And it's a win we wouldn't have gotten if the EU hadn't forced Apple to do it.
How exactly is it a win for consumers? USB-C is a terrible connector for something that gets used multiple times daily. I hope Apple designed the new iPhone with a replaceable USB-C port. Other than charging and CarPlay, how many people actually plug in their phone for anything else?
Most consumers have already invested in lightning so how exactly is this a win for consumers?
I delayed an upgrade to iphone 14 when it became clear some time ago usbc was coming to the 15. My ipad is usbc, my mba is usbc, my mac mini and hp monitor is usbc. Whats not to like?
i did note that a car rental in europe inclded a model with a usbc port only. No usba, so keep those adapters. And any cable, any electronic hardware for that matter are all destined to be ewaste. I have many 110v cords cables plugs that have been in use for decades, but at some point they do become not only unusable, but dangerous. See eg tube and post wiring and worse in houses. What is needed is ecomically vable efficint recycling methods. I also have a drawer of adb cords and dongles.
i rented a car this holiday weekend , and was exposed to wireless carplay. Rather than an iphone 15, maybe i should get that dongle, since carplay is really what i want a wired connection for. But...alas, my iphone Xr is having the usual and expected battery degrade. And replacing just that is $59 but yeesh...rhink of the ewaste it causes...
And it's a win we wouldn't have gotten if the EU hadn't forced Apple to do it.
Apple would have eventually switched anyways. I still don't believe in government agencies making companies have specific features. It stifles innovation in the end as it may prevent Apple from developing and using a newer, better and more advanced technology going forward until the EU or any other government agency approves it and then Apple can't use it exclusively like it might want to do.
Honestly, USB-C is a terrible connector for a mobile phone. Unlike lightning, if you break off the connector you're fucked and need the entire thing replaced because the connector is part of the connection whereas with Lighting if you broke off the connector you only needed a new cable and Lightning is a much more ridged connector for daily usage which could be why Apple stuck with it for so long.
Of course Apple will spin it as a win for customers. Apple is an absolute master at marketing and releasing new products to get people hyped to buy them. They tell you why you need it even if you didn't know you did and they're very convincing when they do it for most people. This is what makes Apple a marketing master.
The problem is, when you have a dominant company, there is no reason for them to innovate anymore. Proof of that is the iPhone 11 onwards, nothing new except just adding cameras to the back. So sometimes a company can benefit from a push from an outside entity (EU) and of course it had to come from the EU not the US, because US politicians are firmly in the pocket of corporations cuz they need campaign contributions k so they will never force something as big as apple to do anything . Have no fear, I am sure apple think of another way to generate revenue after the loss of made for iPhone revenue.
And it's a win we wouldn't have gotten if the EU hadn't forced Apple to do it.
90% of consumers who are upgrading from an earlier iPhone will not feel this way. That’s suddenly a whole sh*t ton of cables and accessories and money invested into the ecosystem over the years, that are all suddenly rendered useless. Having to start over and re-buy these things will not be looked at positively. Most people aren’t video editors who need lightning fast transfer speeds, they just want their things to work.
You mean the same consumers who were upset when their old dock connector cables became useless when apple transitioned to lightning ?
And it's a win we wouldn't have gotten if the EU hadn't forced Apple to do it.
Apple would have eventually switched anyways. I still don't believe in government agencies making companies have specific features. It stifles innovation in the end as it may prevent Apple from developing and using a newer, better and more advanced technology going forward until the EU or any other government agency approves it and then Apple can't use it exclusively like it might want to do.
Honestly, USB-C is a terrible connector for a mobile phone. Unlike lightning, if you break off the connector you're fucked and need the entire thing replaced because the connector is part of the connection whereas with Lighting if you broke off the connector you only needed a new cable and Lightning is a much more ridged connector for daily usage which could be why Apple stuck with it for so long.
Of course Apple will spin it as a win for customers. Apple is an absolute master at marketing and releasing new products to get people hyped to buy them. They tell you why you need it even if you didn't know you did and they're very convincing when they do it for most people. This is what makes Apple a marketing master.
