the low-budget standard, yet Netflix even charges extra for that, and double the price of their single-stream ad-free subscription if you want 4K, the standard resolution of most TV's being sold today.

    So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else. 

    So no, this isn't about thievery. This is about Netflix changing the terms of the deal and then calling their own customers thieves. This is on the level of AT&T selling unlimited data plans and then several years later changing the deal by throttling bandwidth to dial-up modem speeds after a customer used a certain amount of data, and then saying with a straight face that those customers still had unlimited data plans.
    The disingenuous part about Netflix is spot on. As business owners they obviously came to the realization that promoting sharing was ultimately a bad thing for them and backtracked on that strategy, which they are allowed to do. As far as the nickel & dime up-charges on resolutions, it does suck but they obviously think they can get away with it just like ISPs and cellular services can get away with selling "unlimited" data plans that have throttling. Totally disingenuous and deceptive marketing, but too few subscribers are holding them accountable. 

    The shrinkflation argument is pretty much business as usual across the board for many producers lately. The choices of-late are jack up the price, reduce the quantity, or do a bit of both. At least Apple has been doing better in this regard, especially with the new M2 Mac mini. 

    Your final metaphor is interesting, but not exactly applicable in my opinion:

    "So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else."

    The non-applicable part is that if you buy a box of magically delicious Lucky Charms and decide to share them with family, friends, or whomever, you are giving up your Lucky Charms and can no longer consume them yourself. When Netflix was not actively enforcing the number of concurrently active streams, i.e., no bowl smacking, you weren't giving up anything when you shared your Lucky Charms. Everyone you shared with was getting their own free box of Lucky Charms because you paid for one box.

    Now if Netflix actively enforced the number of concurrently active streams and if the subscription cost was purely based on the number of number of concurrently active streams you paid for the sharing thing would be moot. If you wanted to pay for 10 streams and give 9 of them away, or if 20 people wanted to time-share those 9 extra streams you gave away, that would be your choice and Netflix should not care one bit because they'd enforce the hard limit on the number of active streams. You'd simply be giving away a portion of what you bought, which is a loss to you. This seems like a totally fair approach for everyone involved, regardless of what Netflix did in the past.

    They do monitor and enforce stream limits...

    How to Know if Too Many People Are Using Your Netflix Account

    While you can be signed into Netflix on multiple devices, you can only actively watch a stream on the number of screens included in your plan. This means that if you have the two-screen plan, you can still have three people signed into your account on various devices, as long as they aren't all watching at the same time.

    However, if you see a message like Too many people are using your account right now, the maximum number of people watching on your account is already reached.


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 14
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,007member
    jcs2305 said:
    lkrupp said:
    "Netflix does expect that it will lose subscribers when the new policy comes into effect in the States, but believes that overall it's worth it. “

    Losing those subscribers will be a plus for Netflix. Those subscribers who shared their password with all family members are hurting revenue anyway. Just like Napster and the music industry people will always be able to rationalize thievery, claiming Netflix is overpriced and deserved to be taken down. Human nature at its finest.
    How is this comparable to Napster? If you pay for 2 streams and share with the whole family there can only be 2 streams used at once..period. It's not like you can give 50 people your sign on and they can all sit back and enjoy Netflix at the same time on your single account? It simply doesn't work that way.

    Napster was about people stealing entire albums or songs with zero money paid and sharing them without limit. As someone else mentioned if I pay for Ultra HD and with Ultra HD comes with four streams no more no less. I know multiple people that pay for that ( Ultra HD ) and don't have a family in the household that use it. Does Netflix prorate that monthly price for all of the streams that aren't used? Absolutely not...so easy with the thievery cracks.. If I pay for 2 streams I want the ability to use them as I want.

    All they need to do is set up the ability to do family sharing and charge accordingly. I share my 2 stream account with my GF.. she stays with me about 3 days per week. To say that we both need to have a separate accounts because 2 streams can no longer be shared is silly to me.

    If she uses the account at her place, you are evidently one of the targets of the new restrictions. They will essentially monitor ip addresses and whatever other info they can use to determine that she’s located elsewhere, and they’ll tell you that she doesn’t count as a “member of your household,” so they can charge you more for the same level of service. 

    The dumb thing is if they left everyone the hell alone and just jacked the price by 25% because ‘inflation’ or whatever, switch to a straight per-stream price, regardless of who’s where, they ‘d make more money and lose fewer customers in the process. Instead, they’ve found a way to raise prices while insulting and blaming their own customers for it. 
    edited April 2023 StrangeDaysmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 14
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,877member
    Right way: Allow and promote “family sharing”, with shared billing and access. (Apple)

    Wrong way: Require a 4-device service tier for 4K, then refuse to let me share it with my mother despite only using 50% of the devices I’m paying for. (Netflix)

    …only one of these businesses aligns their interests with their customers interests. When companies don’t align their interests they are in conflict with their customers. This is a sub-optimal way to run a business.
    edited April 2023 muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobraAppleZulu
  • Reply 13 of 14
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,362member
    jcs2305 said:
    dewme said:
    AppleZulu said:
    lkrupp said:
    "Netflix does expect that it will lose subscribers when the new policy comes into effect in the States, but believes that overall it's worth it. “

    Losing those subscribers will be a plus for Netflix. Those subscribers who shared their password with all family members are hurting revenue anyway. Just like Napster and the music industry people will always be able to rationalize thievery, claiming Netflix is overpriced and deserved to be taken down. Human nature at its finest.
    First, Netflix famously used to encourage account sharing. Changing the rules later doesn't suddenly make customers who took them up on that practice into thieves. It makes Netflix disingenuous as it implements price increases, much like breakfast cereal companies that shrink your "Lucky Charms" box while leaving the sticker price the same. 

