Apple to pay $25 million settlement over illegally favoring immigrant workers

Posted:
in General Discussion edited November 2023

Apple has agreed to settle claims made by the U.S. Department of Justice that the company had illegally favored hiring immigrant workers over citizens or green card holders.

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Laws surrounding hiring practices and labor discrimination are complex, and Apple claims to have unintentionally not been following a certain standard. The company is known for hiring a diverse workforce, but the latest violation is due to inadequate attempts to hire permanent citizens.

According to a report from Reuters, Apple will pay $25 million to settle claims made by the US DOJ. The claim asserts Apple illegally favored hiring immigrant workers over US citizens and green card holders for certain jobs.

A program called the permanent labor certification, or PERM program, requires companies to prioritize and hire permanent residents. Only after a certification process with the Department of Labor and US Citizenship and Immigration Services is complete, in which a company proves there aren't enough US workers available, can companies like Apple prioritize hiring immigrants.

"We have implemented a robust remediation plan to comply with the requirements of various government agencies as we continue to hire American workers and grow in the U.S.," Apple said.

The DOJ says Apple did not advertise job openings that were eligible for PERM on its website as it had for other positions. Apple also required paper applications by mail for the positions in question.

"These less effective recruitment procedures nearly always resulted in few or no applications to PERM positions from applicants whose permission to work does not expire," the DOJ said about its claim.

It was not disclosed which jobs were affected by the poor recruitment procedures or how Apple benefited from the situation. Apple is required to pay $6.75 million in civil penalties and $18.25 million to an unspecified number of affected workers, plus it will fix its recruiting to align with PERM standards.

Read on AppleInsider

FileMakerFeller
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 24
    XedXed Posts: 2,575member
    What do you mean by "immigrant" v citizen and green card holder. I know many now citizens who are immigrants into the US, and many more that are still "Green Card" holders. 
    sphericwilliamlondon
  • Reply 2 of 24
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,759member
    Ah yes, positive discrimination.
  • Reply 3 of 24
    I fully understand why. Immigrant or sponsored workers, value their job more and are more likely to work harder, be more reliable and less likely to take advantage of their employer. Human nature. 
  • Reply 4 of 24
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,308member
    Xed said:
    What do you mean by "immigrant" v citizen and green card holder. I know many now citizens who are immigrants into the US, and many more that are still "Green Card" holders. 
    In this particular case, it means Apple recruited skilled people who were living in other countries to come to the US to fill certain positions, or people who were recently arrived in the US and still on a temporary visa, who may or may not be skilled workers.

    It is possible that Apple was doing this in order to pay some workers less, but people with talents specific to Apple’s needs would have been paid in line with what citizens/green card candidates would have been paid.

    Apple’s explanation for why this happened may or may not be the full truth, but the company is and has been very keen to diversify its workforce, based on the philosophy that different life experiences bring new ideas to the table, and prevent “groupthink” setting in — like what happens if you only have similar candidates for all the positions in a given area.
    edited November 2023 dewmeFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 5 of 24
    Xed said:
    What do you mean by "immigrant" v citizen and green card holder. I know many now citizens who are immigrants into the US, and many more that are still "Green Card" holders. 
    The article literally distinguishes between the group who are "citizens and green card holders" and everyone else.
    ronnNotSoMuchFileMakerFellergrandact73
  • Reply 6 of 24

    laytech said:
    I fully understand why. Immigrant or sponsored workers, value their job more and are more likely to work harder, be more reliable and less likely to take advantage of their employer. Human nature. 

    No, not "human nature", unfairly, nearly-exclusively beholden to their employer.
    ronn
  • Reply 7 of 24

    chasm said:
    Xed said:
    What do you mean by "immigrant" v citizen and green card holder. I know many now citizens who are immigrants into the US, and many more that are still "Green Card" holders. 

    Apple’s explanation for why this happened may or may not be the full truth, but the company is and has been very keen to diversify its workforce, based on the philosophy that different life experiences bring new ideas to the table, and prevent “groupthink” setting in — like what happens if you only have similar candidates for all the positions in a given area.