The problem is, when you have a dominant company, there is no reason for them to innovate anymore. Proof of that is the iPhone 11 onwards, nothing new except just adding cameras to the back. So sometimes a company can benefit from a push from an outside entity (EU) and of course it had to come from the EU not the US, because US politicians are firmly in the pocket of corporations cuz they need campaign contributions k so they will never force something as big as apple to do anything . Have no fear, I am sure apple think of another way to generate revenue after the loss of made for iPhone revenue.
So having government entities make companies implement things is innovative? I think it's quite the opposite. I fail to see your reasoning there. Adding USB-C to an iPhone isn't innovative at all and honestly I don't think really benefits anyone tbh even though Apple will most likely try to present it that way. There's only so much you can do with a phone. It's a very mature product thats pushing almost 20yrs old (in 2027).
Apple sells a lot of phones and yes they are dominate but they still have competition so there are plenty of reasons to innovate. The iPhone is not the most popular phone in the world as it stands right now and even if it were, it wouldn't be by a large amount.
And it's a win we wouldn't have gotten if the EU hadn't forced Apple to do it.
90% of consumers who are upgrading from an earlier iPhone will not feel this way. That’s suddenly a whole sh*t ton of cables and accessories and money invested into the ecosystem over the years, that are all suddenly rendered useless. Having to start over and re-buy these things will not be looked at positively. Most people aren’t video editors who need lightning fast transfer speeds, they just want their things to work.
You mean the same consumers who were upset when their old dock connector cables became useless when apple transitioned to lightning ?
Consumers are far more invested in Lightning than the 30-pin dock connector.
Out of (genuine) curiosity, does anyone have a source (link) that estimates how much, let's say in total cubic footage, waste there would be if, for example, every single Lightning cable in the world was thrown away?
This is a serious question. There are many claims of waste. I'm curious if there are any estimates of how many cubic feet of waste it might be.
No source, but you can do the math. A Lightning cable is a 1 meter long cord with about 0.003 meter diameter. That’s 7E-6 m3. Over a year, Apple sells about 200m iPhones for about 1413 m3, or a cube that is 11.2 m per side. Or a cube 40 ft per side.
The claims of reducing e-waste for standardization on USBC obviously didn’t make sense. There is much much bigger waste to deal with.
The best reason to standardize on USBC is to make using rechargeable battery powered devices easy to charge. Over time, you can get a charge anywhere as everyone will use USBC.
Saving e-waste? Nope. All the standardization is doing replacing Lightning cable “e-waste” with USBC cable e-waste. Only way e-waste is saved is if OEMs stop putting cables in the box. When that happens, yes, e-waste will be saved. Not much, but it will be saved. Whether that happens is an interesting question.
The best way to save on e-waste is to force OEMs to take back their devices and have them recycled, be audited, otherwise they can’t sell the device.
And it's a win we wouldn't have gotten if the EU hadn't forced Apple to do it.
Would have been better if they skipped usbc and did MagSafe like they did on the MacBook Pro honestly. Being forced into anything is never a win and now we are saddled with this port until the EU dictates otherwise. All hail the EU though.. 🙄
Yeah, because MagSafe is such a great connector for data transfer and it's so easy to knock over a phone while it's charging on your nightstand.... 🤷
Maybe I used the wrong name? The charge port on my M2 Max MacBook Pro charges much faster than any phone charger currently does and it does not just pop off while using my laptop as a laptop, you would have to pull on it to get it to detach.
Out of (genuine) curiosity, does anyone have a source (link) that estimates how much, let's say in total cubic footage, waste there would be if, for example, every single Lightning cable in the world was thrown away?
This is a serious question. There are many claims of waste. I'm curious if there are any estimates of how many cubic feet of waste it might be.
No source, but you can do the math. A Lightning cable is a 1 meter long cord with about 0.003 meter diameter. That’s 7E-6 m3. Over a year, Apple sells about 200m iPhones for about 1413 m3, or a cube that is 11.2 m per side. Or a cube 40 ft per side.
The claims of reducing e-waste for standardization on USBC obviously didn’t make sense. There is much much bigger waste to deal with.
The best reason to standardize on USBC is to make using rechargeable battery powered devices easy to charge. Over time, you can get a charge anywhere as everyone will use USBC.
Saving e-waste? Nope. All the standardization is doing replacing Lightning cable “e-waste” with USBC cable e-waste. Only way e-waste is saved is if OEMs stop putting cables in the box. When that happens, yes, e-waste will be saved. Not much, but it will be saved. Whether that happens is an interesting question.
