Apple in talks with Rivian, likely over Apple Car revival
Apple is said to be investigating a partnership with a US electric vehicle firm, believed to be Rivian, in a move that could mean reviving the Apple Car.
Rivian R1T
The whole Apple Car project was reportedly scrapped in February 2024, with its team redeployed to AI work. Unusually, the cancellation of a decade-long project was even seen as good news by analysts.
However, according to Digitimes, Apple is even now contemplating a partnership with an EV firm. Beyond a belief that the firm is Rivian, there is no further detail -- and even citing supply chain sources, Digitimes specifically says the news is speculation.
If it's correct, then it's not clear how recent the news is, or whether it actually predates the cancellation. Then the scope of Apple's investigation is not known either.
An Apple Car partnership would seem the most obvious outcome of a deal with Rivian, and it would not be the first time that Apple has at least approached other car firms. None of those previous arrangements with firms such as Hyundai or Kia worked out, however.
Plus it's also possible that Apple and Rivian are actually discussing the car maker finally adopting Apple CarPlay. Rivian currently does not support either CarPlay or Android Auto, and Apple is pursuing getting an extended version of its software into many vehicles.
Digitimes has a good track record for supply chain sources. However, it has a much poorer one for what conclusions about Apple it draws from those sources.
Separately, once Apple had apparently cancelled the Apple Car, analyst Gene Munster said the company should buy Rivian.
Rumor Score: Possible
Read on AppleInsider
Comments
Rivian is 18-24 months from bankruptcy at their current rate of cash burn. If Apple spent $10B on their car and has nothing to show for it, Rivian would just be another hole to throw money down. I want Rivian to succeed. I really do, but the reality is they’re still not gross margin profitable (cost to build more than money brought in when sold).
The question perhaps would then be branding. Would it be 'anonymous' or 'Apple Inside' or something similar. And how far along was it in its efforts.
On the face of it, it looks like a viable option (assuming there is enough of a finished product to offer).
A large company buying a small company brings the small company’s products to a very large customer base, while also providing funding to scale up manufacturing. Apple’s Beats acquisition likely paid back Apple’s $3b investment in a few years just from selling Beats through Apple’s brick & mortar and online stores, as an example.
in any case this news suggests to us that Apple is not quite done thinking about a future of some sort in the EV/transportation market. And that’s a good thing.
If it made sense to buy Beats, I could see it making sense to buy Rivian.
Canoo;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAiJsB5CQUw
I say go for it.
In other words.... the vehicle, like the CPU, is an *input* into the product or service that Apple sells to consumers, and by doing it themselves, Apple lowers the cost (or increases the quality) of that input (and they likely wouldn't entirely "do it themselves" -- they'd likely do the design themselves, own the IP, and contract out the manufacturing).
To dissolve the car team, absorbing some employees and laying off others, take the PR hits for both the layoffs and investment, and have Apple pundits go on about how it actually made sense to forget building a car...
and then to waffle about getting back in the game?
My guess is that if there's anything at all to the report, it's about something other than Apple building a car.
But if they are, then that says a lot about their faith in Apple Vision, services, and iPhones going forward. It would smell like desperation to identify a product as a replacement revenue driver.
Anyways, a Rivian with CarPlay and V2G would be very nice! V2G is a hard req't for me. I'd prefer solar PV surfaces over CarPlay.
This could either be an integration of Apple CarPlay 2.0 adding it beyond Aston Martin and Porsche further downmarket all the way to a full-scale acquisition.
https://www.sec.gov/ixviewer/ix.html?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1874178/000187417824000014/rivn-20231231.htm
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/RIVN/rivian-automotive/net-income
$4-7b loss every year.
It's from Cost of Revenue so it's difficult for them to cut this loss, they lose money on every vehicle they make:
https://electrek.co/2023/10/03/rivian-ceo-very-clear-steps-profitability/
Average price per vehicle is $80k and they lose $32k on each. The loss is dropping, they say they can manage to get break-even by the end of this year but it's a massive risk and a money pit for investors until it can turn around.
The early days of Tesla were the same, they were near bankruptcy around 2018:
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/net-income
It took 2 years to turn profitable. If the same turnaround happened, it could be a worthwhile investment. I suspect Amazon won't sell though, they have plans to get 100,000 vehicles from them for deliveries.
Rivian differs from Tesla in not building "cars" at all, albeit they do build SUV's alongside trucks and vans.
Canoo is interesting in that they are building very basic and very modular vehicles, that will find niche homes. Canoo doesn't appear to have any mass production other than for the "skateboard" platform components, including their "drive by wire" configuration. They currently have some military contracts that they are fulfilling.
'Nuttin to the story. There's no Rivian partnership in the works.