'Diablo IV' skips Mac gamers, and Whoopi Goldberg is mad about it

Posted:
in Mac Software
Blizzard Entertainment's latest game in the series, "Diablo IV," is not available for Mac users, and Whoopi Goldberg has turned to social media to vent her dismay about it.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 23
    One whole sentence. That's a very short article :-)
    pichaelappleinsideruseraderutter
  • Reply 2 of 23
    PancakePancake Posts: 40member
    But what does Ja Rule think? Someone get him on the line!
  • Reply 3 of 23
    xyzzy-xxxxyzzy-xxx Posts: 180member
    I am also mad about it and decided not to buy Diablo for my PlayStation, so I will skip Diablo IV if Blizzard does not change its mind and does a Mac port...
    applebynaturebyronl
  • Reply 4 of 23
    To be fair, I would have never thought "Whoopi Goldberg is upset about not being able to play DIablo IV on macOS" would be a sentence in real life either.
    foregoneconclusionCloudTalkinronnroundaboutnowappleinsideruserbyronlStrangeDaysdocbburkwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 23
    lowededwookielowededwookie Posts: 1,132member
    Queue the “Macs suck for gaming trolls”.

    The reality is that Macs are one of the best platforms for gaming and Metal3 is the reason.

    The reason that Macs suck for gaming is 100% on the developers who take the crappy approach of taking a Windows game and wrapping it in Cider and calling it a Mac game. There’s literally NOTHING Mac in this approach. It’s a Windows game running on Linux software and it will always have a performance hit.

    Compare the old version of Eve Online to the current Metal based version and the difference is night and day. Then compare that to the iOS version of Eve Echoes and you start to get the picture that it’s not Mac hardware that’s the problem. We’ve been screwed by idiot developers who just treat us as a third class citizen in gaming.

    We don’t need AAA titles if this is their approach. We need games designed specifically for Macs that makes people want to game on Macs that leave Windows PCs and gaming consoles in the dust. We can do it if developers don’t develop for the money but develop to showcase their talent. Ego is a massive driver and will be the only way Macs can get out of their gaming doldrums.
    edited June 2023 danoxapplebynatureronnroundaboutnowbyronlStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 23
    maltzmaltz Posts: 446member
    Queue the “Macs suck for gaming trolls”.

    The reality is that Macs are one of the best platforms for gaming and Metal3 is the reason.

    The hard truth is that while Mac might now have great developer support for gaming (which was NOT always the case) it's also the smallest platform for gaming, save perhaps Linux.  Especially compared to Windows, but also compared to consoles.  Remember, 100% of consoles are used for gaming, while not 100% of Macs are, which dilutes the gaming market that Mac sales represent.  I'm always disappointed when a game isn't released for Mac (or Linux, for that matter) but I get why they make such a choice.

    That said, it is out of character for Blizzard to skip the Mac, and maybe a first?
    muthuk_vanalingamCloudTalkinwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 23
    mikethemartianmikethemartian Posts: 1,262member
    I’m sure she can afford an extra PC or console if she needs to really play it.
  • Reply 8 of 23
    mikethemartianmikethemartian Posts: 1,262member
    Queue the “Macs suck for gaming trolls”.

    The reality is that Macs are one of the best platforms for gaming and Metal3 is the reason.

    The reason that Macs suck for gaming is 100% on the developers who take the crappy approach of taking a Windows game and wrapping it in Cider and calling it a Mac game. There’s literally NOTHING Mac in this approach. It’s a Windows game running on Linux software and it will always have a performance hit.

    Compare the old version of Eve Online to the current Metal based version and the difference is night and day. Then compare that to the iOS version of Eve Echoes and you start to get the picture that it’s not Mac hardware that’s the problem. We’ve been screwed by idiot developers who just treat us as a third class citizen in gaming.

    We don’t need AAA titles if this is their approach. We need games designed specifically for Macs that makes people want to game on Macs that leave Windows PCs and gaming consoles in the dust. We can do it if developers don’t develop for the money but develop to showcase their talent. Ego is a massive driver and will be the only way Macs can get out of their gaming doldrums.
    If you think it is such a great under utilized platform for gaming with great market potential you should view it as an opportunity.
  • Reply 9 of 23
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,681member
    Queue the “Macs suck for gaming trolls”.