    Wow, you should work for Apple.  
    ronnkurai_kage
  • Reply 8 of 24
    chasm said:
    Xed said:
    What do you mean by "immigrant" v citizen and green card holder. I know many now citizens who are immigrants into the US, and many more that are still "Green Card" holders. 
    Apple’s explanation for why this happened may or may not be the full truth, but the company is and has been very keen to diversify its workforce, based on the philosophy that different life experiences bring new ideas to the table, and prevent “groupthink” setting in — like what happens if you only have similar candidates for all the positions in a given area.
    Is that demonstrably true? I mean, aside from anecdotally, is there data to back that up? It may be true in some cases but certainly not all. 

    When it comes to say, battery chemistry, does a diverse workforce actually improve the product? How about CPU design or the engineering behind TouchID or the rendering pipeline for image processing, etc?

    I’m not being snarky, actually curious. 
    9secondkox2elijahg
  • Reply 9 of 24
    chasm said:
    Xed said:
    What do you mean by "immigrant" v citizen and green card holder. I know many now citizens who are immigrants into the US, and many more that are still "Green Card" holders. 
    Apple’s explanation for why this happened may or may not be the full truth, but the company is and has been very keen to diversify its workforce, based on the philosophy that different life experiences bring new ideas to the table, and prevent “groupthink” setting in — like what happens if you only have similar candidates for all the positions in a given area.
    Is that demonstrably true? I mean, aside from anecdotally, is there data to back that up? It may be true in some cases but certainly not all. 

    When it comes to say, battery chemistry, does a diverse workforce actually improve the product? How about CPU design or the engineering behind TouchID or the rendering pipeline for image processing, etc?

    I’m not being snarky, actually curious. 
    I don’t know about the diversity part, but engineering and physical sciences graduate schools try to find the best students wherever they come from because research groups are competing globally with each other and putting a constraint on what geographical location you can recruit from puts you at a disadvantage.
    dewme
  • Reply 10 of 24
    Wesley HilliardWesley Hilliard Posts: 190member, administrator, moderator, editor
    Xed said:
    What do you mean by "immigrant" v citizen and green card holder. I know many now citizens who are immigrants into the US, and many more that are still "Green Card" holders. 
    Immigrant versus permanent resident of the United States. Meaning someone who will eventually return to their home country and is working with a Visa rather than a local person with a home and such.
    Is that demonstrably true?

    I’m not being snarky, actually curious. 
    Yes. There are numerous extensive studies over decades showing that a more diverse group will produce better work than non-diverse groups.
    ronnNotSoMuchmuthuk_vanalingam9secondkox2dewme
  • Reply 11 of 24
    Dang Apple! Get it together!
  • Reply 12 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,214member

    “These less effective recruitment procedures deterred U.S. applicants from applying and nearly always resulted in zero or very few mailed applications that Apple considered for PERM-related job positions, which allowed Apple to fill the positions with temporary visa holders,” according to the settlement agreement between Apple and DOJ."


    Certainly does look intentional. Perhaps it was no more than a simple effort to save money by hiring temp visa holders into psuedo-intern positions rather than permanent residents who would have expected better terms/pay. 

    edited November 2023 ronnctt_zhFileMakerFellergrandact73
  • Reply 13 of 24
    Is that demonstrably true?

    I’m not being snarky, actually curious. 
    Yes. There are numerous extensive studies over decades showing that a more diverse group will produce better work than non-diverse groups.
    It is complex. China has been very successful by promoting a homogeneous workforce and society though state control, enforced ideology and censorship. Japan has also had success by keeping its society homogeneous and conformist. I personally enjoy a diverse work place and I think it has many benefits but it is not the only path to success. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 14 of 24
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,376member
    gatorguy said:

    “These less effective recruitment procedures deterred U.S. applicants from applying and nearly always resulted in zero or very few mailed applications that Apple considered for PERM-related job positions, which allowed Apple to fill the positions with temporary visa holders,” according to the settlement agreement between Apple and DOJ."