    Netflix could solve their problem by selling subscriptions on a per-stream basis, with, if they insist, different pricing for picture and audio resolution. Why do they need to spend resources spying on you by policing which IP addresses are accessing which streams? Currently the only way they're "losing" revenue through account sharing is via their $16 and $20 plans, mostly the $20 plan, which is the only one that allows four simultaneous streams. The "standard" $7 and $10 plans only allow a single stream to occur on the account at a given time. If anyone is sharing on those accounts, it's already inconvenient for the customer, and harmless to Netflix, because the required bandwidth doesn't change. The $16 plan allows 2.

    If you have a single big-screen TV home theater setup in the den, Netflix does not have a single-stream option for you with a 4K UHD picture. They don't even have a single-stream option for a 1080p picture. For context, Best Buy currently has zero 40" or larger 720p TVs available. Zero. 720p is the black-and-white set of the 21st century. At this point, 1080p is the low-budget standard, yet Netflix even charges extra for that, and double the price of their single-stream ad-free subscription if you want 4K, the standard resolution of most TV's being sold today.

    So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else. 

    So no, this isn't about thievery. This is about Netflix changing the terms of the deal and then calling their own customers thieves. This is on the level of AT&T selling unlimited data plans and then several years later changing the deal by throttling bandwidth to dial-up modem speeds after a customer used a certain amount of data, and then saying with a straight face that those customers still had unlimited data plans.
    The disingenuous part about Netflix is spot on. As business owners they obviously came to the realization that promoting sharing was ultimately a bad thing for them and backtracked on that strategy, which they are allowed to do. As far as the nickel & dime up-charges on resolutions, it does suck but they obviously think they can get away with it just like ISPs and cellular services can get away with selling "unlimited" data plans that have throttling. Totally disingenuous and deceptive marketing, but too few subscribers are holding them accountable. 

    The shrinkflation argument is pretty much business as usual across the board for many producers lately. The choices of-late are jack up the price, reduce the quantity, or do a bit of both. At least Apple has been doing better in this regard, especially with the new M2 Mac mini. 

    Your final metaphor is interesting, but not exactly applicable in my opinion:

    "So now, to call back that earlier metaphor, not only are they charging extra for the green clovers and blue diamond marshmallows in your lucky charms, but they're also shrinking the box and employing an angry leprechaun to smack the bowl out of your hands if you dare to try sharing any of those lucky charms you paid for with anyone else."

    The non-applicable part is that if you buy a box of magically delicious Lucky Charms and decide to share them with family, friends, or whomever, you are giving up your Lucky Charms and can no longer consume them yourself. When Netflix was not actively enforcing the number of concurrently active streams, i.e., no bowl smacking, you weren't giving up anything when you shared your Lucky Charms. Everyone you shared with was getting their own free box of Lucky Charms because you paid for one box.

    Now if Netflix actively enforced the number of concurrently active streams and if the subscription cost was purely based on the number of number of concurrently active streams you paid for the sharing thing would be moot. If you wanted to pay for 10 streams and give 9 of them away, or if 20 people wanted to time-share those 9 extra streams you gave away, that would be your choice and Netflix should not care one bit because they'd enforce the hard limit on the number of active streams. You'd simply be giving away a portion of what you bought, which is a loss to you. This seems like a totally fair approach for everyone involved, regardless of what Netflix did in the past.

    They do monitor and enforce stream limits...

    How to Know if Too Many People Are Using Your Netflix Account

    While you can be signed into Netflix on multiple devices, you can only actively watch a stream on the number of screens included in your plan. This means that if you have the two-screen plan, you can still have three people signed into your account on various devices, as long as they aren't all watching at the same time.

    However, if you see a message like Too many people are using your account right now, the maximum number of people watching on your account is already reached.


    They do now, but back when Netflix had their “sharing is love” campaign to boost subscriber numbers they didn’t, which is why so many people are rightfully upset with them now. I personally have no issues with Netflix’s stream limits or even their pricing. It’s their lack of quality content and the difficulty in finding something decent to watch that bothers me more. I can easily waste 30 minutes or more searching in vain for something watchable. That’s when I’m watching alone. If my spouse is present the searching and scrolling is not tolerated for more than 5 minutes and it’s back to HGTV Hell and reaching for my phone and AirPods.
    muthuk_vanalingam
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