    The reality is that Macs are one of the best platforms for gaming and Metal3 is the reason.

    The reason that Macs suck for gaming is 100% on the developers who take the crappy approach of taking a Windows game and wrapping it in Cider and calling it a Mac game. There’s literally NOTHING Mac in this approach. It’s a Windows game running on Linux software and it will always have a performance hit.

    Compare the old version of Eve Online to the current Metal based version and the difference is night and day. Then compare that to the iOS version of Eve Echoes and you start to get the picture that it’s not Mac hardware that’s the problem. We’ve been screwed by idiot developers who just treat us as a third class citizen in gaming.

    We don’t need AAA titles if this is their approach. We need games designed specifically for Macs that makes people want to game on Macs that leave Windows PCs and gaming consoles in the dust. We can do it if developers don’t develop for the money but develop to showcase their talent. Ego is a massive driver and will be the only way Macs can get out of their gaming doldrums.
    Yes, and the way the new Vision Pro UI works if that doesn’t convince anyone (game companies) to make a game using the new Apple/Mac technology nothing will, look select and pinch.

    PS: Imagine playing Jedi Academy with a Vision Pro, and executing the force power against your enemies……
    edited June 2023 watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 23
    CloudTalkinCloudTalkin Posts: 916member
    danox said:
    PS: Imagine playing Jedi Academy with a Vision Pro, and executing the force power against your enemies……
    That sounds pretty terrible if I'm honest. VR gaming isn't really suited for FPS games imo.  Heck not really suited for TPS games either.  It has nothing to do with quality of visuals, framerates, or anything like that.  For all it's visual glitz and frenetic energy, FPS games are primarily stationary affairs conducted for long periods of time.  I'm just guessing and joking, but I imagine the vast majority of the targeted demographic would be tired of moving... +/- 15 minutes.
  • Reply 11 of 23
    Queue the “Macs suck for gaming trolls”.

    The reality is that Macs are one of the best platforms for gaming and Metal3 is the reason.

    The reason that Macs suck for gaming is 100% on the developers who take the crappy approach of taking a Windows game and wrapping it in Cider and calling it a Mac game. There’s literally NOTHING Mac in this approach. It’s a Windows game running on Linux software and it will always have a performance hit.

    Compare the old version of Eve Online to the current Metal based version and the difference is night and day. Then compare that to the iOS version of Eve Echoes and you start to get the picture that it’s not Mac hardware that’s the problem. We’ve been screwed by idiot developers who just treat us as a third class citizen in gaming.

    We don’t need AAA titles if this is their approach. We need games designed specifically for Macs that makes people want to game on Macs that leave Windows PCs and gaming consoles in the dust. We can do it if developers don’t develop for the money but develop to showcase their talent. Ego is a massive driver and will be the only way Macs can get out of their gaming doldrums.
    The issue, like it is for almost everything, is... money. I don't think it's an "idiot developer" problem.

    Developing for the Mac with Metal et. al., takes expertise and effort to port existing games that aren't using Apple's APIs.. It also means that there's a different code base to test and support. As a business decision, If the developer doesn't take the cost into account and doesn't think they'll make up the effort in sales, then a port to native technologies on the Mac won't get done regardless of the "ego" strokes of saying "I ported to the Mac and it runs so much better".

    Use of high level frameworks mask that effort over and can be a much more "justifiable" - but as you say it's at the expense of performance. 

    It will be interesting to see in practice how well the porting toolkit works to reduce the costs/efforts to port to Mac native technologies.
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 23
    ronnronn Posts: 650member
    Whoopi via her IG account

    "This is what I'm asking you, Blizzard," Goldberg said. "This is Whoopi. You know how much I love Diablo. I would like y'all to let those of us who use our Apples to play… allow us to play on the Apple. Take Diablo 4 and let us do it and have a great time.”

