Connections between Apple Car and a mysterious Arizona facility deepen with new evidence

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  • Reply 21 of 44
    radarthekat said: You might change your view of you watched some of Sandy Monroe’s vehicle tear form videos.  Tesla is leaps and bounds ahead in important engineering areas. 
    Such as? You've apparently watched the videos but don't have a synopsis of their "leaps and bounds" advantage?
    edited June 2023 williamlondon
  • Reply 22 of 44
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,032member
    chasm said:
    If anything, this story just reinforces my belief that Apple IS NOT building a car to manufacture. What they are building, IMHO, is a car ecosystem that may feature self-driving and that extended CarPlay they already showed off last year, that could be licensed to other car manufacturers.

    This story and others just massively hint at partnerships with existing carmakers rather than Apple trying to enter the car manufacturing business, which would have produced impossible-to-hide factories and permitting proof at least seven years ago (minimum) if that’s what they were actually doing.
    What I had hoped Apple would tackle was an end-to-end system that includes the app for ride hailing and scheduling, adding your personally-owned autonomous vehicle to the taxi fleet, dispatch of the combined fleet, and really good route optimization. 

    Rental companies like Hertz could schedule some of their inventory in and out of the fleet, as could dedicated taxi services, and individual vehicle owners.  The requirement would be that the vehicle have CarPlay; a future version that would collect information from each car, including estimated remaining range, GPS coordinates, and scheduled time left in service for that day.  With this information Apple could figure out which car to dispatch, ensuring the car has sufficient remaining range and scheduled service time to complete the ride and still be able to get to a charging station or depot, if needed. 

    Apple could become a master global dispatch service, interfacing between vehicle owners and customers.  The service could support both human-driven vehicles and autonomous vehicles, as long as the vehicle included an appropriate version of CarPlay.  This would alleviate Apple from liability as either the human driver or the car’s own autonomous system would be responsible for the actual driving.  Apple would only be sending it destination instructions and details about the passengers who hailed the ride, akin to “go to pier 39 to pick up Jane Doe, to drive her to the Presidio.”  Apple could take a small cut of each ride, never having build or bought a single vehicle and never having developed autonomous driving technology.  
    First, I can see not owning a car, but having access to a fleet of autonomous taxis that will come get you and take you where you want to go. I can see owning your own autonomous vehicle.

    I can't see that many people sending their personal self-driving car out into a fleet for public use. While using your own car as an Uber/Lyft driver is already a dubious choice, at least in that case you probably will know who vomited in your back seat. Subbing out your autonomous vehicle to a taxi fleet might defray the cost of buying it, but it's a certainty you would come to regret the choice, either because you can't get it back when you really need it, or because it smells like sick, even though you've paid a premium to get it cleaned.

    Second, there is not a case where Apple has created a service for use primarily on non-Apple devices. Here, you've imagined an Apple-owned and managed global taxi dispatching service for use in a vast network of independently owned cars, both driven by humans and self-driven, with a tenuous connection to Apple in the form of requiring CarPlay capable devices in the dashboard. There is no precedent for Apple creating such a business, and little to recommend that they ever would. 

    Apple created CarPlay as an enhancement of the use of iPhones. Cars were already being made with workaround connections for iPhones and other smart phones. First with audio jacks, then with usb connectors to control iPod functions, and then finally Bluetooth for phone connections. CarPlay is just a customized way to display a select driver-adapted portion of iPhone functions and controls on the dashboard, instead of using a clumsy iPhone holder to accomplish a workaround. None of this requires the creation of a sophisticated back-end in the cloud. None of it involves unhappy people blaming Apple because their ride didn't show up or didn't get them to the Airport on time, or blaming Apple because their driver was creepy, or smelly, or a bad driver. Sure, there is precedent for Apple making Apple Music and iTunes apps that will run on non-Apple devices, but these aren't new services designed for use on hardware outside of Apple's control, they're tentacles to pull people into the Apple ecosystem, so their next upgrade results in the purchase of Macs and iPhones. There is simply no reason Apple would ever create its own version of Uber. It's a massive headache and liability that they don't need. 


    muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFellerwilliamlondon
  • Reply 23 of 44
    chutzpahchutzpah Posts: 392member
    AppleZulu said:
    Side note: Isn't publishing someone's email address online called doxxing, which is, you know, not cool?
    Ken Lynch is not an anonymous actor, his name is known and the email address was presumably found online and is publicly available.

    I doubt it’s monitored anyway, even if the AI troll army wanted to spam it.
    edited June 2023 williamlondonradarthekat
  • Reply 25 of 44
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,032member
    chutzpah said:
    AppleZulu said:
    Side note: Isn't publishing someone's email address online called doxxing, which is, you know, not cool?
    Ken Lynch is not an anonymous actor, his name is known and the email address was presumably found online and is publicly available.