The best way to save on e-waste is to force OEMs to take back their devices and have them recycled, be audited, otherwise they can’t sell the device.
The e-waste reduction claims absolutely do make sense.
It's important to remember that the common charger directive is not restricted to phones. It covers an entire swathe of the industry for which no end of propietery chargers currently exist. That will all change. One charger will technically be enough. Of course that is the whole point. To reduce fragmentation.
The common charger directive itself is simply part of a broader initiative with common goals. That's why designing for repair is also being dealt with. Along with longer warranties and longer parts availability and software support etc.
Out of (genuine) curiosity, does anyone have a source (link) that estimates how much, let's say in total cubic footage, waste there would be if, for example, every single Lightning cable in the world was thrown away?
This is a serious question. There are many claims of waste. I'm curious if there are any estimates of how many cubic feet of waste it might be.
No source, but you can do the math. A Lightning cable is a 1 meter long cord with about 0.003 meter diameter. That’s 7E-6 m3. Over a year, Apple sells about 200m iPhones for about 1413 m3, or a cube that is 11.2 m per side. Or a cube 40 ft per side.
The claims of reducing e-waste for standardization on USBC obviously didn’t make sense. There is much much bigger waste to deal with.
The best reason to standardize on USBC is to make using rechargeable battery powered devices easy to charge. Over time, you can get a charge anywhere as everyone will use USBC.
Saving e-waste? Nope. All the standardization is doing replacing Lightning cable “e-waste” with USBC cable e-waste. Only way e-waste is saved is if OEMs stop putting cables in the box. When that happens, yes, e-waste will be saved. Not much, but it will be saved. Whether that happens is an interesting question.
The best way to save on e-waste is to force OEMs to take back their devices and have them recycled, be audited, otherwise they can’t sell the device.
The e-waste reduction claims absolutely do make sense.
It's important to remember that the common charger directive is not restricted to phones. It covers an entire swathe of the industry for which no end of propietery chargers currently exist. That will all change. One charger will technically be enough. Of course that is the whole point. To reduce fragmentation.
The common charger directive itself is simply part of a broader initiative with common goals. That's why designing for repair is also being dealt with. Along with longer warranties and longer parts availability and software support etc.
No single initiative will solve all of our e-waste problems. It will be a never ending battle that will only intensify as e-cars, e-bikes, e-scooters, e-mowers, e-vacuums, surveillance drones, e-dog collars, e-trackers, etc., continue to proliferate worldwide. But yeah, we have to start somewhere. Doing nothing would only put us further behind.
Realistically, I don't see a grand convergence to USB-C for at least 5 years and maybe more. This isn't all about Apple Lightning versus USB-C. There is still a crap-ton of USB-A dependent stuff soiling the planet. Some of this crap with USB-A charging ports is still hitting the market
as brand new products. Most of the hotels I stay at have USB-A charging ports
near the little desk-ish area. Same deal with commercial aircraft,
automobiles, lighting fixtures, etc. They're still releasing USB-A everywhere and it's spreading like cockroaches.
The contractor who built my house in 2019 offered to upgrade all of my wall sockets to ones that contained USB-A charging ports at no extra cost to me. I said no thanks, but not strictly because I knew USB-A was heading for the tar pit, but also because I don't trust any old electrical outlet maker to put in an AC-DC power supply that's comparable to what Apple builds. Designing electrical contacts and connectors that meet electrical code requirements is not exactly the same level of complexity as designing a robust and electrically clean power supply that's not going to fry your iPhone or iPad due to some $0.07 USD cheap-ass component failing.
I have no doubt that Apple fully intended to replace Lightning with something. Was it a novel new connector that would leapfrog USB-C? Maybe. But we'll never know because their ability to innovate in this area has been neutered by shortsighted, tunnel vision bureaucrats who were deeply fearful of Apple doing something proprietary - again. I still prefer the usability of Lightning over USB-C. Lightning is easier to insert when you don't have a clear line of sight. If you miss the hole it's not going to scratch the crap out of device you're trying to plug it into. It still beats the hell out of micro-USB. I've never broken a Lightning plug or cable or been unable to clean the pocket lint out of a Lightning socket. It's actually a very simple mechanical design.