    "Give me my Diablo 4, because I paid for it, I was all excited for it, I went to play on it, and I'm telling you, this really pissed me off."

    roundaboutnowwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 23
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,210member
    Apple has spent a ton on original content for Apple TV+. I'm not opposed to that, but it seems odd that they would not have first spent big $ on first party games, since games are computer software, which is presumably more in Apple's wheelhouse than making movies and TV shows. 
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 23
    Ehm, you can use Apples new Game Porting Toolkit. Some people have managed to port Diablo 4 already and tons of other games. https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Game_Porting_Toolkit
    ronnroundaboutnowxyzzy-xxxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 23
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 1,115member
    Ehm, you can use Apples new Game Porting Toolkit. Some people have managed to port Diablo 4 already and tons of other games. https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Game_Porting_Toolkit
    Yes, but that's meant for developer benchmarking not to actually play the game. A proper port, written for the Mac, taking direct advantage of Metal, etc. would run much faster!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 23
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,520member
    maltz said:
    Queue the “Macs suck for gaming trolls”.

    The reality is that Macs are one of the best platforms for gaming and Metal3 is the reason.

    The hard truth is that while Mac might now have great developer support for gaming (which was NOT always the case) it's also the smallest platform for gaming, save perhaps Linux.  Especially compared to Windows, but also compared to consoles.  Remember, 100% of consoles are used for gaming, while not 100% of Macs are, which dilutes the gaming market that Mac sales represent.  I'm always disappointed when a game isn't released for Mac (or Linux, for that matter) but I get why they make such a choice.

    That said, it is out of character for Blizzard to skip the Mac, and maybe a first?
    Sadly Blizzard has been clearly exiting the Mac Market for a few years now. I own a lot of their games, but only because they had Mac releases. Word on the street is they had a falling out with Apple, something about a lack of support from Apple themselves... Don't know how much truth there is to that. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 23
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,269moderator
    One whole sentence. That's a very short article :-)
    The article must have been cropped posting to the forum, the full article is here:

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/06/08/diablo-iv-skips-mac-gamers-and-whoopi-goldberg-is-mad-about-it
    maltz said:
    it is out of character for Blizzard to skip the Mac, and maybe a first?
    They never ported Overwatch. OpenGL was the key to older Mac ports. Since Apple switched to Metal, games with a custom engine needs months of work to port.

    They are also being bought out by Microsoft so I doubt Mac support will be a priority after that.
    We don’t need AAA titles if this is their approach. We need games designed specifically for Macs that makes people want to game on Macs that leave Windows PCs and gaming consoles in the dust.
    A lot of older games run really well through compatibility layers. Here is someone running Half-Life 2 in Parallels (9:20) on M1/M2 at 60FPS:



    If it's between not having support at all and a low-effort compatibility layer version, the latter is the better option. The Steam Deck has over 8,000 games due to using compatibility layers.

    Diablo IV runs around 90FPS on M2 Max with the porting kit:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/14307be/diablo_iv_on_m2_max_using_macos_sonoma_and_game/
    ronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 23
    lowededwookielowededwookie Posts: 1,132member
    Queue the “Macs suck for gaming trolls”.

    The reality is that Macs are one of the best platforms for gaming and Metal3 is the reason.

    The reason that Macs suck for gaming is 100% on the developers who take the crappy approach of taking a Windows game and wrapping it in Cider and calling it a Mac game. There’s literally NOTHING Mac in this approach. It’s a Windows game running on Linux software and it will always have a performance hit.

    Compare the old version of Eve Online to the current Metal based version and the difference is night and day. Then compare that to the iOS version of Eve Echoes and you start to get the picture that it’s not Mac hardware that’s the problem. We’ve been screwed by idiot developers who just treat us as a third class citizen in gaming.

    We don’t need AAA titles if this is their approach. We need games designed specifically for Macs that makes people want to game on Macs that leave Windows PCs and gaming consoles in the dust. We can do it if developers don’t develop for the money but develop to showcase their talent. Ego is a massive driver and will be the only way Macs can get out of their gaming doldrums.
    The issue, like it is for almost everything, is... money. I don't think it's an "idiot developer" problem.