    I doubt it’s monitored anyway, even if the AI troll army wanted to spam it.
    Google it, and you'll find other articles like this one, sourcing from the same primary article about this rumor. What you won't find is a website where that address was published with the intent that it be a public email address listing. So yeah, it's doxxing, and your other assumptions are just that: assumptions, to excuse the doxxing. Not cool.
    edited June 2023 williamlondon
  • Reply 26 of 44
    1348513485 Posts: 352member
    Rick601 said:
    Tesla has such a lead in all EV areas, I can’t believe Apple would have much to contribute other than improving CarPlay. 
    Tesla doesn't have any technological advantages. Their advantage was being first-to-market with a complete ecosystem for EVs. They didn't just make vehicles, they also made home chargers and built a network of city charging stations. So companies like Ford and GM don't really have any issues with making vehicles that are as good as Tesla but they lack the other parts of the ecosystem. 

    Tesla's self-driving system isn't anything special. It's only meant to be used on highways and pretty much every other EV maker has the same type of technology where you can go hands-free on the highway. 
    Agreed. While Tesla created a charging system conformation, the NACS agreement for North American Charging System has adopted Tesla's design and been signed on to by Volvo, GM, Ford, and Rivian so far in the last few weeks. It will become--or has been already become--the standard. So no "advantage" here for Tesla, merely first to market. And standardized porting means other investors can get into the game as well (think oil companies which don't want to miss out if they can't simply crush the BEV market in its infancy. Standardization must happen for the EV industry to take off, just like the gas stations of yore. Range anxiety must be eliminated.

    Home chargers (ie: Tesla Wall) are something else, but easily re-invented by the other manufacturers should there be a financial nut to be gained. But simply wiring a garage for 240 volt fast EV charging can be done by any electrician.

    As far as self-driving, to the extent that it's desirable in the first place (I'm not convinced it will be safe in the next decade or two), it will also have to be standardized as well or it will never be approved by all the parties that will require it: insurance companies, governments at all levels, highway/road design, engineering and infrastructure, etc. It would be an essential safety parameter and ultimately change automotive design and engineering in ways we can't even imagine right now.  
    williamlondon
  • Reply 27 of 44
    Rick601Rick601 Posts: 16member
    So much ignorance about Tesla here. Very unfortunate since it reminds me of Apple shortly after the iPhone release.(Blackberry will rule!!!) Here’s what you do: 1 go to YouTube and watch the latest Tesla FSD videos posted by users. You will see that it is incredibly far along and has shown already to be 10 times safer than a traditional driver.  2. Learn and understand Tesla’s approach using AI and imminent Dojo to improve FSD. (Years ahead). 3. Learn about Megapacks. 4. Learn about Tesla manufacturing and supply chain. (Years ahead and much more efficient). 5 Learn about plans for Tesla Bots. Just getting started.   Great channel called the Tesla Space.  6. Tesla is rock solid financially and making great profits already. ($10B in the past year) Apple has always been my number one investment but Tesla’s future from this point forward is much brighter. Oh yeah, cybertruck with 1.5M pre orders due in Aug-Sep. My great regret is that I too believed the Tesla FUD for many years. 
    radarthekatwilliamlondon
  • Reply 28 of 44
    Rick601 said:
    So much ignorance about Tesla here. Very unfortunate since it reminds me of Apple shortly after the iPhone release.(Blackberry will rule!!!) Here’s what you do: 1 go to YouTube and watch the latest Tesla FSD videos posted by users. You will see that it is incredibly far along and has shown already to be 10 times safer than a traditional driver. 
    FSD is just a beta program. The non-beta is Autopilot which is highway only and came out two years AFTER General Motors launched SuperCruise. Every EV company has its own version of this type of Level 2 semi-autonomous driving now. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 29 of 44
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,298member
    Rick601 said:
    Tesla has such a lead in all EV areas, I can’t believe Apple would have much to contribute other than improving CarPlay. 

    You're right. Nobody else should make an EV then. Just what everyone said when Ford was the first company manufacture cars on an assembly line. Ugh!
    cornchipwilliamlondon
  • Reply 30 of 44
    TRX702TRX702 Posts: 1member
    FSD is just a beta program. The non-beta is Autopilot which is highway only and came out two years AFTER General Motors launched SuperCruise. Every EV company has its own version of this type of Level 2 semi-autonomous driving now. 
    Autopilot come out 2 years before SuperCruise in 2015. Just because it’s a beta doesn’t change the fact that it’s way ahead of anything else we’ve seen and it’s only getting better. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 31 of 44
    XedXed Posts: 2,622member
    mike1 said:
    Rick601 said:
    Tesla has such a lead in all EV areas, I can’t believe Apple would have much to contribute other than improving CarPlay. 