    Certainly does look intentional. Perhaps it was no more than a simple effort to save money by hiring temp visa holders into psuedo-intern positions rather than permanent residents who would have expected better terms/pay. 

    I suppose having to fill out a paper application is now considered an onerous impediment to applying for a job, at least according to the DOJ. Geez, that’s a tough hill to climb, filling out a form, but somehow those who actually applied were able to overcome that staggering obstacle.

    The real issue is that Apple didn’t adequately identify which positions were PERM eligible, which left those permanent residents and green card holders who were hoping to leverage their advantage unaware of the job opportunity. I wonder how those who were affected will be identified, much less compensated? Since being hired was never a certainty, do they get compensated for not having an opportunity to apply for the job? Electronically of course. 
    FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 15 of 24
    Build That Wall!

    ...around Mar-a-Lago. Throw away the key.
    Xed
  • Reply 16 of 24
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,053member
    This article only makes sense if one is to use the terminology with regards to immigration status in the US provided by this .......

    https://internationaloffice.berkeley.edu/immigration/nonimmigrantvsimmigrant-status

    So all of those that thinks "immigrant" means citizens of another country that are working here in the US on a temp work visa, are wrong.

    An "immigrant" as defined by the DoJ are those legally living in the US that are not citizens. Non US citizens that marries a US citizen and living in the US, are considered immigrants and can remain in the US as long as they stayed married. They are not considered here on a temporary basis. Green card holders are "immigrants" that have obtain a green card and have permanent resident status. but not yet obtain citizenship. 

    >Apple has agreed to settle claims made by the U.S. Department of Justice that the company had illegally favored hiring immigrant workers over citizens or green card holders.<

    If that statement is correct then Apple is accused of hiring people that are living in the US legally but have not yet obtain a green card over immigrants that have obtain a green card and those that are US citizens. In other words, over people that are living in the US permanently. Once again, nothing to do with hiring non citizens on a temp visa basis.


    >Laws surrounding hiring practices and labor discrimination are complex, and Apple claims to have unintentionally not been following a certain standard. The company is known for hiring a diverse workforce, but the latest violation is due to inadequate attempts to hire permanent citizens.<

    That probably should read .... permanent residents. US citizenship is permanent, no matter if born here or naturalized. Green card holders are not citizens. They are considered immigrants with permanent resident status, who has not yet obtained US citizenship. And there are Federal and State laws against employers requiring that only US citizens can apply for the job, where the job do not require one to be a US citizen. So long as they are legally living in the US and allowed to work.  

    >A program called the permanent labor certification, or PERM program, requires companies to prioritize and hire permanent residents. Only after a certification process with the Department of Labor and US Citizenship and Immigration Services is complete, in which a company proves there aren't enough US workers available, can companies like Apple prioritize hiring immigrants.<

    If this statement is correct, then all those that thinks it's about Apple hiring non citizens by way of temp visas, are wrong. The statement, if correct, means that the DoJ is requiring Apple to prioritizing hiring applicants that are living in the US on a permanent basis (either by citizenship or a green card) vs those living in the US with just an immigrant status. Nothing about Apple hiring non US citizens under a temp work visa (nonimmigrant status). 


    >"We have implemented a robust remediation plan to comply with the requirements of various government agencies as we continue to hire American workers and grow in the U.S.," Apple said.<

    This is correct as citizens, green card holders and immigrants are considered American workers. Apple in not being accused of hiring nonimmigrants, who are considered non American workers, over immigrants, green card holders and US citizens.

    Edit: Just read up the PERM Program and that statement is wrong. It should read ........ Apple prioritizing hiring foreign workers, not immigrants.


    edited November 2023 FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 17 of 24
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,053member
    gatorguy said:

    “These less effective recruitment procedures deterred U.S. applicants from applying and nearly always resulted in zero or very few mailed applications that Apple considered for PERM-related job positions, which allowed Apple to fill the positions with temporary visa holders,” according to the settlement agreement between Apple and DOJ."