But Lightning has its limitations, the most significant one being that it is exclusive to Apple devices. This all means that Lightning was due for replacement anyway. I have no doubt that USB-C is "good enough" to keep us going for a few more years and hopefully long enough to see all remnants of micro-USB completely disappear. (Hey Logitech this means you too.) By then maybe we'll be emboldened enough to move away from USB-A. Or RS-232 serial ports.
But we are by no means out of the woods when it comes to dongles and adapter cables. Fortunately Apple makes a very good USB-C to Lightning cable and many other vendors make USB-C to USB-A adapters and cables. It's always been a good time to be in the dongle business. This will remain true for several more years, maybe long enough for us to dig out many new landfill pits or convince another economically distressed part of the world accept our new e-waste that we'll be accumulating at epic proportions over the next decade and beyond.
At least we are doing something, even if only slowing the inevitable growth of e-waste a little bit.
Out of (genuine) curiosity, does anyone have a source (link) that estimates how much, let's say in total cubic footage, waste there would be if, for example, every single Lightning cable in the world was thrown away?
This is a serious question. There are many claims of waste. I'm curious if there are any estimates of how many cubic feet of waste it might be.
No source, but you can do the math. A Lightning cable is a 1 meter long cord with about 0.003 meter diameter. That’s 7E-6 m3. Over a year, Apple sells about 200m iPhones for about 1413 m3, or a cube that is 11.2 m per side. Or a cube 40 ft per side.
The claims of reducing e-waste for standardization on USBC obviously didn’t make sense. There is much much bigger waste to deal with.
The best reason to standardize on USBC is to make using rechargeable battery powered devices easy to charge. Over time, you can get a charge anywhere as everyone will use USBC.
Saving e-waste? Nope. All the standardization is doing replacing Lightning cable “e-waste” with USBC cable e-waste. Only way e-waste is saved is if OEMs stop putting cables in the box. When that happens, yes, e-waste will be saved. Not much, but it will be saved. Whether that happens is an interesting question.
The best way to save on e-waste is to force OEMs to take back their devices and have them recycled, be audited, otherwise they can’t sell the device.
The e-waste reduction claims absolutely do make sense.
It's important to remember that the common charger directive is not restricted to phones. It covers an entire swathe of the industry for which no end of propietery chargers currently exist. That will all change. One charger will technically be enough. Of course that is the whole point. To reduce fragmentation.
The common charger directive itself is simply part of a broader initiative with common goals. That's why designing for repair is also being dealt with. Along with longer warranties and longer parts availability and software support etc.
You're talking about charging bricks/blocks. I'm talking about charging cables. What's the point about talking about charging bricks when Apple has been using USBC-PD charging bricks for years now and has stopped putting charging bricks in iPhone bricks in boxes for a couple of years now?
Heck, when Apple said that charging bricks and headphones weren't going to be in iPhone boxes anymore, and that it would reduce e-waste, there were articles like this:
And it's a win we wouldn't have gotten if the EU hadn't forced Apple to do it.
Would have been better if they skipped usbc and did MagSafe like they did on the MacBook Pro honestly. Being forced into anything is never a win and now we are saddled with this port until the EU dictates otherwise. All hail the EU though.. 🙄
Yeah, because MagSafe is such a great connector for data transfer and it's so easy to knock over a phone while it's charging on your nightstand.... 🤷
USB-C is a much worse connector than Lightning. Lighting is a very durable connection and USB-C wears out after a while of daily plugging and unplugging. Happens all the time on USB-C laptops where you need to plug in a USB-C dock or power supply. I see it constantly at work.
I delayed an upgrade to iphone 14 when it became clear some time ago usbc was coming to the 15. My ipad is usbc, my mba is usbc, my mac mini and hp monitor is usbc. Whats not to like?
i did note that a car rental in europe inclded a model with a usbc port only. No usba, so keep those adapters. And any cable, any electronic hardware for that matter are all destined to be ewaste. I have many 110v cords cables plugs that have been in use for decades, but at some point they do become not only unusable, but dangerous. See eg tube and post wiring and worse in houses. What is needed is ecomically vable efficint recycling methods. I also have a drawer of adb cords and dongles.
i rented a car this holiday weekend , and was exposed to wireless carplay. Rather than an iphone 15, maybe i should get that dongle, since carplay is really what i want a wired connection for. But...alas, my iphone Xr is having the usual and expected battery degrade. And replacing just that is $59 but yeesh...rhink of the ewaste it causes...