    You're right. Nobody else should make an EV then. Just what everyone said when Ford was the first company manufacture cars on an assembly line. Ugh!
    What's really funny about his comment is that Tesla is one of the youngest major automobile manufacturers around today and yet he surely doesn't see the irony of a new player coming in with different paradigm being able to gain any ground, and that's without considering how many times Apple has done this already.
    cornchipwilliamlondon
  • Reply 32 of 44
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,855moderator
    radarthekat said: You might change your view of you watched some of Sandy Monroe’s vehicle tear form videos.  Tesla is leaps and bounds ahead in important engineering areas. 
    Such as? You've apparently watched the videos but don't have a synopsis of their "leaps and bounds" advantage?

      
    Battery and cabin temperature management.  The Octavalve designed to maintain temperatures for the battery packs and the passenger cabin is considered to be next level to anything else in the industry.  It's compact, integrates several heating and cooling systems and eliminates both weight and parts, obviating the need for several hoses in addition to pumps and other components.  Hoses are a failure point and every hose adds the weight of the fluid moving through it.

    Front and rear castings.  Tesla has made great leaps in reducing parts and weight with its Giga castings.  The rear section of the Model Y, as one example, reduced 70 parts, all welded/bolted/glued together down to a single molded aluminum part, with mounting points molded in.  This translates to factory space and time savings and a much better fit for body panels and other components.  Other automakers are just now starting to order their own equipment so that they can follow in Tesla's footsteps in simplifying their designs and optimizing factory efficiency.  It'll take them years to get close.  

    Battery management.  Tesla's battery management software is next to none, ensuring that batteries are both charged and utilized to optimize overall battery life by minimizing degradation.  This is accomplished  through battery conditioning (warming) early in each charge cycle and drawdown.  The octavalve mentioned above plays a significant role here.

    Over-the-air updates.  It's recognized by every player in the industry that Tesla is far ahead in OTA software updates, often unlocking new capabilities (more power and longer range) through constant innovations in battery and motor management algorithms.  Tesla also uses software to control far more aspects of their vehicle's functions versus competitors, and this means that Tesla can enhance or correct functionality of everything from the way the windshield wipers function to seatbelt tension, emergency breaking, etc.  

    There are additional aspects where Tesla clearly leads by a long way, such as its charging network hardware which is now being adopted by most, and soon all, other car makers.  The SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers just announced that Tesla's NACS (North American Charging Standard) will be the official charging standard.  I could go on.  
    williamlondon
  • Reply 33 of 44
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,855moderator
    Rick601 said:
    So much ignorance about Tesla here. Very unfortunate since it reminds me of Apple shortly after the iPhone release.(Blackberry will rule!!!) Here’s what you do: 1 go to YouTube and watch the latest Tesla FSD videos posted by users. You will see that it is incredibly far along and has shown already to be 10 times safer than a traditional driver.  2. Learn and understand Tesla’s approach using AI and imminent Dojo to improve FSD. (Years ahead). 3. Learn about Megapacks. 4. Learn about Tesla manufacturing and supply chain. (Years ahead and much more efficient). 5 Learn about plans for Tesla Bots. Just getting started.   Great channel called the Tesla Space.  6. Tesla is rock solid financially and making great profits already. ($10B in the past year) Apple has always been my number one investment but Tesla’s future from this point forward is much brighter. Oh yeah, cybertruck with 1.5M pre orders due in Aug-Sep. My great regret is that I too believed the Tesla FUD for many years. 
    Reading your comment is like looking in a mirror. Here's my investment thesis on Tesla, written up in my blog.  I think you'll agree...

    note: not trying to self-promote. My blog has only a few posts and zero traffic and that's fine with me; it's mostly my way of organizing my thoughts through writing...

    https://carlwithacamera.wordpress.com/2022/07/03/how-i-chose-tesla-implications-for-your-next-investment/


    williamlondon
  • Reply 34 of 44
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,416member
    Can anyone see the entrance to the underground bunker where the captured alien interstellar vehicles are being carefully disassembled and reverse engineered by Apple’s engineers?
    Alex_V
  • Reply 35 of 44
    XedXed Posts: 2,622member
    dewme said:
    Can anyone see the entrance to the underground bunker where the captured alien interstellar vehicles are being carefully disassembled and reverse engineered by Apple’s engineers?
    Remember when Apple got exclusive rights to Liquidmetal for CE?

