Macs can now detect water in USB-C ports and spot warranty fraud

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware

To cut down on warranty claims, Apple has added a background feature with macOS Sonoma that runs liquid detection analysis on every USB-C port on a Mac.

USB-C ports (plus left, MagSafe, and right, a headphone jack) on a 14-inch MacBook Pro
USB-C ports (plus left, MagSafe, and right, a headphone jack) on a 14-inch MacBook Pro



Back in 2010, Apple was sued over how it uses moisture indicators on iPhones to determine whether a user's insistence they hadn't dropped the device in water was true or not. The suit claimed the indicators weren't accurate, and Apple lost the case, having to ultimately pay a $53 million settlement.

Quite possibly as a result of that, Apple in 2012 filed a patent application for a system to improve its water sensors. That filing specifically noted that it was being done because customers were frequently receiving replacements for products that were damaged in methods not covered under warranty.

That was because Apple Store staff could be unqualified, or not have the facilities, to check whether or not a device has water damage.

Flash forward to 2016, and Apple has the same idea with iPhones, but also makes it a user feature. Starting in iOS 10, not only could the iPhone determine that liquid had been detected in the Lightning port, it would warn the user.

The idea was that the user could then turn off the iPhone and hopefully do so before irreversible water damage.

Now as spotted by 9to5mac, macOS Sonoma has added some similar background liquid detection analysis that checks for liquid in the USB-C ports. As yet, Apple does not use this as a way to warn users to unplug their possibly soaking wet devices, and actually the company does not say what it's for at all.

But given the company's long-standing efforts -- and the wording of its warranties -- water-damaged devices are presumably a significant issue and this is presumably a way in which engineers can detect it.

However, if this is its purpose, the new "Liquid Detection and Corrosion Mitigation Daemon" element of macOS Sonoma is only one of the methods Apple can use to detect water damage. The chief one is the use of Liquid Contact Indicators (LCI), which change color when exposed to liquids, and are used across the Mac and iPhone.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    How can a case on court about ONE damaged MacBook been blown up to a $53 MILLION settlement. 

    Strange juridical system you have over there. 

    And in the end the end user gets controlled and warranty gets limited. 
  • Reply 2 of 20
    XedXed Posts: 2,574member
    How can a case on court about ONE damaged MacBook been blown up to a $53 MILLION settlement. 

    Strange juridical system you have over there. 

    And in the end the end user gets controlled and warranty gets limited. 
    1) It wasn't about a MacBook, it was about iPods and iPhones.

    2) It's not about a single device, but a class-action lawsuit.
    watto_cobraFileMakerFellermuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 3 of 20
    darkvaderdarkvader Posts: 1,146member
    This is so very Apple.

    Instead of making the ports water resistant, they put far more effort into detecting water so they can void your warranty.
    williamlondonpulseimages
  • Reply 4 of 20
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,875member
    darkvader said:
    This is so very Apple.

    Instead of making the ports water resistant, they put far more effort into detecting water so they can void your warranty.
    Think of it as dash cams for computer products, the public (driver) will always lie in an accident.
    edited November 2023 williamlondonwatto_cobramacxpressFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 5 of 20
    How can a case on court about ONE damaged MacBook been blown up to a $53 MILLION settlement. 

    Strange juridical system you have over there. 

    And in the end the end user gets controlled and warranty gets limited. 
    Probably because Apple thought it was better for them to pay for lawyers and go to court than eat a few hundred dollars to fix the original litigant’s device.
    williamlondonFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 6 of 20
    Apple is weird about water.

    Modern iPhone are advertised to be very water resistant, being able to survive drops in the bath or whatnot.

    So why, when I was going to get a battery replacement on my own dime, did they ask if my phone "ever got wet"?  Whose phone never gets wet? So of course I said no and that was that.
    williamlondonappleinsideruserwatto_cobradarkvaderpulseimages
  • Reply 7 of 20
    I agree Apple can do more to avoid water damage through USB ports, but there are many entry points for moisture especially with all ports, hinges, keyboard, … to make as water resistant as an iPhone that is basically sealed brick, ergo all the complaints about self-repair. 

    Bottom line is costs from manufacturing flaws covered by warranty vs user “error” complicate costs and fault.  Personally, I think while water detection is important for damage avoidance and repair troubleshooting (as well as product improvement data) it would be simpler to increase price warranty to include water damage option. 

    “… With AppleCare+, you get additional service and support for your Mac, including unlimited incidents of accidental damage from handling, each subject to a service fee, plus applicable tax. …” merely add water damage.   

    “… AppleCare+ with Theft and Loss gives you technical support and hardware coverage for your iPhone, including unlimited incidents of accidental damage from handling and up to two incidents of theft or loss coverage every 12 months, each subject to a service fee or deductible. …” again add water damage.  