    Certainly does look intentional. Perhaps it was no more than a simple effort to save money by hiring temp visa holders into psuedo-intern positions rather than permanent residents who would have expected better terms/pay. 


    Once again, you seem to have jumped the gun to criticize Apple. Certainly look intentional.  :) But at least it looks like you're not the only one that misinterpret who is considered an "immigrant".


    An "immigrant" as used here by the DoJ is not a person who is in the US on a temp work visa. An "immigrant" is a person living in the US that have not obtain a green card or citizenship, in order to be considered a "permanent resident". The DoJ requires Apple to prioritize hiring US workers that are permanent US residents. Either US citizens or immigrants that have obtained a green card. But Apple seems to have been hiring too many "immigrants" without green cards, not too many nonimmigrants.

    People that are citizens of other countries that are here in the US tempaorary for school or work or vacation are not "immigrants. Immigrants are people that wants to immigrate to the US and live here permanently. That is why we don't refer to a citizen of France that is just visiting relatives and freinds in the US for 3 months ... an immigrant.   

  • Reply 18 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,214member
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:

    “These less effective recruitment procedures deterred U.S. applicants from applying and nearly always resulted in zero or very few mailed applications that Apple considered for PERM-related job positions, which allowed Apple to fill the positions with temporary visa holders,” according to the settlement agreement between Apple and DOJ."


    Certainly does look intentional. Perhaps it was no more than a simple effort to save money by hiring temp visa holders into psuedo-intern positions rather than permanent residents who would have expected better terms/pay. 


    Once again, you seem to have jumped the gun to criticize Apple. Certainly look intentional.  :) But at least it looks like you're not the only one that misinterpret who is considered an "immigrant".


    An "immigrant" as used here by the DoJ is not a person who is in the US on a temp work visa. An "immigrant" is a person living in the US that have not obtain a green card or citizenship, in order to be considered a "permanent resident". The DoJ requires Apple to prioritize hiring US workers that are permanent US residents. Either US citizens or immigrants that have obtained a green card. But Apple seems to have been hiring too many "immigrants" without green cards, not too many nonimmigrants.

    People that are citizens of other countries that are here in the US tempaorary for school or work or vacation are not "immigrants. Immigrants are people that wants to immigrate to the US and live here permanently. That is why we don't refer to a citizen of France that is just visiting relatives and freinds in the US for 3 months ... an immigrant.   

    After the fact you wrote:
    "Edit: Just read up the PERM Program and that statement is wrong. It should read ........ Apple prioritizing hiring foreign workers, not immigrants

    What did your edit mean? I think you were changing your original understanding, but I can't tell since you sounded like you were wandering a bit. 

    Anyway, it looks to me that Apple targeted foreign hires in specific locations, IMHO new graduates from overseas universities, and distributing paper applications that had to be mailed restricted access to the process. Very few had access to the paper forms and sent them in, so Apple could go on to claim not enough citizens applied and hire the non-citizens they wanted. Tricky but effective. That's why I said "intentional" even if Apple might not have clearly understood the hiring method might be illegal. They do now, and have admitted as much. 

    Don't assume my "intentional" comment means I'm saying Apple knew it to be illegal. You would be wrong. I believe Apple intentionally avoided their typical applicants and hiring process and targeted certain potential hires outside of US citizenry. It was not a mistake; it was by design. That it turned out to be illegal is a separate but related issue. 


    edited November 2023 ronnctt_zhFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 19 of 24
    XedXed Posts: 2,575member
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:

    “These less effective recruitment procedures deterred U.S. applicants from applying and nearly always resulted in zero or very few mailed applications that Apple considered for PERM-related job positions, which allowed Apple to fill the positions with temporary visa holders,” according to the settlement agreement between Apple and DOJ."


    Certainly does look intentional. Perhaps it was no more than a simple effort to save money by hiring temp visa holders into psuedo-intern positions rather than permanent residents who would have expected better terms/pay. 