    Developing for the Mac with Metal et. al., takes expertise and effort to port existing games that aren't using Apple's APIs.. It also means that there's a different code base to test and support. As a business decision, If the developer doesn't take the cost into account and doesn't think they'll make up the effort in sales, then a port to native technologies on the Mac won't get done regardless of the "ego" strokes of saying "I ported to the Mac and it runs so much better".

    Use of high level frameworks mask that effort over and can be a much more "justifiable" - but as you say it's at the expense of performance. 

    It will be interesting to see in practice how well the porting toolkit works to reduce the costs/efforts to port to Mac native technologies.
    which is why I said developers need to NOT port their games but make Mac only games that will get the industry waking up.

    Mac users will pay for games which means developers are losing money by keeping Macs out of the loop. But Mac users are decerning and won’t buy titles if they are a hassle. Cider is the biggest reason Mac users don’t buy games. It turns good games on PCs into crappy games on the Mac which turns people away from a potentially great gaming platform.

    Mac developers need to stop with status quo games and build limitless games to showcase the Mac. Let’s see if they have the balls to give it a go.
    ronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 23
    lowededwookielowededwookie Posts: 1,132member
    Marvin said:
    One whole sentence. That's a very short article :-)
    The article must have been cropped posting to the forum, the full article is here:

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/06/08/diablo-iv-skips-mac-gamers-and-whoopi-goldberg-is-mad-about-it
    maltz said:
    it is out of character for Blizzard to skip the Mac, and maybe a first?
    They never ported Overwatch. OpenGL was the key to older Mac ports. Since Apple switched to Metal, games with a custom engine needs months of work to port.

    They are also being bought out by Microsoft so I doubt Mac support will be a priority after that.
    We don’t need AAA titles if this is their approach. We need games designed specifically for Macs that makes people want to game on Macs that leave Windows PCs and gaming consoles in the dust.
    A lot of older games run really well through compatibility layers. Here is someone running Half-Life 2 in Parallels (9:20) on M1/M2 at 60FPS:



    If it's between not having support at all and a low-effort compatibility layer version, the latter is the better option. The Steam Deck has over 8,000 games due to using compatibility layers.

    Diablo IV runs around 90FPS on M2 Max with the porting kit:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/14307be/diablo_iv_on_m2_max_using_macos_sonoma_and_game/
    Parallels is awesome for some games but not all. But it’s still not a Mac game is it? It’s a Windows game running on Windows on a Mac.

    we NEED native games.
    ronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 23
    michelb76michelb76 Posts: 585member
    Queue the “Macs suck for gaming trolls”.

    The reality is that Macs are one of the best platforms for gaming and Metal3 is the reason.

    We don’t need AAA titles if this is their approach. We need games designed specifically for Macs that makes people want to game on Macs that leave Windows PCs and gaming consoles in the dust. We can do it if developers don’t develop for the money but develop to showcase their talent. Ego is a massive driver and will be the only way Macs can get out of their gaming doldrums.
    If you think it is such a great under utilized platform for gaming with great market potential you should view it as an opportunity.
    But Apple doesn't (yet?), so good luck getting your game to run with great performance. It may be getter there in a few years now that we have mid-range GPU's. But the PC gaming market sucks, because of piracy. So they're also getting the crappy console ports, and performance is masked by high-end GPU's.

    These games still need to sell, something which they haven't in the past. Now that we are finally getting acceptable mid-range GPU's, and some basic software support from Apple, maybe they will.

    It's going to take a few years of YOU, and many, many others to buy the few game ports that are starting to coming out now, to make the Mac a viable market for gaming publishers. And I don't know about you, but I'm not in the market for Death Stranding, I thought Resident Evil Village was a crap port, and No Man's Sky is simply not my kind of game.

    The reason WoW even has decent Metal support is because Apple wrote that code and gave it to Blizzard. For how many games do you think Apple is willing to do this? I can count them on one 1 finger.

    So unless we get some day one ports, that massively sell, this is still going to be a long, long road.

    watto_cobra
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