    It is hard to see this significantly increasing Apple costs and becomes yet another competitive advantage. Note; this coverage is not related to manufacturing or design flaws but reflects providing “insurance-like” protection to customers.  I think this is important distinction especially with excessive regulatory mischief by EU and some States. 
    watto_cobraFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 8 of 20
    So what happens when the detection algorithm is wrong? Does Apple deny the warranty automatically, or do they actually check the device(s) first?
    My 2012 Mac mini occasionally claims it has detected moisture present in my iPhone 12 Pro that has never been damp or wet, when I use a 6-foot-length non-Apple Lightning cable to upload images to the Mac mini from the iPhone.
    Using a 3-foot-length genuine Apple Lightning cable, no such warning ever appears.
    Alex1Nwatto_cobradarkvaderpulseimages
  • Reply 9 of 20
    ktappektappe Posts: 824member
    danox said:
    the public (driver) will always lie in an accident.
    Not always. I had an Apple Genius claim one of the moisture detectors in one of my iPhones was triggered, and said I must have gotten the iPhone wet. I definitely didn't. It's been 7-8 years now so I have no reason or incentive to lie. Those detectors really could be triggered falsely.  My understanding is that having a phone near steam, such as comes from cooking or a hot shower, is all was needed to turn them from white to pink.  I also heard that living somewhere with persistent high humidity could trigger the ones that got the most airflow. I have no way of knowing either of these for sure; just that my phone did not get wet but one (and only one) of mine was triggered, but just having one was enough for me to be accused by the Genius. 
    watto_cobradarkvaderFileMakerFellerpulseimages
  • Reply 10 of 20
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,813member
    darkvader said:
    This is so very Apple.

    Instead of making the ports water resistant, they put far more effort into detecting water so they can void your warranty.
    Because that's really gonna make a difference in the end. This isn't like an iPhone with very few points of potential water entry. How the hell do you expect Apple to seal a Mac totally? Do you ever think before type or are you just always so quick to be on the negative side of everything Apple does? 
    williamlondondewmeroundaboutnow
  • Reply 11 of 20
    It seems like the moisture detection devices provide Apple with a handy way to deny warranty claims for unrelated issues without the need to demonstrate that moisture is linked to the failure. A long time ago, I had an iBook that suffered the GPU failure that generations of Apple laptops were vulnerable to. The problem was clear -- I'd already had several other MacBooks suffer the same issue and get repaired -- but Apple denied service because of evidence of liquid intrusion elsewhere in the enclosure. After cleaning up the case and trying again, they were like, "yup, this is a pretty clearly another GPU failure."

    Same thing with an iPhone X. Face ID stopped working less than a year in and since it wasn't a repairable part, they were going to replace the phone, but then they pointed to one of the moisture sensors being triggered and recanted. Even worse in this case, since the phone was advertised as being IP67 water resistant and phone had never been exposed to conditions Apple said to avoid to prevent liquid damage. So on top of the Face ID failure, the advertised moisture resistance was useless.
    williamlondondarkvaderdewme
  • Reply 12 of 20
    Xed said:
    How can a case on court about ONE damaged MacBook been blown up to a $53 MILLION settlement. 

    Strange juridical system you have over there. 

    And in the end the end user gets controlled and warranty gets limited. 
    1) It wasn't about a MacBook, it was about iPods and iPhones.

    2) It's not about a single device, but a class-action lawsuit.
    When talking about “class-action”, why isn’t it a world-class-action but only a country-class-action?
  • Reply 13 of 20
    XedXed Posts: 2,574member
    Xed said:
    How can a case on court about ONE damaged MacBook been blown up to a $53 MILLION settlement. 

    Strange juridical system you have over there. 

    And in the end the end user gets controlled and warranty gets limited. 
    1) It wasn't about a MacBook, it was about iPods and iPhones.

    2) It's not about a single device, but a class-action lawsuit.
    When talking about “class-action”, why isn’t it a world-class-action but only a country-class-action?
    I'm not a lawyer, but my initial thought is there is no such thing as a legal system that covers the entire world. Even the International Court of Justice (ICJ) is part of the United Nations is still not the entire world. I don't know of any international law that would allow world-wide class action lawsuits as a single filing to the people of Earth.
    edited November 2023 muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondon
  • Reply 14 of 20
    Xed said:
    How can a case on court about ONE damaged MacBook been blown up to a $53 MILLION settlement. 

    Strange juridical system you have over there. 

    And in the end the end user gets controlled and warranty gets limited. 
    1) It wasn't about a MacBook, it was about iPods and iPhones.