    Once again, you seem to have jumped the gun to criticize Apple. Certainly look intentional.  :) But at least it looks like you're not the only one that misinterpret who is considered an "immigrant".


    An "immigrant" as used here by the DoJ is not a person who is in the US on a temp work visa. An "immigrant" is a person living in the US that have not obtain a green card or citizenship, in order to be considered a "permanent resident". The DoJ requires Apple to prioritize hiring US workers that are permanent US residents. Either US citizens or immigrants that have obtained a green card. But Apple seems to have been hiring too many "immigrants" without green cards, not too many nonimmigrants.

    People that are citizens of other countries that are here in the US tempaorary for school or work or vacation are not "immigrants. Immigrants are people that wants to immigrate to the US and live here permanently. That is why we don't refer to a citizen of France that is just visiting relatives and freinds in the US for 3 months ... an immigrant.   

    After the fact you wrote:
    "Edit: Just read up the PERM Program and that statement is wrong. It should read ........ Apple prioritizing hiring foreign workers, not immigrants

    What did your edit mean? I think you were changing your original understanding, but I can't tell since you sounded like you were wandering a bit. 

    Anyway, it looks to me that Apple targeted foreign hires, probably some new graduates from overseas universities, by distributing paper applications in specific locations that had to be mailed in. That's why I said "intentional" even if Apple might not have clearly understood the hiring method might be illegal. They do now, and have admitted as much. 
    I’ve seen a lot of settlement cases and they usually stipulate that the settlement is not an admission of guilt. Can you show me proof that Apple admitted it?
    edited November 2023
  • Reply 20 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,214member
    Xed said:
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:

    “These less effective recruitment procedures deterred U.S. applicants from applying and nearly always resulted in zero or very few mailed applications that Apple considered for PERM-related job positions, which allowed Apple to fill the positions with temporary visa holders,” according to the settlement agreement between Apple and DOJ."


    Certainly does look intentional. Perhaps it was no more than a simple effort to save money by hiring temp visa holders into psuedo-intern positions rather than permanent residents who would have expected better terms/pay. 


    Once again, you seem to have jumped the gun to criticize Apple. Certainly look intentional.  :) But at least it looks like you're not the only one that misinterpret who is considered an "immigrant".


    An "immigrant" as used here by the DoJ is not a person who is in the US on a temp work visa. An "immigrant" is a person living in the US that have not obtain a green card or citizenship, in order to be considered a "permanent resident". The DoJ requires Apple to prioritize hiring US workers that are permanent US residents. Either US citizens or immigrants that have obtained a green card. But Apple seems to have been hiring too many "immigrants" without green cards, not too many nonimmigrants.

    People that are citizens of other countries that are here in the US tempaorary for school or work or vacation are not "immigrants. Immigrants are people that wants to immigrate to the US and live here permanently. That is why we don't refer to a citizen of France that is just visiting relatives and freinds in the US for 3 months ... an immigrant.   

    After the fact you wrote:
    "Edit: Just read up the PERM Program and that statement is wrong. It should read ........ Apple prioritizing hiring foreign workers, not immigrants

    What did your edit mean? I think you were changing your original understanding, but I can't tell since you sounded like you were wandering a bit. 

    Anyway, it looks to me that Apple targeted foreign hires, probably some new graduates from overseas universities, by distributing paper applications in specific locations that had to be mailed in. That's why I said "intentional" even if Apple might not have clearly understood the hiring method might be illegal. They do now, and have admitted as much. 
    I’ve seen a lot of settlement cases and they usually stipulate that the settlement is not an admission of guilt. Can you show me proof that Apple admitted it?
    "We have implemented a robust remediation plan to comply with the requirements of various government agencies as we continue to hire American workers and grow in the U.S.," Apple said.

    So yeah, Apple now recognizes the process they used is not legal, which is what I said. You were misreading what I wrote. 
    edited November 2023 ronnctt_zh
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