Batteries are incredibly easy to recycle and it's a very efficient process for the most part. The biggest problem is actually getting the batteries to the recycling centres: EU ReportAU CSIRO
Out of (genuine) curiosity, does anyone have a source (link) that estimates how much, let's say in total cubic footage, waste there would be if, for example, every single Lightning cable in the world was thrown away?
This is a serious question. There are many claims of waste. I'm curious if there are any estimates of how many cubic feet of waste it might be.
No source, but you can do the math. A Lightning cable is a 1 meter long cord with about 0.003 meter diameter. That’s 7E-6 m3. Over a year, Apple sells about 200m iPhones for about 1413 m3, or a cube that is 11.2 m per side. Or a cube 40 ft per side.
The claims of reducing e-waste for standardization on USBC obviously didn’t make sense. There is much much bigger waste to deal with.
The best reason to standardize on USBC is to make using rechargeable battery powered devices easy to charge. Over time, you can get a charge anywhere as everyone will use USBC.
Saving e-waste? Nope. All the standardization is doing replacing Lightning cable “e-waste” with USBC cable e-waste. Only way e-waste is saved is if OEMs stop putting cables in the box. When that happens, yes, e-waste will be saved. Not much, but it will be saved. Whether that happens is an interesting question.
The best way to save on e-waste is to force OEMs to take back their devices and have them recycled, be audited, otherwise they can’t sell the device.
Some more waste statistics for the EU. Interesting reading; the headline is that on average across the EU, Construction & Demolition causes the most waste at 37.5%, then Mining & Quarrying at 23.4%, followed by Waste/Water at 10.8%, Manufacturing at 10.6% and Households at 9.4%. Oh, and Finland generates ~21 tonnes of waste per year per capita and it mostly goes to landfill (how they achieve that I don't know, given the size of the country - maybe they fire it across the border into Russia).
Comments
Or maybe I'm not just as cynical as the rest of the world.
Most consumers have already invested in lightning so how exactly is this a win for consumers?
i did note that a car rental in europe inclded a model with a usbc port only. No usba, so keep those adapters. And any cable, any electronic hardware for that matter are all destined to be ewaste. I have many 110v cords cables plugs that have been in use for decades, but at some point they do become not only unusable, but dangerous. See eg tube and post wiring and worse in houses. What is needed is ecomically vable efficint recycling methods. I also have a drawer of adb cords and dongles.
i rented a car this holiday weekend , and was exposed to wireless carplay. Rather than an iphone 15, maybe i should get that dongle, since carplay is really what i want a wired connection for. But...alas, my iphone Xr is having the usual and expected battery degrade. And replacing just that is $59 but yeesh...rhink of the ewaste it causes...
and of course it had to come from the EU not the US, because US politicians are firmly in the pocket of corporations cuz they need campaign contributions k so they will never force something as big as apple to do anything . Have no fear, I am sure apple think of another way to generate revenue after the loss of made for iPhone revenue.
Apple sells a lot of phones and yes they are dominate but they still have competition so there are plenty of reasons to innovate. The iPhone is not the most popular phone in the world as it stands right now and even if it were, it wouldn't be by a large amount.
The best reason to standardize on USBC is to make using rechargeable battery powered devices easy to charge. Over time, you can get a charge anywhere as everyone will use USBC.
It's important to remember that the common charger directive is not restricted to phones. It covers an entire swathe of the industry for which no end of propietery chargers currently exist. That will all change. One charger will technically be enough. Of course that is the whole point. To reduce fragmentation.
The common charger directive itself is simply part of a broader initiative with common goals. That's why designing for repair is also being dealt with. Along with longer warranties and longer parts availability and software support etc.
thanks EU
Heck, when Apple said that charging bricks and headphones weren't going to be in iPhone boxes anymore, and that it would reduce e-waste, there were articles like this:
https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/16/21519466/apple-iphone-12-chargers-airpods-greenhouse-gas-emissions-e-waste
"Apple ditching chargers saves costs but not the planet"