    2) It's not about a single device, but a class-action lawsuit.
    When talking about “class-action”, why isn’t it a world-class-action but only a country-class-action?
    Jurisdiction.  There is no consumer law that covers the world.
    muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondon
  • Reply 15 of 20
    macxpress said:
    darkvader said:
    This is so very Apple.

    Instead of making the ports water resistant, they put far more effort into detecting water so they can void your warranty.
    Because that's really gonna make a difference in the end. This isn't like an iPhone with very few points of potential water entry. How the hell do you expect Apple to seal a Mac totally? Do you ever think before type or are you just always so quick to be on the negative side of everything Apple does? 
    Says the person that goes out of their way to snap at someone just because they expressed their opinion. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 16 of 20
    So no more using my $5,000 MBP in the shower? Crud.
    pulseimages
  • Reply 17 of 20
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,813member
    macxpress said:
    darkvader said:
    This is so very Apple.

    Instead of making the ports water resistant, they put far more effort into detecting water so they can void your warranty.
    Because that's really gonna make a difference in the end. This isn't like an iPhone with very few points of potential water entry. How the hell do you expect Apple to seal a Mac totally? Do you ever think before type or are you just always so quick to be on the negative side of everything Apple does? 
    Says the person that goes out of their way to snap at someone just because they expressed their opinion. 
    Because every post is a negative post about Apple. They're not here to contribute anything except negativity towards every single decision Apple makes as if Apple is always out to get customers and screw them over. Well deserved! 
  • Reply 18 of 20
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    darkvader said:
    This is so very Apple.

    Instead of making the ports water resistant, they put far more effort into detecting water so they can void your warranty.
    Because that's really gonna make a difference in the end. This isn't like an iPhone with very few points of potential water entry. How the hell do you expect Apple to seal a Mac totally? Do you ever think before type or are you just always so quick to be on the negative side of everything Apple does? 
    Says the person that goes out of their way to snap at someone just because they expressed their opinion. 
    Because every post is a negative post about Apple. They're not here to contribute anything except negativity towards every single decision Apple makes as if Apple is always out to get customers and screw them over. Well deserved! 
    Lighten up! I didn’t know it was your job to protect Apple’s reputation.
  • Reply 19 of 20
    XedXed Posts: 2,574member
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    darkvader said:
    This is so very Apple.

    Instead of making the ports water resistant, they put far more effort into detecting water so they can void your warranty.
    Because that's really gonna make a difference in the end. This isn't like an iPhone with very few points of potential water entry. How the hell do you expect Apple to seal a Mac totally? Do you ever think before type or are you just always so quick to be on the negative side of everything Apple does? 
    Says the person that goes out of their way to snap at someone just because they expressed their opinion. 
    Because every post is a negative post about Apple. They're not here to contribute anything except negativity towards every single decision Apple makes as if Apple is always out to get customers and screw them over. Well deserved! 
    Lighten up! I didn’t know it was your job to protect Apple’s reputation.
    If all you do is make negative comments about everything then I’d ask you to lighten up. 
    macxpress
  • Reply 20 of 20
    Xed said:
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    darkvader said:
    This is so very Apple.

    Instead of making the ports water resistant, they put far more effort into detecting water so they can void your warranty.
    Because that's really gonna make a difference in the end. This isn't like an iPhone with very few points of potential water entry. How the hell do you expect Apple to seal a Mac totally? Do you ever think before type or are you just always so quick to be on the negative side of everything Apple does? 
    Says the person that goes out of their way to snap at someone just because they expressed their opinion. 
    Because every post is a negative post about Apple. They're not here to contribute anything except negativity towards every single decision Apple makes as if Apple is always out to get customers and screw them over. Well deserved! 
    Lighten up! I didn’t know it was your job to protect Apple’s reputation.
    If all you do is make negative comments about everything then I’d ask you to lighten up. 
    Xed said:
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    darkvader said:
    This is so very Apple.

    Instead of making the ports water resistant, they put far more effort into detecting water so they can void your warranty.
    Because that's really gonna make a difference in the end. This isn't like an iPhone with very few points of potential water entry. How the hell do you expect Apple to seal a Mac totally? Do you ever think before type or are you just always so quick to be on the negative side of everything Apple does? 
    Says the person that goes out of their way to snap at someone just because they expressed their opinion. 
    Because every post is a negative post about Apple. They're not here to contribute anything except negativity towards every single decision Apple makes as if Apple is always out to get customers and screw them over. Well deserved! 
    Lighten up! I didn’t know it was your job to protect Apple’s reputation.
    If all you do is make negative comments about everything then I’d ask you to lighten up. 
    Lol, he’s not talking about me. Try and keep up. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
Sign In or Register to comment.