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/10/08/09/apple_obtains_exclusive_rights_to_custom_super_durable_metal_alloy

    PS: I see that Swatch Group has exclusive rights for watches. I wonder how that play out since the Apple Watch is both CE and a watch. I'm guessing that Swatch would easily win if Apple came out with a Liquidmetal Watch case.
    edited June 2023 williamlondon
  • Reply 36 of 44
    TRX702 said:
    FSD is just a beta program. The non-beta is Autopilot which is highway only and came out two years AFTER General Motors launched SuperCruise. Every EV company has its own version of this type of Level 2 semi-autonomous driving now. 
    Autopilot come out 2 years before SuperCruise in 2015. Just because it’s a beta doesn’t change the fact that it’s way ahead of anything else we’ve seen and it’s only getting better. 
    SuperCruise was announced in 2013.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 37 of 44
    radarthekat said: You might change your view of you watched some of Sandy Monroe’s vehicle tear form videos.  Tesla is leaps and bounds ahead in important engineering areas. 
    Such as? You've apparently watched the videos but don't have a synopsis of their "leaps and bounds" advantage?

      
    Battery and cabin temperature management.  The Octavalve designed to maintain temperatures for the battery packs and the passenger cabin is considered to be next level to anything else in the industry.  It's compact, integrates several heating and cooling systems and eliminates both weight and parts, obviating the need for several hoses in addition to pumps and other components.  Hoses are a failure point and every hose adds the weight of the fluid moving through it.

    Front and rear castings.  Tesla has made great leaps in reducing parts and weight with its Giga castings.  The rear section of the Model Y, as one example, reduced 70 parts, all welded/bolted/glued together down to a single molded aluminum part, with mounting points molded in.  This translates to factory space and time savings and a much better fit for body panels and other components.  Other automakers are just now starting to order their own equipment so that they can follow in Tesla's footsteps in simplifying their designs and optimizing factory efficiency.  It'll take them years to get close.  

    Battery management.  Tesla's battery management software is next to none, ensuring that batteries are both charged and utilized to optimize overall battery life by minimizing degradation.  This is accomplished  through battery conditioning (warming) early in each charge cycle and drawdown.  The octavalve mentioned above plays a significant role here.

    Over-the-air updates.  It's recognized by every player in the industry that Tesla is far ahead in OTA software updates, often unlocking new capabilities (more power and longer range) through constant innovations in battery and motor management algorithms.  Tesla also uses software to control far more aspects of their vehicle's functions versus competitors, and this means that Tesla can enhance or correct functionality of everything from the way the windshield wipers function to seatbelt tension, emergency breaking, etc.  

    There are additional aspects where Tesla clearly leads by a long way, such as its charging network hardware which is now being adopted by most, and soon all, other car makers.  The SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers just announced that Tesla's NACS (North American Charging Standard) will be the official charging standard.  I could go on.  
    Those aren't very good examples. Every EV company has battery conditioning features now and the typical battery warranty for EVs (including Tesla) is something like a minimum of 70% original capacity after 100,000 miles. Giga castings? Those are made possible by a 3rd party company. Anyone can get equipment from companies like Idra if they choose to do so. And despite making the car lighter and manufacturing less expensive those kinds of castings make reliability lower and repairs harder/more expensive. It solves some problems while introducing others.  OTA software updates? That seems like a reach. Tesla has problems with OTAs too...https://www.topspeed.com/real-story-behind-teslas-failed-ota-update/
    roundaboutnowwilliamlondon
  • Reply 38 of 44
    If you zoom in there’s a road named Chrysler Corp Proving.  Another named Chrysler Flat Track Rd and another named Chrysler Oval Track.   Interesting.  


    This facility was originally the Chrysler AZ Proving Grounds, established back in the '60s or so.  Chrysler sold this and bought a facility in Yucca, AZ, which was formerly the Ford AZ proving grounds, back around 2007.
    roundaboutnowradarthekat
  • Reply 39 of 44
    XedXed Posts: 2,622member
    If you zoom in there’s a road named Chrysler Corp Proving.  Another named Chrysler Flat Track Rd and another named Chrysler Oval Track.   Interesting.  


    This facility was originally the Chrysler AZ Proving Grounds, established back in the '60s or so.  Chrysler sold this and bought a facility in Yucca, AZ, which was formerly the Ford AZ proving grounds, back around 2007.
    This location and HP's old HQ is setting the stage for a trend that Apple buys up locations of once great US companies that have seen better days.
    williamlondonradarthekat
  • Reply 40 of 44
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,953member
    Xed said:
    If you zoom in there’s a road named Chrysler Corp Proving.  Another named Chrysler Flat Track Rd and another named Chrysler Oval Track.   Interesting.  


    This facility was originally the Chrysler AZ Proving Grounds, established back in the '60s or so.  Chrysler sold this and bought a facility in Yucca, AZ, which was formerly the Ford AZ proving grounds, back around 2007.
    This location and HP's old HQ is setting the stage for a trend that Apple buys up locations of once great US companies that have seen better days.

    They’ve already been doing it for decades with Apple stores.
    williamlondon
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